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joecoolfrog wrote:If you think that Player and I are in total agreement on the question of religion then you are even more retarded than I thought.
joecoolfrog wrote:Do you think I require citations to guage my opinion of Jays beliefs
joecoolfrog wrote:do you not think it possible to reach conclusions based on the evidence displayed in his many posts and even greater number of evasions
joecoolfrog wrote:Do I need citations to recognise a Junkie who finds he needs to take his high to ever increasing extremes , to recognise an evangelist who thinks rigid acceptance of dogma makes him superior. to judge a blinkered fool who only sees what he wants to see.....nope!
joecoolfrog wrote:Despite your smug assertion , adherence to Young Earth Creationism is not a tenant of Christianity, being pragmatic is a virtue , being dogmatic is not.
DangerBoy wrote:joecoolfrog wrote:If you think that Player and I are in total agreement on the question of religion then you are even more retarded than I thought.
Dodging, dodging!
Nobody said you and Player were in total agreement on the question of religion.joecoolfrog wrote:Do you think I require citations to guage my opinion of Jays beliefs
No, I think you require a lot of hiding behind Player's posts followed by a multitude of smilies.joecoolfrog wrote:do you not think it possible to reach conclusions based on the evidence displayed in his many posts and even greater number of evasions
They're only evasions because you deem them as such. Perhaps if you ever actually posted specific refutations instead of smilies you'd have more credibility.joecoolfrog wrote:Do I need citations to recognise a Junkie who finds he needs to take his high to ever increasing extremes , to recognise an evangelist who thinks rigid acceptance of dogma makes him superior. to judge a blinkered fool who only sees what he wants to see.....nope!
Nothing but pure blind hatred of evangelicals here, folks^.
Do I need citations to recognize an atheist who finds he needs to take out his frustrations through obsessing about a Christian posting about evolution? I don't, but I bet it wouldn't be too difficult to link how many times you've followed Jay through here hurling little snobbish remarks.joecoolfrog wrote:Despite your smug assertion , adherence to Young Earth Creationism is not a tenant of Christianity, being pragmatic is a virtue , being dogmatic is not.
Like dogmatically claiming that there is no God, right?
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joecoolfrog wrote: Which is why I dont
Nice to see such an original turn of thought from you though, is mimicry another evangelical
virtue ?
PLAYER57832 wrote:I hope we all become liberal drones.
DangerBoy wrote:joecoolfrog wrote: Which is why I dont
Nice to see such an original turn of thought from you though, is mimicry another evangelical
virtue ?
About as much as arrogant name calling is an atheist one
Lootifer wrote:I earn well above average income for my area, i'm educated and I support left wing politics.
jbrettlip wrote:You live in New Zealand. We will call you when we need to make another Hobbit movie.
jonesthecurl wrote:So all christians are fundamentalists?
DangerBoy wrote:PLAYER57832 wrote:Thinking evolution might be false isn't what makes young earthers moronic, its ignoring the factual evidence that has been discovered long since all those folks.
What is laughable about this is that you personally pm'd me once and accused me of believing the earth was young. Even though I specifically told you I didn't know you still persist in this accusation. Not all creationists believe in a young earth. This is what's so sad. You are on a personal crusade against young earth creationists that is purely driven by hatred.
DangerBoy wrote:You are not a Christian. You are a theist.
DangerBoy wrote:I await another accusation about how evil Dr. Morris is now, probably followed by a bunch of cheering in the background from joecoolfrog and smilies.
beezer wrote:DB it's probably not too wise to argue with joe or those like him. Keep in mind Proverbs 14:7. It's just going to be pointless in the end.
PLAYER57832 wrote:DangerBoy wrote:PLAYER57832 wrote:Thinking evolution might be false isn't what makes young earthers moronic, its ignoring the factual evidence that has been discovered long since all those folks.
What is laughable about this is that you personally pm'd me once and accused me of believing the earth was young. Even though I specifically told you I didn't know you still persist in this accusation. Not all creationists believe in a young earth. This is what's so sad. You are on a personal crusade against young earth creationists that is purely driven by hatred.
Accused? Either you do or not. In fact, I am a creationist myself. I believe God made all, I just believe God used evolution.
As for the creationist versus young earth creationist, I try to be specific. However, in this context, responding to jay, he is making it clear he is referring to young earth theories.
As for the "hatred". When people put forward lies and claim they do so in the name of Christ, it is blasphemy. So, as a Christian it behooves me to point it out and yes, challenge them on it. However, if you actually read what I write, I am pretty careful to distinguish between the scientists, a few others putting this stuff forward, some of whom almost certainly know they are putting out falsehoods (however they justify it to themselves). I also am pretty clear in my challenges.
You have evidence? Show it!
