ObamaCare - exchanges ,report your states options!

[PLAYER57832]

My anger towards this bill has the following components: (1) It doesn't do what everyone says it does, and does virtually nothing until 2014 (when President Obama will be finishing up his second term by the way), and (2) It costs $940 billion, is paid for by tax increases and cuts which do not add up to $940 billion, yet decreases the budget deficit by $138 billion.

So, my concern is that it doesn't do what it needs to do (whether you're liberal or not) and it costs way too much for what it actually does. You know why? Because we had to do it as fast as possible.

Agree with all but your last sentence. They "why" is that most Republicans and even a few Democrats went for their personal pet ideas instead of going for the original bill, which would have actually done most of what you say above.

At this point, there was no waiting. Either it passed now or would be years before anything else was even considered. Given that, I am glad it passed, imperfect though it definitely is. Better that most goals are reached in 8 years than never.

[rockfist]

Its just flat morally wrong to mandate that people pay for things for others. I owe a duty to my family and to some extent friends and extended family. By mandating that I pay for people outside of those groups you weaken my ability to take care of people within those groups and that is morally wrong whether the majority of people in our country support it or not, and in the case of this bill they do not.

I'm not opposed to giving money to aid others, but it should be discretionary not mandated by the government throught the threat of force. I give money every year for scholarships and other worthy causes. If the government started mandating that I do that I would resent the hell out of it.

I just don't understand how anyone can get it into their head that its ok to take from others through force. I wasn't raised that way and I will not raise my children that way. When my older daughter takes something from my younger daughter through force we make her give it back.

Well, then you should like this bill, because a big goal is ensuring that less of your money goes to paying for the uninsured.

or, didn't you realize that they are a big part of why our healthcare costs are so high?

There are other ways to solve that problem that would reduce costs to people who have healthcare and would not increase taxes one dime.

[rockfist]

Its just flat morally wrong to mandate that people pay for things for others.

Hey, guess what! Nobody on the left gives a shit about a moral viewpoint!

There I fixed it for you.

[PLAYER57832]

There are other ways to solve that problem that would reduce costs to people who have healthcare and would not increase taxes one dime.

Yes, letting people rot in the streets.

Sorry, but the rest of us like to live in the modern world. See, though there are a few most of us would be happy to "let rot", they have this nasy habit of spreading their illnesses around to the rest of us and rather causing a mess, besides.

[rockfist]

Did you see the capital mall?

Apparently the Democrat party leadership does not live in the modern world.

[PLAYER57832]

Its just flat morally wrong to mandate that people pay for things for others.

Hey, guess what! Nobody except the extreme right wing gives a shit about a moral viewpoint!

There I fixed it for you.

Fixed it for real this time.....

[jbrettlip]

This bill will never stand. Too many lawsuits are already being filed against the constitutionality of it. And they are absolutely right. America is based on a limited government, not what we currently have. Hopefully this is the first step in reestablishing the original intentions of the Constitution.

[rockfist]

This bill will never stand. Too many lawsuits are already being filed against the constitutionality of it. And they are absolutely right. America is based on a limited government, not what we currently have. Hopefully this is the first step in reestablishing the original intentions of the Constitution.

I second that statement.

[PLAYER57832]

This bill will never stand. Too many lawsuits are already being filed against the constitutionality of it. And they are absolutely right. America is based on a limited government, not what we currently have. Hopefully this is the first step in reestablishing the original intentions of the Constitution.

Original intentions?

Oh you mean like letting rich white men (landowners only) decide what's right for the rest of us!

[rockfist]

Its just flat morally wrong to mandate that people pay for things for others.

Hey, guess what! Nobody except the extreme right wing gives a shit about a moral viewpoint!

There I fixed it for you.

Fixed it for real this time.....

If you have to be extreme right wing to have a moral viewpoint then we need a lot more extreme right wing people in this world.

[thegreekdog]

My overall response is that this will cost a whole hell of a lot more than we think it does, partly because only 6 years of the plan is "paid for" and partly because I don't think this will change a whole lot of who is insured and who is not. Can anyone find that somewhere? Based on my reading of msn, it doesn't look like a whole lot of people who are currently uninsured will become insured magically as a result of this bill. So, those costs that we currently incur to provide healthcare to those people will still be costs going forward. And then we'll have the Heatlhcare Bill #2... which will be government insurance (the original plan). At least, that's what I think will happen.

