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Re: Socialized Healthcare

Postby Nobunaga on Tue Mar 30, 2010 12:43 pm

... Thought this was funny.

Let me get this straight...

The new health care plan was written by a committee whose chairman says he doesn't understand it,

passed by a congress that hasn't read it but exempts themselves from it,

signed by a president that is also exempt from it, hasn't read it and who smokes,

with funding administered by a treasury chief who didn't pay his taxes,

all to be overseen by a surgeon general who is obese,

and financed by a country that is broke.

What the hell could possibly go wrong???


...
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Re: Socialized Healthcare

Postby PLAYER57832 on Tue Mar 30, 2010 2:19 pm

Nobunaga wrote:

What the hell could possibly go wrong???[/b][/color]

...

It might actually work.
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Re: Socialized Healthcare

Postby Snorri1234 on Tue Mar 30, 2010 2:23 pm

Nobunaga wrote: it and who smokes,


Wait....how is that relevant?
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Re: Socialized Healthcare

Postby john9blue on Tue Mar 30, 2010 2:35 pm

Snorri1234 wrote:
Nobunaga wrote: it and who smokes,


Wait....how is that relevant?


Yeah Nobu. This small detail undermines your entire point.
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Re: Socialized Healthcare

Postby GabonX on Tue Mar 30, 2010 2:44 pm

PLAYER57832 wrote:
Nobunaga wrote:

What the hell could possibly go wrong???[/b][/color]

...

It might actually work.

It might.

It also may ruin the chance your children had to live lives worth living.

It really is quite a gamble.
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Re: Socialized Healthcare

Postby Neoteny on Tue Mar 30, 2010 2:45 pm

Yeesh. And you guys say climatologists are fear-mongers...
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Re: Socialized Healthcare

Postby GabonX on Tue Mar 30, 2010 2:49 pm

Neoteny wrote:Yeesh. And you guys say climatologists are fear-mongers...

Did we say that?
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Re: Socialized Healthcare

Postby Neoteny on Tue Mar 30, 2010 3:09 pm

GabonX wrote:
Neoteny wrote:Yeesh. And you guys say climatologists are fear-mongers...

Did we say that?


You specifically? Perhaps not (though likely implied). Climate-change denialists, most definitely.
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Re: Socialized Healthcare

Postby Phatscotty on Tue Mar 30, 2010 3:14 pm

Neoteny wrote:
GabonX wrote:
Neoteny wrote:Yeesh. And you guys say climatologists are fear-mongers...

Did we say that?


You specifically? Perhaps not (though likely implied). Climate-change denialists, most definitely.

The climate has basically been the same for 70 million years. Just like socialized health care....cuz ...
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Re: Socialized Healthcare

Postby PLAYER57832 on Tue Mar 30, 2010 3:25 pm

The amazing part is you actually believe what you write.
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Re: Socialized Healthcare

Postby thegreekdog on Tue Mar 30, 2010 4:17 pm

I'll try not to get too tax technical here, but there is at least one unintended consequence of the bill that has recently been revealed.

When a company presents its financial statements for purposes of its financial reporting, it takes into account potential "tax assets" which are essentially tax benefits it can take in the future. These "tax assets" help the company better understand the company's potential tax liability (and therefore future post-tax earnings) in future years.

There is a federal subsidy for companies that provide post-retirement medical benefits. The federal government subsidizes 70% of the cost and the company pays the remaining 30%. The entire 100% is deductible. However, as a result of this bill, the cost is no longer deductible. So, now the companies that booked this tax benefit will no longer have the benefit and thus will be required to adjust their earnings.

So, a couple of things come to mind here:
(1) Congress is waxing "we didn't know" about this. I'm fairly certain that they were told this was a consequence of the bill.
(2) Congress is holding hearings because at least one company has said they are going to reevaluate post-retirement benefits, and obviously Congress does not like that.
(3) I believe Congress will amend that portion of the law and permit companies to take that deduction in future years, which raises the question as to whether the law will be revenue-neutral anymore (if it was in the first place). The answer is no, by the way.
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Re: Socialized Healthcare

Postby Snorri1234 on Tue Mar 30, 2010 4:19 pm

john9blue wrote:
Snorri1234 wrote:
Nobunaga wrote: it and who smokes,


Wait....how is that relevant?


Yeah Nobu. This small detail undermines your entire point.



