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Tournament Creation Limits? [Poll Added By NS]

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Are a few organizers creating too many tournaments at once?

Poll ended at Fri Jan 22, 2010 10:03 am

 
Total votes : 0

Re: Tournament Creation Limits? [Poll Added By NS]

Postby Bones2484 on Fri Jan 08, 2010 4:50 pm

jricart wrote:This is ridiculous guys! We dont get paid to create tournaments and people complaining about it?

Come on! we create tourneys because we have the time and the commitment to run them. I max out my tournament contribution medals, same as HA, Bart and B00060, and we keep creating them for the fun of the players. We are not doing this for the medals.

I decided this year to focus on create more tournaments for the spanish speaking community in CC, and also keep running my Formula 1 and other General tournaments.

Lets think about this:

What would happen if B00060, HighlanderAttack, Bart and me decide not to run anymore tourneys? You will have 10 open tourneys in half a page Bones! Do you really want that?

A guess all of us cant leave without tourneys! I dont join all of HA and B tournaments, because there are some maps that Im not good at, so why bother!

i dont see any Tournament Contribution made by you Bones, so why you dont spend some time trying to help us creating new tournament with brilliant ideas as you mention? I guess is because you dont have the commitment to!

Nothing personal, but if you dont like the tournaments they create, dont join them, and spend a couple of minutes scrolling thru the pages to find the ones that fit on you.


I appreciate you missing the entire point of this thread.
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Re: Tournament Creation Limits? [Poll Added By NS]

Postby Bones2484 on Fri Jan 08, 2010 4:50 pm

JOHNNYROCKET24 wrote:also, 50% already voted not to cap the amount of tournies.


And 50% think there is something wrong with tournaments. What's your point?
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Re: Tournament Creation Limits? [Poll Added By NS]

Postby bennybladez on Fri Jan 08, 2010 4:53 pm

no how could they post to many... if anything i get to many inboxs with peoples replies for tournies i join but to many??? if you dont like them dont join them ... simple as that .
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Re: Tournament Creation Limits? [Poll Added By NS]

Postby JOHNNYROCKET24 on Fri Jan 08, 2010 4:55 pm

Dako wrote:Ok, the problem that tournaments are not creative and boring. Most of them are - random map (or one map) and best of 4 (7) singles games, 16 players. What are you competing over in such tourneys? King of the trash can who won one of 11 same tournaments he signed in?

No offense, but it is really hard to find good tournament to sign up for (like team games or league with many maps). So what I see here is few options, I will try to describe all of them properly:

  1. Limit number of pending tournaments to 3 max per creator.
    This will just slow down the way the tournaments are played but nothing will change all together - same cheap random 1v1 tourneys.
  2. Strict medals to award only distinguished tournaments.
    I mean it is ok to award the guy who did his first tournament with 16 players, but when he made more than 30 of such tournaments - what is the point of awarding there? Restriction can apply to the variety of tournaments or to the number of players/rounds/games. Will force TO to create more interesting tournaments or that last over 2 weeks. But still, most of them don't do that for medals. People join for medals.
  3. Divide tournaments forum into 2 categories.
    Team/singles or short/long term or anything else. Will not change anything, but will ease the browsing of the tournaments forum. Also, will keep the good amount of tournaments for everyone here with any taste.
  4. Limit the pending number of similar tournaments.
    Will slow down most of the uncreative TO and will force them to really choose the setting and prove that their tournament is interesting and is not only liked by the crowd but also brings the quality to CC.

So my major point - what is the reason to create many similar tournaments over and over again? Why don't you start something really hard to manage (try to handle TLO, heh) if you have so much time to create small tournaments?

Try to be creative.
One map for the whole tour - 0 creativity.
Random maps for the whole tour - 0 creativity.
Always the same brackets - 0 creativity.
Always the same scoring - 0 creativity.
Always the same TO - 0 creativity :D.

What I really want to see in CC - not the numbers ("ohhh, i have 100+ tournaments", or "ohhh, I created over 1k 1v1 tournament games"), but the quality of the tournaments, their diversity, the real challenge, not just the dice throwing.

Good tournaments attract good players/teams - that is the real purpose of a tournament - struggle with the best rivals to reach the top to see who is the best. Clearly, the best.

