Moderator: Cartographers
WElRDLY wrote:Fellow Torontonian here. Let me know when the game is up and running. Could be interesting.
ender516 wrote:The graphics continue to improve, nice work. But I'm afraid I'm about to lift the horse's tail: how are you going to put unique identifiers on the map for all these territories? Not much space there. Do you plan to just name them "Politician A1", "Special Services B", "Gang C5", "Police Dept D2"and so on?
whitestazn88 wrote:hey, keep up the good work, its looking really good. i've got some suggestions though:
1) there are way too many dotted lines in this map. the best way to resolve this would be to just say all ___ attack each other, and since they have the same symbols and colored glow, then we'll know that. this saves space in the legend, allowing for more space for the map, which is still somewhat of an issue for me, although the loss of the dots will greatly help
2) i feel as though the map is too "free for all" if you know what i mean. since you currently having all politicians attacking each other, all cops attacking each other, and all gangs attacking each other, you might need to think of something to segregate the blocks a little more. for example, a da's office or a gang house would work, although at this point i would feel like thats taking too much from edbeards operation drug war map... maybe have the gangs in each block be rival gangs to limit their movement, that would really help in my opinion
3) what is the purpose of having turfs and blocks? there seems to be no bonus for any given turf, so if you're not using it, might as well lose it. again, this saves some space in the legend.
4) bonuses: at this point, i'm unsure about whether there are too many or too few bonuses. for example, block bonuses might enhance gameplay, but there are already 4 other bonuses... maybe limit those, for example, instead of saying all politicians get a bonus, all ss get a bonus, and all pd get a bonus in any given block, how about hold 1 politician, 1 ss, and 1 pd for a bonus of +2 and then on top of that have the gang bonuses, and then an overall block/turf bonus. the reason i like this is that people are more familiar with a bonus structure based on holding a whole region.
otherwise, keep up the good work, its looking better every time
otherwise, keep up the good work, its looking better every time
whitestazn88 wrote: "....otherwise, keep up the good work, its looking better every time"
swm3047 wrote:Wow Lux, major improvments each draft buddy. The text is much better this time and I am certainly looking forward to giving it a try when we can. Keep up the good work
oaktown wrote:hey lux,
Haven't stopped by in a while so i wanted to check on your progress. I'll echo the sentiments of others who've said that the map is still too busy - if you can develop this map to have traditional territories with borders it will be much easier to work out attack routes and keep things straight.
... I absolutely feel the same way !!! ... this is also something I just spoke of in my last post reply to this one... thx for echoing the sentiment... cuz it means a hell-of-alot more to hear it from someone of your qualifications than to hear the voice in my head... ... ...This is something that WILL change in the next draft...oaktown wrote:A word about type face: some fonts are primarily decorative and should be used sparingly and to attract the viewer's eye. Other fonts are functional and should be used for bodies of text. By using the graffiti font throughout you both give the font less impact by overloading the viewer's eye and you make the text nearly impossible to read. Use the graffiti in one or two places on the image only, and on the rest of the image give us something less busy.
....yes !!! ... you are right on this one also... I have to sit here and say to myself .... wow... time out !!!... I will have to merge more of the second draft with some of the third and some of the fourth... I WILL be staring at these three drafts for some time in order to successfully address these very good points you have just made !!! Thank you so very very much for offering me these comments.oaktown wrote:Finally, the theme (which I have mentioned before). I think I probably speak for many CC users when I say that Gangs of Toronto is not a phrase that immediately strikes fear into people's hearts, so it will be up toyou to sell us on this theme, and to do so you'll need to give us more than pistolas and spray paint. Why Toronto? What's the gang scene like? And what about this map makes me think I'm in Toronto and not Ottawa, or Winnipeg? Can you include any features on your map that are Toronto-specific, other than the shape (which most of us aren't going to be aware of)?
luxCRUSADER wrote:In summary, I plan to simply leave the names as is- but since reading your post, I now lean to adding the respective 'Block Letter' in front of the existing prefix you now see on the map. For example, in Block A you see the Police Department, which I have assigned the simply abbreviation of P1- the 'P' standing for Police, and the '1' representing the first of two 'TURFS' in the respective Block. I now will likely abbreviate the same Police Department example, with " AP1". But I could equally leave it as is simply following the Golden Rule: 'The less clutter on the game map, the better'. I hope this answers your question.
oaktown wrote:Finally, the theme (which I have mentioned before). I think I probably speak for many CC users when I say that Gangs of Toronto is not a phrase that immediately strikes fear into people's hearts, so it will be up toyou to sell us on this theme, and to do so you'll need to give us more than pistolas and spray paint. Why Toronto? What's the gang scene like? And what about this map makes me think I'm in Toronto and not Ottawa, or Winnipeg? Can you include any features on your map that are Toronto-specific, other than the shape (which most of us aren't going to be aware of)?
