Post Any Evidence For God Here

[Lionz]

Snorri,

We can see more here and should not assume that or this shows all maybe.



Has a single flood layed down over a dozen sedimentary layers meters apart? If so, what can sedimentary layers tell us about how old anything is?

1. Dinosaurs have actually lived with humans and were written about by humans and accurately portrayed in artwork across the earth by humans well before the 1800s perhaps.

2 and 3. I'm not claiming that a non-global flood can't lead to there being polystrate fossils, but I'm also not claiming that it has ever taken thousands of years for a foot of sedimentary layers to form. Do you theorize that it has?

[Lionz]

Have humans and dinosaurs coexisted?

Is there a mainstream evolutionary theory that would stand up to it?

Dinosaur isn't the first English word used to refer to them and there's also one or more Hebrew word found in scripture that is used to refer to them perhaps.

Maybe you will see a #1 definition here.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dragon

And will study a Strong's Number 08577 here.

http://studylight.org/desk/view.cgi?number=08577

Perhaps there are month names that refer to false deities and there is a month name replaced with a blank line by me in the first and I'm misquoting for all I know, but...

- A Sumerian story dating back to 2000 BC or earlier tells of a hero named Gilgamesh, who, when he went to fell cedars in a remote forest, encountered a huge vicious dragon that he slew, cutting off its head as a trophy. - When Alexander the Great (c. 330 BC) and his soldiers marched into India, they found that the Indians worshipped huge hissing reptiles that they kept in caves.
- China is renowned for its dragon stories, and dragons are prominent on Chinese pottery, embroidery, and carvings.
- England and several other cultures retain the story of St. George, who slew a dragon that lived in a cave.
- There is the story of a tenth-century Irishman who wrote of his encounter with what appears to have been a Stegosaurus.
- In the 1500s, a European scientific book, Historia Animalium, listed several living animals that we would call dinosaurs. A well-known naturalist of the time, Ulysses Aldrovandus, recorded an encounter between a peasant named Baptista and a dragon whose description fits that of the small dinosaur Tanystropheus. The encounter was on ___ 13, 1572, near Bologna in Italy, and the peasant killed the dragon.

Most people likely are unaware that the word “dinosaur” was not coined until the 1840s. Thus, if these creatures lived alongside humans prior to that time (and the evidence indicates that they did—see Thompson and Harrub, 2003, pp. 197-226), they were not called dinosaurs. So what were they called? Dragons. Numerous cultures throughout the world possess ancient stories about “dragons” that closely resemble what we today would call dinosaurs (which is to be expected if dinosaurs and humans actually lived together). From ancient texts in Mesopotamia, China, and Europe, creatures with scaly skin, slender necks, and long tails are described.

In far-eastern countries such as China, dragons often are described in ancient writings. Some of them are said to have been domesticated, and even were used to pull the chariots of Chinese rulers. Also, many of the ancient Chinese people are said to have used “dragon bones” for special medicines and potions. While visiting the continent of Asia in the 1200s, Italian explorer Marco Polo said that he saw long reptiles called Lindworms that easily ran as fast as a horse! In the British Isles, hundreds of dragon stories have come down to the present day. One account told of an animal with a crested head, teeth like a saw, and a long tail. Also, in 1449 in England, it was reported that two huge reptiles were seen fighting on the banks of the river Stour.

The epic poem Beowulf describes a battle in Denmark between a man named Beowulf and a terrible monster called Grendel. Beowulf was a real person. He lived from A.D. 495 to 583, and was king of a group of people known as the Geatingas. Grendel was a bipedal creature that possessed large, powerful jaws, and had small, weak forearms. (Beowulf slew him, you may recall, by tearing off one of those arms.) As Bill Cooper inquired:

Is there a predatory animal from the fossil record known to us, who had two massive hindlegs and two comparatively puny forelimbs? There is indeed.... I doubt that the reader needs to be guided by me as to which particular species of predatory dinosaur the details of his physical description fit best (1995, pp. 159,160).

Could it be—Tyrannosaurus rex?! Why not? The description of Grendel, recorded sometime before the tenth century A.D. (over nine centuries before the relatively recent discovery of dinosaur fossils), more closely resembles a Tyrannosaurus rex than any animal alive today. (NOTE: There is no indication that either Beowulf or Grendel was mythical in nature.)