And I don't try to flame o attack HA or B - they are good guys, but they are doing the same job over and over again... that is just boring. Why not start something new? I know that people like to play 1v1 random - because it is easy to win and earn a shiny medal. But that is unacceptable. Where is the honor in that? I don't see any.

Hope you read that and considered.
Cheers,
Dako.


simple response

1) host the tourney you would to see
2) dont join the tournies you dont want to see

same as joining/creating games

1) join the games you like
2) dont join the games you dont like
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Re: Tournament Creation Limits? [Poll Added By NS]

Postby JOHNNYROCKET24 on Fri Jan 08, 2010 4:57 pm

Bones2484 wrote:
JOHNNYROCKET24 wrote:also, 50% already voted not to cap the amount of tournies.


And 50% think there is something wrong with tournaments. What's your point?
yeah- but you gave only 1 option to keep the mods out.....which is 50%. you set the poll up to try and make it suceed in your favor and still failed.
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Re: Tournament Creation Limits? [Poll Added By NS]

Postby Bones2484 on Fri Jan 08, 2010 4:58 pm

I'd also like to thank the people who disagree with me (in addition to those that agree) that provided their analysis of the situation with well thought out posts that gave insight to the other side. All I wanted was some discussion to find out what other players thought and it's very interesting to read both opinions on the matter.

As for the rest of the players who could only respond with curse words, terrible sarcasm, or insults. Shame on you. Heaven forbid we have a discussion - even if nothing comes out of it. No matter what, we all can learn about how tournament organizers and players view this forum.

And judging by the voting, it's clear half of the people involved with tournaments have some sort of issue with it.
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Re: Tournament Creation Limits? [Poll Added By NS]

Postby Bones2484 on Fri Jan 08, 2010 4:59 pm

JOHNNYROCKET24 wrote:
Bones2484 wrote:
JOHNNYROCKET24 wrote:also, 50% already voted not to cap the amount of tournies.


And 50% think there is something wrong with tournaments. What's your point?
yeah- but you gave only 1 option to keep the mods out.....which is 50%. you set the poll up to try and make it suceed in your favor and still failed.


Nice try again, but I did not set up the poll.

In my opinion, there is only one option that shows that people want no change... and that's currently sitting at 48%. The rest of them combined show that there are issues that people have.
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Re: Tournament Creation Limits? [Poll Added By NS]

Postby Night Strike on Fri Jan 08, 2010 5:04 pm

JOHNNYROCKET24 wrote:
Bones2484 wrote:
JOHNNYROCKET24 wrote:also, 50% already voted not to cap the amount of tournies.


And 50% think there is something wrong with tournaments. What's your point?
yeah- but you gave only 1 option to keep the mods out.....which is 50%. you set the poll up to try and make it suceed in your favor and still failed.


I set up the poll, not bones. And the 2nd option also keeps the mods out.


In order to keep this debate on topic, this ONLY concerns tournaments in the Create/Join a Tournament Forum. NOTHING about the number of Ongoing Tournaments an organizer has is going to be changed.
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Re: Tournament Creation Limits? [Poll Added By NS]

Postby squishyg on Fri Jan 08, 2010 5:05 pm

I could see putting more criteria in place for starting a tourney, so that the achievement of winning one vs. another is more consistent. That said, I play a lot of HA's tourneys and he does a great job of running them. I think if an organizer can handle running a lot of tourneys, I think we should congratulate them on their dedicated volunteerism. Naturally, if an organizer bites off more than they can chew and the quality of their work suffers, by all means the staff should intervene. But I think it's commendable that a handful of players choose to spend so much time creating tourney opportunities for us.

Can we do more to support new tourney organizers? Absolutely! We don't want our entire tourney system resting on the shoulders of a few people. Just like how there have been conversations about supporting new mapmakers in the foundry, we should make space for new tourney directors as well.
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Re: Tournament Creation Limits? [Poll Added By NS]

Postby Bones2484 on Fri Jan 08, 2010 5:08 pm

squishyg wrote:I could see putting more criteria in place for starting a tourney, so that the achievement of winning one vs. another is more consistent. That said, I play a lot of HA's tourneys and he does a great job of running them. I think if an organizer can handle running a lot of tourneys, I think we should congratulate them on their dedicated volunteerism. Naturally, if an organizer bites off more than they can chew and the quality of their work suffers, by all means the staff should intervene. But I think it's commendable that a handful of players choose to spend so much time creating tourney opportunities for us.

