2009 Obama Stimulus Bill - do you support it or not?

[Fireside Poet]

You can trust Obama, trust me.

Just based on your word and ... what else?

Nevermind ... I feel like I'm asking an idiot to explain why unicorns exist.

[Nobunaga]

... Represntative government is great, but, shouldn't we, as the represented, expect those who represent us to at least know what it is they are voting on?

... They have no clue, haven't even tried to read the thing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvnwOjDjnH4

... Man, the Taiwanese legislature seems rational by comparison, with all thei kung-fu fighting.

... Am I expecting too much?

... At least GOP support in the House today was nil. The Dems have to own this thing in 2010, 2012.

... Complete and utter sidetrack tangeant here... I was listening yesterday to a radio show discussing the public education system in Finland. These kids rank #1 in the world every year on standardized tests.

... I'm wanting to send my kid to Finland now.

... OK, back on topic.

...

[GabonX]

... Represntative government is great, but, shouldn't we, as the represented, expect those who represent us to at least know what it is they are voting on? ...

Better yet, now that we have the internet, why don't we just vote on the issues directly?

[Juan_Bottom]

... Represntative government is great, but, shouldn't we, as the represented, expect those who represent us to at least know what it is they are voting on?

seconded. they always vote without reading.... In fact, I probably read more of the bailout bill than Dick Durbin or Don Manzullo. And I only read about half.

... They have no clue, haven't even tried to read the thing.

That's how the swindle goes down. They get everyone to panick, and then they'll pass anything. But still, the public is panicked and they aren't buying into this thing, so why are our elected officials??? It doesn't make sense why they always vote against the people.


Anyone read this thing yet? Where can I find the latest incarnation? So far I hate everything that I am hearing. According to Obama's administration;
600,000 Americans lose their job every month...
within 6 months they believe they wll have that down to 300,000 Americans losing their jobs a month....
a year from today the economy will be stabilized and we will begin creating new jobs....

And this stimulus will accomplish that.

[GabonX]

... Represntative government is great, but, shouldn't we, as the represented, expect those who represent us to at least know what it is they are voting on?

seconded. they always vote without reading.... In fact, I probably read more of the bailout bill than Dick Durbin or Don Manzullo. And I only read about half.

The President should veto any legislation that is more than 10 pages. 20 max. If the average American cannot look at a law and understand what it says it is bad legislation. If a bill is more than 10 pages it is doing (much) more than one thing and should be split up into multiple bills.

[mpjh]

Yes, support it. We are organizing a "stimulus" party in our neighborhood, combining fun with support for Obama.

Adults only.

[GabonX]

Some times I'm glad that California is going to be submerged in our lifetime.

[InkL0sed]

I don't doubt Republicans haven't read it, considering they never planned on voting for it anyway.

[jbrettlip]

Specter will lose next election. The repubs are going to win a few of those seats back. But NEW repubs, not the same old guys that had a hand in screwing things up.

A few other points:

George W. will be remembered as a president that did pretty well. I think the backpadeling on Obama's part concerning Gitmo and torture, show that there is more than the general public knows about al-qaeda and the threats we have faced over the years. His tax cuts also helped our economy recover from the dotcom bubble and 9/11 attacks. Greenspan kept rates too low, and banks got too aggressive. W had neither to do with either.

Reagan was one of the most successful presidents. He should be on Mt Rushmore.

CLinton had for the first term a repub senate and house. It was Newt Gingrich's Contract with America that reined in spending. THe dotcom bubble filled the treasuries coffers. The problem now is there is no balance of power, which there needs to be.


SO now we have this bill....it is crap. But most of it won't get spent anytime soon. Hell, I wonder how long it will take to print that much cash!!!

[mpjh]

I think that turban is overheating your brain.. Seems to be at the boiling point now, liquid next.

[GabonX]

SO now we have this bill....it is crap. But most of it won't get spent anytime soon. Hell, I wonder how long it will take to print that much cash!!!

Print it? You're so old fashioned.

All they need to do is add a few digits to a computer screen!

[spurgistan]

Judging from the poll results, I feel like this forum must have some sort of silent majority. Weird.

Although, the stimulus doesn't do enough for me as far as doing enough, so maybe there's left-wing opposition at work here. Hmmm.

[Nobunaga]

... Parts are here: (notice, no search functions)

http://readthestimulus.org/

[luns101]

Judging from the poll results, I feel like this forum must have some sort of silent majority. Weird.

Although, the stimulus doesn't do enough for me as far as doing enough, so maybe there's left-wing opposition at work here. Hmmm.

I was thinking perhaps it's not so much the $$ amount involved in the package but yet which projects are getting funded. For example, I think many liberal-minded people here might support the notion of spending our way out of the recession, but perhaps they want things like education funded instead of mob museums. I'm just guessing here. It's the only way I can reconcile the vote with what is usually posted on CC. The only other thing I can think of off-hand is that what Neoteny says a lot...that liberals on CC are just more willing to voice their opinions.