[Lionz]

Here are images with words in them that are not mine depending on definition and I messed up doing uploading type stuff to get these for all I know maybe, but...

[Lionz]

[Lionz]

[Lionz]

[Lionz]

[BigBallinStalin]

DAMN! LIONZ ON THE WHEELS OF STEEL!!!

[Neoteny]

Neo,

What does geothermal energy have to do with the word external? Where has external usable energy been added to earth from not counting the sun?

Geothermal energy has nothing to do with external. It just provides the energy until the sun's energy could be harnessed. I can't think of any external energies. If I said there were more than just the sun, I misspoke.

What about those suggest to you that wolves and roses share common ancestry?

Let me put it this way. Orthologous genes suggest commonality of origin. I think you and I would agree with that. They are, in essence, copies (often slightly altered) of genes that are common in distantly related organisms. I don't know how exactly you reconcile that, but I assume that you are under the impression that a creator used genes as blueprints, and similar functions could be used across different species to achieve the same end. Who knows what you really think. What we find is that humans share certain genes with monkeys, and dogs share certain genes with cats, and that humans and monkeys share certain genes with dogs and cats. This can be interpreted either via a creator reusing his earlier work, or common ancestry. The simplest argument is common ancestry, because it doesn't require a complex intelligence to put everything together. This idea of common ancestry also meshes well all the other evidences that evolution from a single common ancestor has occurred. You might not find this intellectually satisfactory, I'll readily admit. I've come to the conclusion that you cannot imagine a world without a creator god. That's fine, and I hope someday you give it a try, because the theory of evolution bears its own weight without the need for any intelligent guiding. The fact is, we've discovered a process that not only could explain the origin and development of life, but does so in an elegant and effective way. If the theory continues to be upheld (originally by observation logic, most recently by confirmation of predictions by genetics, ecology, and molecular biology), then the case for it grows stronger. It would be very easy to disprove evolution (fossil rabbits in the precambrian), but all evidence points toward this process of change over time. It is a large theory, and it is effective despite that. Quite impressive, in my opinion.

There have been fewer trees between 3500 and 4500 years old than there are that are older than 5000 years according to what?

Basic math. If there have been trees for millions of years, then there would be more older trees than 5000 year old ones.

Has a living tree Ever been dated to more than 5000 years with tree ring dating?

I don't think so, but dead ones have.

I'm not saying I agree with everything at any site perhaps, but did the BBC not claim in 1999 that the Sahara was born 4,000 years before?

And why would that not be a coincidence that just happens to coincide with your belief system?

Dinosaurs have lived on earth with man and there's an abundance of evidence for that which you have not seen perhaps.

I have seen quite a bit of things called evidence (have you visited Ken Ham's creation museum?), and I am yet to be convinced. I'm open to anything you are willing to share, but I am quite convinced in the accuracy of radiometric dating, and I've seen a lot of hoaxes involving dinosaur tracks.

How much of a Pando wikipedia article have you read? You refer to answers that back me up?

The article says the average age of the stems is 130 years old, but the roots are much, much older. This talks about how they settled on an approximate age.

Tree experts also note that the organism's age cannot be determined with the level of precision found in tree rings; some claim Pando's age is closer to 1 million years.[4] Its current 80,000 year designation is based on a complex set of factors including the history of its local environment such as: The evidence indicating that there are few if any naturally occurring new aspens in most of the western United States since a climate shift took place 10,000 years ago and eliminated favorable soil conditions for seedlings; the rate of growth (including the differences of rates in distinct climates when accounting for its local-climate history, that males grow slower than females, and that aspens grow slower at higher elevations – Pando is at 2697 m, or 8,848 ft, above sea level); its size; and its genetic code in comparison to the mutations found among aspens born in the modern era.

If He created a diamond out of nothing and handed it to you five minutes later, what could you use to date it?

If he created a diamond out of nothing and handed it to me, I'd be a true believer. Beyond that I don't know off the top of my head. What has a half-life of a couple of minutes?

I'm not sure if there has been a water layer around earth specifically or so called outerspace in general or both or neither perhaps, but see sections called Genesis 1:6-7 and Genesis 1:20 and Genesis 2:5 maybe. Have you not read about a water canopy theory before a couple of weeks ago? What have I made up?