Can we do more to support new tourney organizers? Absolutely! We don't want our entire tourney system resting on the shoulders of a few people. Just like how there have been conversations about supporting new mapmakers in the foundry, we should make space for new tourney directors as well.


Now this is a perfect example of someone with a different view point than me who gives a great analysis and offers a solution to the problem at hand.

Thanks squishyg, great post.
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Re: Tournament Creation Limits? [Poll Added By NS]

Postby kingpin01 on Fri Jan 08, 2010 5:18 pm

I've read through a lot of the comments here, and I think the root issue is that people have a hard time finding tournaments that they like. I know that I prefer longer, more complicated tournaments, but have trouble finding them in the create/join forum.

For those that support creating lots of tournaments at the same time, I think you need to address Bones and others concerns: How do I sort through 3 pages of tournaments to find the ones that I want to play?
A simple solution was proposed: limit the number of tournaments that people start at one time. If that's not the solution, how about something like this:

A standard format for Thread titles, which provides better descriptions without having to click into each tournament. We ask people posting suggestions and cheating reports to use a form. Couldn't we ask Tournament creators to use a form, just for the Title of their thread?

What information would this include? How about number of players (pretty standard - 0/12), number of rounds (4R), and the settings (mixed settings, Esc Sunny chained Hong Kong, Foggy Assasin Feudal). Is there any other information that would be helpful to find interesting tournaments?
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Re: Tournament Creation Limits? [Poll Added By NS]

Postby nick_la_trique on Fri Jan 08, 2010 5:28 pm

i don't mind that much... i only participate in tourneys that i think are well organized... HA is a good one at that.
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Re: Tournament Creation Limits? [Poll Added By NS]

Postby mgconstruction on Fri Jan 08, 2010 5:35 pm

As I said in my earlier Post. Why couldn't we set up Sub Forums in the Join/create tourney that somehow separate "Franchise" Tourneys from the fly by night ones?
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Re: Tournament Creation Limits? [Poll Added By NS]

Postby Dako on Fri Jan 08, 2010 5:51 pm

JOHNNYROCKET24 wrote:simple response

1) host the tourney you would to see
2) dont join the tournies you dont want to see

same as joining/creating games

1) join the games you like
2) dont join the games you dont like


I agree with you. I tried to play 1v1 random tourney, didn't like it and gave up on them. But it is hard to find the ones I like when I have 60 threads to look through.

Maybe I will grow up some day and host my own tournament. But for now I will talk as a consumer only :).
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Re: Tournament Creation Limits? [Poll Added By NS]

Postby flexmaster33 on Fri Jan 08, 2010 5:54 pm

agreed with your original statement Bones...while I like to see plenty of tourneys to choose from it is best when the tourneys offer bring some differences or creativity to the mix. You have to wonder if some of this is driven by getting medals of some sort...although I don't think that is a main motivation for most TOs.
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Re: Tournament Creation Limits? [Poll Added By NS]

Postby Dako on Fri Jan 08, 2010 5:55 pm

One more addition.

I think dividing tournaments into 2 subforums is the best solution. Easy to navigate and easy to fill with more tournaments. Cause right now there are 3 players that do tournaments, and what will happen when there will be 10 people? Still the same problem with the flood and no limits will save them. Limits are not the solution - just a temporary choice. We need something more in-depth and we need the opinion of everyone interested here.

Limiting the tournaments will just disgrace and offend our guys like HA and B - they put much effort into tournaments (even if they are plain and simple) and you just want to spit on it. Shame on you.

I think medals might be the root as well - not the TO medal, but the winner medal.
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Re: Tournament Creation Limits? [Poll Added By NS]

Postby sniffie on Fri Jan 08, 2010 6:01 pm

hi all,

I´ve clicked the last option for more then 1 reason.

