The spirit of Tolkien’s Middle Earth

by **Kabanellas** on Sun Jul 05, 2009 2:29 am

The spirit of Tolkien’s Middle Earth

I’ve asked before for a map of Tolkien’s Middle Earth. I was told then that a map was already made but taken out of ‘circuit’ because of copyright issues.

To overcome this difficulty the map ‘Midgard’ was created – made out with a look that leads back to Tolkien’s world.

Having played it for a few times, I still miss the all spirit of Tolkien’s Middle Earth.
Where are the Elves, the Dwarfs, the Towers of great power (Bard Ur / Isengard), the lost tunnels of Moria...? We could change the names but we could preserve the Spirit.

So, what I intend to do – if you guys support the idea- is a map (free of copyright issues, of course) that really takes us to the Middle Earth atmosphere. Where all those juicy details appear and are built together to be a part of the gameplay.

K

by **petrie000** on Sun Jul 05, 2009 5:11 am

okay, not exactly about the original posters idea, but same general subject.

what, exactly, is the copyright issue? is is just map, or does it cover place names as well? i guess what i'm asking is can we generate our own maps based off the events of the books/movies, or are those covered by the copyright restrictions?

by **TaCktiX** on Sun Jul 05, 2009 7:12 am

The very property and use of anything Tolkien-related, particularly to the Lord of the Rings, can be sued for copyright infringement. Creating a likeness with all the names changed may be lower on the radar, but it can still be prosecuted, and they have richer lawyers than CC does.

by **Kabanellas** on Sun Jul 05, 2009 8:09 am

To avoid problems such as those, I would make a total different map design, with different names and locations.

I’d keep the races – Dwarfs, Elves, Orcs, those came from ancient Scandinavian mythology and transcend Tolkien’s work. On some details I would just be inventive…. i.e. The Rohirrim I would call The Horsemen… and so on…

So, no analogy could be pointed at. But the feeling would stay.

K

by **MrBenn** on Mon Jul 06, 2009 2:28 pm

The issue is less about the copyright of Tolkiens work, but more to do with the fact that Hasbro have a licensed version of LOTR risk - which I am assuming is the reason that Middle Earth was taken down at the same time as the old Classic...

by **petrie000** on Mon Jul 06, 2009 10:07 pm

i was just wondering if, instead of a Middle Earth map, someone could do a series of maps loosely based off the events of the books... the Mines of Moria, Helms Deep, Pellenor Field... you get the idea.

by **Kabanellas** on Tue Jul 07, 2009 5:33 am

humm.. that's a good idea - the books Unfinished Tales and The Silmarillion have lots of juicy details. Though the copyright problem would subsist, I think.

by **petrie000** on Tue Jul 07, 2009 6:46 am

well, if you're looking for some maps with that same sort of feeling, maybe you can do a series based of non-specific fantasy staples.

by **TaCktiX** on Tue Jul 07, 2009 6:59 am

MrBenn wrote:The issue is less about the copyright of Tolkiens work, but more to do with the fact that Hasbro have a licensed version of LOTR risk - which I am assuming is the reason that Middle Earth was taken down at the same time as the old Classic...

Hasbro holds a license to the MOVIE version of LotR. Thanks to the weird way copyright law works, those are separate and independent entities. If by some witchcraft we obtained a license from the Saul Zaentz Company (they hold the rights to LotR, the book), both Hasbro and New Line Cinema would still have no legal grounds as long as our gameplay and graphics were sufficiently different from Hasbro's.

by **Kabanellas** on Tue Jul 07, 2009 12:01 pm

ok.. I really need to start drawing some ideas now. Just to get a bearing.....

by **TheBro** on Tue Jul 07, 2009 12:23 pm

It was in the darkest depths of Mordor, I met a girl so fair.
But Gollum, the evil one, crept up and slipped away with her, her, her.

Make Led Zeppelin territories.

by **oaktown** on Tue Jul 07, 2009 12:42 pm

petrie000 wrote:i was just wondering if, instead of a Middle Earth map, someone could do a series of maps loosely based off the events of the books... the Mines of Moria, Helms Deep, Pellenor Field... you get the idea.

As soon as you start using the same names it is a derivative work and subject to copyright.

Just because Led Zeppelin reused the words doesn't mean we can. Zeppelin's use, while derivative, predated and does not interfere with Hasbro's exclusive rights to use the words in their games.

If TackTiX is correct and we could secure the rights from the publisher, Hasbro could still sue. I'm not saying they would win the suit, but they could make the court battle expensive enough to drive CC out of business forever.

Somebody could, of course, make a map with elves and wizards and dragons and goblins and put them in a non-Tolkien setting, since Tolkien didn't invent the use of either term. "Orc" however is a term first coined by Tolkien to refer to a goblin-like creature, so that's out. In the end I suspect we'd end up with something that doesn't satisfy everyone's craving for a proper LOTR map, just as we currently don't have something that passes for a decent classic map.

by **Kabanellas** on Tue Jul 07, 2009 5:52 pm

Yes Bro, Led Zeppelin rule – ‘Ramble On’

….Oak, as far as I know ORC comes from the latin word Orcus (one of the names of God Pluto – The Lord Of The Underworld)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orcus

We could drop the word Orc and rename them Orcus or even… Gorks!

by **Kabanellas** on Fri Jul 17, 2009 11:41 am

News are coming up very, very soon!!

I've got something on the making right about to come out.

by **Kabanellas** on Tue Jul 21, 2009 2:09 pm

News in the following link:

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=241&t=92583

by **neanderpaul14** on Tue Jul 21, 2009 7:14 pm

Kabanellas wrote:To avoid problems such as those, I would make a total different map design, with different names and locations.

I’d keep the races – Dwarfs, Elves, Orcs, those came from ancient Scandinavian mythology and transcend Tolkien’s work. On some details I would just be inventive…. i.e. The Rohirrim I would call The Horsemen… and so on…

So, no analogy could be pointed at. But the feeling would stay.

K

Not sure about Orcs, but Dwarfs and Elves are certainly not anyone's intellectual property.