I have not heard the water canopy argument used in the context of doing anything with helium.

Have radiotmetric dating, biostratigraphy, magnetostratigraphy or chronostratigraphy been used to date non-organic earth?

Yes?

I'm not sure what has been meant by a number of things perhaps, but...

How about the fact that the Mississippi River has a delta in New Orleans that is more commensurate in size as predicted by a 4400-year period (since the time of the Great Flood)? Why is the Colorado River delta practically non-existent after sweeping away 1000 cubic miles of earth material to create the Grand Canyon over supposed “millions of years”? Could it be that it was created in a short period of time (unlike the Mississippi’s delta) and the 1000 cubic miles of dirt is far out into the Pacific?

The Colorado River has about 10000 cubic miles of sediment in its delta, and that's not including the stuff eroded by wind and and the dissolved limestone. Perhaps if you found a USGA map of the river delta, it might help you visualize that.

Is the Kiabab Uplift not about 10,000 feet above sea level? Does the Colorado River not enter the Grand Canyon at about 6,000 feet above sea level? And see this? Did the Colorado River flow uphill or not?
http://www.jcu.edu/philosophy/gensler/escalante.gif

Wow, I haven't looked at one of those in a while. Looks like it's flowing downhill in that picture. Let me explain to you why
this is silly. The river started at relatively close to the same level at both the beginning and the end of the canyon, and cut down through the rock at both ends at the same time. It's always flowed downhill, it just worked its way down in elevation. There's also stuff about rocks being lifted and the river changing course all over the place, but that's all complicated (though still explainable geologically).

Do you theorize that single floods have layed down multiple layers of sedimentary strata?

Sure, and single floods have laid down single layers, and multiple floods have laid down multiple layers. What's wrong with any of those?

What if single floods have and there was a global one less than 4,500 years ago?

Then, all over the planet, we would see the exact same pattern of sedimentation in the exact same order and the exact same sizes. We do not see that at all.

What would the word polystrate not showing up in an issue of Geology say whether that's the case or not?

Not just one issue. Any issue. That's a big deal.

Has there been a Geology article that has mentioned a fossil running through multiple layers of strata with or without mention of the word polystrate?

Yes, most of them do not use the word "polystrate." In fact, I don't know of any, but I imagine there are some.

We're living in an attempted novus ordo seclorum and certain things are suppressed perhaps.

I can't comment on that, but I suppose it's possible.

Who knows where aquifers have been and what has mixed with what?

Hydrogeologists. Didn't PLAYER do something like that?

What if there is even scripture called Genesis 7:17 that means to suggest flood waters lifted the ark only after forty days?

What if scripture is wrong? What if there is no evidence that backs up scripture (hint: there isn't).

If there was a global flood we should expect to find what? Widespread turbidites?

Nah, those can be found in any ocean. What we would find, like I said earlier, is a global pattern of sedimentation that matches up everywhere in the world. If someone found that, they'd pretty much prove the Bible is true, and, really, that's a really simple thing for which to look. Since it hasn't been found, I'm thinking it might just be a story with an interesting moral to it...

[Neoteny]

DJ Neoteny out.

[Lionz]

Neo,

Did you not just claim that there had always been external usable energy added to earth? Where did it come from when there was nothing on earth that could harness energy from sunlight if there was a time like that?

You just suggested that genetics can be viewed as evidence for common ancestry or a common designer? Would a lack of an intelligence really make putting anything together more simple?

If you came across a rabbit fossil while digging, you would treat it as an index fossil and use it to date itself as not being from a precambrian time maybe.

What if there have not been trees for millions of years? Do you have a source claiming a dead tree has been dated to more than 5,000 years with tree ring dating?

Maybe the Sahara being born 4,000 years before 1999 would be a coincidence backing me up for all I know and I am not even sure if I was born in 1983 or not, but how about we weigh evidence?

Were dinosaurs not described in texts and portrayed in artwork hundreds of years ago?

There are few if any naturally occurring new aspens in most of the western United States and 80,000 years is an estimate that's derived with the help one or more faulty assumption having to do with when climatic conditions have been suitable for seedling germination in the past perhaps.

Did you say helium and mean carbon?

