cheater points

[legionbuck]

My partner and I were involved in a game that was a 3 team doubles, Canada map. PirateBlackBall (team 3) was kicked out of not only this game, but all active games he was in for violating the rules. Since that means he was probably a multi, it is my contention that his actions directly gave the advantage to that team. Team 3 won that game because of this.

Even though PirateBlackBall was kicked, team 3 was awarded all the points for that game. This is an outrage ! How can CC permit a cheater to benefit at the expense of honest CC players? Doesn't this impugn the integrity of fair play for this club ?

My opinion is this : If you are playing a team game, all members of a team are responsible to play by the rules. If one team member cheats...as in any other sport or game...that team is penalized. I believe that all points awarded to the winner of a game come from the offender that cheats, and NOBODY that is an honest CC player should suffer while a cheater benefits !

What say my fellow CC members ? Andy and Optimus Prime have been contacted about this...let your voices be heard !

[Masli]

I thought those army's would turn into neutrals.....

[legionbuck]

In a fog of war game you can't tell that, where they are, and we are talking about points awarded to cheaters that thier team wins the game. You get kicked for violating the rules, you shouldn't get points from ANYBODY at all ! Don't you think the cheater should forfeit those points, and be penalized by donating all points awarded to winners ?

In a team game the surviving partner GOT the spots added to his positions...just rechecked the game log...game 5022233, Canada map.

[jaseleo]

myself and zander100 got screwed by this rule no way back into the game they should turn neutral

[legionbuck]

jaseleo...good to hear from you again....the troop spots may have turned neutral, we couldn't tell...fog of war. But the issue here is...points awarded to cheaters.

[legionbuck]

NEWS FLASH : Just rechecked the game log....those spots did NOT become neutral, they reverted to the cheater's partner, and that meant he got not only a better position on the map, but also MORE TROOPS on his turn...an unfair advantage that gave that team the game !

[Hoagy]

I only came across this flaw recently when I was playing a triples game. One of the opposing team deadbeated, and his armies just happened to be given over to the player he shared half a continent with, giving the other player not only a greater amount of territories but a continent bonus as well.

In spite of this, we still won the game. Missing turns and deadbeating is NEVER a good strategy. Were it not for the continent bonus etc., as soon as one player is out in a team-game, it is normally decided by the fact that the team with the extra player is deploying at least 3 more armies per turn than the other team, and a small advantage soon turns into a big advantage. (Escalating games can be one exception to this).

Back to the original point. I agree that the site moderators need to have a good, long, hard look at the ways in which they deal with cheating. You can foe a cheat, but then how do you know you're not going to have the same thing happen to you again in the next game with a different player. If this happens numerous times, your points can drop at an alarming rate no matter how well you play or how lucky you are with the dice. The best course of action would be that if cheating is discovered in a game, the points from the game should be nullified. That way the cheats don't prosper and the victims of cheating don't lose out. (Conversely, the points should stand if the cheaters lose anyway despite their cheating). Common sense should prevail in these situations.

[owenshooter]

NEWS FLASH : Just rechecked the game log....those spots did NOT become neutral, they reverted to the cheater's partner, and that meant he got not only a better position on the map, but also MORE TROOPS on his turn...an unfair advantage that gave that team the game !

it is not a newsflash, it is one of the rules of CC that many people don't like. sorry you had to deal with it, but it is a written rule. furthermore, why punish everyone on the team? often times, people play team games with members they don't know and have never played with before. if that member joins a game with honest intentions, and ends up on a team with a busted/kicked multi, why should the member suffer a loss of points for cheating which they were not aware of and/or not a party to? you lost a game, you lost some points, and you should just move on and chalk it up to experience. good luck, but i don't see what you are proposing, becoming CC law anytime soon... maybe if you suggested something like, "armies belonging to busted multis who are kicked from CC, will be turned into neutrals in all games they are currently involved in", you might get some traction with the idea. furthermore, you might want to go to the suggestion forum with this... good luck... but rethink your position and what you are proposing. my idea is far better...-0

[Hoagy]

NEWS FLASH : Just rechecked the game log....those spots did NOT become neutral, they reverted to the cheater's partner, and that meant he got not only a better position on the map, but also MORE TROOPS on his turn...an unfair advantage that gave that team the game !

