owenshooter

[azezzo]

in my opinion owenshooter can be annoying, i for 1 do not agree with everything he has to say, but i do support his right to speak his mind. I feel that the bans handed out by the mods the last few months are not handed out consistently, as i have seen various members, and even a mod or two, that have done things that warranted warnings and bans. based upon the "current" community guidelines. I also disagree with an escalating punishment system, i dont see how multiple minor infractions should equal a major offense.

I have received a 24 hour ban recently, and now even though i try not to be inflammatory, or controversial, i still now worry that i may say something that will get me another, longer ban, for something insignificant.

I realize that C.C. can institute and enforce any rules and punishments they see fit, there truely is not freedom of speech here.
But i do not believe that the forums have been improved for the better since i joined back in 2007, there seems to be an ever growing feeling of "us and them" between the members and the mods.

I joined in year 2 of C.C. I wish i could have been here for the inaugural year, the so called site that lackattack created because he liked to play risk with his friends was a great idea. My first year it was a more friendly and open site. It seems that lack has taken a more hands off approach, letting volunteer mods handle things.

I still dont understand why the forums is such a major concern of the c.c. team if its true that only 3% of its members regularly visit it. Then i dont understand how whats said here can be that detrimental to the site.

[King_Herpes]

I think everybody needs to just relax and make themselves a nice root beer float. Owen is always with us in our hearts, he wouldn't want to see the forum community in such dissaray. It's very unbecoming and goes against everything he stands for -6cd

[targetman377]

i would say that if you say owen shooter any one who cant see that he was a troll/ baiter (I am not saying here that he was not baited but) that does not make my point invalid. also i think that all cases like this should be private.

I just have to say this to you target. And I am not picking on you, ok? BUT I consider what you are doing to be trolling/baiting. You continue to post two liners without much substance or thought provocation. Now, DO YOU consider what you are doing to be baiting? I doubt it.... but If I were a mod and gave you a vacation would you think that it was fair? And remember that there would be no one to stick up for you until after you came back. Because CC wouldn't tell anyone.
Could this be what happened to owen???

i am not baiting anyone here at all. the things i post are just too the point. and i do think ok. but what i would say is that they have a warning system here if you know you are pushing the boundary then you cannot complain about the rules that we all follow. we all have the same guidelines so there fore no one can not complain about getting banned you deserve it or in the case "i would say yes you break the rules same goes for me too. i am no different.

[General Mojo]

I think everybody needs to just relax and make themselves a nice root beer float. Owen is always with us in our hearts, he wouldn't want to see the forum community in such dissaray. It's very unbecoming and goes against everything he stands for -6cd

Stop being so racist, Herpes.

[Woodruff]

Isn't everyone a bigot in their own unique way?

Everyone is prejudiced in some way, yes...it's impossible to avoid. However no...not everyone is a bigot.

[Woodruff]

Excellent post, Juan.

In light of your questions about mpjh, both owen and myself submitted e-tickets about his activity in the forums, and were told that they were taking our complaints into account and that anything that would happen would be internal. I don't totally mind the fact that reprimanding someone with a position on the site would happen in private, but the response we received + some of the reasons for owen's ban = contradictions.

And you're not the only ones, either. From what I've personally experienced, posts reported on mpjh seem to be quite simply ignored entirely.

[Georgerx7di]

I'm a school teacher, for those who don't know, (surprising right). And I see how discipline looks from a teachers point of view. People may sit there and harp over how fair a punishment is, or whether a teacher did the right thing. From our perspective though, that is not the focus of our job. Discipline is handled when it has to be. Its not the goal of our job to discipline students. Discipline is a distraction from our "real" job, teaching. We try to handle the problem, get it to stop, and be done with it. If we spent all of our time focusing on discipline, then we could never actually teach anything.

C&A is not the only thing that admin has to do around here. And dealing with one member all day everyday, would bring operations to a hault. I think if owen had just stopped making c&a threads, stopped complaining about the mods, and just played the damn game, they would have left him alone. They have other shit to do. '

It's just like at any job. Your boss doesn't want to hear your sorry, and doesn't care why it happened. Just fix the damn problem, and don't take up any more of his time, so he can focus on the 50,000 other things he has to do, and he won't fire you.

