Wages for US Federal Goverment vs. Private Sector

[Woodruff]

Most government agencies will spend their entire budget even if they don't need it. They do this because "they might need it later." and if they don't spend it all it will be cut in future years.

This is true, as every military unit I've ever been in operated under the same principle. It was well known that if you didn't spend your budget, your budget was cut.

A thoroughly stupid way to operate things.

[hecter]

Fact remains, federal $71,000 average salary

Private sector $40,000 average salary

Yes but that is not particularly usefull information.

not useful? in a thread named "Wages for US Federal Goverment vs. Private Sector"

what the hell is your problem?

What would be useful is how much, on average, a government employee gets paid to do a job versus somebody in the private sector with similar skills gets paid to do a similar job. So how much a government lawyer gets paid versus a private sector lawyer. Because, quite simply, the government doesn't exactly hire many waiters and retail sales associates and telemarketers.

[BigBallinStalin]

Most government agencies will spend their entire budget even if they don't need it. They do this because "they might need it later." and if they don't spend it all it will be cut in future years.

This is true, as every military unit I've ever been in operated under the same principle. It was well known that if you didn't spend your budget, your budget was cut.

A thoroughly stupid way to operate things.

You'd think someone would have thought of a solution to this problem by now, but if they did then that would mean less spending since a good chunk of that spending is wasted only to inflate the budget... but still, it's a bit insane.

[hecter]

Being a park-ranger actually requires quite a lot of training, but that's irrrelevant too. Their pay is there because you want these parks to keep on existing. They are important, both for your tourism (I spent quite a lot in Yellowstone and would've spent some in that place with those HUGE trees but couldn't) and for the sheer love of having things like that which can't be expressed in dollars.

actually it doesnt take much training nooblet.

Any high school grad or college student can get a job as one.

http://www.ehow.com/how_8752_become-park-ranger.html
Google is your friend.

[PLAYER57832]

Most government agencies will spend their entire budget even if they don't need it. They do this because "they might need it later." and if they don't spend it all it will be cut in future years.

This is true, as every military unit I've ever been in operated under the same principle. It was well known that if you didn't spend your budget, your budget was cut.

A thoroughly stupid way to operate things.

I agree this is stupid. Initially, it was set up this way to ward off people asking for unnecessary additional monies. However, it has definitely backfired.

The thing is, chaning this is just a detail and not really and truly even related to wages.

You'd think someone would have thought of a solution to this problem by now, but if they did then that would mean less spending since a good chunk of that spending is wasted only to inflate the budget... but still, it's a bit insane.

Its just so much easier to offer blanket criticisms like "the government is WASTEFUL", than to try and truly solve the reasons why this is sometimes the case.

And few get angrier over such idiocy than federal employees themselves... particularly lower ranked employees, since they know they will be the first to fall to budget cutting axes.

[PLAYER57832]

hey doesnt take much knowledge to drive around and be a park ranger either...my point was that the more needed worker be paid more...we all need mcdonalds the trees can guard themselves

Your ignorance is simply astounding.

The list of qualifications was too much to list here. Plus, something you likely would not know, unless you were attempting to obtain one of these jobs is that you need to have a lot more than the "minimum requirements" to have a real hope of getting one of these jobs.

IN reality, you absolutely HAVE to have a degree. To be truly competetive, you pretty much need several years experience. A Master's degree helps for the Interpretation type positions, including specific information on the park and area. For law enforcement, you need to have full blown law enforcement training. Having wildland fire certification is a big plus for most parks, as is having EMT certification.

McDonalds, by contrast, would prefer if you can read (optional, though) and likes to have people who have graduated from high school.

here is a brief synopsis of some of the duties.
Duties of a US National Park Service ranger:
Park Rangers supervise, manage and perform work in the conservation and use of resources in national parks and other federally-managed areas. Park Rangers carry out various tasks associated with forest or structural fire control; protection of property; gathering and dissemination of natural, historical, or scientific information; development of interpretive material for the natural, historical, or cultural features of an era; demonstration of folk art and crafts; enforcement of laws and regulations; investigation of violations, complaints, trespass/encroachment, and accidents; search and rescue; and management of historical, cultural, and natural resources, such as wildlife, forests, lakeshores, seashores, historic buildings, battlefields, archaeological properties, and recreation areas. They also operate campgrounds, including such tasks as assigning sites, replenishing firewood, performing safety inspections, providing information to visitors, and leading guided tours. Differences in the exact nature of duties depend on the grade of position, the site's size and specific needs.

Note that EVERY job includes a little phrase "other duties as required" than can mean literally anything legal.

In one area they are similar. Both burger flippers and Park Rangers are often hired part-time or temporary to begin. Note that most of them get no medical insurance. (cooperative education, and certain other specific hiring options do).

[PLAYER57832]

Fact remains, federal $71,000 average salary

Private sector $40,000 average salary

Fact remains, if you understand averages and statistics, this is meaningless information.

Fact also remains that I asked you to source your comment that federal jobs cost 2.5 times what they generate... or at least show the information that went into those figures and you decided instead to resort to name-calling and other idiocy.

