Is God to Blame?

[black elk speaks]

So if you have a kid and it grows up to be a mass murderer, you are to blame?
Put the blame where it belongs, on fallen mankind who have strayed away from God. We are to blame.

oh, and one more thing...

YES! if you keep your kid licked up in a cellar, don't communicate with them and let them see the "real" world, let then make bombs and do nothing while they murder their siblings day after day, yes. you as a parent are a complete failure.

[Snorri1234]

So if you have a kid and it grows up to be a mass murderer, you are to blame?
Put the blame where it belongs, on fallen mankind who have strayed away from God. We are to blame.

this is a big problem with christianity.

There was adam and eve. god puts this tree with the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil right in the middle of the garden. "there it is" says god, "but don't eat it." that pesky woman eats the apple and then convinces adam to do the same? there was never any dialog like "now children, if you eat that fruit, you will piss me off so much that i will make you mortal and your descendants will become the soul food of satan, that bastard snake that tricked you into..." awww hell, it just doean't make any sense. from a conscious god, i expect better.

WTF! if anything, it was entrapment. is the knowledge of good and evil not the same thing as having free will? Why have a tree in the first place? why not just "create" people with the knowledge of good and evil if the all knowing god was just going to entrap us with the fruit? i just don't believe it. the bible sure does have an adverse effect of the future of the world though. Sarah Palin, if ever seated in the Oval Office as President is going to start the third world war in the form of a nuclear holocaust. again, WTF?

Word.

[apey]

Well we have to blame somebody.

blame the pope
I do

[Spuzzell]

No offence, but anyone trying to use the Old Testament to support any argument, pro or anti, is a bit of a fool.

Faith is faith.. I feel lucky to be part of a warm and supportive church, and I genuinely don't see why some people aggressively attack my faith just because they don't share it.

I think all religions are laudable. People living their lives according to a moral code..isn't that what we all want? Don't murder, don't steal, don't sleep with someone else's partner.. just what is it about those principles that offend people? Aren't they how you would want someone to behave?

Christianity is a force for good, as is Islam, as is Buddhism, Hinduism etc etc.. of course there are those who claim their evil deeds are justified in defence of their faith, but those people don't represent the faith they lay claim to anymore than the man who mugs you and happens to be black represents the civil rights movement. The man is evil, the faith is not.

EDIT: Oh, and to Black Elk: Sarah Palin is an intellectually third rate and a dangerously deluded Christian. She not only belives fervently in a Christian God, but also believes he is working through her, so any action she takes is divinely blessed.

Why the hell, in a country of 400 million people, would you want to be represented by someone that dumb and that blinkered? Do you really think you don't deserve better?

[DaGip]

No offence, but anyone trying to use the Old Testament to support any argument, pro or anti, is a bit of a fool.

What's wrong with the Old Testament? It's like the GOP of the Holy Books...

Faith is faith.. I feel lucky to be part of a warm and supportive church, and I genuinely don't see why some people aggressively attack my faith just because they don't share it.

I think your faith is great! Just don't push it on people. Even though you are a Scientologist, you should realize that yours is not the only religion and path towards the Almighty.

I think all religions are laudable.

All religions? That is just creepy!

People living their lives according to a moral code..isn't that what we all want? Don't murder, don't steal, don't sleep with someone else's partner.. just what is it about those principles that offend people? Aren't they how you would want someone to behave?

With all those moral codes out there, still murder happens, rape happens, theft happens...but the real irresponsible part about Christianity is that Jesus forgives all your sins because he died for them on the cross. Maybe instead of telling people don't, maybe you should reinforce those commandments with some why's?

Refrain from murder because....(fill in the blank with the why's you shouldn't murder people, does that make sense?)

Christianity is a force for good, as is Islam, as is Buddhism, Hinduism etc etc.. of course there are those who claim their evil deeds are justified in defence of their faith, but those people don't represent the faith they lay claim to anymore than the man who mugs you and happens to be black represents the civil rights movement. The man is evil, the faith is not.