[the.killing.44]

Sorry George, but your post was 2/3 "I'm a teacher this is how I look at discipline and it has nothing to do with CC" and the middle paragraph was the only thing remotely close to being of importance to the topic. It seems you're saying that they rightfully banned him because he was taking up too much of the moderators' time. Uhh, you're telling him to get out of the forum because he's too much of a fixture? The mods have "other shit to do," huh. I forgot making the CC forums a better place, which includes looking at (rightfully) reported posts, no matter who reported them, wasn't applicable to their daily "shit." Plus it wasn't even C&A that housed the reports—admins dutifully go through the e-tickets, which are the mode of reporting posts.

Re-reading your third paragraph, you're telling me that lack can't consistently keep updates coming because owen was reporting too many posts? That is so wrong on so many levels. 50,000 other things to do, eh? owen was that much of a burden on the admins that he needed to be banned for half a years so they can get back to their oh-so-prone-to-distraction activities, previously hindered by owen's presence.

Sorry, but that post was 100% mod fodder and 0% looking at owen's situation.

[Skittles!]

Uh. Everyone knows that Lack is the coder.. So what other important things do the admins/mods do? If they volunteer for it, and then it is part of their job, then yeah, they should do it, and not have bias in it. Owen reported posts that most likely would be true, especially if it went to mibi, mpjh, and whatever tool there is, as they bait and flame more than many other people in the forums.

[chaosfactor]

You know exactly where all the banned hang out Owen, and right this moment we are having a particularly good shoot em up flame festival with another board.

Feel free to drop into departures and book your-self a flight on P.O.A international airlines.

[nagerous]

Excellent post, Juan.

In light of your questions about mpjh, both owen and myself submitted e-tickets about his activity in the forums, and were told that they were taking our complaints into account and that anything that would happen would be internal. I don't totally mind the fact that reprimanding someone with a position on the site would happen in private, but the response we received + some of the reasons for owen's ban = contradictions.

And you're not the only ones, either. From what I've personally experienced, posts reported on mpjh seem to be quite simply ignored entirely.

I'm not sure, he has probably been told to avoid this thread and not get involved in more baiting, which he has managed so far.

[Woodruff]

Excellent post, Juan.

In light of your questions about mpjh, both owen and myself submitted e-tickets about his activity in the forums, and were told that they were taking our complaints into account and that anything that would happen would be internal. I don't totally mind the fact that reprimanding someone with a position on the site would happen in private, but the response we received + some of the reasons for owen's ban = contradictions.

And you're not the only ones, either. From what I've personally experienced, posts reported on mpjh seem to be quite simply ignored entirely.

I'm not sure, he has probably been told to avoid this thread and not get involved in more baiting, which he has managed so far.

If it were a recent behavior only on his part, I would agree.

[Georgerx7di]

Sorry George, but your post was 2/3 "I'm a teacher this is how I look at discipline and it has nothing to do with CC" and the middle paragraph was the only thing remotely close to being of importance to the topic. It seems you're saying that they rightfully banned him because he was taking up too much of the moderators' time. Uhh, you're telling him to get out of the forum because he's too much of a fixture? The mods have "other shit to do," huh. I forgot making the CC forums a better place, which includes looking at (rightfully) reported posts, no matter who reported them, wasn't applicable to their daily "shit." Plus it wasn't even C&A that housed the reports—admins dutifully go through the e-tickets, which are the mode of reporting posts.

Re-reading your third paragraph, you're telling me that lack can't consistently keep updates coming because owen was reporting too many posts? That is so wrong on so many levels. 50,000 other things to do, eh? owen was that much of a burden on the admins that he needed to be banned for half a years so they can get back to their oh-so-prone-to-distraction activities, previously hindered by owen's presence.

Sorry, but that post was 100% mod fodder and 0% looking at owen's situation.

You hit the nail right on the head. He was taking up too much of their time. A "disproportionate amount" as andy said in his explanation. They're not "rightfully reported" and his complaints were not "making the forums a better place". It was just him complaining in a very persuasive way because he needed something to do. Just play the game and let them do their job.

