The King's Court [Quenched]

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Re: The King's Court

Industrial Helix wrote:OK, it looks like the court is the biggest problem. What if the numbers alternate top to bottom?

But there needs to be some sort of resolution for this.

yes, I suppose we could alternate them.... it will be a petty though.

Kabanellas

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Re: The King's Court

Try putting some space in between them.

rockandrull

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Re: The King's Court

Kabanellas wrote:
Industrial Helix wrote:OK, it looks like the court is the biggest problem. What if the numbers alternate top to bottom?

But there needs to be some sort of resolution for this.

yes, I suppose we could alternate them.... it will be a petty though.

What if you flip the layout from rows to columns? That is, instead of having the king in the first row, the counsellors in the second, and the nobles in the third, put the king in a column at the left, the counsellors in a central column with their numbers still beneath them, and the nobles in a column on the right, again with their numbers beneath them but with the column staggered from the counsellors so that their numbers can run to the right without covering the numbers for the nobles.

And regarding region (territory) names, if you do just use N1 to N99, you will be better off with N01, N02, and so on. The drop down lists are better sorted that way, and doing it now avoids the rework that the Hive went through. (If you have more than 99, then start with N001.)

ender516

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Re: The King's Court

ender516 wrote:What if you flip the layout from rows to columns? That is, instead of having the king in the first row, the counsellors in the second, and the nobles in the third, put the king in a column at the left, the counsellors in a central column with their numbers still beneath them, and the nobles in a column on the right, again with their numbers beneath them but with the column staggered from the counsellors so that their numbers can run to the right without covering the numbers for the nobles.

I couldn fit al the nobles in a column and I'd be losing the pyramid effect. I'll try to add a bit more of space between them....

ender516 wrote:And regarding region (territory) names, if you do just use N1 to N99, you will be better off with N01, N02, and so on. The drop down lists are better sorted that way, and doing it now avoids the rework that the Hive went through. (If you have more than 99, then start with N001.)

I was not aware of that. I'll ask chip if he prefers it that way, since he'll be doing the XML.

Kabanellas

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Re: The King's Court

I've added an extra pixel between army numbers. I think it could work now. This is the worst scenario, we'll rarely see those slots so full and all in the same colour.

Click image to enlarge.

Kabanellas

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Re: The King's Court

in this version I've also added 1 extra pixel below the numbers in the Nobles. I could also do it for the Council. It's definitely clearer now

Click image to enlarge.

Kabanellas

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Re: The King's Court

I still worry that once the troop numbers in the court go to four digits (which is perhaps unlikely unless one is using the colour codes), the overlap will be annoying. What if the king were in the centre, the Counsellors formed a ring with four sectors around him, and the nobles formed a ring of eight sectors around that? With the sectors at various angles, overlap would be unlikely.

Hey, the whole court could be depicted as charges on a heraldic shield, hmm? Just throwing that out there.

A wording suggestion for the Castle legend: "can 1w assault the governing family member"

ender516

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Re: The King's Court

Yeah I thought it might be tight. What you can do is remove the word "army". It's redundant in most cases. I think you should keep the word army in the castle+knight column where it says, "1 army, 1 extra army for each 2 additional knights". But in the other places if you put +1 auto, or +1 auto-d that will fit in every spot and will be understood easier.

What do you think about my suggestion Kabanellas?
mattattam

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Re: The King's Court

mattattam wrote:
Yeah I thought it might be tight. What you can do is remove the word "army". It's redundant in most cases. I think you should keep the word army in the castle+knight column where it says, "1 army, 1 extra army for each 2 additional knights". But in the other places if you put +1 auto, or +1 auto-d that will fit in every spot and will be understood easier.

What do you think about my suggestion Kabanellas?

I could do it - changing all '# armies a-d' for '# auto-d' but still not convinced that this is the best solution. I'd like to hear the opinion from more people concerning this issue.....

Kabanellas

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Re: The King's Court

ender516 wrote:I still worry that once the troop numbers in the court go to four digits (which is perhaps unlikely unless one is using the colour codes), the overlap will be annoying. What if the king were in the centre, the Counsellors formed a ring with four sectors around him, and the nobles formed a ring of eight sectors around that? With the sectors at various angles, overlap would be unlikely.