Maybe we both said radiotmetric meaning radiometric. I'm not sure if radiometric dating, biostratigraphy, magnetostratigraphy or chronostratigraphy has been used to date non-organic earth perhaps... maybe you can find us stuff that claims they have.

Where did you read that the Colorado River has a delta with 10,000 cubic miles of sediment in it if you read that somewhere? All of Lake Ontario has a volume of 393 cubic miles maybe.

You said stuff having to do with the Colorago and elevation that I do not understand maybe. Can you elaborate?

Single floods have laid down multiple sedimentary layers?

What suggests to you that a global flood would lay down sedimentation in an identical order and thickness across the earth if something suggests that to you? Fountains broke open in certain places maybe.

How about you tell me if you come across an issue of Geology that refers to a single fossil running through multiple layers of strata?

PLAYER? You refer to a cc name?

You should not assume something means to suggest that boiling water lifted an ark off the earth whether there is scripture that's wrong or not perhaps. If you claim there's no evidence that backs up scripture, then can you define evidence for me?

[Neoteny]

Neo,

Did you not just claim that there had always been external usable energy added to earth?

Other than the sun? I don't think I have. Just the sun. Could you quote where I said such?

Where did it come from when there was nothing on earth that could harness energy from sunlight if there was a time like that?

Where did the energy come from? Geothermal or chemical reactions.

You just suggested that genetics can be viewed as evidence for common ancestry or a common designer?

Genetics can be used as evidence for anything. How strong it supports that theory is what counts. Genetics strongly supports the view of common ancestry.

Would a lack of an intelligence really make putting anything together more simple?

Yes. Why wouldn't it? Intelligence is an extremely complex thing.

If you came across a rabbit fossil while digging, you would treat it as an index fossil and use it to date itself as not being from a precambrian time maybe.

If I found a rabbit fossil, I would take note of the layer it was in, radiometrically date it, and see if there have been fossils found elsewhere in the same stratum and conditions. If it was decided that it showed up in the precambrian, that would be a significant blow to evolutionary theory.

What if there have not been trees for millions of years? Do you have a source claiming a dead tree has been dated to more than 5,000 years with tree ring dating?

As a matter of fact, I do.
http://www.arts.cornell.edu/dendro/ajatext.html

Maybe the Sahara being born 4,000 years before 1999 would be a coincidence backing me up for all I know and I am not even sure if I was born in 1983 or not, but how about we weigh evidence?

That's rather unfortunate that you are unsure of your birth year. I have a birth certificate that says I was born in 1985. Plus, the government backs that up, as well as my parents. This isn't exactly peer-reviewed, but there are certain things that are just common sense.

Were dinosaurs not described in texts and portrayed in artwork hundreds of years ago?

That's not quite a straightforward question. Were myths about dragons based on perceptions of dinosaur bones? Perhaps. Do I think dinosaurs have survived until recently? No. There's plenty of talk of gryphons and hydras and fairies and centaurs and mermaids too. I don't think very many of those were actually seen either.

There are few if any naturally occurring new aspens in most of the western United States and 80,000 years is an estimate that's derived with the help one or more faulty assumption having to do with when climatic conditions have been suitable for seedling germination in the past perhaps.

Perhaps. I wonder if you can tell me why those assumptions are faulty. Just saying they are doesn't make them so.

Did you say helium and mean carbon?

No. I'm pretty sure you were talking about Helium. I could be wrong.

Maybe we both said radiotmetric meaning radiometric. I'm not sure if radiometric dating, biostratigraphy, magnetostratigraphy or chronostratigraphy has been used to date non-organic earth perhaps... maybe you can find us stuff that claims they have.

Perhaps. What do you mean by non-organic earth?

Where did you read that the Colorado River has a delta with 10,000 cubic miles of sediment in it if you read that somewhere? All of Lake Ontario has a volume of 393 cubic miles maybe.

The actual source is cited in the following link, but it's not accessible for free online (Sykes 1937; Jennings and Thompson 1986). Sorry to disappoint. To be fair, that's not all from the Grand Canyon; it's from the entire Colorado River. It's not as big as the Mississippi River delta, but to call it "practically non-existent" is just blatantly wrong. Do you still trust that source?
http://fire.biol.wwu.edu/trent/alles/Ge ... Trough.pdf

You said stuff having to do with the Colorago and elevation that I do not understand maybe. Can you elaborate?