[PLAYER57832]

.... Complete and utter sidetrack tangeant here... I was listening yesterday to a radio show discussing the public education system in Finland. These kids rank #1 in the world every year on standardized tests.

... I'm wanting to send my kid to Finland now.
...

Yet, Finland is strangly socialistic!

Cooincidence ... I think not.

[ was thinking perhaps it's not so much the $$ amount involved in the package but yet which projects are getting funded. For example, I think many liberal-minded people here might support the notion of spending our way out of the recession, but perhaps they want things like education funded instead of mob museums. I'm just guessing here. It's the only way I can reconcile the vote with what is usually posted on CC. The only other thing I can think of off-hand is that what Neoteny says a lot...that liberals on CC are just more willing to voice their opinions.

1. I am not sure this is "liberal" bill ... it is a desperation bill and I don't think anyone is really happy about it.

2. Since when is the CC forum ... maybe if you are very, right wing or conservative. I see it as one more attempt at changing the definition of "middle" to the right.

[GabonX]

A few of the most outspoken liberal posters don't really talk that much anymore. Heavycola and Dancing Mustard have quit as far as I can tell and Snorri isn't as outspoken as he used to be.

[GabonX]

.... Complete and utter sidetrack tangeant here... I was listening yesterday to a radio show discussing the public education system in Finland. These kids rank #1 in the world every year on standardized tests.

... I'm wanting to send my kid to Finland now.
...

Yet, Finland is strangly socialistic!

Cooincidence ... I think not.

Yes, because our public school system in the United States isn't already socialist

They also allow their citizens to own fire arms

[InkL0sed]

Judging from the poll results, I feel like this forum must have some sort of silent majority. Weird.

Although, the stimulus doesn't do enough for me as far as doing enough, so maybe there's left-wing opposition at work here. Hmmm.

I was thinking perhaps it's not so much the $$ amount involved in the package but yet which projects are getting funded. For example, I think many liberal-minded people here might support the notion of spending our way out of the recession, but perhaps they want things like education funded instead of mob museums. I'm just guessing here. It's the only way I can reconcile the vote with what is usually posted on CC. The only other thing I can think of off-hand is that what Neoteny says a lot...that liberals on CC are just more willing to voice their opinions.

There's also the point that they did diminish the bill in trying to appeal to Republicans, and a lot of people think it's much too little. I've heard some say that it's like trying to jump 5 feet forward over a 7 foot ditch.

So basically, the poll may just be worded badly. Liberals may not "support" the bill because they think it isn't enough.

[Napoleon Ier]

.... Complete and utter sidetrack tangeant here... I was listening yesterday to a radio show discussing the public education system in Finland. These kids rank #1 in the world every year on standardized tests.

... I'm wanting to send my kid to Finland now.
...

Yet, Finland is strangly socialistic!

Cooincidence ... I think not.

Yes, because our public school system in the United States isn't already socialist

They also allow their citizens to own fire arms

Yeah you must remember, Player doesn't actually understand what Socialism, Marxism and Communism are.

And also that Finland is higher than the US on the index of economic freedom.

And also that people who use the word "socialistic" should be sentenced for crimes against the english language.

[Juan_Bottom]

Yeah you must remember, Player doesn't actually understand what Socialism, Marxism and Communism are.

What? Player is a smart cookie... one of those people where when she speaks everyone shuts up to listen.

And also that Finland is higher than the US on the index of economic freedom.

I loves all those nordic nations.
Seriously though, there have to be at least 20 countries higher than America on any such list?

So basically, the poll may just be worded badly. Liberals may not "support" the bill because they think it isn't enough.

I think it's a big mess and a complete sellout of America. No, I don't support anything that I've seen or heard at all. And I'm as liberal as they come. I don't believe in controling anyone else's life, to the point where I almost sound like an anarchist.

The only other thing I can think of off-hand is that what Neoteny says a lot...that liberals on CC are just more willing to voice their opinions.

I agree, this is true. Notice how in all the "is there a God, vote here" threads the overwhelming majority votes "yes." Yet the threads themselves are dominated by Atheists. Not saying liberals can't be Christian, but I think you can cypher my point.

... Parts are here: (notice, no search functions)

http://readthestimulus.org/

Thank-You!!!!

[InkL0sed]

And I'm as liberal as they come.

I'd say you're libertarian, but either way that is definitely NOT true.

[Juan_Bottom]

And I'm as liberal as they come.

I'd say you're libertarian, but either way that is definitely NOT true.

Totally off-topic, but a member of the Constitution Party just tried to label me here, so...
I'm not a libertarian... in fact, most libertarians I know are conservative. Though like anybody else I do agree with them on some issues.
Any way, prove me wrong? I don't even know where you're getting that I'm not liberal from?

