Mods: an appeal

[clapper011]

alright, HC:
as stated in the off-topic forum guidelines:
Despite common perception, these are not personal playgrounds o' spam, if we wanted that, then the forums would have been called “Spam Wars” or “The Mind-Numbing-Playschool-Throwback-Garbage Room” (really, we would have). When posting in these forums, please be sure to note any guideline stickies in that forum and always refer to the “Posting Basics” noted above.
as well the actual "no, no's" :
Bigotry (e.g. racism, religion-bashing, aggressively homophobic language);
Betting or gambling on, through, or because of CC;
Pornography in posts, avatars or hyper links;
Trolling (including multiple postings, spam, abusive content, and specific attempts to cause chaos, disruption or headaches to the community members or staff)
and of course not everyone is clear on what exactly spam is:
Spam comes in many forms. Things such as posting for the sole intention of being annoying (i.e. triple posting, quoting with no additional comment, etc.), posting nothing but smilies, posting completely off the current topic of the thread, and other similar activities are all constituted as spam. Posting for the sole intention of being annoying (i.e. triple posting, quoting just to quote, etc.)
lastly:
Enforcement

The Guidelines wrote:A warning from any mod is the same as a warning from Lackattack himself, asking mommy because daddy said no wont work here. If you chose to disobey a direct request from a mod, expect to be put on a 24 hour freeze from the forum. Further action against the warning will result in longer time-outs, and eventually permanant banning (banding as some would say) from the forum. A mod will always warn you of the consequences if there will be any.

Now, in my opinion, I tend to be more hands off, and try not to be so strict..... but at times you guys tend to push to see how far you can go, so I push back. I am not a lock down nazi! As most of you will agree. So don't push, and I won't push back!
nuff said

[Snorri1234]

Trolling (including multiple postings, spam, abusive content, and specific attempts to cause chaos, disruption or headaches to the community members or staff)[/b]

You don't read Flame Wars much, do you?

Posting for the sole intention of being annoying

This is the main problem right here. You think that we are being purposefully annoying, while were actually trying to be funny and have a good laugh with eachother. We don't want to annoy you, and we do not see why what we do would be annoying to you.

[clapper011]

grrr it is wayyyy too early to have to think! I'm going back to bed. so any further discussions from me on this will have to wait!

[clapper011]

alright, HC:
as stated in the off-topic forum guidelines:

Trolling (including multiple postings, spam, abusive content, and specific attempts to cause chaos, disruption or headaches to the community members or staff)[/color][/b]

we are not talking about flame wars right now!

[The1exile]

I think snorri was perhaps trying to draw a parallel between the near-nonexistent moderation of flame wars and the level of enforcement here, for the same transgressions. Also, there's no need for the eye-rolling.

[Snorri1234]

Indeed. The guidelines there are exactly the same but don't get enforced.

[Dancing Mustard]

we are not talking about flame wars right now!

Quite right, we're talking about the seeming irrationality of a certain quantity of moderator decisions. We're noting that some behaviour which attracts instant locking/banning here is ignored in another sub-forum which has the same governing guidelines. We're noting also that mod-action seems to have straight-jacketed itself into mechanically 'following guidelines' rather than 'making the community a better place for those that use it'.

So no, we're not talking about FW and no eye-rolling or forehead slapping is required. We're making a battery of other points, which while they use FW as an example, are directed entirely at this OT sub-forum that you find yourself reading.

Come on Clapper, we want to work with you here, not just get into some smiley-saturated shouting match or sarcasm carnival. Let's try to have an open mind about this and get a dialogue going eh? We'll just get nowhere if people start taking a stand-offish superior attitude.

[TheProwler]

Are there any better alternatives? You tell me.

I already did.

[Juan_Bottom]

I think Clappers doing an excellent job!!! And I already understood everything that she has said to be the truth!

I want real examples!!!! EXAMPLES OR GTFO!!!!!

[TheProwler]

So if threads and PMs don't apparently merit any sort of response, what next? Carrier pigeon? Smoke signals?

Hmmm, I have a great idea.

Lets wait until a mod comes in here and makes a few statements.

Then lets pick apart a few things he/she says, and ignore the other stuff.

Hey, this is a paragraph that will definitely promote a healthy discussion:

"Come on <mod>, we want to work with you here, not just get into some smiley-saturated shouting match or sarcasm carnival. Let's try to have an open mind about this and get a dialogue going eh? We'll just get nowhere if people start taking a stand-offish superior attitude."

Because people always react well to condescending criticism. Right?

[Neoteny]

In other news, Juan is a bastage.

[Juan_Bottom]

In other news, Juan is a bastage.

What? Why???
I'm awesome....

[DAZMCFC]

In other news, Juan is a bastage.

What? Why???
I'm awesome....

no, no you're not.

[Ditocoaf]

Clapper's post was incredibly helpful, and exactly what we needed. You asked for a real discussion with the community, and that's what we're getting. Posts like this:

Posting for the sole intention of being annoying

This is the main problem right here. You think that we are being purposefully annoying, while were actually trying to be funny and have a good laugh with eachother. We don't want to annoy you, and we do not see why what we do would be annoying to you.

[/quote]are exactly what we needed, too... the converstation was going in a healthy direction. I think that very disconnect (the fact that the mods think we're trying to be annoying, and we haven't (until now) let them know that we really don't want to annoy them) is the very root of the problem.

