thoughts on Afghanistan

[Backglass]

[
It is time we took care of our OWN people, in our OWN country.

Yeah... this is what I keep saying, but then I get accused of being a wacist impewialist.

The difference is that I believe we should help ALL our citizens, no matter their race or religion. You believe that only your race/religion should exist in your country, and therefor the only ones deserving of help.

[Napoleon Ier]

Negative. I just believe in organic Nationalism, so I don't believe we can promote non-Gallico-Germanic races to citizens in the very much particular case of my country. Religion has nothing to do with it.

And I happen to believe in helping people en laissant faire.

[Backglass]

Religion has nothing to do with it.

So then why do you have such a problem with Muslims?

[Napoleon Ier]

Religion has nothing to do with it.

So then why do you have such a problem with Muslims?

I have a problem with Islam and mass immigration of Muslims resulting in our government pandering to their every need. It should be a simple rule:

Love France, or leave Her.

If you're a muslim who comes in to do an honest day's work and a company here in France wants you for a job they deem you better qualified for than an de souche, by all means, I favor free circulation of capital and labor.

What is outrageous however, is granting them citizenship simply on the basis that they're living on French soil, mostly with no jobs, and then claiming that we need to "look after them" by providing billions of euros to build up the ghettos they live in, "look after them" by persecuting (and in one momentous case, drive to suicide) policemen who defend themselves against them, in the name of so-called anti-racism, to finance the construction of their Mosques, and to ignore those who commit crimes and claim it "barbaric" to deport them when they do break the law.

[Backglass]

I have a problem with Islam and mass immigration of Muslims resulting in our government pandering to their every need. It should be a simple rule: Love France, or leave Her.

And why do you think they don't? Do you believe all these people moved to France because they hate it so much? What constitutes love of country in your mind?

If you're a muslim who comes in to do an honest day's work and a company here in France wants you for a job they deem you better qualified for than an de souche, by all means, I favor free circulation of capital and labor.

Honestly, I don't believe you. The implication here is that 1% do as you state and the other 99% are lazy freeloaders.

What is outrageous however, is granting them citizenship simply on the basis that they're living on French soil,

I do not know French citizenship laws. Are you saying that one must only move to France to become a citizen?

[jbrettlip]

I have a problem with Islam and mass immigration of Muslims resulting in our government pandering to their every need. It should be a simple rule: Love France, or leave Her.

And why do you think they don't? Do you believe all these people moved to France because they hate it so much? What constitutes love of country in your mind?

I don't love McDonald's but if they gave out free food daily, I would be there with my hand out.

[Napoleon Ier]

I have a problem with Islam and mass immigration of Muslims resulting in our government pandering to their every need. It should be a simple rule: Love France, or leave Her.

And why do you think they don't? Do you believe all these people moved to France because they hate it so much? What constitutes love of country in your mind?

I don't love McDonald's but if they gave out free food daily, I would be there with my hand out.

Yeah, and of course, the French State go one better, and even hand it out Halal. You know, just in case...

[Backglass]

I have a problem with Islam and mass immigration of Muslims resulting in our government pandering to their every need. It should be a simple rule: Love France, or leave Her.

And why do you think they don't? Do you believe all these people moved to France because they hate it so much? What constitutes love of country in your mind?

I don't love McDonald's but if they gave out free food daily, I would be there with my hand out.

Yeah, and of course, the French State go one better, and even hand it out Halal. You know, just in case...

Thank you for not answering the question.

[GrimReaper.]

nuke it and be done with it

[mpjh]

No, that would bring more suicide bombers to us than we could ever handle, besides it would be a war crime and immoral.

What you say we try some diplomacy for a change? Outsmart them, can we do that?

[brooksieb]

No, that would bring more suicide bombers to us than we could ever handle, besides it would be a war crime and immoral.

What you say we try some diplomacy for a change? Outsmart them, can we do that?

We can't try that with the taliban, afterall where do you go to make contact with them?, you can't communicate properly because they have no dedicated representative, neither does Al Qaeda, Soviet Russia tried all of this and look where that got them (see burned out Soviet tanks still in Afghanistan for a example) our only choice with these barbarians is to fight them head on, there goal is to get the coalition out of Afghanistan and enforce Islamic fundamentalist laws across the territory of Afghanistan and it's neighbours, they are not like the IRA who only wanted a re-unification of N.Ireland and Republic of Ireland, or the KLA of Kosovo, who wanted a independent Kosovo, they want to ensure they rule Afghanistan with a iron grip, and they are a very different kettle of fish to other terrorists/freedom fighters.

[mpjh]

I am not an expert on the Taliban. I do know that they are human beings with all the social needs and foibles of the rest of us. We seemed to have figured out the Anbar Sunni buttons to push, I can't imagine that we can do any worse in Afghanistan if we apply so gray matter to it.

[Johnny Rockets]

Then READ UP. Mpjh

They spent the better part of a decade twisting education into religious programing with a hatred bend. Driving anyone with any intellectual where withal out of the country, and those who wouldn't leave and tried to inject reason or objection were stoned in public. Woman's rights are non-existent. Education is only religion based and poisonous at best. Levels of poverty like no other, no trade, industry or employment. Forced worship and religious intolerence to ANY other faith, including a moderate muslum view.

Fucking evil.

And on that note, I would have sent 150000 troops into Rawanda to stop that genocide. Or serbia, and to get recent, into Darfur.

A country needs to do what right. And to stand aside and let a nation implode and slaughter its own innocents ( like we have so many times....) is wrong when you have the ability to stop it, or at least curtail it.

