Hurricane Gustav

[Johnny Rockets]

If I was a resident, in my own best interest I'd get the f*ck out.
If I was the feds, I'd realize that it make economic sense to take a page from the Dutch and protect my real estate. It costs a lot less money to engineer the levees then it does to clean up the mess does it not?

Only in America....

J

[black elk speaks]

If I was a resident, in my own best interest I'd get the f*ck out.
If I was the feds, I'd realize that it make economic sense to take a page from the Dutch and protect my real estate. It costs a lot less money to engineer the levees then it does to clean up the mess does it not?

Only in America....

J

I say f*ck the levies and relocate the city. let it go, its not worth it.

[Frigidus]

If I was a resident, in my own best interest I'd get the f*ck out.
If I was the feds, I'd realize that it make economic sense to take a page from the Dutch and protect my real estate. It costs a lot less money to engineer the levees then it does to clean up the mess does it not?

Only in America....

J

I say f*ck the levies and relocate the city. let it go, its not worth it.

Agreed. Levies don't matter when you live below sea level in a hurricane. The thing is, because it's such a shitty spot to put a building housing is cheap there. Naturally, only the poor live there, and they don't really make enough to pack up and leave.

[black elk speaks]

yeah, i guess i can see your point on that, but when does it become less expensive to evacuate those people every time there is a hurricane and rebuild their homes than to simply just relocate the people. honestly, if they wanted to move they could. given the proper motivation, they would move.

[Pedronicus]

I've been watching the evacuation of New Orleans on BBC. Do any white people live there?

[oVo]

nomaddab sed...

I live in Florida....and as for the rest, blah blah blah...because it is obvious you only know the "Blame the Feds" argument. The last time I checked it was not the Federal Government that told people to go to a places that were not official shelters, it was not FEMA that left school buses where they were floddeed out instead of using them to get people out and make sure they were safe so they could be used after the storm, it was not the federal government that reallocated funds for levys and other preperations to social welfare programs. As far as a late response...Military helicopters were pulling people off roof tops the next day, food and water were being delived by boat and helicoter to places like the super dome until they began taking fire from the good citizens of New Orleans. The Navy had ships docked that housed relief workers and were a base of operations. While the peole in the Superdome were tearing the place apart and acting like the animals they are the people of Mississippi and the surrounding parishes were struggling to survive while the world concentrated on thos poor pathetic pieces of shit that could carry tvs through the water but could not carry old ladies to saftey. The bottom line is...No body should have been suprised or unprepared. Peole were told to leave. If they couldnt leave then the Superdome was open as a last resort, They were told if they have to use the Superdome to come with food and blankets and water. They ignored every warning. They chose to be lazy and not do anythng until the water started to come...

Being from Florida, maybe you're old enough to remember Andrew (1992) which followed a similar path to Katrina and privided the headline "Miami Dodges a Bullet!" Unfortunately for the first President George Bush the slow government response to the 250,000 newly homeless Floridians who once lived south of Miami probably cost him a second term in office. The Dade County Director of emergency management was on the national news days later saying "People are dying here, where the hell is the calvary on this one?" before appropriate relief was dispatched to the hardest hit areas.

President Carter created FEMA in 1979 and it was became full of fluff political appointees until Bush's bigtime fuckup in the 90's, then in 1993 President Clinton elevated FEMA to Cabinet level status and reorganized it with a new director and direction... and FEMA had it's shit together when hurricanes Bertha, Fran and Bonnie struck North Carolina... as well as other "natural disasters" that occurred across the country in the mid to late 90's.

