WWII:Poland [Quenched]

[lt_oddball]

you complained that there wasn't enough comments ?
So where are the answers on these of a couple of days ago..?

It the legend it isnot explained how commanders outside polish borders can be attacked ..

How can there be one victor if every player keeps his commander ?????


And why so strong +3 autodeployment..too much.

And this plane bombarding any place in poland..nay-nay too much emphasis on the airfields.
better use an idea I had before; separate airdomination "fields"; a string of 6 territories at the side or top of the map..each one linearly attcking the next (for dominance position) and each one capable of bombarding a fixed set of ground territories (f.e. marked with "a", the next "b"). The more airdominance fields you have , the more airdominance you have..

Your gameconcept makes it this a grabbing game between nazi and soviet commanders (and 2 polish outside their own territory???).
Please bring it back to something more akind to what it was back then : nazi troops on the left (and some from the north)., polish troops at the border and center..and (only at later stage) soviet troops from the east.

and

ah..so it's the funny eagle in the center that is the crux for attacking otzher commanders (who the hell is that tchec commander in the south??). Not immediately clear in the legend.

Now I see what the gameconept is..hmmm, nay.
It is very hard to race from a commander to the Warschau center..then you'd supposed to have enough resources left to attack a commander's heart position (bulking with troops of course)..IF the first is lucky to succeed to eliminate one other commander, he has almost NO RESOURCES left,and a THIRD commander throws in his troops on warschau and knocks out the first... and so it goes like a chain reaction.
Not nice game play..


Why not this idea:

Three (or four) Nazi commanders starting from Germany.. and four Polish commanders INSIDE Poland.

Soviet commanders/armies are neutral.

Once a Nazi player reaches the east side of the map (a particular territory) that territory (in his colour) gets +2 auto troops (if player controls nazi_A and Soviet_b then +2...so not for the 'polish' players).
Like checkers..you reach the other side of the board and you get a bonus checker.
This simulates the effect that soviet forces would not start to invade before it was clear that the nazis would totally win poland.
The downside is that on this map the nazi and soviet troops have the same colour of player...
but effectively the poles fought againt the nazis and soviets..the soviets didnot fight the nazis.
The soviet troops acted like an accessory to the nazis..really..
So i think that is better for this particular 1939 map.

ONLY Having/or keeping Warzau should mean a relatively immense bonus...the poles keeping it means "motivation/spirit" (= bonustroops in warzau), for the nazi player having warzau means they "win", lifted spirit, time for reorganisation for final mopping up actions (= bonustroops at the starting position..but much less).
Finding the right balance in this bonus for each player is the trick.

Something like that.

[samuelc812]

you complained that there wasn't enough comments?

When did i complain? I simply bumped the thread.

It the legend it is not explained how commanders outside polish borders can be attacked ..

How can there be one victor if every player keeps his commander ?????

If you look carefully it is explained, the Polish Air-Force Symbol in the centre of poland can bombard commanders outside Poland.

And why so strong +3 autodeployment..too much.

That's not that strong, there are hardly any bonuses compared to a normal map, so +3 i think suits the commanders well.

And this plane bombarding any place in poland..nay-nay too much emphasis on the airfields.
better use an idea I had before; separate airdomination "fields"; a string of 6 territories at the side or top of the map..each one linearly attcking the next (for dominance position) and each one capable of bombarding a fixed set of ground territories (f.e. marked with "a", the next "b"). The more airdominance fields you have , the more airdominance you have..

I don't want to make this map any more complicated than it has to be, adding anymore things i am afraid it would make the map to crowded than it already is. I have restricted the planes attacking power, by restricting them to only be able to attack Tanks.

Your gameconcept makes it this a grabbing game between nazi and soviet commanders (and 2 polish outside their own territory???).
Please bring it back to something more akind to what it was back then : nazi troops on the left (and some from the north)., polish troops at the border and center..and (only at later stage) soviet troops from the east.