Some people say that if it wasn't for Christianity, we would have went to the moon hundreds of years ago, and we would be far more advanced than what we are today. To single religions as being good or evil is pointless, as they are just philosophies...sometimes the philosophy is good, sometimes it isn't so good, it all depends on the time and the circumstance.

Islam founded the University system as we know it today, and also modern day medicine has much to thank Islam for...all of that came from a certain philosophy. That same philosophy makes it okay to put suicide jackets on and walk into an open market place or a bar and kill and maim hundreds of people.

Philosophy is neither good nor evil. It is all within the perception and context of which it is performed.

I think this is an important difference between Buddhism/Hinduism as compared to Christian/Islam, as these religions do not deal with a strict good or evil philosophy. It tries to understand the why's of suffering and doesn't go about blaming demons, or even evil wicked humans. It instead tries to understand the situation with tolerance, and find the appropriate solution to the event without violence.

[Spuzzell]

No offence, but anyone trying to use the Old Testament to support any argument, pro or anti, is a bit of a fool.

What's wrong with the Old Testament? It's like the GOP of the Holy Books...

Faith is faith.. I feel lucky to be part of a warm and supportive church, and I genuinely don't see why some people aggressively attack my faith just because they don't share it.

I think your faith is great! Just don't push it on people. Even though you are a Scientologist, you should realize that yours is not the only religion and path towards the Almighty.

I think all religions are laudable.

All religions? That is just creepy!

People living their lives according to a moral code..isn't that what we all want? Don't murder, don't steal, don't sleep with someone else's partner.. just what is it about those principles that offend people? Aren't they how you would want someone to behave?

With all those moral codes out there, still murder happens, rape happens, theft happens...but the real irresponsible part about Christianity is that Jesus forgives all your sins because he died for them on the cross. Maybe instead of telling people don't, maybe you should reinforce those commandments with some why's?

Refrain from murder because....(fill in the blank with the why's you shouldn't murder people, does that make sense?)

Christianity is a force for good, as is Islam, as is Buddhism, Hinduism etc etc.. of course there are those who claim their evil deeds are justified in defence of their faith, but those people don't represent the faith they lay claim to anymore than the man who mugs you and happens to be black represents the civil rights movement. The man is evil, the faith is not.

Some people say that if it wasn't for Christianity, we would have went to the moon hundreds of years ago, and we would be far more advanced than what we are today. To single religions as being good or evil is pointless, as they are just philosophies...sometimes the philosophy is good, sometimes it isn't so good, it all depends on the time and the circumstance.

Islam founded the University system as we know it today, and also modern day medicine has much to thank Islam for...all of that came from a certain philosophy. That same philosophy makes it okay to put suicide jackets on and walk into an open market place or a bar and kill and maim hundreds of people.

Philosophy is neither good nor evil. It is all within the perception and context of which it is performed.

I think this is an important difference between Buddhism/Hinduism as compared to Christian/Islam, as these religions do not deal with a strict good or evil philosophy. It tries to understand the why's of suffering and doesn't go about blaming demons, or even evil wicked humans. It instead tries to understand the situation with tolerance, and find the appropriate solution to the event without violence.

You're seriously telling me that you need a reason why not to murder or rape or steal? Ooookay.

It's tough to talk to you, because you think you're far cleverer and funnier than you actually are.

I'm not evangelical, I didn't force anything on anyone. And yeah, every religion is admirable. Faith in a higher plane of existence, whether in this world or elsewhere is admirable, it shows a willingness to admit that there are things that you don't understand. Humility and respect is born from that, and that's something we all need more of.

[hecter]

I'm not evangelical, I didn't force anything on anyone. And yeah, every religion is admirable. Faith in a higher plane of existence, whether in this world or elsewhere is admirable, it shows a willingness to admit that there are things that you don't understand. Humility and respect is born from that, and that's something we all need more of.