it is not a newsflash, it is one of the rules of CC that many people don't like. sorry you had to deal with it, but it is a written rule. furthermore, why punish everyone on the team? often times, people play team games with members they don't know and have never played with before. if that member joins a game with honest intentions, and ends up on a team with a busted/kicked multi, why should the member suffer a loss of points for cheating which they were not aware of and/or not a party to? you lost a game, you lost some points, and you should just move on and chalk it up to experience. good luck, but i don't see what you are proposing, becoming CC law anytime soon... maybe if you suggested something like, "armies belonging to busted multis who are kicked from CC, will be turned into neutrals in all games they are currently involved in", you might get some traction with the idea. furthermore, you might want to go to the suggestion forum with this... good luck... but rethink your position and what you are proposing. my idea is far better...-0

Owenshooter, you are being a bit pedantic about his terminology. When he said 'NEWS FLASH', it was mean't as in 'take note' or 'listen to this, you need to be aware of it', in the way that a lot of people commonly use it; not 'news just in, latest update'.

However, this detracts from the main point. As I said earlier, cheats should not prosper, but I do agree with your point that it is also unfair on the team-mates of the deadbeater. It is these that usually suffer the most when someone deadbeats in a team game.

[owenshooter]

Owenshooter, you are being a bit pedantic about his terminology. When he said 'NEWS FLASH', it was mean't as in 'take note' or 'listen to this, you need to be aware of it', in the way that a lot of people commonly use it; not 'news just in, latest update'.

yes he was, he was unaware of the state of the troops and did not know what the rule was. so, he was giving the community a NEWSFLASH, that busted multis in team games, have their armies turned over to their teammates... a written rule, not a newsflash... perhaps it was News to him, but anyone that plays team games regularly, this has been a very sad state of the rules for quite some time. and again, maybe if he went to suggs with something like, maybe if you suggested something like, "armies belonging to busted multis who are kicked from CC, will be turned into neutrals in all games they are currently involved in", you might get some traction with the idea....-0

[legionbuck]

Owenshooter, you are being a bit pedantic about his terminology. When he said 'NEWS FLASH', it was mean't as in 'take note' or 'listen to this, you need to be aware of it', in the way that a lot of people commonly use it; not 'news just in, latest update'.

yes he was, he was unaware of the state of the troops and did not know what the rule was. so, he was giving the community a NEWSFLASH, that busted multis in team games, have their armies turned over to their teammates... a written rule, not a newsflash... perhaps it was News to him, but anyone that plays team games regularly, this has been a very sad state of the rules for quite some time. and again, maybe if he went to suggs with something like, maybe if you suggested something like, "armies belonging to busted multis who are kicked from CC, will be turned into neutrals in all games they are currently involved in", you might get some traction with the idea....-0

As a matter of fact, I have played numerous team games all the way back to 2005-06 in CC, and never had this kind of BS happen. I wasn't suggesting that the innocent partner of a busted multi be penalized points. Rather, the multi's territories be made neutral, and all points lost by other honest players come from the busted multi's score, and NO points be awarded to a busted multi, his team wins or not !

[Woodruff]

NEWS FLASH : Just rechecked the game log....those spots did NOT become neutral, they reverted to the cheater's partner, and that meant he got not only a better position on the map, but also MORE TROOPS on his turn...an unfair advantage that gave that team the game !

While true, the cheater's partner was not (likely) a partner to the cheating. So to hold him accountable for it would be unfair. The situation is handled as if the partner deadbeated.

Owenshooter, you are being a bit pedantic about his terminology. When he said 'NEWS FLASH', it was mean't as in 'take note' or 'listen to this, you need to be aware of it', in the way that a lot of people commonly use it; not 'news just in, latest update'.

yes he was, he was unaware of the state of the troops and did not know what the rule was. so, he was giving the community a NEWSFLASH, that busted multis in team games, have their armies turned over to their teammates... a written rule, not a newsflash... perhaps it was News to him, but anyone that plays team games regularly, this has been a very sad state of the rules for quite some time. and again, maybe if he went to suggs with something like, maybe if you suggested something like, "armies belonging to busted multis who are kicked from CC, will be turned into neutrals in all games they are currently involved in", you might get some traction with the idea....-0

As a matter of fact, I have played numerous team games all the way back to 2005-06 in CC, and never had this kind of BS happen. I wasn't suggesting that the innocent partner of a busted multi be penalized points. Rather, the multi's territories be made neutral, and all points lost by other honest players come from the busted multi's score, and NO points be awarded to a busted multi, his team wins or not !