You don't think what I post is true? CHECK IT OUT! But, don't just go to the nearest creationist website and call that "checking it out".DangerBoy wrote:You are not a Christian. You are a theist.
And yet, while I might say I don't believe young earth proponents are following Christ's word, etc. or are not acting like a Christian, I don't say they are not Christian. I guess you feel you know my heart better than God. I don't claim such arrogance when it comes to others. I let them make that choice. Only if someone tells me they don't really follow Christ, but agree with his teachings, ... then, occasionally, I might say differently. (that is, I might challenge them to consider it)DangerBoy wrote:I await another accusation about how evil Dr. Morris is now, probably followed by a bunch of cheering in the background from joecoolfrog and smilies.
I don't believe I have evern called Dr Morris evil. I have said his institute has an evil result. Getting children to believe lies is evil, even when the person spreading them does not believe them to be evil. This is why we are to check everything we are told. That is what I have challenged jay, anyone else who thinks I am wrong to do. You refuse and decide instead to hide behing this garbage of "we follow the Bible.. you do not" or "we know the truth (heh, heh) why should we sully ourselves by even considering anything else." Seeking truth is what Christ teaches us.
PLAYER57832 wrote:I hope we all become liberal drones.
DangerBoy wrote:
Yeah, I knew it. You're not a Christian. You're a theist. You've been brought up in the Christian tradition and use its language, but you're not a Christian.
DangerBoy wrote:You're not a Christian. You're a theist. You've been brought up in the Christian tradition and use its language, but you're not a Christian.
b.k. barunt wrote:Then you must be a pseudoatheist. If you were a real atheist Dan Brown would make your nipples hard.
Lucy
Parts from All Over
The one that is in the textbooks now that is the most famous is called Lucy. How many have ever heard of Lucy before? Better known as australopithicus atherensis, scientific name. Donald Johanson found Lucy at Dar Valley, Ethiopia in 1974; it was 40% of the skeleton. This is considered the most complete skeleton ever found. There is a real controversy about the knee joint. The knee joint that he found a mile and a half away from the rest of the skeleton was labeled in National Geographic as "Lucy’s Knee", Donald never corrected them; it was not Lucy’s knee found a mile and a half away. He let the error slip through because he wanted them to think, "well maybe that is the same." There is a long story on that; 200 feet deeper in the strata, by the way.
Monkeys and Femurs
Donald said, I think Lucy is becoming a human because the ape has a straight femur, the thigh bone on an ape is straight coming off the knee joint on the far right over there. Lucy’s knee angled to the side like a human knee angles to the side. See, your hips are wider than your knees and so your femur angles out to the side. I have got two of them myself, I know about that. Lucy’s femur angled and Donald said, "See, that proves Lucy is becoming a human." No, no, no, Donald, any monkey that climbs trees has an angled femur; monkeys that walk on the ground have a straight femur. So it does not prove it is becoming a human.
He said, well the bones are slightly bigger; notice Lucy’s bones are a little bit bigger than a regular ape. That is true but it does not prove it is becoming a human. Did you know the bones of a Clydesdale are slightly bigger than a regular horse? That proves it is becoming an elephant or a truck. Just a heavy, duty chimpanzee, that is all; all they found was a heavy, duty chimp and that is all it was. By the way, the St. Louis Zoo put Lucy with human feet on it. Guess how many foot bones were found. Zero! Pure propaganda! When they found the footprints over there in the ash, Time magazine put an ape-like creature on top of these perfectly normal human footprints—footprints were 100% perfectly normal human. They did not find any bones, but they made the "missing link" to be ape-like. It is propaganda folks, it is not science. Actually the Australopithecine are just an unusual monkey and the experts are admitting it. There might even be some still alive in Sumatra down near Vietnam.
Lootifer wrote:I earn well above average income for my area, i'm educated and I support left wing politics.
jbrettlip wrote:You live in New Zealand. We will call you when we need to make another Hobbit movie.
Lionz wrote:Folks?,
Who claims mainstream evolutionary theory does not state that humans descend from apes? Humans even are apes according to mainstream evolutionary theory maybe.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apes
Player,
What specifically do you claim I ignored?
You ironically sent evidence against certain fossils yourself in response to Jay maybe. What do you claim actually is an example of a fossil of a human and chimp ancestor? How about present one you feel is most convincing if you claim there are a number of examples?
Want to discuss Lucy and move on from there? Maybe this is missing one or more image and has messed up formatting and is misquoted, but...
