***Finn Rock Fallout*** -- Game Over ~ Infected Win

[dagreatbroomhead]

What doesn't make sense Broom, is why you let the lynch go on against Auto if you knew IC was mafia? You made the choice to protect yourself at the sacrifice of the cop.

I didn’t know for sure (could be a vig). And considering that my role (as far as I can see it) picks up other’s roles(not taking but copying*) and I also assumed there would be another cop. I placed my life over their’s because I thought I could obtain the doc ability.

*the star is for, I never think that IC had the trigger ability, I just think that he had a bomb on him because he was mafia and he was bad.

well even if he is possibly lying about this, we can't afford to take that chance and lose a power role.

Broom, how do we know you didn't also get the power to infect from IC?

You don’t, but I never came in any more contact with him than you did. I only search peoples stuff, not make out with them.

I think we need to hear from Broom again before pushing any votes. And as we are quickly losing daylight here, Broom get your ass back here!

So you search people and get whats on them? Then how could you have assumed the doctor's power/role? If you were to assume the doc's power, than you assumed the mafia's power as well.

Hey I am stubling through this just like you are. Maybe certain people have nothing to take.

And to someone else’s point as to why I would be mafia: just because I find a gun on the street, doesn’t make me a murder.

All I know is, he claim to know about AK being mafia from night 1, but did nothing to point a finger at AK on day 1, even when AK had as many as 7 votes. WHY?

i don't claim to know that AK was mafia, i claim to know that he had explosives, i had no clue what my power really did, that was the first night. and plus, i vauled myself over anyone else at that point when i did figure out what i could do.

That is if the speculation is correct, and maybe he went to use his role on backglass and inadvertantly didn't realize that while he was trying to take backglass's power he killed him because he technically had the power to infect.

Why wouldn’t I have killed mach then?

He can still kill at night though, he picked that up from the mafia, but his win condition would remain the same.. so I think that we should keep him alive and rely on him to kill a supsected mafia.

I cannot kill at night, don’t know where you got that from.



Also, I forgot to do this a long time ago: VOTE: MB

[dagreatbroomhead]

Okay, well i promised you the articles, so here is my favoite one: FINDING MAFIA! first is the intro, and then the article. this is by a very smart person who has nothing to do with this game.

Some general rules of thumb[1] that I use:

* Players want to tell you their role on some level -except when they are playing doctors-... docs want to tell you they aren't docs
* Pro-town roles rarely have a valid reason to lie. Almost always, pro-town lies are the result of poor play. Therefore, you should LynchAllLiars. This is a MetaGame ploy to help encourage people to play better.
* Experienced players have seen variations on it before. So when experienced players ask "what's up with XXX" it means they probably did it. Esp. if they try to tell the town that it "must be" a pro-town ability. Same with Newbies, generally, but there is more variability.

I do things on a percentage basis when I take notes I add a percentage (shown in parens). I won't say that the numbers are all I use, but they help. The numbers are not very scientificly generated...

The common tells for the mafia break down into two categories. The stand alone tells and the associative tells. The stand alone tells are most accurate early in the game and the associative tells are more useful later in the game. I'm splitting this in two sections. In part 1, I'll discuss the more obvious and well known tells. Part 2 will be the really interesting bit.

Rules for Finding Mafia

1. The first player to congratulate the doctor is scum or doctor (+20, +10)
2. Watch for WishyWashy voting (+10)
3. Third person on a wagon is likely to be mafia (+15)
4. Fourth person on a wagon is likely to be mafia (+10)
5. Admitting someone is a townie without saying "IF" (+10)
6. Mafia generally have more information than any other player, so the person who picks up on tells/hints easiest is more likely to be mafia (+10%; There are some notable exceptions and I always take experience into consideration).

Notes

* If you think someone is a doctor, he's probably a mafia.
* Day 1 and 2 voting patterns are most important after a mafia is found.

Day 1 mafia errors
Voting each other while FOSing an innocent. I don't know why, but this is uber common. After a mafia dies (or even an inncoent if you are observant) you can go back through your analysis.

Wishy Washy voting patterns and wagon jumping.

Asking for excessive explanation from co-mafia.

If a mafia is about to be lynched, they often want to try to play the WineInFrontOfMe game. Don't, it's too easy to screw it up and it's even more likely that you ALREADY screwed it up.

[dagreatbroomhead]

i suggest a few of you look around.

[wicked]

Broom, what is your role called? What did Andy term it?

[dagreatbroomhead]

Broom, what is your role called? What did Andy term it?

trigger. i was a locked role until i became a trigger.

you will not find it on any mafia site, Andy had been creating new roles for a while. the two faced thing, that was pretty ingenous, but also dangerous. in a samller game, it would have been broken in favor of the mafia. We are just lucky he died before his co-mason. if his co-mason had died first, we would have taken AK as 100% town... and been screwed

ALSO, i will stay around for about a half hour, if you have any real-tiem questions

[wicked]

What doesn't make sense Broom, is why you let the lynch go on against Auto if you knew IC was mafia? You made the choice to protect yourself at the sacrifice of the cop.