I disagree. I'm an atheist and I'll be more than happy to admit there are many things out there that I don't understand and never will understand. But by attributing everything you don't understand to a cosmic boogeyman, you're in effect trying to understand it. "Why don't I get this?" "Because it's God's will."

[Snorri1234]

I'm not evangelical, I didn't force anything on anyone. And yeah, every religion is admirable. Faith in a higher plane of existence, whether in this world or elsewhere is admirable, it shows a willingness to admit that there are things that you don't understand. Humility and respect is born from that, and that's something we all need more of.

I disagree. I'm an atheist and I'll be more than happy to admit there are many things out there that I don't understand and never will understand. But by attributing everything you don't understand to a cosmic boogeyman, you're in effect trying to understand it. "Why don't I get this?" "Because it's God's will."

The biggest being women.


honestly, does anyone understand them?

[black elk speaks]

No offence, but anyone trying to use the Old Testament to support any argument, pro or anti, is a bit of a fool.

Faith is faith.. I feel lucky to be part of a warm and supportive church, and I genuinely don't see why some people aggressively attack my faith just because they don't share it.

I think all religions are laudable. People living their lives according to a moral code..isn't that what we all want? Don't murder, don't steal, don't sleep with someone else's partner.. just what is it about those principles that offend people? Aren't they how you would want someone to behave?

Christianity is a force for good, as is Islam, as is Buddhism, Hinduism etc etc.. of course there are those who claim their evil deeds are justified in defence of their faith, but those people don't represent the faith they lay claim to anymore than the man who mugs you and happens to be black represents the civil rights movement. The man is evil, the faith is not.

EDIT: Oh, and to Black Elk: Sarah Palin is an intellectually third rate and a dangerously deluded Christian. She not only belives fervently in a Christian God, but also believes he is working through her, so any action she takes is divinely blessed.

Why the hell, in a country of 400 million people, would you want to be represented by someone that dumb and that blinkered? Do you really think you don't deserve better?

For those that believe their faith is a set of principals to live their life by, you are welcome to it. Show your love for Jesus as Jesus himself would have done, with kindness and sincerity. The problem is that these days, far too many of the termed Religious Right are muscling into office, and they have the support of a lot of evangelizing Armageddonists with them. The End times are upon us, but its not because god's "will" would have GW invade iraq, setting the stage for Iran to acquire nukes and "wipe Israel off the map." It is because the "Good Book" says so that we do these things.George Orwell wrote 1984 and it was almost spot on. Ray Bradbury wrote about the holographic and interactive "television" device that people substituted their social interactions for. If you kind of get the gist about the power of suggestion and what can be done with a simple idea, you kinda start to see a pattern. Thoughts are things, and once a thought is put into motion for becoming a reality, it can really change the world. We are on a mad race for Armageddon and its "God's" fault, or at least the persona that we as human beings have hung on the entity.

It really is ridiculous after all.

[Iliad]

No.

I blame the suffragettes.

Oh, and whether or not you believe in God, mankind is responsible for its own actions.

The counter argument would be that God created mankind, therefore, God is still yet to blame.

So if you have a kid and it grows up to be a mass murderer, you are to blame?


Put the blame where it belongs, on fallen mankind who have strayed away from God. We are to blame.

Jay if a dog goes bad you blame the owner. And that is a perfect analogy

[jay_a2j]

No.

I blame the suffragettes.

Oh, and whether or not you believe in God, mankind is responsible for its own actions.

The counter argument would be that God created mankind, therefore, God is still yet to blame.

So if you have a kid and it grows up to be a mass murderer, you are to blame?


Put the blame where it belongs, on fallen mankind who have strayed away from God. We are to blame.

Jay if a dog goes bad you blame the owner. And that is a perfect analogy

Perfect eh? So, which "dog" started the Iraq war? Which mutt started destroying the value of the US dollar? Which canine friend caused the mass foreclosures?

