Logic dictates that there is a God!

[vtmarik]

GOD EXISTS, NO QUESTIONS NEEDED

Since non-existence is more perfect than existence, God doesn't exist.

[jay_a2j]

backglass... no one's "forcing" anything. Don't tell me some crazy Christian comes to your house and logs you on to CC everyday with a gun to your head! You choose to enter the threads. You are forcing it on yourself.

Thanks for actually READING my post again jay...you truly have blinders on.

• Public school teaching religious beliefs (intelligent design).
• Commandments & scriptures at courthouses and other public institutions.

They have been there for decades and now all the sudden its forcing,yeah ok

Prayer before scholastic sporting events.

Religious wordings being placed on our currency.

Shall I go on? THAT is shoving it down throats.

Actually all of this stuff has been in effect for a long time and now in the past decade or so its a problem. I think the problem is the progressive movement.

[vtmarik]

I love how progressives get slammed by the right.

Shall we break down why?

Progressive = Progress + ive

Progress is the process by which change occurs in a positive, additive, or transformative manner, "ive" is a english suffix denoting a membership of a group similar to the suffix "ist"

The Right hates not progressives, but progress. Change scares them partially because they are lazy, but mostly because change means that the old ways are going to cease to exist. Hardcore adherents to the old ways fight this as best they can but, in the end, they usually lose.

I now return you to your regularly scheduled tautologies.

[hecter]

You know nothing about science. Life came from amino acids, which formed and bonded and became bigger and bigger untill you have a little micro organism. That then became bigger and bigger untill you now have all the organisms that you have today. You also forget, what created the "God" that you worship.

[vtmarik]

You know nothing about science. Life came from amino acids, which formed and bonded and became bigger and bigger untill you have a little micro organism. That then became bigger and bigger untill you now have all the organisms that you have today. You also forget, what created the "God" that you worship.

And remember, the theory of evolution is not a theory of the creation of life, it is a theory for the progression of biodiversity and genetic drift.

[hecter]

Why of course vtmarik, how could I forget. Thank you for stating that for me.

[jay_a2j]

The Right hates not progressives, but progress. Change scares them partially because they are lazy, but mostly because change means that the old ways are going to cease to exist.

Lazy eh? WELFARE was developed after WWII. And the more we "progress" the more people pile on the FREE HANDOUT mobile. You have got to be kidding. People are FAR more lazy today then they were at any point in US history. Thats progress for ya! Wake up VT.




hecter my dear boy, where did these amino acids come from, hold on.... don't tell me. They have always existed. And these amino acids created all the stuff floating around in the universe! This is exactly why the legalization of pot is a bad idea.

[vtmarik]

Lazy eh? WELFARE was developed after WWII. And the more we "progress" the more people pile on the FREE HANDOUT mobile. You have got to be kidding. People are FAR more lazy today then they were at any point in US history. Thats progress for ya! Wake up VT.

Oh yes, I forgot, it's all welfare's fault that the country is so divided. Not evangelicals trying to shove religion everywhere it doesn't belong. It's kind of scary when literalists get into politics when they don't even believe that the earth revolves around the Sun. Yes of course, it's welfare's fault.

Blame the poor for being poor. Let's lock them away in debtor's prison.

hecter my dear boy, where did these amino acids come from, hold on.... don't tell me. They have always existed. And these amino acids created all the stuff floating around in the universe! This is exactly why the legalization of pot is a bad idea.

Allow me to answer for you hecter.

We don't know. But amino acids coming into sudden existence (which has to do with proteinoid fusion and other processes you would have learned about had you paid attention in your biology class) is just as sound an argument as a all-knowing, all-encompassing God that somehow existed before there was even existence itself. If you'd like to hear one biologist's theory on it (unless you're afraid that his status as an atheist would affect you) read Darwin's Dangerous Idea by Daniel C. Dennett. He is the exception to the rule "There are no atheists in foxholes."

And for a third item to add to the menu, a fair review of the Ontological Argument:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqkqqoDPWac

[hecter]

thanks again vtmarik

[geegel]

I'm going past the 134 pages of theological debate and respond to the very first post:

Life cannot come from non-life

False. You can obtain in a lab organic compounds from mineral ones. The basic ingredients you need are ammoniac (NH4) and methane (CH4), which are found throughout the Universe, not just earth. The first experiment to prove this was conducted in the 19th century, so this is not exactly a piece of news. Also there is a mechanism which would have allowed these substances to create organic matter mainlt the tidal waves.

Science also dictates evolution could never have happened

False again. As we speak there are tiny mutations occurring in each generation. There are documented cases when neutral mutations became prevalent. The example I have in mind is that of a species of butterflies in England. In the pre-industrial era, they had white wings, with a recessive mutation causing once in a while a butterfly with gray or black wings. In the industrial era this recessive trait became dominant and now the entire species has black wings as this helps them to better survive the environment.

Now my point is that logic cannot either prove or disprove the existence of God. To believe in God you need faith, nothing more, nothing less.

Also to enlarge the debate, there is absolutely no way to determine the nature of God, assuming he exists. I recommend you to read Meister Eckhart, a German mystic to understand the implications of this proposition. The "God is good and almighty" is only a naive thought. Early protestant Christianity claimed that the only way to serve God is to follow the teachings of Jesus, as that would ensure a full and harmonious life and afterlife, but again this holds no clue as to the actual nature of God.

Logic does have many purposes, justifying belief is not one of them.

[unriggable]

Always been a Universe.....hmmm that's an option. One I find hard to fathom but an option. So, would that include the planets, stars, meteors, comets black holes, etc. or just "space" itself? If "space" just always existed...where did the other stuff come from? Oh, and to answer your question, because His Word says so and I believe it to be divinely inspired. Look at its track record, its simply amazing.