The BLAME THE FEDS argument is very strong after Katrina... because in 2003 the Department of Homeland Security was created and FEMA was stuck inside it's beaurocratic network. Katrina proved to everyone that the Deptartment of Homeland Security was totally screwed up when it came to providing emergency relief anywhere and they had a lot of stupid BS to clear up before they were ever called to action again. In spite of all the preparedness for the incoming hurricane IT TOOK FIVE FUCKING DAYS FOR ANY SUBSTANTIAL AID TO ARRIVE IN NEW ORLEANS regardless of where people sought refuge and that includes the Superdome. The helicopters pulling people off of rooftops was not bringing food or water... they were rescue missions above and beyond FEMA or any other federal response... and it was Pass Christian, Mississippi that took the direct hit and all points east of there that met the Katrina storm surge head on. George W. Bush, Michael Chertoff, Micheal Brown, the Dapartment of Homeland Security, FEMA and a huge number of untrained fuckups were not ready to deal with the aftermath of the biggest natural disater to ever hit the Gulf Coast. So yes... BLAME THE FEDS for a rediculous response to this disaster and hope that everyone is better prepared the next time this happens.

btw ...
> The federal government did not allocate funds for the sure up the levees... the "spend millions to save billions" went unheeded.
> helicopters did not deliver food and water in the immediate days after the storm, not to the Superdome or anywhere,
except in minimal ammounts and nothing substantial arrived for 5 days.
> "The Navy had ships docked that housed relief workers and were a base of operations" ?????
The ships were there, but there was no established base of operations .. . or MO to deal with the situation.
Which was just ONE OF THE BIGGEST PROBLEMS... there was no Principal Federal Official, no established chain of command and there was nobody in charge.
> The Governor of Louisiana did not get re-elected after Katrina.

The bottom line? If your best opinions are sourced by unsubstantuated facts, don't publish them.

[Iz Man]

Being from Florida, maybe you're old enough to remember Andrew (1992) which followed a similar path to Katrina and privided the headline "Miami Dodges a Bullet!" Unfortunately for the first President George Bush the slow government response to the 250,000 newly homeless Floridians who once lived south of Miami probably cost him a second term in office. The Dade County Director of emergency management was on the national news days later saying "People are dying here, where the hell is the calvary on this one?" before appropriate relief was dispatched to the hardest hit areas.

President Carter created FEMA in 1979 and it was became full of fluff political appointees until Bush's bigtime fuckup in the 90's, then in 1993 President Clinton elevated FEMA to Cabinet level status and reorganized it with a new director and direction... and FEMA had it's shit together when hurricanes Bertha, Fran and Bonnie struck North Carolina... as well as other "natural disasters" that occurred across the country in the mid to late 90's.

The BLAME THE FEDS argument is very strong after Katrina... because in 2003 the Department of Homeland Security was created and FEMA was stuck inside it's beaurocratic network. Katrina proved to everyone that the Deptartment of Homeland Security was totally screwed up when it came to providing emergency relief anywhere and they had a lot of stupid BS to clear up before they were ever called to action again. In spite of all the preparedness for the incoming hurricane IT TOOK FIVE FUCKING DAYS FOR ANY SUBSTANTIAL AID TO ARRIVE IN NEW ORLEANS regardless of where people sought refuge and that includes the Superdome. The helicopters pulling people off of rooftops was not bringing food or water... they were rescue missions above and beyond FEMA or any other federal response... and it was Pass Christian, Mississippi that took the direct hit and all points east of there that met the Katrina storm surge head on. George W. Bush, Michael Chertoff, Micheal Brown, the Dapartment of Homeland Security, FEMA and a huge number of untrained fuckups were not ready to deal with the aftermath of the biggest natural disater to ever hit the Gulf Coast. So yes... BLAME THE FEDS for a rediculous response to this disaster and hope that everyone is better prepared the next time this happens.

btw ...
> The federal government did not allocate funds for the sure up the levees... the "spend millions to save billions" went unheeded.
> helicopters did not deliver food and water in the immediate days after the storm, not to the Superdome or anywhere,
except in minimal ammounts and nothing substantial arrived for 5 days.
> "The Navy had ships docked that housed relief workers and were a base of operations" ?????
The ships were there, but there was no established base of operations .. . or MO to deal with the situation.
Which was just ONE OF THE BIGGEST PROBLEMS... there was no Principal Federal Official, no established chain of command and there was nobody in charge.
> The Governor of Louisiana did not get re-elected after Katrina.