I didn’t know for sure (could be a vig). And considering that my role (as far as I can see it) picks up other’s roles(not taking but copying*) and I also assumed there would be another cop. I placed my life over their’s because I thought I could obtain the doc ability.

You said previously a vigilante is on the mafia's side. You also guessed in your very first post there was only one cop. What you've just written up there contradicts both of those statements.

[wicked]

So if your role was locked, how were you able to use it the first night?

[dagreatbroomhead]

What doesn't make sense Broom, is why you let the lynch go on against Auto if you knew IC was mafia? You made the choice to protect yourself at the sacrifice of the cop.

I didn’t know for sure (could be a vig). And considering that my role (as far as I can see it) picks up other’s roles(not taking but copying*) and I also assumed there would be another cop. I placed my life over their’s because I thought I could obtain the doc ability.

You said previously a vigilante is on the mafia's side. You also guessed in your very first post there was only one cop. What you've just written up there contradicts both of those statements.

first any noob should know that a vig is ALWAYS on the side of the town, if they were on the mafia's side, it would NOT be a vig. never said that.

secondly, i always guess at the set up of a game, guess is the key word there. i almost nevr think i am right. i mean a two faced mafia? it would have been impossible for me to guess because i never knew he created it.

[dagreatbroomhead]

So if your role was locked, how were you able to use it the first night?

i unlock it, thats the whole point. i search people to unlock things that i can do.

[Master Bush]

Okay, well i promised you the articles, so here is my favoite one: FINDING MAFIA! first is the intro, and then the article. this is by a very smart person who has nothing to do with this game.

Some general rules of thumb[1] that I use:

* Players want to tell you their role on some level -except when they are playing doctors-... docs want to tell you they aren't docs
* Pro-town roles rarely have a valid reason to lie. Almost always, pro-town lies are the result of poor play. Therefore, you should LynchAllLiars. This is a MetaGame ploy to help encourage people to play better.
* Experienced players have seen variations on it before. So when experienced players ask "what's up with XXX" it means they probably did it. Esp. if they try to tell the town that it "must be" a pro-town ability. Same with Newbies, generally, but there is more variability.

I do things on a percentage basis when I take notes I add a percentage (shown in parens). I won't say that the numbers are all I use, but they help. The numbers are not very scientificly generated...

The common tells for the mafia break down into two categories. The stand alone tells and the associative tells. The stand alone tells are most accurate early in the game and the associative tells are more useful later in the game. I'm splitting this in two sections. In part 1, I'll discuss the more obvious and well known tells. Part 2 will be the really interesting bit.

Rules for Finding Mafia

1. The first player to congratulate the doctor is scum or doctor (+20, +10)
2. Watch for WishyWashy voting (+10)
3. Third person on a wagon is likely to be mafia (+15)
4. Fourth person on a wagon is likely to be mafia (+10)
5. Admitting someone is a townie without saying "IF" (+10)
6. Mafia generally have more information than any other player, so the person who picks up on tells/hints easiest is more likely to be mafia (+10%; There are some notable exceptions and I always take experience into consideration).

Notes

* If you think someone is a doctor, he's probably a mafia.
* Day 1 and 2 voting patterns are most important after a mafia is found.

Day 1 mafia errors
Voting each other while FOSing an innocent. I don't know why, but this is uber common. After a mafia dies (or even an inncoent if you are observant) you can go back through your analysis.

Wishy Washy voting patterns and wagon jumping.

Asking for excessive explanation from co-mafia.

If a mafia is about to be lynched, they often want to try to play the WineInFrontOfMe game. Don't, it's too easy to screw it up and it's even more likely that you ALREADY screwed it up.

Are you trying to say that you haven't acted like any of these things all game? Of course you didn't, cause you read this article. I guess if I was mafia and I had this article, I would also go about not doing any of the thing on here.

But there are a couple of things that you did do. Like fos someone who turned out to be a townie (cram) also....

Mafia generally have more information than any other player

You seemed pretty sure on how many mafia players there was, and what happened on the first night.

I also enjoyed seeing you vote for me. The truth is, I'm gone after this day. Mafia will vote me out if you are mafia, cause I'm pretty sure I'm on to who else is mafia, and if you aren't mafia, I'm getting lynched on day 3. So my days are numbered.

[wicked]

So on Day 1, you both guess there's one cop, then assume there's two?

[wicked]

MB if you're so sure, again, about who is mafia, then ANNOUNCE IT!! if you're correct, as you say you are, then mafia wouldn't dare b/c then whoever's left will target them.

[Master Bush]

AK
Broom
Bogusbet

and if there's a 4th, that's where it gets tough

[dagreatbroomhead]

But there are a couple of things that you did do. Like fos someone who turned out to be a townie (cram) also....

OMG I FOSed someone! I must be mafia! (sarcasm)
That’s what it is, a finger of suspision. He was saying that its often a sub-concious mistake to FOS a mafia and vote and innocent. Or vis versa. It does happen, not a +100% it’s a +10%

I also enjoyed seeing you vote for me.