-everybody is free to oragnize (a) tournament(s)
- not everybody knows how to organize a good tournament
- if you do not wish to join a tournament then don't

Regards, sniffie
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Re: Tournament Creation Limits? [Poll Added By NS]

Postby red_dragon on Fri Jan 08, 2010 6:06 pm

in my opinion. i don't play often tournaments, I don't like to search on the tournament page(s) because it is tomuch work. to much to pick from

if you say someone makes tomany tournaments at once and you put a limit on it. for example 5 max running. its the same as you say people make to many games at once like 10 or even more. you could limit that aswel

i think it can be organised, it's for the forum mods to decide how or for the game makers to see what can be done about it.

my regards
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Re: Tournament Creation Limits? [Poll Added By NS]

Postby Captain_Scarlet on Fri Jan 08, 2010 6:08 pm

I must admit I was shocked to see players complaining about the work and effort players like Highlander and b00060 put into organising tournaments and running them successfully

these tournaments fill so quickly and yet some of you are complaining it's too hard to find a tournament to join because there is too much choice? you should be giving these guys a medal for giving of their time so freely and making cc more fun

and all the players complaining - I have one thing to say - in my opinion, before you have the right to even complain in this thread, get off your arse and create and run a tournament - and until then you have absolutely no idea of the effort required
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Re: Tournament Creation Limits? [Poll Added By NS]

Postby xabigerrard on Fri Jan 08, 2010 6:13 pm

Dako wrote:One more addition.

I think dividing tournaments into 2 subforums is the best solution. Easy to navigate and easy to fill with more tournaments. Cause right now there are 3 players that do tournaments, and what will happen when there will be 10 people? Still the same problem with the flood and no limits will save them. Limits are not the solution - just a temporary choice. We need something more in-depth and we need the opinion of everyone interested here.

Limiting the tournaments will just disgrace and offend our guys like HA and B - they put much effort into tournaments (even if they are plain and simple) and you just want to spit on it. Shame on you.

I think medals might be the root as well - not the TO medal, but the winner medal.



I agree with all of that.

From a personal perspective, I don't join an awful lot of tourneys, but when I do, I don't mind clicking on to have a look and then it's either yay or nay! Helps if it is descriptive in the title though.

Nothing to cry about in my opinion.
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Re: Tournament Creation Limits? [Poll Added By NS]

Postby max is gr8 on Fri Jan 08, 2010 6:19 pm

HighlanderAttack wrote:Maybe you need to check out my tourneys I have ran: I've edited to show the franchise frequency of all, and ordered in number of times

HA's Don't Blink * 37
Around All CC's Maps * 22
HA's Random 1v1 Major+ * 6
HA's Round Robin Series * 5
HA'S MANUAL CLASSIC * 3 (One was "Big")
HA's Classic Dubs Major * 3
HA's Arms Race Addiction * 2
HA's Easter Tourney * 2
HA's Tax Day Tourney * 2
Ha's-4-3-2-1 * 2
HA's Foggy/Sunny * 2
HA's Random 1v1 Triples * 2
CC DYNASTY LEAGUE SEASON 1
HA's Saint Patricks Day Tourney
HA's April Fools Day Tourney
HA's Memorial Day Tourney
Ha's Cinco de Mayo
HA's Arms Race B-Day
HA's Labor Day Tourney
In Memory of 911
HA's Columbus Day Tourney
HA's Halloween Horror
HA's P-I-G-ONE
HA's Veterans Day Tourney
HA's Thanksgiving Day Tourney
HA's Happy New Year Tourney
HA's Christmas Gifts
HA's Classic Dubs-ONE
HA's 105th Tourney
HA's Nuclear Random just win one


So you actually only have 30 different tournament ideas/executions.

I'm guessing some events like the "XXX" day will be the same, now I'm not making a personal attack here but it seems that all of these tournaments are the same thing. Looking at some of these tournaments they seem to be either:

A League
A Bracket
Or A Round Robin

I haven't looked at them all but of the ones I have done that is all I can see.

Captain_Scarlet wrote:and all the players complaining - I have one thing to say - in my opinion, before you have the right to even complain in this thread, get off your arse and create and run a tournament - and until then you have absolutely no idea of the effort required


Most of the people complaining are organizers! Much of the problem isn't the fact the tournaments exist is the fact the forum seems to be flooded with them.

Dako wrote:I think dividing tournaments into 2 subforums is the best solution. Easy to navigate and easy to fill with more tournaments. Cause right now there are 3 players that do tournaments, and what will happen when there will be 10 people? Still the same problem with the flood and no limits will save them. Limits are not the solution - just a temporary choice. We need something more in-depth and we need the opinion of everyone interested here.


I agree a separation may be the way to go. Either into style of tournament -- Bracket/League etc. or into the complexity. Or if there is a theme. Franchise is another way. Anyway I'll think about it.
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Re: Tournament Creation Limits? [Poll Added By NS]

Postby Gozar on Fri Jan 08, 2010 6:26 pm

I wouldn't mind seeing create/join tournaments sorted by team, 1v1 and the rest, either with their own subforum, or with a simple tag in the title.