J

[mpjh]

Our country needs to keep its hands out of other countries problems. We are not the arbiters of what is "evil" in the world; nor are we the moral police of the world. If individuals in other countries are committing crimes against humanity, we have a world court to deal with that, if the US wasn't too chickenshit to sign on the to court treaty.

We are cowards against evil in the world because we are the greatest perpetrator of evil deeds.

[brooksieb]

I am not an expert on the Taliban. I do know that they are human beings with all the social needs and foibles of the rest of us. We seemed to have figured out the Anbar Sunni buttons to push, I can't imagine that we can do any worse in Afghanistan if we apply so gray matter to it.

There human beings? They literally skin people alive for crying out loud! They done it to the Russians in the 1980's and now they're doing it to us, many soldiers say they would rather use the last bullet on themselves then get caught by the taliban.

[mpjh]

The only action older than demonizing the enemy is prostitution.

[Napoleon Ier]

The only action older than demonizing the enemy is prostitution.

Oh, and where on that list do we put refusing to answer relevant commentary on calumnious and frankly insulting assertions which were made with zero evidence to back them?

[mpjh]

I am not an expert on the Taliban. I do know that they are human beings with all the social needs and foibles of the rest of us. We seemed to have figured out the Anbar Sunni buttons to push, I can't imagine that we can do any worse in Afghanistan if we apply so gray matter to it.

There human beings? They literally skin people alive for crying out loud! They done it to the Russians in the 1980's and now they're doing it to us, many soldiers say they would rather use the last bullet on themselves then get caught by the taliban.

The Taliban have not skinned alive any of our soldiers, this is a myth.

[spurgistan]

The only action older than demonizing the enemy is prostitution.

Oh, and where on that list do we put refusing to answer relevant commentary on calumnious and frankly insulting assertions which were made with zero evidence to back them?

While mpjh might have made a very common mistake and made a somewhat overly sweeping statement, how can you possibly find fault with let alone be insulted by the fact that when your nation and another are at war, you tend to think ill of them regardless of their actual moral value?

[Napoleon Ier]

The only action older than demonizing the enemy is prostitution.

Oh, and where on that list do we put refusing to answer relevant commentary on calumnious and frankly insulting assertions which were made with zero evidence to back them?

While mpjh might have made a very common mistake and made a somewhat overly sweeping statement, how can you possibly find fault with let alone be insulted by the fact that when your nation and another are at war, you tend to think ill of them regardless of their actual moral value?

I was referring to another thread actually, in which he tried to claim Roman Catholicism had a sola fidei position and so was directly responsible for burning 5 million witches, and so was an obvious evil. When asked to provide some kind of justification for this, he started accusing another member of the forum of typically for a Christian presenting no new facts, then started flaming him. When I stepped in to call him on this, and some other garbage he'd spouted earlier on, he stated that people responding to his so-called facts were dragging him "into a pointless round-robin" and hence he would refuse to answer them. Then he reported me for flaming him.

As far as his comment here in this thread goes, I'd say it is reasonable, but it still doesn't say anything about the actual moral value, to use your words, of the Taliban, just that historical precedent suggests it could be distorted.

[brooksieb]

I am not an expert on the Taliban. I do know that they are human beings with all the social needs and foibles of the rest of us. We seemed to have figured out the Anbar Sunni buttons to push, I can't imagine that we can do any worse in Afghanistan if we apply so gray matter to it.

There human beings? They literally skin people alive for crying out loud! They done it to the Russians in the 1980's and now they're doing it to us, many soldiers say they would rather use the last bullet on themselves then get caught by the taliban.

The Taliban have not skinned alive any of our soldiers, this is a myth.

How do you know?! they hide in caves for f*ck sakes!, they could of done things to them and you wouldn't of even known, have you been to Afghanistan? once you're dead you can't tell what had happened to you, that is a fact, if they stone their own women and torture their own men they wouldn't give a rats arse what they'd do to any of their enemies, including the Russian troops that were over there and the coalition troops that are currently there..

[Napoleon Ier]

They almost successfully got a British RM last summer:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/afghanistan/2585674/Taliban-kill-10-French-paratroopers-in-Afghanistan-ambush.html

The fuckers did it successfully to some of our Marine Paras as well... thank God not live on the internet.

At some point in the 2 day battle four the French soldiers ... are believed to have been captured before being killed ... Some of their dead were reported to have been skinned alive after being captured.

This was after the attack on the 8ème RPIMa in August.

I hope we exterminate every last one of the animals to forever prevent the spreading of their putrid seed. I guess we can just take comfort in the fact that these camel-humping submensch are dying by the fuckload thanks to the great work being done out there by our boys.

[mpjh]

None of the so-called reports on soldiers being skinned alive are first hand reports, and none are confirmed by the military. These reports are simply lies.

[Juan_Bottom]

None of the so-called reports on soldiers being skinned alive are first hand reports, and none are confirmed by the military. These reports are simply lies.

Even if it were true it wouldn't make a difference in how I veiw the war. And truth is the first casualty of war.
I just don't see how we can invade a country for profit and then cry when they don't follow the rules of war.
At any rate though, it just doesn't feel truthful.

I was referring to another thread actually, in which he tried to claim Roman Catholicism had a sola fidei position and so was directly responsible for burning 5 million witches, and so was an obvious evil.

That number seems outrageously high.

The only action older than demonizing the enemy is prostitution.

True that.

[Napoleon Ier]

Mpjh sounds outrageously high to be honest.