That will mess all the space for legend letters... I'd rather go for the alternate top to bottom number scheme.
Though that when that rare situation happens one could (and should) always play in the large map.

A wording suggestion for the Castle legend: "can 1w assault the governingfamily member"

'governing' sounds good

Kabanellas

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Re: The King's Court

Amazing project. I'll try to come later with concerns/suggestions.
I love staying away from the map foundry for a few days just to come back to find jewels like this one

Thanks to the CC staff for the perma-ban on ۩░▒▓₪№™℮₪▓▒░۩!

fumandomuerte

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Re: The King's Court

Thanks FM

Kabanellas

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Re: The King's Court

small version with rearranged court

Click image to enlarge.

Click image to enlarge.

Kabanellas

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Re: The King's Court

I'd say the court looks like it meets the criteria that we needed to see for this map to get out of the pot and into the fire.

Moved.
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Industrial Helix

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Re: The King's Court

Neutral army starters will be the key element here.

I’m proposing the following numbers after some analysis:

-Castles would start with 3 armies. So a player in the initial round would have 3 + 3 auto-deploy + 3 region bonus (there will be no region bonuses in this map but I think we’ll have those minimum 3 troops– right?) making a total of 9 armies to use on the first round.

-Catapults would be protected by 6 neutral armies – they give a fairly reasonable income of 2 armies, though they come in auto-deploy mode and with limited options to use. We also need to make this value high to avoid initial 1st round bombardments via trebuchets on other castles.

-Cluster Knights would start with 4 neutral armies – good income of 1 free army (Knight + Castle) + 1 in auto-deploy mode and a very good ability of assaulting in a range of 3. All other knights would start with 3 neutral armies.

-Cluster Archers would start with 2 neutral armies – 1 army in auto-deploy mode in a region that can only bombard apart from assaulting other archers in a range of 4. All other archers in-between Castles would start with 3 neutral armies.

-Villages – the only straight free-to-use bonus shouldn’t have more than 2 neutral troops to kill.

-Trebuchets – the only neutral killer, would have 3 neutral armies
All other regions would have 1 neutral army on them.

The King’s Court

All Noble family members would start with 4 neutral troops though they will only give a +1 auto-deploy army. But I do prefer to enlarge this value to 4 and reduce the value of the Counselors to 3. This way the second player wouldn’t benefit immensely from the first one taking down a big bunch of neutral armies there.
The King should have a high value in army numbers for its importance while giving access to all castles. Don’t want to make it too big though – I’m proposing 8

P.S. – non attributed Castles (in 3, 5, 6 or 7 player games) should start with 8 neutral troops

Neutral starters placement
Click image to enlarge.

Kabanellas

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Re: The King's Court

In your map key for Catapults it says, "can 1w assualt Trebuchets." Did you intend the for the Catapult to one way assault any Trebuchet or just the closest one?
Last edited by mattattam on Tue Jun 15, 2010 2:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.
mattattam

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Re: The King's Court

Any Trebuchet. In this way with your catapults production you can reach any castle. It will only last for one turn though, because Trebuchets are killer neutrals.

Kabanellas

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Re: The King's Court

Alrighty, if it's any Trebuchet I suggest saying, "can 1w assualt any Trebuchet". I think this clarifies it a bit more and should fit.

Also I want to clarify about the Archers. It says they can assault archers up to a range of 4 and are immune to impassables. So can you count the range of 4 by jumping from one side of an impassable hexagon to any other side of that hexagon? Therefor, can the castle A6 archer assault castle H3 archer? Or can the castle G6 archer assault the S6 archer? How do the impassables work here?

-Trebuchets – the only neutral killer, would have 3 neutral armies
All other regions would have 1 neutral army on them.

I don't get what this means. I see 4 Trebuchets. Is only one of them going start at 3 neutral armies? Or do you mean that once you take any Trebuchet it will return to 1 instead of 3 at the start of your next turn?
mattattam

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Re: The King's Court

mattattam wrote:Alrighty, if it's any Trebuchet I suggest saying, "can 1w assualt any Trebuchet". I think this clarifies it a bit more and should fit.