The bottom line? If your best opinions are sourced by unsubstantuated facts, don't publish them.

Because Democrats only do good & Rep's only screw everything up.......
You forgot to mention the 1000+ buses left in park instead of evacuating people out of N.O. right before Katrina.
That lies in the Mayor's lap, not the Feds....

When will you people learn all government officials are inept?

I was there in Daytona in 1992 for Andrew...... the big difference between Fla & LA residents is Fla people get nailed every year with Hurricanes, yet you don't hear them begging the gov't for help at the sight of the first rain drop.... FIVE hurricanes hit Fla in one season just a few years ago......yet where were all the "aw...look at all the poor victim" stories then?
Why?
Because the LOCAL residents & gov'ts have (for the most part) their shit together & don't rely on the Feds for every nickel & dime...
What happened in N.O. is what happens when people rely on the gov't for too much.....so when disaster strikes, they're left unprepared.....

In the Northeast, we get blizzards, in the midwest they get tornados, on the west coast they get earthquakes. So cry me a river ......you live below sea level on the coast, you'd best be prepared for hurricanes.

[The Weird One]

just curious: Where are you from?

also...you label an entire population of a city like new orleans [I forget the exact figures, but it ain't small] based on the actions of a relatively small group of people being idiots. Mayor Nagen [as well as other governors and parish presidents] were doing ALL THAT THEY FUCKING COULD!
The horrific aftermath of Katrina in southern louisiana was made worse with the utter breakdown of communication [large chunks of the state dropped off of the map entirely. for example Nobody knew what happened to St. Tammeny parish until about a week or so after the fact because there was no line of communication that could get out] In the southernmost tip of the state, local officials rallied with whatever they had, but it wasn't enough. The State and National governments' relief efforts were too slow in coming to save the lives of many who might have survived. This was a terrible occurrence for two states. Don't treat it lightly and say that ANYONE deserved it.

I live in Florida....and as for the rest, blah blah blah...because it is obvious you only know the "Blame the Feds" argument. The last time I checked it was not the Federal Government that told people to go to a places that were not official shelters, it was not FEMA that left school buses where they were floddeed out instead of using them to get people out and make sure they were safe so they could be used after the storm, it was not the federal government that reallocated funds for levys and other preperations to social welfare programs. As far as a late response...Military helicopters were pulling people off roof tops the next day, food and water were being delived by boat and helicoter to places like the super dome until they began taking fire from the good citizens of New Orleans. The Navy had ships docked that housed relief workers and were a base of operations. While the peole in the Superdome were tearing the place apart and acting like the animals they are the people of Mississippi and the surrounding parishes were struggling to survive while the world concentrated on thos poor pathetic pieces of shit that could carry tvs through the water but could not carry old ladies to saftey. The bottom line is...No body should have been suprised or unprepared. Peole were told to leave. If they couldnt leave then the Superdome was open as a last resort, They were told if they have to use the Superdome to come with food and blankets and water. They ignored every warning. They chose to be lazy and not do anythng until the water started to come...

true
they didn't plan ahead. neither did the federal government. you say bush said to get out, so did the mayor and many others.
again true
I was planning on mentioning this bit in my next post. The world concentrated too much on New Orleans, and, if you would read my ENTIRE post and not just what you could use against me, you would notice that I didn't say "only the good people of new orleans* were effected by this storm." I included others, I will admit, though, that I left out Mississippi's gulf coast. But, again, don't generalixe an entire population on a small group. Some people could not leave [due to the lack of preperation on the part of the city and state] because they lacked transportation, had medical needs, or some other reason [sorry, brain fart, can't think of it now]


*If I ever use this phrase, I'm posting from inside an asylum. . .

[The Weird One]

If I was a resident, in my own best interest I'd get the f*ck out.
If I was the feds, I'd realize that it make economic sense to take a page from the Dutch and protect my real estate. It costs a lot less money to engineer the levees then it does to clean up the mess does it not?