Sorry, man is to blame. God had no hand in this mess.

[Iliad]

No.

I blame the suffragettes.

Oh, and whether or not you believe in God, mankind is responsible for its own actions.

The counter argument would be that God created mankind, therefore, God is still yet to blame.

So if you have a kid and it grows up to be a mass murderer, you are to blame?


Put the blame where it belongs, on fallen mankind who have strayed away from God. We are to blame.

Jay if a dog goes bad you blame the owner. And that is a perfect analogy

Perfect eh? So, which "dog" started the Iraq war? Which mutt started destroying the value of the US dollar? Which canine friend caused the mass foreclosures?

Sorry, man is to blame. God had no hand in this mess.

Jay I don't think you fully understand analogies. So let me just cross it off the list of thing you understand and add it to the list of things you don't understand
Things you understand
...


Things you don't understand
Analogies
Everything else

Jay it's an analogy. We replace "God" with "Human" and we replace "Human" with "Dog". Now can you see it? LEt me jsut make it really simple for you
If a Human(God) buys(creates) a dog(man) and then that dog(human) goes bad and bites everyone etc.(sins) then it is not the dogs(human's) fault, it is the Human's(God's) fault because he did not train it properly(did not prove his reality via logical and proveable ways)

Sorry everybody but jay does get to you.

[comic boy]

I could have sworn GW said he was being guided by God
So Jay is saying that if a mad dog starts going crazy then its perfectly acceptable for the owner to simply stand and watch.....nice ethics !

[jay_a2j]

Jay it's an analogy. We replace "God" with "Human" and we replace "Human" with "Dog". Now can you see it? LEt me jsut make it really simple for you
If a Human(God) buys(creates) a dog(man) and then that dog(human) goes bad and bites everyone etc.(sins) then it is not the dogs(human's) fault, it is the Human's(God's) fault because he did not train it properly(did not prove his reality via logical and proveable ways)

Sorry everybody but jay does get to you.

I so want to be present when you tell God, "You can't condemn me for my sin! YOU created me!"



Hope it works out well for ya.

[black elk speaks]

Jay it's an analogy. We replace "God" with "Human" and we replace "Human" with "Dog". Now can you see it? LEt me jsut make it really simple for you
If a Human(God) buys(creates) a dog(man) and then that dog(human) goes bad and bites everyone etc.(sins) then it is not the dogs(human's) fault, it is the Human's(God's) fault because he did not train it properly(did not prove his reality via logical and proveable ways)

Sorry everybody but jay does get to you.

I so want to be present when you tell God, "You can't condemn me for my sin! YOU created me!"



Hope it works out well for ya.

When last I checked, your sin was no less than mine. its all sin in the eyes of god, or so I am told. I can steal a nickles worth of candy, or rape and murder a hundred 6 year old girls, its equivalent, is it not?

and now you are sitting here saying that you would wish to be present to watch a fellow human being condemned to an eternity in the bowels of hell, that you want to watch?

hmm... would you be cheering as well "damn him god?"

still you sin and even as you defend your own god.

you sicken me. Hypocrite!

[hecter]

If God's gonna send me to hell for the sins I've committed, then he's just a douchebag... I mean, really. "You masturbated, now you shall spend eternity in the firey pits of hell!" "Well why did you give teenage boys such a strong libido?" "Uh... BURN IN HELL!!!" Thanks for being so forgiving God...

[Ditocoaf]

How the hell do you blame someone who's existence can't even be verified?

[jay_a2j]

Jay it's an analogy. We replace "God" with "Human" and we replace "Human" with "Dog". Now can you see it? LEt me jsut make it really simple for you
If a Human(God) buys(creates) a dog(man) and then that dog(human) goes bad and bites everyone etc.(sins) then it is not the dogs(human's) fault, it is the Human's(God's) fault because he did not train it properly(did not prove his reality via logical and proveable ways)

Sorry everybody but jay does get to you.