The idea is that the river did not flow uphill. It started at the top of the canyon and worked its way down. Geological activity after that fact (for example, chunks of land can rise and fall as faults move and rocks slide over and around each other) can raise or lower areas to confound observation of initial conditions, but we know quite a bit about how that works, and can tell how it happened by looking at patterns in the rock.

Single floods have laid down multiple sedimentary layers?

I believe you've mentioned in the past that it was possible yourself. Here's this picture. There are conditions other than just particle size that can contribute to layers forming after a flood. For example, if it floods, and the water sits for a bit and allows the particles to settle, and then more rain washes more sediment into the river, would that not add more layers to the initial set?

What suggests to you that a global flood would lay down sedimentation in an identical order and thickness across the earth if something suggests that to you? Fountains broke open in certain places maybe.

That might mix things up a bit, but if the whole earth was covered in water, all the sediment would mix around first, and then settle all at once. There would be that main layer (and it would be very big if it's a big flood) that we should be able to see. Do you think we wouldn't be able to see such a thing?

How about you tell me if you come across an issue of Geology that refers to a single fossil running through multiple layers of strata?

http://geology.gsapubs.org/content/33/5/337

PLAYER? You refer to a cc name?

I do. She might be avoiding this thread.

You should not assume something means to suggest that boiling water lifted an ark off the earth whether there is scripture that's wrong or not perhaps. If you claim there's no evidence that backs up scripture, then can you define evidence for me?

I don't think defining evidence is necessary, and I don't think I'm assuming anything out of the ordinary. The amount of water to create a global flood, if it existed underground, would be under tremendous pressure, as well as receiving some geothermal heat. If it all escaped to the surface, it would be boiling in the reduced pressure. This would have killed Noah, and his family, and all the animals.

There are plenty of evidences that could back up scripture. A worldwide flood layer would be one of them. We don't see that kind of thing.

I have a question and some pictures for you. If the Grand Canyon was formed by rushing flood water, how are these explained?



Note, this second image isn't from the Grand Canyon. It is from a canyon upstream on the Colorado, but was formed by the same river and process.



These are called meanders, and they are formed (from a geological perspective) over long periods of time due to things like rock composition. If the canyons were cut by a large amount of water, what caused these sudden directional changes?

[notyou2]

God on a jetski during the great flood?

[Lionz]

Neo,

You just said this on page 30 maybe...

There has always been external usable energy added to earth.

Where did external usable energy come to earth from when there was nothing on earth that could harness energy from sunlight? If there was a time like that?

If you were to check out five Shakespeare books from a library and the word gentlewoman showed up in each over twenty times, would that suggest to you that they evolved from eachother? If genetics can be used to argue for common ancestry or common design, what really suggests wolves and roses have common ancestry?

How would a lack of an intelligence make putting something together more simple if it would and would somehow?

When has a rabbit fossil been dated with a radiometric dating technique?

Where does that site or whatever mention a dead tree being dated to over 5,000 years? People might have tried to link trees together by trying to find patterns in rings, but consider this maybe...

http://www.answersingenesis.org/article ... econe-pine

Is there a single tree anywhere, dead or alive, that has been dated over 5,000 years with tree ring dating? If trees have been growing on earth for hundreds of millions of years, then what's up?

Do you theorize that humans found dinosaur bones hundreds of years ago and used them to portray dinosaurs in artwork?

95% of all fossils are marine invertebrates--clams, etc.
4.75% of all fossils are algae and plant fossils
0.2375% includes insects and other invertebrates
0.0125% includes all vertebrates, mainly fish. 95% of land vertebrate fossils consist of one bone fragment or tooth. For example, only about 1,200 dinosaur skeletons have been found as of 1994.
Dr. Morris points out that evolutionists say man has been on earth for one million years. Our present population growth is 2% per year. Starting with one man and woman, it would take only 1100 years to get 6 billion living humans, but if we have been around for one million years, the number of humans would have been 108600. [Morris, p. 70] That number is greater than the number of particles in the universe which is about 1080, according to Sir Arthur Eddington, a British astrophysicist. Of course, 108600 is a ridiculous example of uniformitarianism in this situation, but it does point out some difficulties for long ages.

