The American Revolution

[Juan_Bottom]

Hey Juan_Bottom... great post!

Mostly I wanted to keep the discussion going. History is awesome.

The English could have easily won.

Well the main problem that the English faced was the American's spirit. The English were winning all the battles. They were just destroying all opposition. But the will to win stayed alive in the hearts of all Americans. You just can't win a war like that. And even if say,.... the English had won, they would likely have went back to the old system of oppression. And twenty years later revolution would have started again.

Colonists at the time would have been happy to pledge allegiance to King George if they could have had either;
1) Representative votes in Parliament.
-or-
2) The ability to levy their own taxes... not taxed by fiat by the King or Parliament.

So true of the US in the 1700s. Well, until the 1780s....

As much as I believe the US has contributed to the world... I wonder if perhaps the world would have been better with a move tightly unified and stronger "Commonwealth".

Well that would imply that the UK were the good guys. I would argue that the modern view (for white western cultures anyway) of the UK didn't start until after WWI. Perhaps even after WWII.
Anyway the point is that the UK controlled/oppressed enough of the world that they didn't need control of our whole hemisphere to help. However I'm not saying that we're innocent because of the Monroe Doctrine or anything, because America has done it's fair share of ridiculously embarrassing oppression. But I think that my point was made.

Parliament also forbade colonization to the west of the Appalachian Mountains in an effort to minimize the cost of defending and maintaining the colonies

Or to be more specific, because the Native Americans on that side would slaughter anyone they caught on their land. Yet somehow the colonists thought it was a good idea to ignore the order not to go where they would be slaughtered. I mean, I get it that land = power, but come on.

...I think it's "serves you right you limey jerk!"...

I pay taxes and I don't get to vote.
My phrase might be "stop right there you criminal scum! No more inalienable rights for you!"
Same boat different reasons.

In that case, I guess it's time for a new revolution.

I have a bunch of Nerf weapons we can use.

lulz
Where were you during the bailout?

[Phatscotty]

The human soul had been liberated, perhaps more than at any time in history.

[Baron Von PWN]

The human soul had been liberated, perhaps more than at any time in history.

Just white man souls though, wouldn't want all those black and lady souls getting crazy ideas.

[Phatscotty]

The human soul had been liberated, perhaps more than at any time in history.

Just white man souls though, wouldn't want all those black and lady souls getting crazy ideas.

the whiteys couldnt snap their fingers and fix everything, but they did lay the frame work. Only a free country can end slavery. The debate to end slavery was being held in America even before the revolution, and once we formed a gov't(1790-1800), the effort to end slavery became official. A short generation later, the American demand to end slavery was being heard. The sons and grandsons of the revolutionary generation are the generation that ended slavery. It really didn't take that long to end the King Georges slavetrade.

again, by all means, continue to view the 18th century through 21st century goggles. you will do well in life

[Baron Von PWN]

The human soul had been liberated, perhaps more than at any time in history.

Just white man souls though, wouldn't want all those black and lady souls getting crazy ideas.

the whiteys couldnt snap their fingers and fix everything, but they did lay the frame work. Only a free country can end slavery. The debate to end slavery was being held in America even before the revolution, and once we formed a gov't(1790-1800), the effort to end slavery became official. A short generation later, the American demand to end slavery was being heard. The sons and grandsons of the revolutionary generation are the generation that ended slavery. It really didn't take that long to end the King Georges slavetrade.

again, by all means, continue to view the 18th century through 21st century goggles. you will do well in life

Except the british ended slavery a good 20 years before the US, they also beat you to Universal sufferage. however your remark was in the context of the American Revolution, so it would be inacurate to say the human soul had been liberated, as at that time only the white male soul had been liberated.

[Phatscotty]

The human soul had been liberated, perhaps more than at any time in history.