This map does not depict the very beginning of the Invasion, it is depicting the invasion after it has mostly happened and when Nazi and Soviet forces we're occupying the entirety of Poland. the Polish territories outside Poland, are representative of Polish forces retreating to the South-East once the Soviets began to invade.

ah..so it's the funny eagle in the center that is the crux for attacking otzher commanders (who the hell is that tchec commander in the south??). Not immediately clear in the legend.

The "funny" eagle as you put it, is the symbol of the Polish Air-Force, and it represents the remaining air-force, and the rebellion. The Polish Commander outside of Poland, represents the retreating portion of the Polish Army, they are trying to get back into Poland and retake their country.

Now I see what the gameconept is..hmmm, nay(=no?).
It is very hard to race from a commander to the Warschau center..then you'd supposed to have enough resources left to attack a commander's heart position (bulking with troops of course)..IF the first is lucky to succeed to eliminate one other commander, he has almost NO RESOURCES left,and a THIRD commander throws in his troops on warschau and knocks out the first... and so it goes like a chain reaction.
Not nice game play..

I can say that whoever goes for the centre position on the first turn would have to be out of their mind. We can always increase the neutrals on that position to something like 10 to make it harder to attain in the first or second turns.

Why not this idea:

Three (or four) Nazi commanders starting from Germany.. and four Polish commanders INSIDE Poland.

Soviet commanders/armies are neutral.

The whole point is the invasion of Poland, the aim shouldn't be to get the Soviet commanders, the aim should be to invade poland, and capture the Polish commanders, hence why they are neutral. Then there is also the way for Poland to get rescued by taking the centre eagle and attacking the enemy commanders.

Once a Nazi player reaches the east side of the map (a particular territory) that territory (in his colour) gets +2 auto troops (if player controls nazi_A and Soviet_b then +2...so not for the 'polish' players).
Like checkers..you reach the other side of the board and you get a bonus checker.
This simulates the effect that soviet forces would not start to invade before it was clear that the nazis would totally win poland.
The downside is that on this map the nazi and soviet troops have the same colour of player...
but effectively the poles fought againt the nazis and soviets..the soviets didnot fight the nazis.
The soviet troops acted like an accessory to the nazis..really..
So i think that is better for this particular 1939 map.

Well this isn't really checkers, and again this is the invasion of Poland not the race to the other side of Poland and then the Soviets attack? And the Germans and Soviets actually did fight

Germany captured the Soviet-occupied areas of Poland when it invaded the Soviet Union on 22 June 1941, and lost the territory in 1944 to an advancing Red Army

ONLY Having/or keeping Warzau should mean a relatively immense bonus...the poles keeping it means "motivation/spirit" (= bonustroops in warzau), for the nazi player having warzau means they "win", lifted spirit, time for reorganisation for final mopping up actions (= bonustroops at the starting position..but much less).
Finding the right balance in this bonus for each player is the trick.

I might lower the auto-deploy on the starting positions to +2, as well as the Polish Commanders within Poland, Holding the Polish Air-Force gett's a +5 bonus which is pretty immense.

Thanks for commenting

[miniwally]

wasn't poland the area france and britain defended as they knew germany were going to be attacked net so i suggest adding maybe a french and british commander it's a possible idea

[samuelc812]

That was after the initial invasion by Germany and the Soviet's which is what this map depicts

[MrBenn]

[Advanced Draft]

[samuelc812]

[Advanced Draft]

Thankyou

[miniwally]

That was after the initial invasion by Germany and the Soviet's which is what this map depicts

interesting

[Qwert]

Well,from mine point of view,i belive that these map will be better to have Victory Objectives, for examle you can put that who conquer Warsaw and 3-4 larger town vin a game,instead these central territory who bombard all other German Generals. These i belive will be correct concept of Invasion of Poland 1939. These is how i see these map.

[samuelc812]

Thanks qwert I was wondering when you would pop in

[Qwert]

Well i have some experience in that area, if you research a little maybe you will find what whas town whas target in german plans,so you can take these towns for objectives, also you can do that for soviet side,and maybe in that way you can have two objectives like i have in Europe 1914.

