Abandoned Tournaments - Discussion

[jpcloet]

Newsletter 71 Opinion of jpcloet:

Q: Is there anything that you would recommend to encourage new tournament organizers?

A: I'm going to be overly critical here and say that we don't need anymore TO's. The reason being that I think too many tournaments are being abandoned or not started, and that the criteria/rules around tournaments need to be raised. Look at the # of threads in each area. Ongoing 357 Completed 866 Abandoned 550. That means almost 4 out of every 10 tournaments does not finish or start, and that of the ongoing ones, we should expect another 139 more tournaments from the ongoing to not finish. There are several opportunities here.

Is a 40% non-starting and non-completion a problem?

I've reviewed my tournaments and I've been in 7 or more abandoned tournaments and it's about 40% personally as well.

Please answer this from the perspective of a player participating in a tournament.

[Bruceswar]

As a new T.O. I found it really easy to get up and running. I do think you need to keep on top of things or else you will lose it. Just made 120 games and sent out PM's. As far as tournaments never finishing or starting. I have been in 1 where it did not finish. All others have completed or I was eliminated. There are 2 right now that are lagging in starting for me. We shall see how those go or if they start at all.

It took me about 3 days total time to get 48 teams signed up and ready, tournament rights, games made and PM's sent. Now I am sure that is not the norm, but it went well for me. Thanks to all those who made it soo easy.

[sailorseal]

I agree that this is a problem, I would make it so new TOs have to prove themselves, somehow to get privileges

[PaulusH]

To my opinion we need to get new organizers all the time. That includes tournaments that will be abandoned, so unfortunately it is part of the system.

There are basically two reasons we need new organizers. First of all earlier organizers will retire at some day. Second is to get innovation in the tournaments. Current organizers do innovate as well, but often based on earlier concepts. Also new organizers often take earlier concepts, which is good because it helps the tournaments going and that on his turn helps to increase the need of innovations.

My personal reason to start tournaments was the innovation part. What I mostly see is tournaments with 1v1 (or in doubles 2v2) games and often a bracket, a long league or a ladder. So I tried to introduce a fast league. Simply by using more people in one game you can get a complete competition with 25 people finished with 6 games each (or with 49 people with 8 games, etc). I don't say this is the best there is, but it is different. And like most things you might like it or not.

I also tried other concepts. One of them is mixing people over teams in tripple games (which is nicely running). Another concept was mixing a tournament with puzzles.
Since concepts are new I have the feeling I have to explain more. Furthermore getting them filled takes more time, but that gives often also more motivated tournament players. New concepts have also the risk that they become too complicated or not understood and end up at the abandoned. Mixing a tournament with puzzles didn't work; after one week the first team joined.

For some (new) organizers with or without some new ideas it turns out after starting that it is more work then they anticipated on. Also people who are good organizers might run into personal issues what force them to abandon the tournament they are running.

Conclusion to my opinion: abandon simply is a part of the tournament system and we need it.

[Gozar]

I would like to see some more stats on how many tournaments were abandoned when. I would suspect that the amount of abandoned tournaments are on the decline, but it would be interesting to see some numbers to see how much of a "problem" this is.

I don't think we should make players 'prove' they deserve privileges, or any limits should be imposed.

[Woodruff]

I agree with Gozar that new tournament organizers should not have to "prove themselves"...that will just drive them away. It probably would have irritated me enough that I'd have dropped it, and I've never had a tournament abandoned (or even slowed down, other than the initial signup stage because it was a large tourney).

I DO think it's a significant problem, but I agree with the other posters who have said that it just goes with the territory, unfortunately. I join enough tournaments that I don't really notice the ones that get abandoned much, so maybe that's the solution...join more tournaments, everyone! <smile>

[Optimus Prime]

Tournament organizers who chronically abandon tournaments are given plenty of chances to prove themselves, and if they do not reform they are punished by not being allowed to have any further privileges.

I feel the current system is adequate. You won't ever manage to rid the system of abandoned tournaments and I think trying to add further restrictions to start a tournament is only going to make it worse.

Make people jump through too many hoops and they won't jump through them at all.

[lancehoch]

Make people jump through too many hoops and they won't jump through them at all.

[sarcasm]Then there wouldn't be any abandoned tournaments.[/sarcasm]

[Lindax]

I have been (and still are) in numerous tournaments that were, or seem to be, abandoned. I think that really sucks. I think that if someone abandons a tournament, without even looking for a replacement TO, that person should not get tournament privileges anymore.