Just white man souls though, wouldn't want all those black and lady souls getting crazy ideas.

the whiteys couldnt snap their fingers and fix everything, but they did lay the frame work. Only a free country can end slavery. The debate to end slavery was being held in America even before the revolution, and once we formed a gov't(1790-1800), the effort to end slavery became official. A short generation later, the American demand to end slavery was being heard. The sons and grandsons of the revolutionary generation are the generation that ended slavery. It really didn't take that long to end the King Georges slavetrade.

again, by all means, continue to view the 18th century through 21st century goggles. you will do well in life

Except the british ended slavery a good 20 years before the US, they also beat you to Universal sufferage. however your remark was in the context of the American Revolution, so it would be inacurate to say the human soul had been liberated, as at that time only the white male soul had been liberated.

needless to say, a people needs to earn its freedom. the people who were fighting were white. Who else would you expect to get free? the way you talk, it sounds as if you were expecting people to just drop half price freedom on all peoples on july 5th or what?

[Baron Von PWN]

The human soul had been liberated, perhaps more than at any time in history.

Just white man souls though, wouldn't want all those black and lady souls getting crazy ideas.

the whiteys couldnt snap their fingers and fix everything, but they did lay the frame work. Only a free country can end slavery. The debate to end slavery was being held in America even before the revolution, and once we formed a gov't(1790-1800), the effort to end slavery became official. A short generation later, the American demand to end slavery was being heard. The sons and grandsons of the revolutionary generation are the generation that ended slavery. It really didn't take that long to end the King Georges slavetrade.

again, by all means, continue to view the 18th century through 21st century goggles. you will do well in life

Except the british ended slavery a good 20 years before the US, they also beat you to Universal sufferage. however your remark was in the context of the American Revolution, so it would be inacurate to say the human soul had been liberated, as at that time only the white male soul had been liberated.

needless to say, a people needs to earn its freedom. the people who were fighting were white. Who else would you expect to get free? the way you talk, it sounds as if you were expecting people to just drop half price freedom on all peoples on july 5th or what?

wow. just wow.

[spurgistan]

The human soul had been liberated, perhaps more than at any time in history.

Just white man souls though, wouldn't want all those black and lady souls getting crazy ideas.

the whiteys couldnt snap their fingers and fix everything, but they did lay the frame work. Only a free country can end slavery. The debate to end slavery was being held in America even before the revolution, and once we formed a gov't(1790-1800), the effort to end slavery became official. A short generation later, the American demand to end slavery was being heard. The sons and grandsons of the revolutionary generation are the generation that ended slavery. It really didn't take that long to end the King Georges slavetrade.

again, by all means, continue to view the 18th century through 21st century goggles. you will do well in life

What kind of generation takes 76 years (from the Constitution to the Emanicipation Proclamation) to pass? The American revolution was about replacing one set of elites with another.

[Phatscotty]

The human soul had been liberated, perhaps more than at any time in history.

Just white man souls though, wouldn't want all those black and lady souls getting crazy ideas.

the whiteys couldnt snap their fingers and fix everything, but they did lay the frame work. Only a free country can end slavery. The debate to end slavery was being held in America even before the revolution, and once we formed a gov't(1790-1800), the effort to end slavery became official. A short generation later, the American demand to end slavery was being heard. The sons and grandsons of the revolutionary generation are the generation that ended slavery. It really didn't take that long to end the King Georges slavetrade.

again, by all means, continue to view the 18th century through 21st century goggles. you will do well in life

Except the british ended slavery a good 20 years before the US, they also beat you to Universal sufferage. however your remark was in the context of the American Revolution, so it would be inacurate to say the human soul had been liberated, as at that time only the white male soul had been liberated.

wow, the British had an established gov't and system for centuries. We did it in a few decades. you arent really comparing the worlds great super power to an up-start gov't from scrath .......are you???

btw, if you were, America, from the start of it conception, abolished slavery, from scratch, in 50 years. Britain allowed and encouraged slavery much longer than that. Your wisdom continues to flow....

[Baron Von PWN]

The human soul had been liberated, perhaps more than at any time in history.

Just white man souls though, wouldn't want all those black and lady souls getting crazy ideas.

the whiteys couldnt snap their fingers and fix everything, but they did lay the frame work. Only a free country can end slavery. The debate to end slavery was being held in America even before the revolution, and once we formed a gov't(1790-1800), the effort to end slavery became official. A short generation later, the American demand to end slavery was being heard. The sons and grandsons of the revolutionary generation are the generation that ended slavery. It really didn't take that long to end the King Georges slavetrade.

again, by all means, continue to view the 18th century through 21st century goggles. you will do well in life

Except the british ended slavery a good 20 years before the US, they also beat you to Universal sufferage. however your remark was in the context of the American Revolution, so it would be inacurate to say the human soul had been liberated, as at that time only the white male soul had been liberated.

wow, the British had an established gov't and system for centuries. We did it in a few decades. you arent really comparing the worlds great super power to an up-start gov't from scrath .......are you???

btw, if you were, America, from the start of it conception, abolished slavery, from scratch, in 50 years. Britain allowed and encouraged slavery much longer than that. Your wisdom continues to flow....

