[Rescued] Harder Better Faster Stronger

by **BaldAdonis** on Sun Feb 08, 2009 12:35 am

Previous Games and Results

show: Stage 1 Group A

show: Stage 1 Group B

show: Stage 1 Group C

show: Stage 1 Group D

show: Stage 1 Group E

show: Stage 1 Group F

show: Stage 1 Group G

show: Stage 1 Group H

show: Round 1

show: Round 2

show: Round 3

show: Scores

by **Blitzaholic** on Sun Feb 08, 2009 9:02 pm

thx bald for taking it over

any updates who is left?

by **Hopscotcher** on Mon Feb 09, 2009 1:22 am

Ditto to Blitz. Thanks for resuming the tournament even though I'll likely tank

by **BaldAdonis** on Mon Feb 09, 2009 4:44 am

Blitzaholic wrote:any updates who is left?

Everyone plays all the way through to the final round, so everyone is still in. The first two maps of round 1 are completed, so I'll get that Pearl Harbor game out to you as soon as I get privileges to run this. I just need the players list from e_i_pi and I can make some updates.

by **e_i_pi** on Mon Feb 09, 2009 4:48 am

BaldAdonis wrote:
Blitzaholic wrote:any updates who is left?

Everyone plays all the way through to the final round, so everyone is still in. The first two maps of round 1 are completed, so I'll get that Pearl Harbor game out to you as soon as I get privileges to run this. I just need the players list from e_i_pi and I can make some updates.

Sent

by **Blitzaholic** on Tue Feb 10, 2009 1:12 am

Hopscotcher wrote:Ditto to Blitz. Thanks for resuming the tournament even though I'll likely tank

BaldAdonis deserves the credit, not me, he took it over.

by **Hopscotcher** on Tue Feb 10, 2009 3:07 pm

I meant ditto as in... repeat of what you said lol

by **FroZzenSlayer** on Thu Feb 12, 2009 7:33 am

can you also update the standings since the 2 games have been played?

by **BaldAdonis** on Thu Feb 12, 2009 7:56 am

FroZzenSlayer wrote:can you also update the standings since the 2 games have been played?

Should be up soon. I'm just messing with the formatting to make it look good.

by **bigreuben** on Thu Feb 12, 2009 9:20 am

BaldAdonis wrote:

Don't get me wrong but I think the scoring should be separated by groups and not all together:
I think it should look more like this:

show

by **lhcguy** on Thu Feb 12, 2009 10:28 am

Bigreuben is right.. (also, i wrote my own little c++ tool, to show me the stats of my own group, including the chance of getting to the next level, when the rest of the games are completly random)...

by **BaldAdonis** on Thu Feb 12, 2009 3:23 pm

bigreuben wrote:Don't get me wrong but I think the scoring should be separated by groups and not all together.

Ah, but if everyone plays 12 games, then the groups won't be static. Once you finish a stage, you'll be shuffled. If I eliminated players at each stage, then keeping groups (and group scores) together would be vital. So unless you want to play 12 8-player games with the same group, I'll need to put everyone's scores together.

by **bigreuben** on Thu Feb 12, 2009 6:30 pm

BaldAdonis wrote:
bigreuben wrote:Don't get me wrong but I think the scoring should be separated by groups and not all together.
Ah, but if everyone plays 12 games, then the groups won't be static. Once you finish a stage, you'll be shuffled. If I eliminated players at each stage, then keeping groups (and group scores) together would be vital. So unless you want to play 12 8-player games with the same group, I'll need to put everyone's scores together.

O.K I see our problem... We think that all of us understood the settings for this tourney while actually it's much less then that...
I'll go through the original post and will try to give the explanation to what I understood from it, I think it would be great if anyof the participants that understood something differently will write it so we all can be on the same page.

The tournament will have 64 players minimum, split into 8 groups of 8 each.
Each group will play 4 rounds - Harder, Better, Faster, Stronger - and each round will have 3 games, so everyone gets 12 games.

What I understand from this is that each player will play 3 Harder games, 3 Better games, 3 Faster games and 3 Stronger, all will be in the same group of 8 players.

The top 4 from each group will go to the next stage, making it 32 players.

What I understand from this is that 4 players that get the most points in their group will advance to the next stage (this is why I don't think general scoretable helps with anything here).

We repeat this procedure again to get it down to 16, and once more to get it down to 8 - the final round.

What I understand from this is that the players that advanced to the second stage will be devided to new groups of 8 and will play 3 Harder games, 3 Better games, 3 Faster games and 3 Stronger again, and again it will be the top 4 scores of their group to advance to the next stage.

Round 1 - Harder
Scoring:
The good ole 'who got knocked out when' method. Knocked out first means you finish 8th, win the game you finish 1st.

I think there was a guy in my group that understood it a little different, What I understand from this is that the player that get knocked out first in their group game will finish 8th and the one who won that group game will be the one to finish first (and not the first to be knocked out in all of that round games finish last, that would be 64th, and the one who wins their group last, datewise, is the first one)

Round 2 - Better
Scoring:
Winner automatically comes first, and decides who comes second. Second place then decides who comes third, and so on all the way down to 6th place who decides the wooden spooners (they both get 1pt). That's right folks - favouritism can play a part in this round.

I think that this one is pretty clear, like pick-up ball game, the one that wins choose his friends to get more points. Of course only in his group.

Round 3 - Faster
Scoring:
First player to eliminate someone else comes first, and the eliminated player comes 8th. Next eliminated player comes 7th. As for the player making the elimination, if they are not yet placed (ie - not 1st), they come 2nd. If they are already placed, 2nd is still up for grabs. Wash rinse repeat.