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/liberal

lib⋅er⋅al   /ˈlɪbərəl, ˈlɪbrəl/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [lib-er-uhl, lib-ruhl] Show IPA Pronunciation

–adjective 1. favorable to progress or reform, as in political or religious affairs.
2. (often initial capital letter) noting or pertaining to a political party advocating measures of progressive political reform.
3. of, pertaining to, based on, or advocating liberalism.
4. favorable to or in accord with concepts of maximum individual freedom possible, esp. as guaranteed by law and secured by governmental protection of civil liberties.
5. favoring or permitting freedom of action, esp. with respect to matters of personal belief or expression: a liberal policy toward dissident artists and writers.
6. of or pertaining to representational forms of government rather than aristocracies and monarchies.
7. free from prejudice or bigotry; tolerant: a liberal attitude toward foreigners.
8. open-minded or tolerant, esp. free of or not bound by traditional or conventional ideas, values, etc.
9. characterized by generosity and willingness to give in large amounts: a liberal donor.
10. given freely or abundantly; generous: a liberal donation.
11. not strict or rigorous; free; not literal: a liberal interpretation of a rule.
12. of, pertaining to, or based on the liberal arts.
13. of, pertaining to, or befitting a freeman.
–noun 14. a person of liberal principles or views, esp. in politics or religion.
15. (often initial capital letter) a member of a liberal party in politics, esp. of the Liberal party in Great Britain.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Origin:
1325–75; ME < L līberālis of freedom, befitting the free, equiv. to līber free + -ālis -al 1

Yup, just checked the definition and I still feel pretty liberal.

[Nobunaga]

.... Complete and utter sidetrack tangeant here... I was listening yesterday to a radio show discussing the public education system in Finland. These kids rank #1 in the world every year on standardized tests.

... I'm wanting to send my kid to Finland now.
...

Yet, Finland is strangly socialistic!

Cooincidence ... I think not.

[ was thinking perhaps it's not so much the $$ amount involved in the package but yet which projects are getting funded. For example, I think many liberal-minded people here might support the notion of spending our way out of the recession, but perhaps they want things like education funded instead of mob museums. I'm just guessing here. It's the only way I can reconcile the vote with what is usually posted on CC. The only other thing I can think of off-hand is that what Neoteny says a lot...that liberals on CC are just more willing to voice their opinions.

1. I am not sure this is "liberal" bill ... it is a desperation bill and I don't think anyone is really happy about it.

2. Since when is the CC forum ... maybe if you are very, right wing or conservative. I see it as one more attempt at changing the definition of "middle" to the right.

... Actually socialism has naught to do with it. According to the report (and very unlike socialist central planning) teachers in Finland are given total free reign in their classes and need not abide by curriculum requirements at all.

... And here I thought they were all just fishermen.

...

[comic boy]

So if the cost of this Bill is going to impoverish the next generation, then why has the far greater cost of invading Iraq not already done the same

[Napoleon Ier]

And I'm as liberal as they come.

I'd say you're libertarian, but either way that is definitely NOT true.

Totally off-topic, but a member of the Constitution Party just tried to label me here, so...
I'm not a libertarian... in fact, most libertarians I know are conservative. Though like anybody else I do agree with them on some issues.
Any way, prove me wrong? I don't even know where you're getting that I'm not liberal from?

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/liberal

lib⋅er⋅al   /ˈlɪbərəl, ˈlɪbrəl/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [lib-er-uhl, lib-ruhl] Show IPA Pronunciation

–adjective 1. favorable to progress or reform, as in political or religious affairs.
2. (often initial capital letter) noting or pertaining to a political party advocating measures of progressive political reform.
3. of, pertaining to, based on, or advocating liberalism.
4. favorable to or in accord with concepts of maximum individual freedom possible, esp. as guaranteed by law and secured by governmental protection of civil liberties.
5. favoring or permitting freedom of action, esp. with respect to matters of personal belief or expression: a liberal policy toward dissident artists and writers.
6. of or pertaining to representational forms of government rather than aristocracies and monarchies.
7. free from prejudice or bigotry; tolerant: a liberal attitude toward foreigners.
8. open-minded or tolerant, esp. free of or not bound by traditional or conventional ideas, values, etc.
9. characterized by generosity and willingness to give in large amounts: a liberal donor.
10. given freely or abundantly; generous: a liberal donation.
11. not strict or rigorous; free; not literal: a liberal interpretation of a rule.
12. of, pertaining to, or based on the liberal arts.
13. of, pertaining to, or befitting a freeman.
–noun 14. a person of liberal principles or views, esp. in politics or religion.
15. (often initial capital letter) a member of a liberal party in politics, esp. of the Liberal party in Great Britain.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Origin:
1325–75; ME < L līberālis of freedom, befitting the free, equiv. to līber free + -ālis -al 1

Yup, just checked the definition and I still feel pretty liberal.

Liberalism is the most misunderstood word in modern politics. If I may quote Josef Schumpeter on the matter:

"As a supreme, if unintended, compliment to the proponents of a system of free enterprise, its enemies appropriate their label."

On the continent, liberalism is associated with hardline capitalism. It's only in America that through historical perversity, social-democratic and liberal ideologies have become conflated.