Slavery was abolished 1865, the USA was born 1776, that's 89 years. Who's viewing things from 21st century goggles now? all nations are the product of their time and the British were clearly more liberal minded about it. They didin't even need to fight a civil war to repeal slavery.

[jay_a2j]

We then decided that we didn't want America, but as we didn't want you to sulk, we pretended to have a war that we would "lose".

You've got to be kidding me! England didn't want America eh? Wow, talk about lame reasons given for losing a war. I have no doubt that any opposing nations in war slant it in their direction. I wonder what Japan teaches about Hiroshima and Nagasaki?

[Phatscotty]

Just white man souls though, wouldn't want all those black and lady souls getting crazy ideas.

the whiteys couldnt snap their fingers and fix everything, but they did lay the frame work. Only a free country can end slavery. The debate to end slavery was being held in America even before the revolution, and once we formed a gov't(1790-1800), the effort to end slavery became official. A short generation later, the American demand to end slavery was being heard. The sons and grandsons of the revolutionary generation are the generation that ended slavery. It really didn't take that long to end the King Georges slavetrade.

again, by all means, continue to view the 18th century through 21st century goggles. you will do well in life

Except the british ended slavery a good 20 years before the US, they also beat you to Universal sufferage. however your remark was in the context of the American Revolution, so it would be inacurate to say the human soul had been liberated, as at that time only the white male soul had been liberated.

wow, the British had an established gov't and system for centuries. We did it in a few decades. you arent really comparing the worlds great super power to an up-start gov't from scrath .......are you???

btw, if you were, America, from the start of it conception, abolished slavery, from scratch, in 50 years. Britain allowed and encouraged slavery much longer than that. Your wisdom continues to flow....

Slavery was abolished 1865, the USA was born 1776, that's 89 years. Who's viewing things from 21st century goggles now? all nations are the product of their time and the British were clearly more liberal minded about it. They didin't even need to fight a civil war to repeal slavery.

you are using math to judge which century I'm looking from? great point!

Why the hell would I listen to someone who doesn't know shit about Americas founding anyways? you don;t know shit about it, but are gonna sit here and lecture me? ridiculous.
You miss the topic on SO MANY BASIC LEVELS, it is no wonder what this conversation has turned into. I have decided we can not continue.

Slavery was being debated from before we even declared our independence and even so, african americans were a free people in most of the indepenant north states. you can not lay slavery on the entire USA when it was only a couple states that practiced it. this is probably the first time you ahve ever heard these things. but they are absolutely true. the states were practicing democracy for the very first time. They didn't even have an army, although it seems you are demanding that these states immediately gather massive armies and go tell the independent slave states what they can and can't do, and that they have to change their life around what other states think they should do. if you dont understand freedom and independence, then you don't understand. Good Day Sir

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1Txi1687wo

the only thing you are good at Baron is schooling people in your own imbecility. You are a very young and naive man. One day you will realize this.

[PLAYER57832]

The human soul had been liberated, perhaps more than at any time in history.

Just white man souls though, wouldn't want all those black and lady souls getting crazy ideas.

the whiteys couldnt snap their fingers and fix everything, but they did lay the frame work. Only a free country can end slavery. The debate to end slavery was being held in America even before the revolution, and once we formed a gov't(1790-1800), the effort to end slavery became official. A short generation later, the American demand to end slavery was being heard. The sons and grandsons of the revolutionary generation are the generation that ended slavery. It really didn't take that long to end the King Georges slavetrade.

again, by all means, continue to view the 18th century through 21st century goggles. you will do well in life

Except the british ended slavery a good 20 years before the US, they also beat you to Universal sufferage. however your remark was in the context of the American Revolution, so it would be inacurate to say the human soul had been liberated, as at that time only the white male soul had been liberated.

wow, the British had an established gov't and system for centuries. We did it in a few decades. you arent really comparing the worlds great super power to an up-start gov't from scrath .......are you???

btw, if you were, America, from the start of it conception, abolished slavery, from scratch, in 50 years. Britain allowed and encouraged slavery much longer than that. Your wisdom continues to flow....

