Logic dictates that there is a God!

[heavycola]

But you said that it was disguised truth, so which is it? If the text of Revelation is a disguise, how can we even consider taking it literally.

Part of it are symbolic (ie. "giant locusts"... "beast with 10 horns") But the overall writing is literal.... we just have to figure out what these symbols mean.... and are doing so.

Giant locusts are symbolic, the four corners of the earth are symbolic, yet god making eve from adam's rib is the literal truth....

Why would the perfect word from a perfect being need all this interpretation? Either make it 100% true, or don't. A metaphor is, definably, a lie. Therefore god is a liar and therefore not perfect.

Hmmm it doesn't take a whole lota effort to see what is symbolic and what is not. Ever see a giant locust? Or a beast with 10 horns? Yet... I'm sure you've seen a woman before. This isn't rocket science.

YES IT DOES. you believe in a lot of krazee stuff you have never seen - a giant locust is fairly pedestrian by comparison... why not believe that giant locusts exist?

OT was written 4,000 years ago, let's say. Everyone thought the world was flat back then. You know otherwise (although why you buy this and not evolution is beyond me). Yet the guy who wrote Job must have known the earth was round and used a metaphor instead. Yeah jay, that's not rocket science.

I have seen a woman before. What I have never seen is a man's rib being removed to turn into a woman. Can YOU not see the difference?

[2dimes]

Now for a true story, you don't have to believe it if you prefer. I can't prove it.

I was an appretice electrician many years ago. My journeyman came running down a ladder with a startled look on his face. Our foreman asked what he was afraid of.

He answered a "giant moth". The foreman started laughing quite hard at him and said, "You're afraid of a moth?" He defended himself by saying "The thing is huge!"

I decided I would like to see a moth that could scare a grown man. I went up the ladder and on top of the switch gear was the largest insect I can recall seeing in real life. It was the size of a bird, say a large sparrow. (well the ones around here.)

I would estimate the wing span to be maybe 8-10 inches.

Since I was wearing gloves I picked the thing up came down from the ladder and chased the foreman with it. He ran like a frightened girl. I taunted him "You're not afraid of a moth are you?"

It is one of my favorite memories of being at work ever!

[unriggable]

What if there is giant locusts?

There aren't. Humans occupy almost every last chunk of Earth, we've never seen any. Normally I'm against the whole idea of "what I don't see isn't there" but these are giant locusts - you'd think that in the thousands of years of kept records that we would have seen some.

Are you kidding here? I really can't tell if you're joking or don't know that there's some fairly vast jungle areas that we can't get into. Where they sometimes find new species of animals that have never been seen before.

You havn't been to saskatchawan to check out the size of them locusts some years.

The Bible was written around the middle East, which A. Has been populated for some time, so we would see them again and B. Is nowhere near Saskatchewan.

[Backglass]

Hmmm it doesn't take a whole lota effort to see what is symbolic and what is not. Ever see a giant locust? Or a beast with 10 horns? Yet... I'm sure you've seen a woman before. This isn't rocket science.

You are correct...It does not take a whole lot of effort to see what is symbolic or not...like a man parting an ocean or another man turning water into wine.

But thats diffrerent, isn't jay. More picking and choosing the parts you like to believe I am sure.

[Xayath]

ODD

[jay_a2j]

Hmmm it doesn't take a whole lota effort to see what is symbolic and what is not. Ever see a giant locust? Or a beast with 10 horns? Yet... I'm sure you've seen a woman before. This isn't rocket science.

You are correct...It does not take a whole lot of effort to see what is symbolic or not...like a man parting an ocean or another man turning water into wine.

But thats diffrerent, isn't jay. More picking and choosing the parts you like to believe I am sure.

Well start by taking God out of that tiny box you have Him in..... you'd be amazed at what He can do other than part a sea or turning water into wine.

[Aradhus]

Wow... He created deficient human beings.. He's got mad skills.

[WL_southerner]

umm

[Backglass]

Well start by taking God out of that tiny box you have Him in.....

Leprechauns, Santa Claus, Zues, Poseidon, Shiva, and all the other gods don't exist jay, therefor I have no box.

you'd be amazed at what He can do other than part a sea or turning water into wine.

Well, evidently your god can't cure two things at once now can he. Anyway...thanks for avoiding the point and thus proving mine. YOU have chosen which parts of your book are "real" and which are symbolic.

I just take it to it's logical conclusion and say it's all symbolic.

[WL_southerner]

santa claus was a real person, a pagan

[Xayath]

odd

[jay_a2j]

santa claus was a real person, a pagan

You can't be rational with backglass, it goes against everything he was raised not to believe in.

[Backglass]

santa claus was a real person, a pagan

He was huh? Please give me a link or two about this "real pagan person" named Santa Claus. Please do a little googling instead of just taking the word of paranoid preachers and get back to me.

You can't be rational with backglass, it goes against everything he was raised not to believe in.

You mean indoctrinated into the family cult since birth, like you? At least I was given the chance...you had none. But hey...mommy & daddy are very proud of you at the pancake breakfasts, I'm sure.

I am still waiting patiently for your rational explanation on how YOU can pick and choose which parts of your most sacred texts are real and which are symbolic. I cant wait to hear it!