But aren't you penalizing the cheater's partner by just making those armies go neutral instead of going to the partner? If the partner is not a part of the cheating, that would be extraordinarily unfair to them (they've already lost their partner, meaning they lose at least 3 "team armies" per turn just from that.

[legionbuck]

NEWS FLASH : Just rechecked the game log....those spots did NOT become neutral, they reverted to the cheater's partner, and that meant he got not only a better position on the map, but also MORE TROOPS on his turn...an unfair advantage that gave that team the game !

While true, the cheater's partner was not (likely) a partner to the cheating. So to hold him accountable for it would be unfair. The situation is handled as if the partner deadbeated.

Owenshooter, you are being a bit pedantic about his terminology. When he said 'NEWS FLASH', it was mean't as in 'take note' or 'listen to this, you need to be aware of it', in the way that a lot of people commonly use it; not 'news just in, latest update'.

yes he was, he was unaware of the state of the troops and did not know what the rule was. so, he was giving the community a NEWSFLASH, that busted multis in team games, have their armies turned over to their teammates... a written rule, not a newsflash... perhaps it was News to him, but anyone that plays team games regularly, this has been a very sad state of the rules for quite some time. and again, maybe if he went to suggs with something like, maybe if you suggested something like, "armies belonging to busted multis who are kicked from CC, will be turned into neutrals in all games they are currently involved in", you might get some traction with the idea....-0

As a matter of fact, I have played numerous team games all the way back to 2005-06 in CC, and never had this kind of BS happen. I wasn't suggesting that the innocent partner of a busted multi be penalized points. Rather, the multi's territories be made neutral, and all points lost by other honest players come from the busted multi's score, and NO points be awarded to a busted multi, his team wins or not !

But aren't you penalizing the cheater's partner by just making those armies go neutral instead of going to the partner? If the partner is not a part of the cheating, that would be extraordinarily unfair to them (they've already lost their partner, meaning they lose at least 3 "team armies" per turn just from that.

It's like football...your team gets called for holding, the whole team gets backed up 10 yards.
Are you saying that it's right for a cheater to get points for his partner having his turf get expanded, getting more armies, and then taking all the honest players out ?

That's why I said all points awarded should come from the busted party. NO honest player should lose points to a cheater, since it's the winning team that gets em.

[edsdad]

After everything is said and done,still ain't right to penalize the honest players.Maybe it's time to re-think the rule.

[AAFitz]

Lack is refining this one as far as I know...its a new system meant to penalize cheaters, and the team consequense is just that...

that wont help the current games I know, but rest asured he is working on it. and there will be a warning coming up from what he posted, and possibly some other change.... its a tough one to be fair to singles, and teams alike.

You dont want to penalize the partner, and you dont want to penalize the other teams. As far as the cheater getting points, thats irrelevant... they were kicked from the site, so any points are their last anyways.

[Woodruff]

But aren't you penalizing the cheater's partner by just making those armies go neutral instead of going to the partner? If the partner is not a part of the cheating, that would be extraordinarily unfair to them (they've already lost their partner, meaning they lose at least 3 "team armies" per turn just from that.

It's like football...your team gets called for holding, the whole team gets backed up 10 yards.

The difference in my view is that a football team has the exact same long-term goals and methods, whereas two individuals teaming up together for one game do not in any way have the same long-term goals nor methods. An example of my view of things would be Manny Ramirez...he's currently suspended for 50 games because HE CHEATED, but his team (the Dodgers) have not been penalized at all because they were not party to Manny's cheating.

Are you saying that it's right for a cheater to get points for his partner having his turf get expanded, getting more armies, and then taking all the honest players out ?

I would be perfectly ok with the cheater not getting any points for the win but having his partner get the legitimate points he has earned...that would be a decent fix in my view. IF the cheater's partner still got the armies of the cheater (to keep the game in balance).

That's why I said all points awarded should come from the busted party. NO honest player should lose points to a cheater, since it's the winning team that gets em.

I don't agree with all points coming from the busted party...that isn't legitimate to me because if the cheater and his partner are NCOs and the two opponents he defeated are officers, it hardly seems fair (to the cheater's partner) that the cheater's partner only gets a minimal amount of points when he essentially won a 2-on-1 match against higher-ranked players.

[Phr34ky]

Looking at this from a strictly cost-benefit perspective, wouldn't it be better (in a 3-team or 4-team game) to penalize one person (the cheater's partner) than to have up to 6 people lose points?