I figured it actually looks like those who are currently unisured will become insured. The uninsured are those who can't really pay (yet aren't completely poor) those who can't get insurance because of pre-existing conditions and those who simply choose not to have insurance.

I dunno, who else isn't insured?

Those who are currently uninsured won't magically become insured because of this bill!!!! Here let me break it down:

(1) People who live below the poverty line
Now - Get Medicaid
Post-Bill - Get Medicaid

(2) People whose employers provide insurance
Now - Get insurance
Post-Bill - Get insurance (and have to pay tax depending upon the insurance)

(3) People who do not have insurance but can afford insurance
Now - No insurance, but can pay for shit
Post-Bill - Have to get insurance or pay a fine

(4) People who cannot afford insurance but live above the poverty line
Now - No insurance, have to pay for their own procedures or else go bankrupt
Post-Bill - Have to pay for their own insurance and get a subsidy the government

#4 is the only difference we're paying for, and it's $940 billion. $940 fucking billion! 2014!!!! COME ON PEOPLE! WAKE THE f*ck UP! This bill does nothing and costs $940 billion!!!

[Titanic]

It ends a lot of the cruel practices of the insurance agencies within 6 months. Preexisting condition, children upto 26, dropping coverage etc.... I put a list a couple page back. These all kick in before the real reforms in 2014 which help the underinsured as well as the uninsured. Greek, the CBO said that comparable coverage will fall by about 14% because of this bill so people will either save a lot of money or will be able to by greater coverage because of this bill.

[Night Strike]

It ends a lot of the cruel practices of the insurance agencies within 6 months. Preexisting condition, children upto 26, dropping coverage etc.... I put a list a couple page back. These all kick in before the real reforms in 2014 which help the underinsured as well as the uninsured. Greek, the CBO said that comparable coverage will fall by about 14% because of this bill so people will either save a lot of money or will be able to by greater coverage because of this bill.

End the cruel practices of the insurance companies so that we can be subject to the cruel practices of the government?? Sounds like a horrible trade-off to me. By mandating that companies must accept all preexisting conditions without charging those people higher premiums, insurance companies WILL fold. Then we will all be absorbed into the government plan, which is exactly what these progressive socialists want. Because once we are in their system, they can force us to pay for abortions, deny coverage for those deemed unfit, and make us wait for poor care while bureaucrats evaluate our claims.

[thegreekdog]

It ends a lot of the cruel practices of the insurance agencies within 6 months. Preexisting condition, children upto 26, dropping coverage etc.... I put a list a couple page back. These all kick in before the real reforms in 2014 which help the underinsured as well as the uninsured. Greek, the CBO said that comparable coverage will fall by about 14% because of this bill so people will either save a lot of money or will be able to by greater coverage because of this bill.

When did they say that? Can you give me a link? Seriously, you know me, I'm not being sarcastic.

[Snorri1234]

Its just flat morally wrong to mandate that people pay for things for others.

Hey, guess what! Nobody on the left gives a shit about a moral viewpoint!

There I fixed it for you.

No seriously, I'm not joking. Your entire moral code is repugnant and offensive to the majority of people.

[jbrettlip]

This bill will never stand. Too many lawsuits are already being filed against the constitutionality of it. And they are absolutely right. America is based on a limited government, not what we currently have. Hopefully this is the first step in reestablishing the original intentions of the Constitution.

Original intentions?

Oh you mean like letting rich white men (landowners only) decide what's right for the rest of us!

Yes (I am a white land owner).

Seriously the only good thing in this bill is preexisting conditions.

[PLAYER57832]

It ends a lot of the cruel practices of the insurance agencies within 6 months. Preexisting condition, children upto 26, dropping coverage etc.... I put a list a couple page back. These all kick in before the real reforms in 2014 which help the underinsured as well as the uninsured. Greek, the CBO said that comparable coverage will fall by about 14% because of this bill so people will either save a lot of money or will be able to by greater coverage because of this bill.

When did they say that? Can you give me a link? Seriously, you know me, I'm not being sarcastic.

Here is a quote from MSNBC. It is the closest I could find. Hopefully Titanic has something better.
A: The bill is estimated to cost $940 billion over a decade. But because of higher taxes and fees and billions of dollars in Medicare payment cuts to providers, the bill would narrow the federal budget deficit by $138 billion over 10 years, according to the Congressional Budget Office.