[miniwally]

Well i have some experience in that area, if you research a little maybe you will find what whas town whas target in german plans,

Well they msotly wanted the polish corridor i think then it conencted east prussia to them

[Qwert]

These is visualy how i see map of poland(well actualy these is how im start in create of map,begining is every time simple draft).
You all ready know that Germans have three initial direction to encircle Warshaw in fast way(blitzkrieg).
-Von Rundsted West Front
1.Blaskowitz to capture Lodz and to go for Warsaw,with help of Von rundsted who go south of Lodz
2.Wilhelm List target is Krakow and go north to Warsaw and part of units to close Romanian Bridgehead
3.Fedor von Bock to go south and attack Warsaw
4.Slovak state,actualy i dont research what these grande army done but when i look on statistic-18 dead-11 mising-46 wounded,its look to me that they have fight betwen self when he want to breakfest.
--------------------------------
When i look on map i have very interesting gameplay on mind.
German area and Soviet area will be open for players(no neutrals)also no borders betwen these areas. Poland will be neutral area.
Now i will add 3 or 4 entrance from Soviet area into Poland,also add 3 entrance from west German area and 2 entrance from Prussia.These give you very unique gameplay.
Objectives-German Objectives
Capture
1.Poznan
2.Lodz
3.Krakow
4.Warsaw
Soviet Objectives
Capture
1.Belostok
2.Brest
3.Lwow
4.Warsaw
-------------------
Ofcourse i dont do any big researsh only initial research. I hope that these can help to map get more autentical feel,because i will definitly work in these way,but these is in your hands now.

Click image to enlarge.

[sailorseal]

Great idea and great map!
1. Take that fog off
2. Move your name or a n00b might think thats a territory
3. Add that tanks can assualt through impassibles (I think they can)

[cairnswk]

Preliminary Review for Advancement to Main Foundry

This map thoroughly deserves to be advanced to the Main Foundry.
* Great graphics and appropriate use of icons
* well established gameplay from appropriate feedback i have observed and obviously more help to come from suggestions above.
* singularly this country Poland and subject of WWII invasion has not been done before and therefore has a degree of uniqueness
* feedback has been slow but then that is nothing new over the past few months
* committed and talented mapmaker
* a well deserved move IMHO.

[sailorseal]

So here is the break down:

Title/legend
Text is fine but could be bolder and maybe a little bigger in the case of the legend. Maybe mention that tanks can attack through impassibles (I assume they can if they can't mention it). Also change attack to assault. Move your name so it doesn't look like the name of that blank territory. Maybe extend the legend a little so you can spread the words out they are very cramped. Increase the size of WWiI.

Symbols
Pick a color for the arrows and stick with it. The soviet simple appears to have been pressed distort it. Move Semyon down a territory because the Nazi commanders do not touch and I think it should stay that way.

Game Play
The P.A.F. is so easy to reach with such a large bonus. Make it more difficult to reach/hold. It would be a major advantage to start on the soviet side or to start with the highest Nazi commander. I feel games would be short and there would not be much strategy, try to add maybe larger neutrals or added feature that makes it so players would not immediately go for the center P.A.F. The map looks fun but really needs some work.

[bryguy]

Click image to enlarge.

Wow, this is one great looking map!

Graphics:

I cant see anything wrong with the graphics, except that the borders look a little pixelated in spots, and the hole with smoke coming out of it doesn't really seem to fit. Great job with the graphics

Gameplay:

The only thing I can see with gameplay is that whoever starts on the left side gets an advantage, as all starting territories on the left side can attack 2 tanks and 2 planes, while those on the right side (and Fedor Von Bock) can only attack 2 tanks and 1 plane or 1 tank and 2 planes.

Great mape sam

[MrBenn]

Just a question, so please don't freak out on me here, but can you "get away with" the swastika? I think there is a law in Germany forbiding anything Nazi...

We're not in Germany so i doubt it matters

Actually, I think it does matter, because of the global reach of the site.... While I appreciate the historical accuracy of using the swastika, and while I personally don't object to its use in this context, I still think it would be appropriate to use an alternative symbol if possible. I not sure if there is any official CC policy on this [I'll make some enquiries], but the policy of sites such as eBay indicates that a change may be required...