Newsflash. For Britain, this was more about making money off trade. Few Brits had slaves (compared to those in the US) -- a few black servants and such, but nothing like in the US south. Its much easier to deal with an esoteric issue than one upon which your bread and butter depends. If you want to judge British tolerance, try looking at India, etc.

As for the US.. look at the whole context. People had a hard time seeing ANYONE different as a "real and true" human being "just like them". It was common to dismiss poor folk as "deserving of poverty", as somehow being "mentally deficient' at their core. That they thought this of black people is no big shock. The shock is that so many actually came to see things differently. But again, it is no real cooincidence that these revelations came more from the north, where blacks were fewer, than in the south, where they depended so heavily upon the slaves to keep their economic system going. Further, the system, people's nature was/is such that people saw plenty of "evidence" to justify this treatment. People have amazing abilities at blindness when its in their economic and social interest to do so. But -- there have been enough threads on that.

The bottom line is that neither the US nor Britain really can brag heavily about the slavery issue, except that we can all be glad things are finally -- in just over 100 years, finally changing. I don't care who you are or what country -- THAT is something about which we can all be happy!

[Baron Von PWN]

you are using math to judge which century I'm looking from? great point!

Why the hell would I listen to someone who doesn't know shit about Americas founding anyways? you don;t know shit about it, but are gonna sit here and lecture me? ridiculous.
You miss the topic on SO MANY BASIC LEVELS, it is no wonder what this conversation has turned into. I have decided we can not continue.

Slavery was being debated from before we even declared our independence and even so, african americans were a free people in most of the indepenant north states. you can not lay slavery on the entire USA when it was only a couple states that practiced it. this is probably the first time you ahve ever heard these things. but they are absolutely true. the states were practicing democracy for the very first time. They didn't even have an army, although it seems you are demanding that these states immediately gather massive armies and go tell the independent slave states what they can and can't do, and that they have to change their life around what other states think they should do. if you dont understand freedom and independence, then you don't understand. Good Day Sir

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1Txi1687wo

the only thing you are good at Baron is schooling people in your own imbecility. You are a very young and naive man. One day you will realize this.

I know enough to know that the american revolution did not result in immediate freedom for the human soul, as your original quote suggested. That is all I have been objecting to.

You claimed the US abolished slavery in 50 years when that was clearly false, it was 89 years a quick check on Wikipedia confirmed that. sorry to point out inaccuracies in your argument. My original statement was due to your inaccurate claims that all humans were freed upon the revolution. It makes sense that they weren't immediately freed due to all the considerations you listed, however they weren't free.

[Phatscotty]

you are using math to judge which century I'm looking from? great point!

Why the hell would I listen to someone who doesn't know shit about Americas founding anyways? you don;t know shit about it, but are gonna sit here and lecture me? ridiculous.
You miss the topic on SO MANY BASIC LEVELS, it is no wonder what this conversation has turned into. I have decided we can not continue.

Slavery was being debated from before we even declared our independence and even so, african americans were a free people in most of the indepenant north states. you can not lay slavery on the entire USA when it was only a couple states that practiced it. this is probably the first time you ahve ever heard these things. but they are absolutely true. the states were practicing democracy for the very first time. They didn't even have an army, although it seems you are demanding that these states immediately gather massive armies and go tell the independent slave states what they can and can't do, and that they have to change their life around what other states think they should do. if you dont understand freedom and independence, then you don't understand. Good Day Sir

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1Txi1687wo

the only thing you are good at Baron is schooling people in your own imbecility. You are a very young and naive man. One day you will realize this.

I know enough to know that the american revolution did not result in immediate freedom for the human soul, as your original quote suggested. That is all I have been objecting to.

I would very obviously disagree with your interpretation. nothing in any of the responses since then of mine have pertained in the least bit to support you claim that what I meant was "instant liberation" LOL AS IF!

I SAID GOOD DAY!