Danyael wrote:1.as all major cities have gangs and it could be anywhere and Toronto might be bad but theres worst
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/manitoba/story ... cides.html
and we are well on are way this year as i type theres gunshots
... well that's why you have to win the game as a "honest good cop" ...Danyael wrote: but i don`t want a map the world plays on to think oh Winnipeg u get murdered there
...again, I'm not trying to portray the Gangs fighting for their turf, as much as I am trying to let the individual player choose for themselves whether they wish to make Toronto the the Good, the Bad or the UglyDanyael wrote:2.gangs kill each other not cops, door to door salesmen, and ss they get in the way
as your gameplay is very neat and interesting i think theres a lot better ways to portray gangs and fighting for there turf
... No offense taken and I hope you can feel the same wayDanyael wrote:i`m sorry if i am coming off harsh
thats not my point
Danyael wrote:My point is think outside the box which is currently Toronto
and maybe you will create your own gangland
and you may find it even more rewarding
Danyael wrote:and please tone the amount of colours this causes much more clutter then you may see
ender516 wrote:Just to give you some encouragement, lux,
ender516 wrote:... I like your graphical depiction of attacks in one turf better than thenobodies80's chart: it makes the rock-paper-scissors scheme more obvious...
ender516 wrote:But I would like to suggest a few adjustments that might make it even more clear. First, arrange the three example gangs in an equilateral triangle so it is easy to see the symmetry of the attacks between them, and use plain solid black double headed arrows to show the two-way attacks between them. Then, use solid double headed arrows to show the two-way attacks between gangs and special services. If you feel the need to keep the colour scheme, use a gold arrowhead pointing from the special services to the gangs and a black arrowhead from the gangs to the special services, making the shared shaft two-tone. I would try drawing this up, but I am not very experienced yet with Photoshop or GIMP and I just remembered that the fact that I had Canada Day off today doesn't mean I don't have to go to work tomorrow. This is NOT a weekend, repeat, NOT a weekend. And so to bed.
ender516 wrote:Wow, a lot of good work has gone into this draft. ...
ender516 wrote:The map is still very dense with text. Not necessarily bad, just different from most maps. Probably something you will have to continue to defend.
...I think when I typed that word, I was dancing out of my "Risk Chair"... still listening to Bob Marley's "Bad Boy" song...Thanks for pointing this out to me... Frankly, I'm sure I would not have caught it.ender516 wrote:...Typo: "Kyrptic" should be "Kryptic"...
Actually, the credit for this goes to: none other, than: "thenobodies80",who pointed it out to me from the 2nd draft, but all I did was go another 20 opacity points down. Makes a big difference...ender516 wrote:...The army circles look better (I was going to say something, but you caught it without me.)...
This is what took the most time, I think... I kept talking to myself ... ..."like that's something new"...and I just went over and over the possible different misunderstandings that could occur... Its the inclusion of the statement whereby: "All white divisional borders are impassable ..."; so.. YEP ! you got it right ! the "rock-paper-scissors" occurs inside the division. In order for the gang to spread its evil, it must have control of the special services unit and politician- both of which are the 'zone choke points'; and their are 3 in ALL 8 zones. How easy can that be ? The challenge now for the hard core player who has secured one zone... will be when to start investing in the Gang Crusading Projects, which collectively will earn a NICE 21 points... Imagine dropping that on your Special Forces as they start their " Gang Sweep" into the neighboring zones to wipe out the 'Gangs' or 'Spread evil' ... It will be fun ! I think the days of the "turtling stacker" might be over... (until they add small 'turn-by-turn' percentage increases to continental bonuses)ender516 wrote: ...So Police Divisions attack only gangs in their map Division and are attacked only by the Politician in their map Division? That seems to be the conclusion I should draw from the description of attacks, but I just want to be sure.
whitestazn88 wrote:nice update, although i still have a few problems.
-i'm not a big fan of the whole "the good the bad or the ugly" and "watcha gonna do when they come 4 u" lines in the first story,...
whitestazn88 wrote:... otherwise its perfect...
... thank God, map-maker "thenobodies80" stepped in and said: "give it a try" !!! God Bless you "thenobodies80" !gimil wrote:From what I can see so far I don't believe you have the graphics ability to take a map through to quenching. Your first and foremost priority should be to learning and familiarizing yourself with your software...
whitestazn88 wrote:- re-name the ss units to ssa, ssb, etc so that there isn't a territory named ass...
whitestazn88 wrote:- you don't need to explain that the ss and politicians are choke points. instead i would just say, white lines are impassable, and can only be passed via ss or politicians... it will save you some space...
...hmm... I do see your point.... but here it is a case of identifying my map of Toronto on the actual Police Divisional Boundaries in the City of Toronto. And perhaps more importantly, the divisions are what gives the "ALMOST PERFECT" ... almost perfect... symmetrical play between 8 players in a game. That is to say: every zone gets 9 territories !!!!!!!!!!!! Every zone gets 3 choke points !!!!!!!!!!! Every zone gets an almost equal chance of winning !!!!!!! I say almost cuz in some divisions some choke points have "extra connections". I AM PROUD OF WHAT I HAVE ACCOMPLISHED HERE with the map idea ! And as I said above, it is the simplest COMPLEX map to play on !!!!! I wish to be challenged on this point by someone... bring it on !!!! If proven wrong I will be the first to apologize and will pay your premium membership when it comes due for renewal... Just in case, we have lawyers in da house, I will only pay the first person to prove me wrong ... otherwise my wife ... will kill mewhitestazn88 wrote:- i don't think the divisions are needed, you can just use 8 zones in my opinion...
whitestazn88 wrote:- can the projects attack anything else? i dunno if that bonus works right now... but it was a great idea to add them in ...
whitestazn88 wrote:...thats all for now i think... i'll get back to this later....
whitestazn88 wrote:...again, great work, keep at it, i'm happy with how this is progressing
whitestazn88 wrote:alright, well now i understand the divisions, so that makes a lot more sense. as for the projects, i just wanted to know if the last one, project fusion, can go anywhere else, or is it a dead end? i just figured that maybe it will end up going out and attacking something from there
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