Wikipedia wrote:
Because of its use by Hitler and the Nazis and, in modern times, by neo-Nazis and other hate groups, the swastika is largely associated with Nazism and white supremacy in most of the Western countries. As a result, all of its use, or its use as a Nazi or hate symbol is prohibited in some jurisdictions. Because of the stigma attached to the symbol, many buildings that have contained the symbol as decoration have had the symbol removed. Westerners whose family originates from India, including religions such as Jain, Hindu and other Indian religions, still use the swastika as a religious symbol, with no connection to Nazism, although not without being accused of cultural insensitivity.

[porkenbeans]

Accurate history books are more important than the changing peccadilloes, and political correctness that come and go. The truth of history must be preserved, this popular attempt to sanitize it, will only doom our children to repeat the mistakes of the past.

Showing a swastika when referring to Nazi-Germany, is NOT, in anyway, an endorsement of the atrocities that occurred in WWII. It is the flag of Germany from 1938. This is a map from that time. This is a map of what happened to Poland in 1940. Germany started to gobble from the east, while USSR, the west. It is just HISTORY, ...Tell the truth.

Besides, it helps to remind folks of just what the USA did to that flag.
We tore it down, stomped it with our big boot, and then pissed on it for good measure.
The countries of the world need to be reminded of this more, not less often.

[miniwally]

if you can't get around issues from using a swastika use german flag

[porkenbeans]

if you can't get around issues from using a swastika use german flag

It was the German flag.

[miniwally]

i mean the current german flag

[porkenbeans]

This is a map of 1940. Why on Earth would we want to saddle today's Germany with that designation. But on the other hand, They must not be allowed to pretend that it did not happen, or erase from history, what they did. We owe more than that, to the victims, and fallen soldiers of that bloody time.
The Germany of today is a tad embarrassed of what they did, and I can understand why they would want to sweep it in under the carpet. And so it is very understandable why in Germany, it is against he law to display that flag. This is not an attempt to respect the countless souls that found their mortality in the Gas-Chambers.

It is an attempt to make us all forget.

We are not Germany. We are not bound by their self-serving laws. If the powers that be at CC really want to show proper respect, I would lobby for the side that won. Not the side that wishes to make us forget.

I would also lobby for a tag to be included on this map, that somehow explains the intended respect that CC promotes in this map.

[samuelc812]

So here is the break down:

Title/legend
Text is fine but could be bolder and maybe a little bigger in the case of the legend. Maybe mention that tanks can attack through impassibles (I assume they can if they can't mention it). Also change attack to assault. Move your name so it doesn't look like the name of that blank territory. Maybe extend the legend a little so you can spread the words out they are very cramped. Increase the size of WWiI.

Barbed wire can only be passed in the direction of the One-Way arrow, if it does not show a tank can do this then it can't. My name does not even look like a territory name, i believe it is clear that it is the author's name and it is the only title in blue all the Territory Titles are black.

Symbols
Pick a color for the arrows and stick with it. The soviet simple appears to have been pressed distort it. Move Semyon down a territory because the Nazi commanders do not touch and I think it should stay that way.

No Commanders can attack each other because of the barbed wire, so Semyon can stay where it is, Commanders can only attack in the direction of the arrows. As for the arrow's colour they are fine.

Game Play
The P.A.F. is so easy to reach with such a large bonus. Make it more difficult to reach/hold. It would be a major advantage to start on the soviet side or to start with the highest Nazi commander. I feel games would be short and there would not be much strategy, try to add maybe larger neutrals or added feature that makes it so players would not immediately go for the center P.A.F. The map looks fun but really needs some work.

This has already been discussed, the P.A.F needs to be the most appealing target on the map. If it is more difficult to reach/hold than nobody will want to venture in to the centre which will make the game a stalemate. There are no advantages in terms of reaching the P.A.F, each commander can reach the P.A.F within 2 moves if they so desire, there is no advantage to any particular commander in that respect.

Thankyou for commenting

[the.killing.44]

I'd use one of those. Or look at qwert's Western front, what he does to the East.
I'll get a real good comment in tomorrow.

.44

[miniwally]

i agree with .44