Another problem is the amount of tournaments under "ongoing" that are clearly abandoned or seem to be abandoned. With all due respect to the Tournament Directors (who otherwise do a great job), you guys should be more on top of those IMHO. I have reported various, but nothing seems to happen with them (the tournaments, I mean). It would be nice if there would be a search for replacement TO's or, in cases where a tournament has significantly advanced and is abandoned, maybe a Tournament Director could take over.

Lx

[jpcloet]

This survey is in another area and it is interesting to see the different perspectives, although the results from the players' view is less favourable than I tought it would be. There have been a few ideas given in both areas that are similar. There are some things that we can't change (like OPrime mentions), but there are some things we can do to improve tournaments and helping them get completed.

[Optimus Prime]

Make people jump through too many hoops and they won't jump through them at all.

[sarcasm]Then there wouldn't be any abandoned tournaments.[/sarcasm]

You are clearly a Decepticon. Off with your head!

[Kotaro]

[sarcasm]Then there wouldn't be any abandoned tournaments.[/sarcasm]

Since this a sarcastic thread, let me be the first to congratulate the thread started on a good idea!

Yay for sarcasm.

[ppgangster]

...I think that if someone abandons a tournament, without even looking for a replacement TO, that person should not get tournament privileges anymore...

I think that one abandonned tournament by a TO without any notice in the thread or without any response in post for less than one month (which means it is pretty much dead) shouldn't have the privileges given to them again.

I think it really sucks when it changes TO organizer too, as I signed up for one with a Freemium and he kept a free slot open for almost 3 weeks to make sure we would get in, then I pm the organiser for him to tell me in pm that it changed and he didn't know why the new TO didn't create games and so on... they both should be banned from starting new thread in the Join/Create Tournament as they didn't fulfilled their duties.

[sailorseal]

...I think that if someone abandons a tournament, without even looking for a replacement TO, that person should not get tournament privileges anymore...

I think that one abandonned tournament by a TO without any notice in the thread or without any response in post for less than one month (which means it is pretty much dead) shouldn't have the privileges given to them again.

I think it really sucks when it changes TO organizer too, as I signed up for one with a Freemium and he kept a free slot open for almost 3 weeks to make sure we would get in, then I pm the organiser for him to tell me in pm that it changed and he didn't know why the new TO didn't create games and so on... they both should be banned from starting new thread in the Join/Create Tournament as they didn't fulfilled their duties.

There is a ban system in place, it increases to permanent, now if your suggesting make it a "no tolerance" policy, I am all for that

[Gozar]

...I think that if someone abandons a tournament, without even looking for a replacement TO, that person should not get tournament privileges anymore...

I think that one abandonned tournament by a TO without any notice in the thread or without any response in post for less than one month (which means it is pretty much dead) shouldn't have the privileges given to them again.

I think it really sucks when it changes TO organizer too, as I signed up for one with a Freemium and he kept a free slot open for almost 3 weeks to make sure we would get in, then I pm the organiser for him to tell me in pm that it changed and he didn't know why the new TO didn't create games and so on... they both should be banned from starting new thread in the Join/Create Tournament as they didn't fulfilled their duties.

There is a ban system in place, it increases to permanent, now if your suggesting make it a "no tolerance" policy, I am all for that

Zero tolerance is not the way to go. Stuff comes up, and sometimes a TO needs to let a tournament go, but they should at least have a second chance.

[jpcloet]

I agree that a zero tolerance should not apply in this situation, however, the first two warning are just a . That's about it.

[Woodruff]

...I think that if someone abandons a tournament, without even looking for a replacement TO, that person should not get tournament privileges anymore...

I think that one abandonned tournament by a TO without any notice in the thread or without any response in post for less than one month (which means it is pretty much dead) shouldn't have the privileges given to them again.

I think it really sucks when it changes TO organizer too, as I signed up for one with a Freemium and he kept a free slot open for almost 3 weeks to make sure we would get in, then I pm the organiser for him to tell me in pm that it changed and he didn't know why the new TO didn't create games and so on... they both should be banned from starting new thread in the Join/Create Tournament as they didn't fulfilled their duties.

There is a ban system in place, it increases to permanent, now if your suggesting make it a "no tolerance" policy, I am all for that

I can't think of a single "no tolerance" policy that actually works correctly.