No it's just....wtf? It's like OBAMA SMOKES THEREFORE ANYTHING HE DOES IS WROOOONG or something.
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Re: Socialized Healthcare

Postby Nobunaga on Tue Mar 30, 2010 4:43 pm

thegreekdog wrote:I'll try not to get too tax technical here, but there is at least one unintended consequence of the bill that has recently been revealed.

When a company presents its financial statements for purposes of its financial reporting, it takes into account potential "tax assets" which are essentially tax benefits it can take in the future. These "tax assets" help the company better understand the company's potential tax liability (and therefore future post-tax earnings) in future years.

There is a federal subsidy for companies that provide post-retirement medical benefits. The federal government subsidizes 70% of the cost and the company pays the remaining 30%. The entire 100% is deductible. However, as a result of this bill, the cost is no longer deductible. So, now the companies that booked this tax benefit will no longer have the benefit and thus will be required to adjust their earnings.

So, a couple of things come to mind here:
(1) Congress is waxing "we didn't know" about this. I'm fairly certain that they were told this was a consequence of the bill.
(2) Congress is holding hearings because at least one company has said they are going to reevaluate post-retirement benefits, and obviously Congress does not like that.
(3) I believe Congress will amend that portion of the law and permit companies to take that deduction in future years, which raises the question as to whether the law will be revenue-neutral anymore (if it was in the first place). The answer is no, by the way.


... A list of companies that, just within the last week, have outlined how they expect to change their ways in line with what you're talking about.

Farm-equipment manufacturer John Deere "said it expects its expenses to rise by around $150 million on an after-tax basis, mainly in the second quarter, as a result of the legislation."

Verizon "told employees in an email Tuesday that Verizon's costs will go up in the near term, pinpointing a tax-subsidy reduction for retiree health benefits."

Heavy-equipment manufacturer Caterpillar "said that its first-quarter earnings will be hit with a $100 million after-tax charge under tax law changes attached to the new health care reform legislation."

AK Steele Holding Corp., "the third largest U.S. steelmaker by sales, said it will record a non-cash charge of about $31 million resulting from the health-care overhaul signed into law by President Barack Obama. The charge will be recorded in the first quarter of 2010."

Valero Energy "will take a $15 million to $20 million charge to second-quarter earnings for the same reason."

Medical-device maker Medtronic "warned that new taxes on its products could force it to lay off a thousand workers."

And now, let's add the biggest one to the list ... AT&T. It says that it will take a $1 billion charge against earnings in the first quarter because of Obamacare.

... That's "billion," folks, with a "b." This is because of changes to how Medicare subsidies are taxed. AT&T also says that it may cut benefits offered to current and retired workers. Retirees could lose their prescription drug coverage altogether.

... The rest is all Boortz:

Then, our masters aren't happy that some of these companies have come out of the gate so quickly with their predictions of negative economic consequences under ObamaCare. Remember, as The Community Organizer told us time after time .. ObamaCare would lower costs, create jobs, lower the deficit and keep asteroids from striking the earth until the year 8314.

So ... looks like it's time to flex the good old government muscles. And who better tto do that than our friend Henry Waxman from California? Henry Waxman has summoned the executives from some of these companies to Capitol Hill to defend these assessments. That's right. Waxman wants these evil companies to come to Washington and testify as to exactly why they complied with the law. Waxman is also demanding that these bring internal company documents on their healthcare finances. The hearing is set for April 21. Here is the letter Waxman sent to several executives, including AT&T: "After the president signed the health care reform bill into law, your company announced that provisions in the law could adversely affect your ability to provide health insurance ... The new law is designed to expand coverage and bring down costs, so your assertions are a matter of concern ... [these decisions] appear to conflict with independent analyses."

Independent analysis? Waxman means "political analysis."

This is the new America under a president who considers the private sector to be "the enemy." The purpose of Waxman's little dog and pony show is to intimidate corporate America. Don't embarrass Obama right after his wonderful victory with ObamaCare. Remember ... government, not the private sector, is paramount in our country right now. Businesses exist to support government, not the other way around
.
...

... And these guys are giving me a hard time for pointng out that the Bamster smokes. Talk about distracted.