I've come across one or more format related issue and that contains numbers that should be smaller and raised up and it should contain more and is a misquote for all I know maybe. Source here you can compare with perhaps...
http://www.creationinthecrossfire.com/d ... lMan1.html

If someone comes across a root system that conflicts with a theory of theirs having to do with climatic conditions in the past, should they twist what they see to fit the theory? Is that not what happened with Pando? What if He can cause plants to grow in any climate? What if the flood is not make believe and He directly caused thousands of aspens to grow out west right after it?

What would I use a water canopy theory for in regards to explaining a helium-4 level? There's a level of helium-4 on earth that backs me up perhaps.

I said non-organic earth meaning earth that was not organic maybe... maybe not sure if I was meaning earth free from things that have been alive or carbon-free earth or both or neither, but what's been used to date earth itself and not a fossil?

I was able to go to the pdf file or whatever without breaking out a credit card to do so perhaps. There might not actually be a source reference for 10,000 cubic miles there, but I don't guess someone made up 10,000 without there apparently being thousands of cubic miles of sediment perhaps. You refer to a quote by me that I have never trusted maybe.... maybe whether or not I even trust myself comes down to definition.

What would rising land rationally explain in regards to the grand canyon? Is the Kiabab Uplift not about 10,000 feet above sea level and does the Colorado River not enter the Grand Canyon at about 6,000 feet above sea level?

I have been suggesting that single floods can lay down multiple sedimentary layers perhaps. I'm not claiming that a non-global flood can't lead to there being polystrate fossils, but I'm also not claiming that it has ever taken thousands of years for a foot of sedimentary layers to form. Do you theorize that it has? Has a single flood layed down over a dozen sedimentary layers meters apart? If so, what can sedimentary layers really tell us about how old anything is?

Fountains broke open in certain places and we should not expect to find a single identical layer of sediment across the earth by any means perhaps.

Does that Geology page or whatever actually say that a single fossil is running through multiple layers of strata?

I'm not claiming there was a preflood earth with no mountains, but would a cubic foot of water not theoretically be able to cover a perfect sphere larger than the earth? Earth has even expanded in size and used to be smaller maybe.

Did the Mt. St. Helens eruption not produce one or more meandering canyon in 1980? Whether or not in ash and not water laid sediment? Also...



That's derived from a slideshow thing and derived with the help of one or more copy screen and paste to Paint technique and cropping and should contain more for all I know and does not contains words of my own depending on definition at least maybe.

[Frigidus]

Lionz is such a downer. I need to stop coming into this thread.

[daddy1gringo]

How many times do I have to tell you? There's no such thing as Evidence for Dog.

What do you get when you cross an insomniac, an agnostic, and a dyslexic?
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Somebody who stays up all night wondering if there is a dog.

[notyou2]

How many times do I have to tell you? There's no such thing as Evidence for Dog.

What do you get when you cross an insomniac, an agnostic, and a dyslexic?
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Somebody who stays up all night wondering if there is a dog.

Thats your best post ever strider

[AAFitz]

I have some pictures of aliens. Ergo, life on other planets must exist. It is impossible for a human being to conjure up something with his imagination.

Proof of alien life:

http://www.avatarmovie.com/

Aliens must exist. There tee shirts, mugs and action figures. Just like your proof.

[Ray Rider]

That's derived from a slideshow thing and derived with the help of one or more copy screen and paste to Paint technique and cropping and should contain more for all I know and does not contains words of my own depending on definition at least maybe.

Epic disclaimer.

[Lionz]

Fitz,

If humans portrayed dinosaurs in artwork across earth hundreds and hundreds of years ago, what did they look at to do it?

[Frigidus]

Fitz,

If humans portrayed dinosaurs in artwork across earth hundreds and hundreds of years ago, what did they look at to do it?

Whoa, three-headed dogs must exist too!

[Lionz]

Frig,

Are you arguing that dinosaurs have not existed?

[Frigidus]

Frig,

Are you arguing that dinosaurs have not existed?

I'm arguing that the mythical creatures in ancient art weren't real, and that thinking a picture of a big lizard monster demonstrates that humans had lived when dinosaurs were still around isn't logical.

[jonesthecurl]

You can't fool me. I've seen The Flintstones.

[Lionz]

Fitz,

Did humans portray actual dinosaurs in artwork across earth hundreds and hundreds of years ago? If humans did, what did they look at to do it?