Nationalized Health Care

[Snorri1234]

If they could achieve some kind of system which would not cross the lines that we know this one does that would be fine, but it may not be possible.

Which lines, specifically?

All I have heard from you are accusations that this will lead to some kind of socialized takeover of our country. Seems that was the cry back when Medicare was introduced. Funny how we haven't suddenly become communist as a result and most of our parents/grandparents (the generation who fought WWII, etc. -- not exactly liberal patsies!) were all pretty happy to have it!

Specifically the Bill is too damn long. I am for less bureaucracy and Government intrusion into my life, not 1000 pages more of it. I don't trust it because it is purposefully written in such a way so that we are not supposed to understand it. And for the record the fact that we have Medicare, and that the government is proposing to take MORE control, is evidence of increasing socialization in and of itself...

I understand your concerns but the fact is that a simple solution is way too hard to get trough. This bill is not ideal and I don't like things about it, but to me it seems like the best possible thing to get right now. It will cost less and ensure a better level of health for the entire country, so why not back it and then go lobby for a simplification of the regulations and a streamlining of the system?

[HapSmo19]

This bill is not ideal and I don't like things about it,....

Hey Nederlander, who gives a shit what you do and don't like about this bill?

[Snorri1234]

This bill is not ideal and I don't like things about it,....

Hey Nederlander, who gives a shit what you do and don't like about this bill?

Hey retard, who gives a shit about anything you have ever said?

[HapSmo19]

Hey retard, who gives a shit about anything you have ever said?

I was merely suggesting that you may have an unhealthy obsession with american politics when you're not choking on a penis.

[Snorri1234]

Hey retard, who gives a shit about anything you have ever said?

I was merely suggesting that you may have an unhealthy obsession with american politics when you're not choking on a penis.

I'm gonna keep this brief because I know you have a ton of cocks to gobble today; I am familiar with american healthcare more than I should be because you morons spread your retarded bullshit all over the internet. I love to tell moronic wangs like you that they're wrong, and US healthcare is the easiest way to do it.

[thegreekdog]

I oppose government-run and controlled health insurance because the potential risks outweigh the potential advantages. I also think there can be a plan that can potentially solve the problems in the US healthcare system without the government running said system. I won't go into details since there is plenty of my posts in other threads on this subject.

[PLAYER57832]

I oppose government-run and controlled health insurance because the potential risks outweigh the potential advantages. I also think there can be a plan that can potentially solve the problems in the US healthcare system without the government running said system. I won't go into details since there is plenty of my posts in other threads on this subject.

Except a National system is not in the current bill, only a national option. The option would only take over if it were a better choice for people. Else, they are free to choose the private system.

So... either you are correct, private is better and the national option will just be another option.

OR, the public option is better and then .. well, if its better, why not?

[thegreekdog]

Except a National system is not in the current bill, only a national option. The option would only take over if it were a better choice for people. Else, they are free to choose the private system.

So... either you are correct, private is better and the national option will just be another option.

OR, the public option is better and then .. well, if its better, why not?

We've discussed this before. The problem is that the question is not whether the public option is better, it's whether the public option eventually becomes the only option because of the provisions in the law (which we've also discussed before).

[PLAYER57832]

Except a National system is not in the current bill, only a national option. The option would only take over if it were a better choice for people. Else, they are free to choose the private system.

So... either you are correct, private is better and the national option will just be another option.

OR, the public option is better and then .. well, if its better, why not?

We've discussed this before. The problem is that the question is not whether the public option is better, it's whether the public option eventually becomes the only option because of the provisions in the law (which we've also discussed before).

I see, so you don't care if its better or not, just as long as its not public.

Sorry, but that just does not make sense. If its better, its BETTER. What is wrong with that?

[thegreekdog]

Except a National system is not in the current bill, only a national option. The option would only take over if it were a better choice for people. Else, they are free to choose the private system.

So... either you are correct, private is better and the national option will just be another option.

OR, the public option is better and then .. well, if its better, why not?

We've discussed this before. The problem is that the question is not whether the public option is better, it's whether the public option eventually becomes the only option because of the provisions in the law (which we've also discussed before).

I see, so you don't care if its better or not, just as long as its not public.

Sorry, but that just does not make sense. If its better, its BETTER. What is wrong with that?

It's not better because it's not an option. I don't have a problem with having a public option. I have a problem with calling a public option an option when it's the only option. That's not an option at all.

[PLAYER57832]

It's not better because it's not an option. I don't have a problem with having a public option. I have a problem with calling a public option an option when it's the only option. That's not an option at all.

And we go back to square one. The private insurers are going to be able to issue policies that meet some stricter guidelines than those currently in place (i.e. very little).

You say this is not really going to be an option because the government can offer better policies cheaper and therefore will outcompete the private policies. Competition is what you support. Why is it wrong if the government happens to be the winner?

Its not my job to ensure that insurance companies stay in business. Its my job to get the best care I can for my kids. What is wrong with the government doing it, if they do it better?

[thegreekdog]

And we go back to square one. The private insurers are going to be able to issue policies that meet some stricter guidelines than those currently in place (i.e. very little).

You say this is not really going to be an option because the government can offer better policies cheaper and therefore will outcompete the private policies. Competition is what you support. Why is it wrong if the government happens to be the winner?

Its not my job to ensure that insurance companies stay in business. Its my job to get the best care I can for my kids. What is wrong with the government doing it, if they do it better?

Yeesh... It's almost as if you don't really read what I type... Maybe a numbered list will help...

(1) In the current healthcare bill, people who have private health insurance on Day 1 are permitted to keep said private insurance. However, if a person loses his or her job, whether voluntarily or involuntarily, he or she loses any option to purchase private health insurance. As such, there really is no option. With that in mind, let's focus on #2 (and then #3).

(2) Government health insurance is "cheaper" in the same sense as it is "free." In other words, you're assuming that we are going to pay less for the same quality healthcare. That is absolutely false. We're either going to pay the same for the same healthcare or we're going to pay less for less quality. Now, you may ask, "But, thegreekdog, why isn't it free?" I will reply that you and everyone else will pay for their healthcare in taxes.

(3) Once the government has "control" of health insurance because people lose their jobs and because government health insurance becomes better because it's "free," the government will have free reign to run the healthcare system into the ground in the same fashion as it has done to education, postal services, and social security. Our government's track record on these types of things is not good.