And you have absolutely not shown anything I post to be wrong. (sorry, posting a laughing smiley is not "proof" or even real debate).

ergo.. you are trolling, not debating.

[thegreekdog]

I heard a story from someone that works in government. Her department had access to a legal research tool that cost $x per line of printed data. Towards the end of the year, my friend's boss came to her and said, "We haven't used the legal research tool to print anything and we're in danger of losing our budget for it. I need you to print all of the US Supreme Court opinions from 1970 to 1990." She did.

When I heard this story I cried.

[Baron Von PWN]

I heard a story from someone that works in government. Her department had access to a legal research tool that cost $x per line of printed data. Towards the end of the year, my friend's boss came to her and said, "We haven't used the legal research tool to print anything and we're in danger of losing our budget for it. I need you to print all of the US Supreme Court opinions from 1970 to 1990." She did.

When I heard this story I cried.

I heard a story from a guy who's sister heard a story from a freind who's cousin's boyfriend worked for someone who.... well you get the idea.

[thegreekdog]

I heard a story from someone that works in government. Her department had access to a legal research tool that cost $x per line of printed data. Towards the end of the year, my friend's boss came to her and said, "We haven't used the legal research tool to print anything and we're in danger of losing our budget for it. I need you to print all of the US Supreme Court opinions from 1970 to 1990." She did.

When I heard this story I cried.

I heard a story from a guy who's sister heard a story from a freind who's cousin's boyfriend worked for someone who.... well you get the idea.

Um... I don't get the idea. What's the idea?

[Snorri1234]

I heard a story from someone that works in government. Her department had access to a legal research tool that cost $x per line of printed data. Towards the end of the year, my friend's boss came to her and said, "We haven't used the legal research tool to print anything and we're in danger of losing our budget for it. I need you to print all of the US Supreme Court opinions from 1970 to 1990." She did.

When I heard this story I cried.

I heard a story from a guy who's sister heard a story from a freind who's cousin's boyfriend worked for someone who.... well you get the idea.

Um... I don't get the idea. What's the idea?

That it's anecdotal.

Also dude I heard similiar stories about private companies wasting money. Private companies have the same problem with budgets being cut if they aren't fully spend. (Though probably less, seeing as it's usually easier to argue your case.)

[thegreekdog]

I heard a story from someone that works in government. Her department had access to a legal research tool that cost $x per line of printed data. Towards the end of the year, my friend's boss came to her and said, "We haven't used the legal research tool to print anything and we're in danger of losing our budget for it. I need you to print all of the US Supreme Court opinions from 1970 to 1990." She did.

When I heard this story I cried.

I heard a story from a guy who's sister heard a story from a freind who's cousin's boyfriend worked for someone who.... well you get the idea.

Um... I don't get the idea. What's the idea?

That it's anecdotal.

Also dude I heard similiar stories about private companies wasting money. Private companies have the same problem with budgets being cut if they aren't fully spend. (Though probably less, seeing as it's usually easier to argue your case.)

That wasn't his idea. If that was his idea, he would have said "your story is anecdotal."

[PLAYER57832]

I heard a story from someone that works in government. Her department had access to a legal research tool that cost $x per line of printed data. Towards the end of the year, my friend's boss came to her and said, "We haven't used the legal research tool to print anything and we're in danger of losing our budget for it. I need you to print all of the US Supreme Court opinions from 1970 to 1990." She did.

When I heard this story I cried.

Don't doubt it, but for every such example, I can point to many very hard-working, highly skilled "ologists" who would love to be paid $30,000 a year, never mind $40,000.

There is definitely government waste, but government employees have always been an excellent bargain. Aside from the occasional idiot you find in ANY job, the only real exception has nothing to do with employee skills or such, it is departments that have lost function or were somewhat superfolous from the start (tea board anyone?).

The biggest problem, by far, is when these jobs are turned to the private sector. Then its called "government contracting".
Pretending that government employees are just over-paid slouches diverts attantion from the real and true problems.

[jay_a2j]

So much for the phrase "public servant".

Hey, I help keep you safe by keeping criminals off the street. I don't make $71,000 but yet have a far more dangerous job then say, a Senator who makes over 3x as much as I do.

Solution: Pay our Senators and Congressmen minimum wadge.

[Baron Von PWN]

I heard a story from someone that works in government. Her department had access to a legal research tool that cost $x per line of printed data. Towards the end of the year, my friend's boss came to her and said, "We haven't used the legal research tool to print anything and we're in danger of losing our budget for it. I need you to print all of the US Supreme Court opinions from 1970 to 1990." She did.

When I heard this story I cried.

I heard a story from a guy who's sister heard a story from a freind who's cousin's boyfriend worked for someone who.... well you get the idea.

Um... I don't get the idea. What's the idea?

That it's anecdotal.

Also dude I heard similiar stories about private companies wasting money. Private companies have the same problem with budgets being cut if they aren't fully spend. (Though probably less, seeing as it's usually easier to argue your case.)