If you have a high income, you face higher taxes. Starting in 2013, individuals would pay a higher Medicare payroll tax of 2.35 percent on earnings of more than $200,000 a year and couples earning more than $250,000, up from the current 1.45 percent. In addition, you'd face an additional 3.8 percent tax on unearned income such as dividends and interest over the threshold.

Starting in 2018, the bill would also impose a 40 percent excise tax on the portion of most employer-sponsored health coverage (excluding dental and vision) that exceeds $10,200 a year for individuals and $27,500 for families.

The bill also would raise the threshold for deducting unreimbursed medical expenses from 7.5 percent of adjusted gross income to 10 percent.

The bill also would limit the amount of money you can put in a flexible spending account to pay medical expenses to $2,500 starting in 2013. Those using an indoor tanning salon will pay a 10 percent tax starting this year.

and here is the link if you want to read the rest of it: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34609984/ns ... ?GT1=43001

[Phatscotty]

Its just flat morally wrong to mandate that people pay for things for others.

Hey, guess what! Nobody on the left gives a shit about a moral viewpoint!

There I fixed it for you.

No seriously, I'm not joking. Your entire moral code is repugnant and offensive to the majority of people.

coming from the super-minority and hands down least respected poster in the forum.

Just saying

[PLAYER57832]

It ends a lot of the cruel practices of the insurance agencies within 6 months. Preexisting condition, children upto 26, dropping coverage etc.... I put a list a couple page back. These all kick in before the real reforms in 2014 which help the underinsured as well as the uninsured. Greek, the CBO said that comparable coverage will fall by about 14% because of this bill so people will either save a lot of money or will be able to by greater coverage because of this bill.

End the cruel practices of the insurance companies so that we can be subject to the cruel practices of the government?? Sounds like a horrible trade-off to me. By mandating that companies must accept all preexisting conditions without charging those people higher premiums, insurance companies WILL fold. Then we will all be absorbed into the government plan, which is exactly what these progressive socialists want. Because once we are in their system, they can force us to pay for abortions, deny coverage for those deemed unfit, and make us wait for poor care while bureaucrats evaluate our claims.

And then the world will stop turning and we will all be swallowed up by a black hole

[Nobunaga]

It ends a lot of the cruel practices of the insurance agencies within 6 months. Preexisting condition, children upto 26, dropping coverage etc.... I put a list a couple page back. These all kick in before the real reforms in 2014 which help the underinsured as well as the uninsured. Greek, the CBO said that comparable coverage will fall by about 14% because of this bill so people will either save a lot of money or will be able to by greater coverage because of this bill.

End the cruel practices of the insurance companies so that we can be subject to the cruel practices of the government?? Sounds like a horrible trade-off to me. By mandating that companies must accept all preexisting conditions without charging those people higher premiums, insurance companies WILL fold. Then we will all be absorbed into the government plan, which is exactly what these progressive socialists want. Because once we are in their system, they can force us to pay for abortions, deny coverage for those deemed unfit, and make us wait for poor care while bureaucrats evaluate our claims.

And then the world will stop turning and we will all be swallowed up by a black hole

... Nice dodge.

...

[Phatscotty]

Is the IRS really in charge of Health Care?

[notyou2]

America has turned into its worst nightmare....it has become........COMMUNIST........ohh, the horror.

[Nobunaga]

Is the IRS really in charge of Health Care?

... Not in charge, but tasked with the responsibility of finding and fining folks in non-compliance with the new "You must be insured" thing.

...

[Symmetry]

Is the IRS really in charge of Health Care?

... Not in charge, but tasked with the responsibility of finding and fining folks in non-compliance with the new "You must be insured" thing.

...

Policemen blamed for enforcing the law?

[Nobunaga]

Is the IRS really in charge of Health Care?

... Not in charge, but tasked with the responsibility of finding and fining folks in non-compliance with the new "You must be insured" thing.

...

Policemen blamed for enforcing the law?

... Cute, but make the connection for me. I'm not seeing the obvious connection between the Internal Revenue Service and health care "reform".

...<edit> Is this it? From their web site.

The IRS Mission
Provide America's taxpayers top quality service by helping them understand and meet their tax responsibilities and by applying the tax law with integrity and fairness to all.

This mission statement describes our role and the public’s expectation about how we should perform that role.

In the United States, the Congress passes tax laws and requires taxpayers to comply.
The taxpayer’s role is to understand and meet his or her tax obligations.
The IRS role is to help the large majority of compliant taxpayers with the tax law, while ensuring that the minority who are unwilling to comply pay their fair share.