Just as God existed for as long as, well, ever; the universe has always existed - it was essentially a void with all the atoms (that are now part of everything) jumbled up in one small spot - Big Bang in a nutshell, they exploded in different direction. Some atoms, in their nature, attracted others, and others still, and these began to have a weak gravetic field that eventually created asteroids, planets, stars, then us.

[WL_southerner]

man created god or gods not the other way round, man use it to explane some thing did have any knowage
like to point out wealfare was around alot longer than wwii belive it or not but pirates had welfare, alot of companys will not give you a job if your homeless

[hecter]

man created god or gods not the other way round, man use it to explane some thing did have any knowage
like to point out wealfare was around alot longer than wwii belive it or not but pirates had welfare, alot of companys will not give you a job if your homeless

maybe you should create the god of the english language since you have little "knowage" about it. lol just kidding, your totally right. man created gods, not the other way around.

[flashleg8]

man created god or gods not the other way round, man use it to explane some thing did have any knowage
like to point out wealfare was around alot longer than wwii belive it or not but pirates had welfare, alot of companys will not give you a job if your homeless

maybe you should create the god of the english language since you have little "knowage" about it. lol just kidding, your totally right. man created gods, not the other way around.

If you're going to correct someone’s spelling - you better be damn sure your own spelling is A1.

[unriggable]

True, and the Bible is a set of stories where the good side triumphs. Some people believe the stories are true, and that's where this bullshit comes in.

Notice how as science explains things, God becomes more distant; When the Europeans, the most advanced civilization in the world, met up with the Natives in America (who did not know much about the wonders of the world), one native said 'your god must be an old man for he lives in a small house - our god is in the fields and in the forests' (or something like that).

[jay_a2j]

man created god or gods not the other way round, man use it to explane some thing did have any knowage
like to point out wealfare was around alot longer than wwii belive it or not but pirates had welfare, alot of companys will not give you a job if your homeless

Um no, welfare was created after either WWI or WWII. It was originally created to help the widows of those who died in the war. WWI and WWII were only separated my mere years. Pirates had welfare? WHAT ARE YOU TAKING ABOUT????!! Please refrain from posting here.

[WL_southerner]

go and read up pirates did have welfare thats where the british got the idea from, pirates use to have extra pay out off bounty if they lost part of there body or wounded and could not fight any more or payed if they could not fight till they where well enough to fight again, that is welfare

[geegel]

go and read up pirates did have welfare thats where the british got the idea from, pirates use to have extra pay out off bounty if they lost part of there body or wounded and could not fight any more or payed if they could not fight till they where well enough to fight again, that is welfare

For the love of... the frigging great universe. Stop butchering the English language

[hecter]

man created god or gods not the other way round, man use it to explane some thing did have any knowage
like to point out wealfare was around alot longer than wwii belive it or not but pirates had welfare, alot of companys will not give you a job if your homeless

maybe you should create the god of the english language since you have little "knowage" about it. lol just kidding, your totally right. man created gods, not the other way around.

If you're going to correct someone’s spelling - you better be damn sure your own spelling is A1.

Did you not see the fact that I was just kidding, I did say it. I generaly have terrible spelling.

[jay_a2j]

go and read up pirates did have welfare thats where the british got the idea from, pirates use to have extra pay out off bounty if they lost part of there body or wounded and could not fight any more or payed if they could not fight till they where well enough to fight again, that is welfare

I was talking about WELFARE IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA and when it started.

..... I know you're Canadian and as such closer to a socialist government then the US but try to follow the conversation.

[WL_southerner]

i not going to bother to much about any ones english has long i under stand them,
if you look at some of the bible storys they belong to the gaelic tribe world, like the great flood thats about the flooding of the marsh lands in the black sea when the sea level rised after the last ice age

[geegel]

Back to my Meister Eckhart reccomendation. I found a live link to one of his sermons:

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/5164/EckSermXV.htm

Keep in mind that this was written in about 1300 AD, so the language may seem slightly strange.

Enjoy.

[unriggable]

Did 'yes' used to be 'yay' and no used to be 'nay'? Or has it always been that way?

[vtmarik]

i not going to bother to much about any ones english has long i under stand them,
if you look at some of the bible storys they belong to the gaelic tribe world, like the great flood thats about the flooding of the marsh lands in the black sea when the sea level rised after the last ice age

Let me see if I can pull some analogs of classic Christian stories in the Norse mythos, these won't be too descriptive though:

Christianity: God created Heaven and the Earth in six days from, by all accounts, nothing.
Norse: Odin, Villi, and Ve crafted the Earth (Midgard) from the bones and blood of the giant Ymir after this leader of the giants had been defeated in war.

Christianity: The triune God (Father, Son, Holy Spirit)
Norse: Two different "trinities:" Odin (spirit), Villi (will), and Ve (holy) - or - Odin, Hoenir (the bright one), and Lodur AKA Loki (fire). (Which one was in the mythos, we're not sure. Some scholars say there was only Odin, Villi, and Ve while other say that the three who created humanity were Odin, Hoenir, and Lodur.) Also, the other members of the Aesir and Vanir (the dozen or so other Gods)

Christianity: God created Adam from the clay and Eve from Adam's rib, and they were created in God's image.
Norse: Odin, Hoenir, and Lodur created Man and Woman from wooden blocks hewn into rough shapes of the human form: Ask (The Male, Ash) and Embla (The Female, Elm).

Hell, the Norse Mythos may seem slightly more ancient, but at least they have an origin for all the materials that make up the world.

For more descriptions of these events, check out the Encyclopedia Mythica at http://www.pantheon.org

[unriggable]

Don't forget the cow who created the gods!

Also flood is a common theme - the Inuits all have a flood story of their own. Could be a common thing in human nature to explain rain or snow.