I am also still waiting to hear your rational answer to why your god supposedly healed your terminal illness, yet didn't touch the terminal addiction you had at the same time...and still have to this day. Why is that?

Tick Tock jay!

[Anarkistsdream]

He was huh? Please give me a link or two about this "real pagan person" named Santa Claus. Please do a little googling and get back to me.

Whereas the importance of relics and the business associated with pilgrims and patron saints caused the remains of most saints to be spread over several churches in several countries, St Nicholas is unique in that most of his bones have been preserved in one spot: his grave crypt in Bari. Even with the still continuing miracle of the manna, the Roman Catholic Church has allowed for one scientific survey of the bones. In the late 1950s, during a restoration of the chapel, it allowed a team of hand-picked scientists to photograph and measure the contents of the crypt grave.

In the summer of 2005, the report of these measurements was sent to a forensic laboratory in England. The review of the data revealed that the historical St Nicholas was barely five feet in height (while not exactly small, still shorter than average, even for his time) and had a broken nose.

In his most famous exploit however, a poor man had three daughters but could not afford a proper dowry for them. This meant that they would remain unmarried and probably, in absence of any other possible employment would have to become prostitutes. Hearing of the poor man's plight, Nicholas decided to help him but being too modest (or too shy) to help the man in public, he went to his house under the cover of night and threw three purses filled with gold coins through the window opening onto the man's floor.

[jay_a2j]

santa claus was a real person, a pagan

He was huh? Please give me a link or two about this "real pagan person" named Santa Claus. Please do a little googling instead of just taking the word of paranoid preachers and get back to me.

You can't be rational with backglass, it goes against everything he was raised not to believe in.

You mean indoctrinated into the family cult since birth, like you? At least I was given the chance...you had none. But hey...mommy & daddy are very proud of you at the pancake breakfasts, I'm sure.

I am still waiting patiently for your rational explanation on how YOU can pick and choose which parts of your most sacred texts are real and which are symbolic. I cant wait to hear it!

I am also still waiting to hear your rational answer to why your god supposedly healed your terminal illness, yet didn't touch the terminal addiction you had at the same time...and still have to this day. Why is that?

Tick Tock jay!

Already answered backglass. The symbolic parts are found in Prophecy. The reason for this was also given. There is no symbolism in the 4 gospels (that I am aware of)

To your second part. God did heal me of MS. (Believe it or not it doesn't matter to me) The other is a choice...I choose to. However, if I wanted to quit... God could and has taken the desire away. Do you have a point or are you just spamming?

[Backglass]

There is no symbolism in the 4 gospels (that I am aware of)

So you choose to believe. It's all symbolism jay...a tidy collection of stories to help you live a better life.

God did heal me of MS. (Believe it or not it doesn't matter to me) The other is a choice...I choose to. However, if I wanted to quit... God could and has taken the desire away.

You did want to quit at New Years. Why wasn't the desire taken away?

[jay_a2j]

There is no symbolism in the 4 gospels (that I am aware of)

So you choose to believe. It's all symbolism jay...a tidy collection of stories to help you live a better life.

God did heal me of MS. (Believe it or not it doesn't matter to me) The other is a choice...I choose to. However, if I wanted to quit... God could and has taken the desire away.

You did want to quit at New Years. Why wasn't the desire taken away?

It was...and for 10 days it was...on the 11th day I decided I wanted to smoke even though I had no desire to. It was my choice.

[2dimes]

Huh, why?

[jay_a2j]

Huh, why?

I started smoking at 11 years old.... I'm 34 now.... old habits die hard. lol

[2dimes]

Ah, I supose I've pulled the same kind of move, just not with cigs.

[WL_southerner]

santa was a real person he did live pre christain europe, but he got change by the rom/cath church they gave him the tital of st nicklous,
and coke cola dress him a red white gear has a adertize ment back in the 1920-1930
its pagan like all the rest of christmas is

[heavycola]

on the 11th day I decided I wanted to smoke even though I had no desire to.

So...
genesis: no symbolism
job: symbolism
gospels: no symbolism
revelation: symbolism

Gotcha.

[MR. Nate]

So...
genesis: no symbolism
job: symbolism
gospels: no symbolism
revelation: symbolism

Gotcha.

Actually, it's more like

Prophecy - generally symbolism
Poetry - a lot of symbolism and metaphor
History - very little symbolism.

Daniel is a classic example. There's a lot of both symbolism, in dreams & visions, and history, which is mostly verified in archeology. It's differences in literary types.

[Backglass]

santa was a real person he did live pre christain europe, but he got change by the rom/cath church they gave him the tital of st nicklous, and coke cola dress him a red white gear has a adertize ment back in the 1920-1930 its pagan like all the rest of christmas is

Although I dont deny the pagan aspects of christmas, you need to check your facts a bit with regard to SC.

Santa Claus = Myth (attributed mostly to the dutch Sinterklaas)
St. Nicholas = Person (4th century christian bishop)

Strangely enough, while researching this I came across the following quote:

"Dr. Patrick Harding suggest that many of the modern features attributed to Santa Claus may somehow be derived from those of the Kamchatkan or Siberian shaman. "

Which brings up the whole "Santa / Stache" Evil Nexus.

[WL_southerner]

4th cent western europe was still pagan, that is the church name giving to him,to bring pagan ideals into christain in late 5th cent