I so want to be present when you tell God, "You can't condemn me for my sin! YOU created me!"



Hope it works out well for ya.

When last I checked, your sin was no less than mine. its all sin in the eyes of god, or so I am told. I can steal a nickles worth of candy, or rape and murder a hundred 6 year old girls, its equivalent, is it not?

and now you are sitting here saying that you would wish to be present to watch a fellow human being condemned to an eternity in the bowels of hell, that you want to watch?

hmm... would you be cheering as well "damn him god?"

still you sin and even as you defend your own god.

you sicken me. Hypocrite!

(shaking head in disbelief that this even needs explaining)


It is likened to a person telling their boss, "You can't fire me! You hired me!" As if the boss is somehow responsible for the employee sleeping on the job!

No, I wouldn't be cheering and no, I wouldn't even actually want to be there.... it was for dramatic effect.


I was demonstrating the absurd by being absurd.... hmmm who does that? Oh yeah, Rush.

[black elk speaks]

(shaking head in disbelief that this even needs explaining)


It is likened to a person telling their boss, "You can't fire me! You hired me!" As if the boss is somehow responsible for the employee sleeping on the job!

No, I wouldn't be cheering and no, I wouldn't even actually want to be there.... it was for dramatic effect.


I was demonstrating the absurd by being absurd.... hmmm who does that? Oh yeah, Rush.

Save it for the reckoning with your god.

[jay_a2j]

(shaking head in disbelief that this even needs explaining)


It is likened to a person telling their boss, "You can't fire me! You hired me!" As if the boss is somehow responsible for the employee sleeping on the job!

No, I wouldn't be cheering and no, I wouldn't even actually want to be there.... it was for dramatic effect.


I was demonstrating the absurd by being absurd.... hmmm who does that? Oh yeah, Rush.

Save it for the reckoning with your god.

ROFL

[mpjh]

There is no god, so we cannot blame her. It is all our fault.

[black elk speaks]

well, at least you can laugh about it.

[DaGip]

If God's gonna send me to hell for the sins I've committed, then he's just a douchebag... I mean, really. "You masturbated, now you shall spend eternity in the firey pits of hell!" "Well why did you give teenage boys such a strong libido?" "Uh... BURN IN HELL!!!" Thanks for being so forgiving God...

Hecter, your soul, mind, heart, and being belong to the AntiLuns! Welcome home! You can keep warm by the campfire. Hell...it's ALL campfire around here!

[Iliad]

Jay it's an analogy. We replace "God" with "Human" and we replace "Human" with "Dog". Now can you see it? LEt me jsut make it really simple for you
If a Human(God) buys(creates) a dog(man) and then that dog(human) goes bad and bites everyone etc.(sins) then it is not the dogs(human's) fault, it is the Human's(God's) fault because he did not train it properly(did not prove his reality via logical and proveable ways)

Sorry everybody but jay does get to you.

I so want to be present when you tell God, "You can't condemn me for my sin! YOU created me!"



Hope it works out well for ya.

Ah jay falling back to the "YOU"LL BE SORRY!!SHIFYELEVEN! MARK MY WORDS!!! JUST WAIT!!"

Jay well done on
a) being wrong about blame
b) completely misinterpreting an analogy
c) completely ignoring the analogy
d) completely ignoring the use of logic or reason
e) falling back on scare tactics
f) being your usual self

[hecter]

If God's gonna send me to hell for the sins I've committed, then he's just a douchebag... I mean, really. "You masturbated, now you shall spend eternity in the firey pits of hell!" "Well why did you give teenage boys such a strong libido?" "Uh... BURN IN HELL!!!" Thanks for being so forgiving God...

Hecter, your soul, mind, heart, and being belong to the AntiLuns! Welcome home! You can keep warm by the campfire. Hell...it's ALL campfire around here!

Guess I'll be pretty warm then