That wasn't his idea. If that was his idea, he would have said "your story is anecdotal."

Realy you've never heard that "I heard so and so from a guy that knows a guy?" is a unreliable source of information?

[Baron Von PWN]

So much for the phrase "public servant".

Hey, I help keep you safe by keeping criminals off the street. I don't make $71,000 but yet have a far more dangerous job then say, a Senator who makes over 3x as much as I do.

Solution: Pay our Senators and Congressmen minimum wadge.

Excelent idea! I'm sure we will see an imediate improvement in the legislation passed.

[hecter]

So much for the phrase "public servant".

Hey, I help keep you safe by keeping criminals off the street. I don't make $71,000 but yet have a far more dangerous job then say, a Senator who makes over 3x as much as I do.

Solution: Pay our Senators and Congressmen minimum wadge.

Excelent idea! I'm sure we will see an imediate improvement in the legislation passed.

I firmly believe that would be the case. As nobody would get into politics for the money, but rather, for the good of the country and the people in it. Minimum wage would be too little, as it's quite difficult to live off that, but a middle class income, absolutely.

[Night Strike]

So much for the phrase "public servant".

Hey, I help keep you safe by keeping criminals off the street. I don't make $71,000 but yet have a far more dangerous job then say, a Senator who makes over 3x as much as I do.

Solution: Pay our Senators and Congressmen minimum wadge.

Assuming you are a police officer, then you aren't on the payrolls of the federal government which this thread is about.

[jay_a2j]

Assuming you are a police officer

No, they get them off the street, I keep them off the street.

[john9blue]

He's a prison guard.

[stahrgazer]

I heard a story from someone that works in government. Her department had access to a legal research tool that cost $x per line of printed data. Towards the end of the year, my friend's boss came to her and said, "We haven't used the legal research tool to print anything and we're in danger of losing our budget for it. I need you to print all of the US Supreme Court opinions from 1970 to 1990." She did.

When I heard this story I cried.

Unfortunately, true; Fed gov't often bases "next year's" budget on what was spent the prior year, so if you don't use it, you can't keep it, and you'll lose it for the next year. When I was in Jr. High I got to work a summer at an AF medical library. At the end of the summer, the library hadn't used its book budget, so they had me picking random books to buy so that they'd get at least the same budget for the next fiscal year. The Feds use absolutely no incentives for departments to be frugal about their budgets; they can't conserve a bit of last year's budget to make a more major purchase next year.

[stahrgazer]

So much for the phrase "public servant".

Hey, I help keep you safe by keeping criminals off the street. I don't make $71,000 but yet have a far more dangerous job then say, a Senator who makes over 3x as much as I do.

Solution: Pay our Senators and Congressmen minimum wadge.

Excelent idea! I'm sure we will see an imediate improvement in the legislation passed.

I firmly believe that would be the case. As nobody would get into politics for the money, but rather, for the good of the country and the people in it. Minimum wage would be too little, as it's quite difficult to live off that, but a middle class income, absolutely.

Our founding fathers intended that our representatives and senators be closer to the people in terms of wages; unfortunately, they relied on our reps and sens to have their sense of honor.... and allowed them to vote in their own wage raises. So, about, oh, I think it was around Reagan times, they voted themselves about a 2,000% payraise, from about $12-$15k a year, to several hundred thou a year (plus more perks, plus better medical care for life, plus retirement/pension regardless of years served).

Try getting them to pass a law giving their right to set their own wages directly back to the people.

[MeDeFe]

So much for the phrase "public servant".

Hey, I help keep you safe by keeping criminals off the street. I don't make $71,000 but yet have a far more dangerous job then say, a Senator who makes over 3x as much as I do.

Solution: Pay our Senators and Congressmen minimum wadge.

Excelent idea! I'm sure we will see an imediate improvement in the legislation passed.

I firmly believe that would be the case. As nobody would get into politics for the money, but rather, for the good of the country and the people in it. Minimum wage would be too little, as it's quite difficult to live off that, but a middle class income, absolutely.

"Campaign donations"

[jay_a2j]

He's a prison guard.

The correct term is "Corrections Officer".


Prison guard is so old school.

[thegreekdog]

[quote="Baron Von PWN]
I heard a story from a guy who's sister heard a story from a freind who's cousin's boyfriend worked for someone who.... well you get the idea.

Um... I don't get the idea. What's the idea?

That it's anecdotal.

Also dude I heard similiar stories about private companies wasting money. Private companies have the same problem with budgets being cut if they aren't fully spend. (Though probably less, seeing as it's usually easier to argue your case.)

That wasn't his idea. If that was his idea, he would have said "your story is anecdotal."

Realy you've never heard that "I heard so and so from a guy that knows a guy?" is a unreliable source of information?[/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote]

Yes, but that's the point. This is information from the person who did the deed.

It's like if your friend tells you he just took a shit.

What you've pointed out is like if your friend tells you that his mom's cousin's brother-in-law took a shit.

In any event, your argument is strawman. Who gives a shit? It happened, it's anecdotal evidence of government waste.