I did too 

The truth is, I'm gone after this day. Mafia will vote me out if you are mafia, cause I'm pretty sure I'm on to who else is mafia, and if you aren't mafia, I'm getting lynched on day 3. So my days are numbered.

that’s just a logical fallicy to make us not vote for you “since your doomed anyway”
BS

[wicked]

Now if you look back on day, you will see that Broom voted for AK. That means nothing, cause once we found out autoload was the cop, everyone including the mafia and AK himself, knew he was toast. So what would be the best way to get by under the radar as mafia, after we found out about autoload telling the truth about AK......it would be to take part in his lynching the next day, when you know there's no way to stop it.

WHOA!!! That's what I was trying to tell you earlier and you completely disagreed!!!

MB, I'm finding your constant waffling and accusing of everyone to be very suspicious. You have accused everyone here and claimed you were sure they were mafia this entire game. I was beginning to trust you since you kept saying Houssam and I were townies, but you could've been doing that just to get me to trust you and take the heat off of Houssam, who I still think may be pro-mafia.

FOS MB

MB, I'm thinking you didn't see this... care to respond?

[dagreatbroomhead]

thanks andy

although andy will not accept my future vote i will still take the 6th vote so if/when broomy gets to 5 votes no-one vote for him i will make the 6th vote
I am willing to stick my balls on the line on this one. I do not believe broomy and i have stated several times i think this is a set up

I'd like to see you put your balls where your mouth is!

I mean...

Er....


Vote: Dagreatbroomhead

Also, mach, i don't get this from you? you seemed to be on the not vote for broom side, and then all of a sudden, you hop on a bandwagon that you seem that you don't believe in? with no evidence too-boot?

very suspicious.

[wicked]

a smart mafia WOULD vote for IC if they saw it was obvious he was being voted out.

No, a smart Mafia would just not vote at all, and claim they were not around durning the time when everyone voted.

I'm telling you guys, Trestain is mafia. Go through this thread and find me one thing that would clear his name.

Because there's always a chance a vote can swing back. They wouldn't be the first 4 or 5 votes of another mafia player, cause they cant be part of the movement to get their own killed, and they cant vote at the end, when they could be the deciding vote.

[Master Bush]

Let's name the people I was "sure" about being townies.

AK ---> He was a mafia
Rev ---> Everyone was sure he was mafia cause of his connection with AK

Trestain ---> Have changed my mind

Broom ---> still believe to be mafia and I'm voting for him
bogusbet ---> still believe to be mafia and will be voting for next
mach ---> now I'm not sure

So 6 people I was "sure" about. 3 are/or I still believe to be mafia, and a 4th that I'm not sure about. One who was connected with a mafia member, and most people were ready to lynch Kyle after AK when we found out auto was a cop. And 1 that I have admitted to changing my mind.

I admit, that I do like to throw in the word "sure" when my mind turns, and something comes to me, but it's only to grab people's attention. I'm I really "sure" no, but I'm confident in what I'm thinking.

[wicked]

actually when I was re-reading, I'm pretty sure I saw you say that you were sure dussle was mafia too.

[Master Bush]

a smart mafia WOULD vote for IC if they saw it was obvious he was being voted out.

No, a smart Mafia would just not vote at all, and claim they were not around durning the time when everyone voted.

I'm telling you guys, Trestain is mafia. Go through this thread and find me one thing that would clear his name.

Because there's always a chance a vote can swing back. They wouldn't be the first 4 or 5 votes of another mafia player, cause they cant be part of the movement to get their own killed, and they cant vote at the end, when they could be the deciding vote.

I dont even know what you're saying here.

[wicked]

oh dear God, scroll the hell up, you can't have missed it twice!

[Master Bush]

actually when I was re-reading, I'm pretty sure I saw you say that you were sure dussle was mafia too.

No, what I was sure about, was that dussle was an idiot who changed his vote like 6 times in a 30 minute spam.

[Master Bush]

oh dear God, scroll the hell up, you can't have missed it twice!

I have now missed it a 3rd time. What are you saying?

[Machiavelli]

Unvote

[wicked]

Now if you look back on day, you will see that Broom voted for AK. That means nothing, cause once we found out autoload was the cop, everyone including the mafia and AK himself, knew he was toast. So what would be the best way to get by under the radar as mafia, after we found out about autoload telling the truth about AK......it would be to take part in his lynching the next day, when you know there's no way to stop it.

WHOA!!! That's what I was trying to tell you earlier and you completely disagreed!!!

MB, I'm finding your constant waffling and accusing of everyone to be very suspicious. You have accused everyone here and claimed you were sure they were mafia this entire game. I was beginning to trust you since you kept saying Houssam and I were townies, but you could've been doing that just to get me to trust you and take the heat off of Houssam, who I still think may be pro-mafia.

FOS MB

MB, I'm thinking you didn't see this... care to respond?

a smart mafia WOULD vote for IC if they saw it was obvious he was being voted out.

No, a smart Mafia would just not vote at all, and claim they were not around durning the time when everyone voted.

I'm telling you guys, Trestain is mafia. Go through this thread and find me one thing that would clear his name.

Because there's always a chance a vote can swing back. They wouldn't be the first 4 or 5 votes of another mafia player, cause they cant be part of the movement to get their own killed, and they cant vote at the end, when they could be the deciding vote.