...
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Re: Socialized Healthcare

Postby thegreekdog on Tue Mar 30, 2010 4:46 pm

By the way, and I just throw this out there... let's say these companies have to take a hit. Guess what? The CEO and the board are not the people taking the hit; you're the people that are going to be taking the hit. So, when AT&T has to raise their prices or not provide post-retirement benefits, it's on us. Again, just a little FYI from your friendly neighborhood racist, homophobe Tea Party member.
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Re: Socialized Healthcare

Postby Titanic on Tue Mar 30, 2010 5:04 pm

thegreekdog wrote:By the way, and I just throw this out there... let's say these companies have to take a hit. Guess what? The CEO and the board are not the people taking the hit; you're the people that are going to be taking the hit. So, when AT&T has to raise their prices or not provide post-retirement benefits, it's on us. Again, just a little FYI from your friendly neighborhood racist, homophobe Tea Party member.


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Re: Socialized Healthcare

Postby spurgistan on Tue Mar 30, 2010 5:55 pm

A few interesting extra items in the bill This doesn't even mention the college loans thing.

On a side note, how odd is it that, despite apparently nobody having read the bill, several Republican senators were able to spot what were "probably drafting errors" in the bill that made it need to go back to the house after the first round of reconciliation voting? Does nobody else find that odd?
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Re: Socialized Healthcare

Postby notyou2 on Tue Mar 30, 2010 5:58 pm

Their aids read it and told them of the errata?
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Re: Socialized Healthcare

Postby jbrettlip on Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:03 pm

Democrats and liberals are lazy and stupid. They look to the gov to help them in every way. Europeans are no better, in fact much worse. It is the first welfare continent.
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Re: Socialized Healthcare

Postby notyou2 on Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:45 pm

Can you please make that statement into more generalizations. I am having trouble with it.
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Re: Socialized Healthcare

Postby notyou2 on Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:46 pm

Oh, and you left out Canadians and Mexicans.
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Re: Socialized Healthcare

Postby Phatscotty on Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:47 pm

thegreekdog wrote:By the way, and I just throw this out there... let's say these companies have to take a hit. Guess what? The CEO and the board are not the people taking the hit; you're the people that are going to be taking the hit. So, when AT&T has to raise their prices or not provide post-retirement benefits, it's on us. Again, just a little FYI from your friendly neighborhood racist, homophobe Tea Party member.

I dont mind being broke so long as my ass-hole neighbor is healthy
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Re: Socialized Healthcare

Postby PLAYER57832 on Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:52 pm

thegreekdog wrote:By the way, and I just throw this out there... let's say these companies have to take a hit. Guess what? The CEO and the board are not the people taking the hit; you're the people that are going to be taking the hit. So, when AT&T has to raise their prices or not provide post-retirement benefits, it's on us. Again, just a little FYI from your friendly neighborhood racist, homophobe Tea Party member.

It's called the cost of doing business. The other option, having us support their employees artificially through our taxes, means even those who are not customers are paying.
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Re: Socialized Healthcare

Postby jbrettlip on Tue Mar 30, 2010 10:21 pm

PLAYER57832 wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:By the way, and I just throw this out there... let's say these companies have to take a hit. Guess what? The CEO and the board are not the people taking the hit; you're the people that are going to be taking the hit. So, when AT&T has to raise their prices or not provide post-retirement benefits, it's on us. Again, just a little FYI from your friendly neighborhood racist, homophobe Tea Party member.

It's called the cost of doing business. The other option, having us support their employees artificially through our taxes, means even those who are not customers are paying.


hmmm..so healthcare costs will decrease, while EVERYTHING else increases in price. I thought we weren't going to inflate ourselves out of our debt problem....

I just don't understand why, IF YOU PAY TAXES IN THIS COUNTRY, YOU AREN'T PAYING ENOUGH, and if you DON'T PAY TAXES, YOU SHOULD GET MORE.

All the talk about drunk drivers, but what about fat fucks? Or people with retard kids? We can find out there kid is retarded, so just abort them! It is the left wing solution, so why are these kids all on disability now? Oh thats right, it is a hand out. I am so glad I paid 50k in tax last year, to give it to earthquake victims in Haiti etc. This country is lost....congrats Adolf Pelosi you fucking traitor.
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Re: Socialized Healthcare

Postby karel on Tue Mar 30, 2010 10:28 pm

well its better then nothing...so i'm for it
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Re: Socialized Healthcare

Postby Phatscotty on Tue Mar 30, 2010 10:33 pm

karel wrote:well its better then nothing...so i'm for it

sounds like a lot of people are going to be laid off, in an already "worst economy since the great depression". How is that better than nothing? a job is way more important. somebody needs to pay those taxes! it's a double negative!
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