But then, when clapper made another valid point, as part of a real conversation: that flame wars and TNYR are two separate forums, with separate issues. Maybe FW is poorly moderated too; maybe they actually intend to allow trolling in FW; maybe they've given up on stopping it for now (because trolling's most of what's in FW anymore, and it would take a lot of time to clean up that the mods don't have any more). But for now, we've got them to focus on our issues, here. So anyway, she argued that we should focus on TNYR for now. Instead of accepting that, or presenting a counter-point, we just went back to mod-bashing.

But, the key thing, to me, is: in response to snorri's "...You think that we are being purposefully annoying, while were actually trying to be funny and have a good laugh with eachother. We don't want to annoy you..." post, clapper says that it's too early to think, and that she'll discuss more later. This means that snorri's avove point was interesting to her, but she needs to think before answering. That means we've given her something to think about. That means the conversation can continue productively when she gets back. As long as this thread doesn't degrade into mod-bashing by the time she gets back here.

[clapper011]

yes well...rl had me tired as well...but yes... i gave an answer and got nothing but critism back......fw..well I seem to be the only one doing much these days..which is understandable that most mods are busy with school etc. So I am doing my best without trying to be strict...but when pushed with the certain threads, which some have actually admitted to being spam... and I lock..so then im being to strict when in fact if those type of threads arent started to begin with ..would give more freedom for those "funnier" posts....... so you all want less modding then behave with the spam and I will lay off

[hecter]

yes well...rl had me tired as well...but yes... i gave an answer and got nothing but critism back......fw..well I seem to be the only one doing much these days..which is understandable that most mods are busy with school etc. So I am doing my best without trying to be strict...but when pushed with the certain threads, which some have actually admitted to being spam... and I lock..so then im being to strict when in fact if those type of threads arent started to begin with ..would give more freedom for those "funnier" posts....... so you all want less modding then behave with the spam and I will lay off

I don't really think that's a very good way of operating... I mean, lock the spam, sure, but why can't the funny posts live either way? They aren't spam, they're humour posts.

[clapper011]

as I stated hecter....less spam would give more freedom for the funnier threads!..re read darlin

[Pedronicus]

..well I seem to be the only one doing much these days..which is understandable that most mods are busy with school etc.

What is the average age of the mods on the site clapper? I mean giving some spotty teenager the power to moderate sounds like a recipe for disaster.

[InkL0sed]

..well I seem to be the only one doing much these days..which is understandable that most mods are busy with school etc.

What is the average age of the mods on the site clapper? I mean giving some spotty teenager the power to moderate sounds like a recipe for disaster.

I think clapper is a mother...

[clapper011]

late teens to mid to late 20's for some, myself older....I think I may be the oldest honestly

[hecter]

as I stated hecter....less spam would give more freedom for the funnier threads!..re read darlin

I know, I read that, and I'm saying that it shouldn't HAVE to. Going by your definition of spam...

Spam comes in many forms. Things such as posting for the sole intention of being annoying (i.e. triple posting, quoting with no additional comment, etc.), posting nothing but smilies, posting completely off the current topic of the thread, and other similar activities are all constituted as spam. Posting for the sole intention of being annoying (i.e. triple posting, quoting just to quote, etc.))

Humour isn't intending on being only annoying, posting nothing but smilies isn't funny, ect. So why is it if people spam, then we can't be funny?

Please don't view this as hostile or anything as I have been in the past, I'm genuinely trying to open up a dialogue.

[clapper011]

and school= college and uni...not just high school

[clapper011]

sigh,...sometimes the posts are spam...and to a few it is funny but to the majority it isnt....allot of times I do not do much about the thread unless the posters get carried away or bring it way off topic..or there are some complaints.but doing things like starting a thread that says...mods appeal...then posting just pictures, or a list of names and so on that have not very much to do with the tittle , well that is just spam to be annoying as like what juan did, as well as repeating the same tittle over and over again for numerous threads? just no need for it.

[DaGip]

and school= college and uni...not just high school

sigh,...sometimes the posts are spam...and to a few it is funny but to the majority it isnt....allot of times I do not do much about the thread unless the posters get carried away or bring it way off topic..or there are some complaints.but doing things like starting a thread that says...mods appeal...then posting just pictures, or a list of names and so on that have not very much to do with the tittle , well that is just spam to be annoying as like what juan did, as well as repeating the same tittle over and over again for numerous threads? just no need for it.

Ah yes, the good ol' non-spammy dubl post...

[hecter]

allot of times I do not do much about the thread unless the posters get carried away or bring it way off topic..

I have an issue with this. If posters are getting carried away in a thread (50 "C" threads or "Mods: An appeal" threads are a different matter, however), that means that they're enjoying themselves and why should you ruin their fun? Also, if a thread was originally about Fascism and ends up about the nutritional benefits of banana's, so what? This is the "Off-Topics" forum, after all, and that's the way conversations go. I think that there should be a difference between being off-topic and trying to be off topic. Let me clarify; if a thread is about Fascism and what ever merits it may have and somebody walks in there and starts talking about banana's for no real reason, that would mean that the person is trying to be off topic. However, if the conversation gets there gradually, with overlaps in the conversation that are related (an example would be "Person X is banned" "Person Y was also banned" "Person Y was prominent in the Foundry" "Andy does a great job in the foundry" "Andy likes banana's" "Banana's are healthy") then I don't see a problem with that, because that's the way conversations go. And if people are talking about that, then obviously they want to talk about it. Making a new thread also has a tendency to kill the conversation and really, why should they? Using the coffee shop metaphor, it would be like "You can't talk about banana's in this coffee shop! Go to that one over there!" but you wouldn't really want to talk about banana's then, because you'd be rather pissed off at having your conversation so rudely interrupted and being kicked out and such.