Let's try to keep creating tournaments from having any more rules than they already have.

EDIT:

Also, Bones is just one guy, so do not go and give up on making tournaments based on his post.

Love ya Bonesy.
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Re: Tournament Creation Limits? [Poll Added By NS]

Postby Bones2484 on Fri Jan 08, 2010 6:28 pm

The tags in the title has been suggested a few times and may be an interesting approach. It would definitely help tournament players sort out ones that they may be looking for.
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Re: Tournament Creation Limits? [Poll Added By NS]

Postby elmerfudd on Fri Jan 08, 2010 6:32 pm

nick_la_trique wrote:i don't mind that much... i only participate in tourneys that i think are well organized... HA is a good one at that.

i think the same so find the ones that is misusing the tournament and leave the one that is good at it along
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Re: Tournament Creation Limits? [Poll Added By NS]

Postby talia-thomas on Fri Jan 08, 2010 6:34 pm

I’m not seeing a problem here. I’ve been a member of this site for going on 2 years. I didn’t start playing tourneys until about 3-4 months ago. I only started because the number of tourney’s that interested me increased. The tourneys run by Darrin, mg, HA, JR, b00060 and others may be simple in format but are great fun. They’re easy to understand, not overly time committing, have great organizers, are well run, well communicated, and have quality players. I have not been in one of these guy’s tourneys that I have not been up against a quality opponent from round 1 through finals. I have not seen one of these tourneys get pulled due to lack of interest or poor management. Great job guys. Keep up the great work. I tool around the tourney page every day looking for one or more of these guy’s tourneys and I look forward to getting the invites. Is there a problem with these not filling? I doubt it. They always seem to fill fast and that’s because of the reasons I stated above, not because searchers are too lazy to weed through these tourneys to find another more interesting tourney so they settle on one of these.

As for them being too rudimentary or simple, since when has the format of these tourneys failed us? The March Madness and the NFL are set up as a bracketed, one and out. MLB, NBA, and NHL are set up as a best of 3, 5, or 7 bracketed formats. Not sure what’s wrong with that. It’s simple, effective and fun.

To those who complain about having to search through all these tourneys to find the one that they want…really? Are you serious? I look at the tourney’s forum every day…front to back. I know the franchises that I like and the tourney titles that I don’t recognize, I take a second to look through and if interests me, I join. 5-10 minutes max. Is there another way that we can set up the forum? Maybe set the forum into sub forums like 1 v 1; singles multiplayer, doubles, trips, quads, assassin, terminator, speed, etc. I’m no expert at computers and programming, but is there a way that we could search through tourneys by selecting various criteria including age, game type, organizer, special features, space available, etc. Could we set up these standard bracketed tourneys, 1 and out or best of 3, 5 or 7 in its own sub-forum and the “special or unique” tourneys in another?

To continue on my rant, in the last few weeks I’ve seen a lot of complaining about “volume”, too many tournaments, regulating the number of maps over in cartography (can’t remember the exact details), too much farming, record number of clan challenges, number of players in whac a mod, the Battle Royals…volume, volume, volume. Since when has this been a problem? I say the number of tourneys, the number of maps in production, and the number of games being played are all indicative of an increasingly popular site. That’s a good thing. What next? Too many clans, too many games, too many medals, too many members, too many Mods?

I say let the people play! Let the people like HA, JR, Darrin, mg, bart, b00060 (and all the others…sorry if I forgot anyone) who take the time to set up and manage these tournament s, go forward with as many tournaments as they can manage. Stop trying to restrict the site to conform to tourists and the weak. Let the site grow and flourish. Let it be fun for those of us who like the way things are run too. Make the players responsible for themselves. It takes 5-10 minutes a day to look over the Tourney page. Join a clan. Post to forums, make maps, set up tourneys. This site continues to grow…use technology to help make things easier, don’t restrict us. Stop trying to be like the US Federal Government, trying to get involved with too many issues which are important to too few. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.

My 2 cents. Keep up the good work tournament organizers. What you do does not go unrecognized.

Sorry if I reapeated some issues that were already brought up...I was too lazy to read through 5 pages of posts.... :lol: That's irony incase you missed it.
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