On another note, isn't this what ratings were designed for? If someone has a low rating, there's probably a reason. Don't join team games with them...

[Woodruff]

Looking at this from a strictly cost-benefit perspective, wouldn't it be better (in a 3-team or 4-team game) to penalize one person (the cheater's partner) than to have up to 6 people lose points?

I'm not of the opinion that those other teams ARE being penalized. In fact, I'm of the opinion that those other teams are now at an ADVANTAGE. The cheater's partner (as a sole member of his team) will get only 3 armies per turn, ignoring bonuses. In a two-team game, the other team is getting 6 armies per turn, ignoring bonuses. It's essentially 2-on-1. For 3 and 4-teams, it becomes even more drastic.

[oVo]

Those aren't exactly "cheater points" now are they? As they did not actually cheat
against you and the busted player was ejected for breaking the rules elsewhere.

These are cheater points, as cjcilino and ectosport secretly teamed up
to eliminate the other six unsuspecting players.

[legionbuck]

Irrelevant ???? Like hell ! The cheater grabbed points he wasn't entitled to, and it sounds like the powers that be MAY be working on fixing this for later games...but that still means we lost points. That means being ripped off for points stands, and that is BS !

[legionbuck]

Those aren't exactly "cheater points" now are they? As they did not actually cheat
against you and the busted player was ejected for breaking the rules elsewhere.

These are cheater points, as cjcilino and ectosport secretly teamed up
to eliminate the other six unsuspecting players.

If the offender broke the rules...in our game, or elsewhere...that's cheating, period.

[owenshooter]

Looking at this from a strictly cost-benefit perspective, wouldn't it be better (in a 3-team or 4-team game) to penalize one person (the cheater's partner) than to have up to 6 people lose points?

i am being penalized in 2 games i am in, because one of the members of my team was kicked from CC for language in game chat and cumulative offenses. within my game he did not display any foul language, etc, and it is one of the few times i had ever played a team game with him. i am now going to lose 2 games that were even, without the other team doing anything. i am not sure what should be done about it. but the situation is more than unfair for unsuspecting team members that have no idea what is going on. and now the other people in the games are left wondering how he "cheated" and if i myself am a cheater by association.-0

[Woodruff]

Irrelevant ???? Like hell ! The cheater grabbed points he wasn't entitled to, and it sounds like the powers that be MAY be working on fixing this for later games...but that still means we lost points. That means being ripped off for points stands, and that is BS !

Dude...I hate to put it this way, but you're a corporal first class. Does it really matter? Again, I will say that the team WITHOUT THE CHEATER has now gained a definite ADVANTAGE in the game. They are NOT at a disadvantage.

[owenshooter]

Irrelevant ???? Like hell ! The cheater grabbed points he wasn't entitled to, and it sounds like the powers that be MAY be working on fixing this for later games...but that still means we lost points. That means being ripped off for points stands, and that is BS !

Dude...I hate to put it this way, but you're a corporal first class. Does it really matter? Again, I will say that the team WITHOUT THE CHEATER has now gained a definite ADVANTAGE in the game. They are NOT at a disadvantage.

i agree fully with woodruff... perhaps if you are not well versed in team games you may not be able to exploit this obvious advantage. but i doubt many on CC can't win in a 3v2 or 4v3 scenario. the team without the cheater gains an definitive advantage...-0

[legionbuck]

Irrelevant ???? Like hell ! The cheater grabbed points he wasn't entitled to, and it sounds like the powers that be MAY be working on fixing this for later games...but that still means we lost points. That means being ripped off for points stands, and that is BS !

Dude...I hate to put it this way, but you're a corporal first class. Does it really matter? Again, I will say that the team WITHOUT THE CHEATER has now gained a definite ADVANTAGE in the game. They are NOT at a disadvantage.

We aren't discussing my rank, and I did make it all the way to Capt. before the rank restructure busted me back lower to Sgt, 1st class.That , and I am no noob in CC been here for a couple of years.

So you get the idea why the busted cheater team got the advantage, check the game log for 5022233. The partner ( I blame him in NO way) got all of his cheater partner's turf and took his turn. That allowed him to take BOTH my partner and myself out, and we had sets. Soon as he did that, he finished off the other team. Had he not gotten the extra turf, and troops, he wouldn't have had enough troops to "cascade effect" the game. THAT was the advantage he gained.