Only in America....

J

. . . You'd be amaxed. I'll check the totals for cleanup post-katrina [for the whole gulf coast] and compare. not now, though. supper's ready. possibly not later tonight, though because Gustav has come a knocking.

[oVo]

Because Democrats only do good & Rep's only screw everything up.......
You forgot to mention the 1000+ buses left in park instead of evacuating people out of N.O. right before Katrina.
That lies in the Mayor's lap, not the Feds....

When will you people learn all government officials are inept?

I was there in Daytona in 1992 for Andrew...... the big difference between Fla & LA residents is Fla people get nailed every year with Hurricanes, yet you don't hear them begging the gov't for help at the sight of the first rain drop.... FIVE hurricanes hit Fla in one season just a few years ago......yet where were all the "aw...look at all the poor victim" stories then?
Why?
Because the LOCAL residents & gov'ts have (for the most part) their shit together & don't rely on the Feds for every nickel & dime...
What happened in N.O. is what happens when people rely on the gov't for too much.....so when disaster strikes, they're left unprepared.....

In the Northeast, we get blizzards, in the midwest they get tornados, on the west coast they get earthquakes. So cry me a river ......you live below sea level on the coast, you'd best be prepared for hurricanes.

I'm not inferring that only Democrats can do good... the Department of Homeland Security was not created by a singular party, but it is absurdly flawed when it comes to it's ability to respond to a major catastrophic even... of the magnitude of Katrina. It is the federal emergency response to the aftershocks of Katrina that I am referring to... for all the lead time and preperation it was a total failure. Brownie did not do a great job.

You say you were in Daytona for hurricane Andrew? I was on Wrightsville Beach when the Christmas tsunami occurred... guess we both dodged a bullet eh? and btw... Wrightsville Beach/Wilmington NC has had more than it's share of hurricanes in the past decade... shit happens. When it does people require a lot of help to pick up the pieces and try to return to normal. I can only sumize that you didn't watch television after Andrew passed accross Florida on it's way to Louisiana because it was Floridians who were desperate and begging for help and not the cajun/coonass/lazy po' folks. I don't care where you live... nobody is "ready" to take on a hurricane of any size as any coastline is 'below sea level' when the storm makes landfall and everyone needs help to recover after it passes. I have riden 'em out as well as run for the hills and it's never good thing.

FEMA also responds to blizzards, tornadoes, earthquakes, floods, volcanoes and any other natural catastrophic event... and they functioned better before they were buried under the broad label of the Department of Homeland Security.

[nomaddab]

LOL..ok, on a serious note. Of course I dont want a repeat of Katrina in New Orleans or any where else. My main point is that we are about to get a lesson in why people should not ever rely on the governemt to take care of them. These people are in for a rude awakening, because I am sure they have been told for the past three years that the problem is being fixed and that everything will be ok so come tuck your head back onto the pigs teet and suckle away cause uncle sam will take care of you. Well, I think Gustov is about to see if my cynical outlook of governement and human nature is correct

After the recent posts I wanted to reiterate this...

I will back up everything I said about the relief effort not being as bad as it was made out to be. I have facts and sources but it will take some time to get them all together. If you guys are not interested please say so and I wont waste all of our time.

[The Weird One]

LOL..ok, on a serious note. Of course I dont want a repeat of Katrina in New Orleans or any where else. My main point is that we are about to get a lesson in why people should not ever rely on the governemt to take care of them. These people are in for a rude awakening, because I am sure they have been told for the past three years that the problem is being fixed and that everything will be ok so come tuck your head back onto the pigs teet and suckle away cause uncle sam will take care of you. Well, I think Gustov is about to see if my cynical outlook of governement and human nature is correct

After the recent posts I wanted to reiterate this...

I will back up everything I said about the relief effort not being as bad as it was made out to be. I have facts and sources but it will take some time to get them all together. If you guys are not interested please say so and I wont waste all of our time.

please do. I'm interested in these sources. . .