I don't know how you cannot see the analogy. If owen's having problems with so many people on this site, if he's offended by so many things, if he doesn't like so many things about this site, then he is partly responsible for that. He's partly responsible for conflicts he has with other players. He's partly responsible for being so sensitive and seeing things that are not there. He's partly responsible for disliking so many things on this site.

It's not helpful to just complain about everything. There are so many other people on this site. Admin should not be spending half their time, or even 10% of their time on one player. He was generating so much work for them to, with so little for him or the site to gain from it (hence, waste of time).

And he was never going to stop, they were never going to punish enough people, or change enough things on this site so that he could be satisfied, and then just play. You see, making the posts in C&A, and pming the mods, was not the means, it was the end in itself. This was what gave him pleasure. He enjoyed complaining. He looked for new things to offend him, or new things to be wrong. (and don't give me that jack ass bullshit "you don't know what someones thinking", because sometimes you do). People don't spend all their time making complain threads unless that is the thing that they enjoy doing.

If your favorite pass time is wasting someone's time, then they will eventually retaliate. The purpose of this site if for you to come on here and play a game, not to come here and post in C&A everyday, or pm the mods every day. C&A is there for the rare occasion when a problem comes up. And if you have a problem everyday, then you are the problem, not the 100 things that you are complaining about.

[Blitzaholic]

georgerx7di for mod

[elfish_lad]

Let's try this again (not so late at night):

It's just like at any job. Your boss doesn't want to hear your sorry, and doesn't care why it happened. Just fix the damn problem, and don't take up any more of his time, so he can focus on the 50,000 other things he has to do, and he won't fire you.

I agree with this. It is the same in my job except worse, the bosses keep changing. It is up to me to figure this out if I want them to snag my articles.

It is also clear that this site has really grown and changed. I spent some time reading through some old posts on this board from 06. Things aren't the same and will keep changing. Posters and Admins have to change with it.

But what I keep hearing a few posters say (with owenshooter at the head of that line in my estimation) is a concern that the rules aren't being applied evenly to all. I don't know if that is true or not. If it was something I felt I know I would be up in arms about it.

Cheers.

E.

[nagerous]

georgerx7di for mod

You think people who act like jackasses and doo doo browns should be mods?

[the.killing.44]

georgerx7di for mod

You think people who act like jackasses and doo doo browns should be mods?

No, but Optimus must…

George, your points don't make any sense in light of his situation.
"Just play the game" — then why the f*ck are there forums? owen was one of, if not the, best poster CC has—sorry, had.
"It's not helpful to just complain about everything" — well the things he was complaining about weren't spurious; they were CC's issues that have yet to be resolved, including the member linked in my first sentence of this post.
"He's party responsible for conflicts he has…" — so? The other people, who share equal or more responsibility for those "conflicts" aren't banned. Why should owen be?
"The mods were spending 10% of their time on owen" — are you joking?
"making complain threads … is the thing that they enjoy doing" — owen enjoyed CC. owen enjoyed the forums. owen wanted the CC forums to be a better forum, one more like the one he joined a couple years ago. The mods and ass-suckers like you aren't helping the environment he was trying to strive, or backtrack, towards. Find me some "complain threads," really. owen's C&A threads were mainly on bigots, and the posts I assume to which you're referring are his on mpjh, the most fucked-up mod to join TeamCC; khazalid, someone against whom I don't have anything personally, but owen rightfully held something against him for some of his comments; and the other admins, mods, and posters who he felt were deteriorating CC's atmosphere.
"[I made this part big, bold, and underlined]" — uhh, I guess that's true? Not that it has anything to do with owen's situation—he really only had one general complaint about consistency of TeamCC, not the "100" you reference. I highly suggest you actually take a look at owen's posts in context, not only in their respective threads, but the forums as whole, stemming back to DM's banning. Your posts come across as undeniably ignorant to reality but rather, as Blitz astutely pointed out, mod-worthy. Also, you said you were a schoolteacher. Well, I sure as hell hope you're not an English teacher…

[Snowgun]

I’d like to pick up on this for a second. I am a freelance writer.

Blah Blah, Blah Blah.....

I got enough drama as it is.

Peace and thanks for your thoughtful responses in this thread teach.