Ok, seems pretty reasonable I'll do it

Also I want to clarify about the Archers. It says they can assault archers up to a range of 4 and are immune to impassables. So can you count the range of 4 by jumping from one side of an impassable hexagon to any other side of that hexagon? Therefor, can the castle A6 archer assault castle H3 archer? Or can the castle G6 archer assault the S6 archer? How do the impassables work here?

Yes, that's exactly how Archers work. Though in that case, I've already noticed that I'll have to rearrange those castle archers so they won't get into direct contact. I don't want an archer from one castle having direct contact with another from a neighbouring castle.

-Trebuchets – the only neutral killer, would have 3 neutral armies
All other regions would have 1 neutral army on them.

I don't get what this means. I see 4 Trebuchets. Is only one of them going start at 3 neutral armies? Or do you mean that once you take any Trebuchet it will return to 1 instead of 3 at the start of your next turn?

I was just trying to explain that all territories named by N## will start with 1 neutral troop. Trebuchets will revert to the same 3 neutral killers.

Kabanellas

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Re: The King's Court

Yeah I didn't think you wanted archers to be able to attack other archers at adjacent castles.

I was just trying to explain that all territories named by N## will start with 1 neutral troop. Trebuchets will revert to the same 3 neutral killers.

Gotcha. I thought the second line was relating to the Trebuchets.

I like the neutral army starts. I'll look more in depth later. I really like this map. Looking forward to playing it
Last edited by mattattam on Wed Jun 16, 2010 12:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
mattattam

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Re: The King's Court

I prefer

+1 auto

and change the legend for it

chipv

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Re: The King's Court

More:

Change 1 army a-d
to
+1 auto

This takes less space and allows you to use +1 for non autodeploy instead of 1 army
Also can use noble instead of family member, maybe clearer

Examples

Castle : +3 auto, can 1w assault its noble
Castle + Knight : +1 , +1 per 2 knights
Village : +1
Knight : +1 auto

Council: +1 auto, +1 with King, +1 per noble
Duke: +1 per 2 knights
Bishop: +1 per 2 villages (although you already get +1 per village)
Field Marshal : +1 per catapult, can 1w assault archers and trebuchets

The nobles can 1w assault counsellors, +1 auto

Archer: +1 auto, bombard range 2, assaults archers range 4, immune to impassables (?)
Catapult: +2 auto, can 1w assault trebuchets, bombard range 3
Trebuchet: Resets to 3 neutral, bombard range 4

Abbreviations

1w One-way
auto autodeploy

chipv

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Re: The King's Court

I think it might be an interesting twist to have the archers not immune to impassables, actually.

More realistic also?

chipv

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Re: The King's Court

chipv wrote:I think it might be an interesting twist to have the archers not immune to impassables, actually.

More realistic also?

What if you have the archers immune to green impassables only? This would make it so you don't have to change around any archers and they can still have access to the archers on the raised green impassables. It's like archers can not shoot across the large lakes and rock field impassables, but they can shoot up and down the green hills. That's more realistic too. In the map key you can put "immune to green impassables," instead of, "are immune to impassables".
mattattam

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Re: The King's Court

chipv wrote:More:

Change 1 army a-d
to
+1 auto

This takes less space and allows you to use +1 for non autodeploy instead of 1 army
Also can use noble instead of family member, maybe clearer

Examples

Castle : +3 auto, can 1w assault its noble
Castle + Knight : +1 , +1 per 2 knights
Village : +1
Knight : +1 auto

Council: +1 auto, +1 with King, +1 per noble
Duke: +1 per 2 knights
Bishop: +1 per 2 villages (although you already get +1 per village)
Field Marshal : +1 per catapult, can 1w assault archers and trebuchets

The nobles can 1w assault counsellors, +1 auto

Archer: +1 auto, bombard range 2, assaults archers range 4, immune to impassables (?)
Catapult: +2 auto, can 1w assault trebuchets, bombard range 3
Trebuchet: Resets to 3 neutral, bombard range 4

Abbreviations

1w One-way
auto autodeploy

doable

I'll take care of it in the next post

Kabanellas

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