What I understand from this is that is that you better kill first, if not then second but KILL someone and you will get more points, anyway the faster you kill more points you get. Of course only in his group.

Round 4 - Stronger
Scoring:
Winner comes first. The 2nd through 8th place is worked out by totalling the number of armies each player has left at the end of the game. Loser with the highest amount of armies comes 2nd, next highest 3rd, and so on. The eliminated player obviously comes last with 1pt. (See below for ties)

I think that I will only repeat the words above cause I can't explain it any other (better) way.

Scoring range for a single player over the four rounds (ie 12 games) is 12 points minimum, 252 points maximum. An average score is about 81 points.

What I understand from this is that every player that plays 12 games (4 rounds of any stage) can get, if he come last or next to it in all games, 12 points or if he won all games 252 (21*12).
What also I understand from that is that scores rest between stages (each time it's what you did against this certain group of players)

One last thing about what you wrote... none of the players are mathematically eliminated after 2 games, even if a player came 8th in both first games he has 2 points, if he wins the 3rd game he now has 23 points, that score will put him in the top four scores of his group those he will advance, but anyway it's not the case.

One last thing that I wrote in the older thread, is that stephen wayne is a deadbeat and retired from the site... you should call a reserve in his spot

by **e_i_pi** on Fri Feb 13, 2009 12:15 am

bigreuben is interpreting the rules I wrote out correctly.

Basically, each group is separate, with each 8 players playing 12 games all together. They are scored for each game, and once the 12 games are up, the bottom half of each group is eliminated.

That brings it down to 32 players. These 32 are divided up into 4 groups of 8 players each. Each of those groups has scores reset to zero, and they all play 12 games each like before, with scoring like before.

Once those games are done, the bottom half of each group is eliminated, leaving 16 players, which form 2 groups. Same process here, leaving 8 players for the final group, winner takes all.

Of course, now that this is out of my hands, BA can run it how he wants.

EDIT: Freemiums should be equally distributed into groups. In the first stage, every group had 1 freemium, and I think 1 or 2 groups had 2 freemiums. Once stage two commences, the freemiums should be equally distributed again, with everyone else randomly distributed.

by **Blitzaholic** on Fri Feb 13, 2009 12:29 am

lhcguy wrote:Bigreuben is right..

I agree, lets just keep it the same as e_i_pi had and shorten the fields.

Group A:
1. coded: ___________29 pts
2. killmanic: ________22 pts
3. Blitzaholic: _______16 pts
3. Artimis: _________16 pts
5. Jalapeno: _________9 pts
6. Hopscotcher: ______7 pts
7. Don 1: ____________6 pts
8. seamusvibe:_______ 3 pts

Group B:
1. John Price: ________29 pts
2. DBandit70: ________22 pts
3. R0k0v: ___________16 pts
4. InsomniaRed: _____14 pts
5. blakebowling: _____10 pts
6. alamo1234321: _____9 pts
7. DimnjacarStef:_____ 4 pts
7. pimphawks70: ______4 pts

and so on for the rest of the groups...the TOP 4 from each group advance, rest are eliminated, is how I understood it as well.

by **BaldAdonis** on Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:38 am

e_i_pi wrote:Basically, each group is separate, with each 8 players playing 12 games all together. They are scored for each game, and once the 12 games are up, the bottom half of each group is eliminated.

Once those games are done, the bottom half of each group is eliminated, leaving 16 players, which form 2 groups. Same process here, leaving 8 players for the final group, winner takes all.

I'm keeping with the stages part (ie we replay the same format with fewer people) but I'm going to randomize the groups again after every round. When they are fixed, you will probably end up with groups where 5 or more players are in the top half of the competition, and some will still be eliminated. On the flip side, you will bring along players who aren't up to par, just because they were lucky enough to be in an easy group. No free rides.

by **bigreuben** on Tue Feb 17, 2009 1:23 am

Well, now we are 64 next stage 32 after that 16 and 8... that is 3 different stages, you really believe that someone who got an "easy group" will survive all of that stages just to get to the finals, I mean just get there!!!
If someone gets an "easy group" he will only get to the second stage... not more, unless you believe that more then half of the players got an easy group.

Now I'll explain why I'm against this move: Let's say I'm playing better BETTER and FASTER and not so well HARDER and STRONGER, my strategy is to get as many points possible at my weakness and to get major points, now because of the group change I can get even worst players on my weakest and it doesn't matter what I get on my better settings I'll be in the next stage! or it can be the other way around I can get the best players in my stronger rounds and then I have practically no chance to advance.

What I'm trying to say is that it actually puts more on the lucky side of a draw then on the strategy of a group.

by **BaldAdonis** on Tue Feb 17, 2009 10:21 pm

bigreuben wrote:What I'm trying to say is that it actually puts more on the lucky side of a draw then on the strategy of a group.

No, it doesn't. Your scenario is anecdotal, it doesn't describe what would actually happen to most players. Statistically, shuffling decreases the number of under-qualified players who advance.

by **Keellan** on Wed Feb 18, 2009 11:08 am

Still waiting on 1 in group D

by **BaldAdonis** on Wed Feb 18, 2009 2:07 pm

Keellan wrote:Still waiting on 1 in group D

I just got this message from him this morning, in response to a reminder:

shadowllama wrote:i resign from any tournament sign ups.

So I'll call up a reserve, and it should start soon.

by **bigreuben** on Thu Feb 19, 2009 4:33 am

so now it's only group G that is still waiting for the last one....

by **bigreuben** on Fri Mar 13, 2009 7:09 pm

as I write this, there is only one more game left playable in this round... I think it would be nice if we can see how the scoreboard changed with all this games that are over now...