Lad

Did anyone else just skip over this monologue due to "eye glaze"? elfish, i hope you don't quit your day job unless your writing for a cure for insomnia.

Back on topic. I totally see what George is saying, not spending time on people who stir up shit when that's not the REAL point of this site, but Killing has a point that Owen for the MOST part was a proletariat champion for the forums.

However, I can see that MAYBE owen pushed it too far, in the mod's mind of " why are you constantly bombarding us with crap". Is 6 mo ban too much? maybe, but it wasn't his first time... I see this as more of a punishment fitting the crime problem than a "is he guilty or not" issue.. IMHO

BTW, No fucking english teacher would have Schrodinger's equ as his avitar.

[elfish_lad]

Let's try this again snow (not so late at night):

Why the need to act like a douche? If you don't like what I am saying, skip it. If you think it a joke roll your eyes and move on. But my original frustration with your reference to my (clearly) late night and long winded post was that my frustration was not with you but rather what, as a new member here, am I allowed to do about it?

Any other site I mock you back and off we go to more important things. How about here? Hmm... guess I'll just find out as we go.

And for the record, ownshooter and I didn't always connect, that is for sure. But I hope he comes back to the board and as a new member here I choose to trust that he got a six month board ban for reasons that are fair and consistent.

E.

[Chariot of Fire]

Has anyone taken time to think that if roles were reversed (i.e. owen was a mod) how many unjust bans would have been meted out? What's good for the goose etc etc. I'm not citing this as justification for his punishment - that matter is exclusively in the domain of the mods whose knowledge of the facts at hand surpasses that of anyone else and as such should be respected - but it's a scenario that bears some weight given the circumstances.

Over the years I'd like to have contributed far more than I have done to the forums, yet was deterred by certain individuals who see something inflammatory in every remark and thus turn what may have been a civilised discussion into one of puerile accusations with little or no merit.

Perhaps the forums will become a friendlier place when the policing is left to the individuals assigned to the task - public opinion will determine that after some time. For now all we do know is that one cannot please all the people all of the time.

[elfish_lad]

One more time:

I think I agree with what you are saying CoF.

E.

[notyou2]

Has anyone taken time to think that if roles were reversed (i.e. owen was a mod) how many unjust bans would have been meted out? What's good for the goose etc etc. I'm not citing this as justification for his punishment - that matter is exclusively in the domain of the mods whose knowledge of the facts at hand surpasses that of anyone else and as such should be respected - but it's a scenario that bears some weight given the circumstances.

Over the years I'd like to have contributed far more than I have done to the forums, yet was deterred by certain individuals who see something inflammatory in every remark and thus turn what may have been a civilised discussion into one of puerile accusations with little or no merit.

Perhaps the forums will become a friendlier place when the policing is left to the individuals assigned to the task - public opinion will determine that after some time. For now all we do know is that one cannot please all the people all of the time.

That's understandable what you are saying, but my understanding is that most of his complaints were deemed valid. So the man complains, mostly about racial slurs aimed at him, the people get a warning, and he gets banned. Is that fair?

[Gypsys Kiss]

Has anyone taken time to think that if roles were reversed (i.e. owen was a mod) how many unjust bans would have been meted out? What's good for the goose etc etc. I'm not citing this as justification for his punishment - that matter is exclusively in the domain of the mods whose knowledge of the facts at hand surpasses that of anyone else and as such should be respected - but it's a scenario that bears some weight given the circumstances.

Over the years I'd like to have contributed far more than I have done to the forums, yet was deterred by certain individuals who see something inflammatory in every remark and thus turn what may have been a civilised discussion into one of puerile accusations with little or no merit.

Perhaps the forums will become a friendlier place when the policing is left to the individuals assigned to the task - public opinion will determine that after some time. For now all we do know is that one cannot please all the people all of the time.

That's understandable what you are saying, but my understanding is that most of his complaints were deemed valid. So the man complains, mostly about racial slurs aimed at him, the people get a warning, and he gets banned. Is that fair?

You cant have spurious complaints that are valid. It just dont work like that.

[squishyg]

whoa, I missed a lot this week...

[nagerous]

.

elf don't edit your posts just because of minor criticism, I think your posts are interesting especially how you highlighted how General Discussion has changed.