Lucy
Parts from All Over
The one that is in the textbooks now that is the most famous is called Lucy. How many have ever heard of Lucy before? Better known as australopithicus atherensis, scientific name. Donald Johanson found Lucy at Dar Valley, Ethiopia in 1974; it was 40% of the skeleton. This is considered the most complete skeleton ever found. There is a real controversy about the knee joint. The knee joint that he found a mile and a half away from the rest of the skeleton was labeled in National Geographic as "Lucy’s Knee", Donald never corrected them; it was not Lucy’s knee found a mile and a half away. He let the error slip through because he wanted them to think, "well maybe that is the same." There is a long story on that; 200 feet deeper in the strata, by the way.
Monkeys and Femurs
Donald said, I think Lucy is becoming a human because the ape has a straight femur, the thigh bone on an ape is straight coming off the knee joint on the far right over there. Lucy’s knee angled to the side like a human knee angles to the side. See, your hips are wider than your knees and so your femur angles out to the side. I have got two of them myself, I know about that. Lucy’s femur angled and Donald said, "See, that proves Lucy is becoming a human." No, no, no, Donald, any monkey that climbs trees has an angled femur; monkeys that walk on the ground have a straight femur. So it does not prove it is becoming a human.
He said, well the bones are slightly bigger; notice Lucy’s bones are a little bit bigger than a regular ape. That is true but it does not prove it is becoming a human. Did you know the bones of a Clydesdale are slightly bigger than a regular horse? That proves it is becoming an elephant or a truck. Just a heavy, duty chimpanzee, that is all; all they found was a heavy, duty chimp and that is all it was. By the way, the St. Louis Zoo put Lucy with human feet on it. Guess how many foot bones were found. Zero! Pure propaganda! When they found the footprints over there in the ash, Time magazine put an ape-like creature on top of these perfectly normal human footprints—footprints were 100% perfectly normal human. They did not find any bones, but they made the "missing link" to be ape-like. It is propaganda folks, it is not science. Actually the Australopithecine are just an unusual monkey and the experts are admitting it. There might even be some still alive in Sumatra down near Vietnam.
What suggests there was a neanderthal or a Heiderlburg man who was not simply a human descendant of Adam? Both are known for large brow ridges maybe. Remember something said about brow ridges earlier? Is there a neanderthal bone or a Heiderlburg man bone that has been found farther than a few hundred miles from Mt. Ararat or Europe?
Also, did vegetation exist millions of years before the sun even if yom can refer to millions of years? And did He cause it to rain on earth only after plants?
And if earth and stars were created automatically out of nothing, then what about rocks or stars say something is billions of years old? Is there a way He could have created a diamond filled earth instantly out of nothing without you feeling as though it looked millions of years old? Maybe you don't look at earth as if there actually was an earthwide flood on it less than 5,000 years ago and there was one that helps explain fossils and geology.
bradleybadly wrote:Player I seriously don't understand why you just don't become an atheist. It's more logically consistent with evolution. Yes, you do come across as somewhat of a crusader. Remember when you emailed me about evolution. I'm an atheist so of course I already believe. There's no reason to send me a message and try to convince me of it.
Now look, if you're trying to hold on to some elements of the Christian faith because that's what you were raised in then I respect that. But seriously, you don't have to have one foot in the church and one in evolution. Your parents are probably really wonderful people and raised you to believe in the Christian faith. That's wonderful! Christianity has probably given many people who are looking for positive things a lot of good answers. But it's obvious you don't believe in the story of Genesis. You should just make the choice to leave that faith once and for all. It will be difficult but I think you'll be more contented in the long run. You'll be miserable as long as you try to have a little bit of both sides and reconcile them.
Lionz wrote:Folks?,
Who claims mainstream evolutionary theory doesn't hold that humans descend from apes? Humans even are apes according to mainstream evolutionary theory maybe.
b.k. barunt wrote:Then you must be a pseudoatheist. If you were a real atheist Dan Brown would make your nipples hard.
AAFitz wrote:Sure she has that choice, but theres no reason she has to choose between believing in God, and believing in hundreds of years of science, over misinterpreting a 6000 year old text. Further, she does not seem miserable, she simply doesnt hide behind a fantasy to have a false sense of happiness, by ignoring the actual fundamentals around her. Some cant handle the truth, so they ignore it. Others can be quite content learning, and dont need to sacrifice their strong belief and devotion to their God to do so.
Lootifer wrote:I earn well above average income for my area, i'm educated and I support left wing politics.
jbrettlip wrote:You live in New Zealand. We will call you when we need to make another Hobbit movie.
jonesthecurl wrote:Danger Boy: How about you give us your definition of what a Christian is?
We spend a lot of time in this thread throwing words back and forth. It'd help if people knew what the words mean, especially when they mean different things to different posters.
PLAYER57832 wrote:Too many of those who claim they don't believe global warming are really "end-timer" Christians.
jonesthecurl wrote:So all christians are fundamentalists?
PLAYER57832 wrote:Too many of those who claim they don't believe global warming are really "end-timer" Christians.
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