[nomaddab]

LOL..ok, on a serious note. Of course I dont want a repeat of Katrina in New Orleans or any where else. My main point is that we are about to get a lesson in why people should not ever rely on the governemt to take care of them. These people are in for a rude awakening, because I am sure they have been told for the past three years that the problem is being fixed and that everything will be ok so come tuck your head back onto the pigs teet and suckle away cause uncle sam will take care of you. Well, I think Gustov is about to see if my cynical outlook of governement and human nature is correct

After the recent posts I wanted to reiterate this...

I will back up everything I said about the relief effort not being as bad as it was made out to be. I have facts and sources but it will take some time to get them all together. If you guys are not interested please say so and I wont waste all of our time.

please do. I'm interested in these sources. . .

"President Carter created FEMA in 1979 and it was became full of fluff political appointees until Bush's bigtime fuckup in the 90's"
This made me laugh...cause it was Bush's big f*ck up, but what about the administrations that allowed all of the fluff political appointees? Is Bush really the only one to blame ?

I will get the sources up tonight or tomorrow.

[black elk speaks]

I've been watching the evacuation of New Orleans on BBC. Do any white people live there?

sure, but the footage you have been watching is likely in the poorest areas but all the white people are being evacuated by cruise line ships.

[The Weird One]

I've been watching the evacuation of New Orleans on BBC. Do any white people live there?

sure, but the footage you have been watching is likely in the poorest areas but all the white people are being evacuated by cruise line ships.

new orleans is a predominantly black city. whites are a minority. basic probability you won't see as many caucasians as african americans.

[b.k. barunt]

I just evacuated to my son's house in Austin, and since he has a PC i thought i'd check out the forum here. I see that Gustav has already been here and destroyed all intelligent life on Flame Wars except for Anarkist'sdream and Twodimes. Also it has somehow morphed Khazalid and assprowler into some weird amalgamation. This seems like a very bad episode of the Twilight Zone, and now i'm afraid to go home. Can hurricanes do this type of thing?


Honibaz

[UCAbears]

Poor Louisiana. If this keeps up, we just may see the first abandonement of a major city in modern times.

Well... maybe.


Or maybe I'm just morbid.


Anyways, good luck all you hillbillies.

the proper term would be one of the following: redneck, coonass, or dumbass.
well, mostly the first two...
.

To you, I say f*ck off.

[The1exile]

To you, I say f*ck off.

Please don't flame outside of flame wars.

[Nickbaldwin]

Poor Louisiana. If this keeps up, we just may see the first abandonement of a major city in modern times.

Well... maybe.


Or maybe I'm just morbid.


Anyways, good luck all you hillbillies.

the proper term would be one of the following: redneck, coonass, or dumbass.
well, mostly the first two...
.

To you, I say f*ck off.

Cheap cunt.

[jnd94]

coonass.....LOL!

[clapper011]

UCAbears, and Nickbaldwin, among others, keep the flames in flame wars. If you haven't anything related to the topic then keep out of the discussion thanks!

[jiminski]

hey that's not what you said earlier!

something about Seeing UCA Next Tuesday!?

[Jenos Ridan]

this is a city that is on the Gulf Coast, at 5 feet below sea level. its time to cut the losses and move inland.

can anyone say Nunu Orleans?

Only five feet? Maybe on average, as I heard may areas were as low as twenty or so.

Really, it is not a good place for a city and it was a horrible place back when it kept changing hands between the Spanish and the French.

We should just cut our losses before the next big one (can't say that for San Fran, as earthquakes are almost completely random. Hurricanes, not so much as they hit the same region many times in a year).

[oVo]

Maybe we should all just relocate to a planet that is less hazardous than this one.

[Cypress333]

Ok, we just need to abandon New Orleans-move to shreveport or something, heck we'll even take more of you new orleansians in Houston! Just abandon that epidemic waiting to happen-heck at the rate it's rising, the seas will have flooded new orleans in 50-100 years anyway