How do you feel about God?

[saxitoxin]

The reason why I try to get a rise in theists is so that they may join me in my belief one day.

I know, that's what I said. In interpersonal psychoanalytic conventions the only rational way to explain this desire of yours is either (a) megalomania, or, (b) insecurity in your own lack of belief that you need reassurance.

I am a logical atheist, evidenced in my detached disinterest from theists. Sadly, the vast majority of atheists aren't true atheists but, like you, sufferers of various pathological disorders. The world humanist community can only grow with a healthy membership base interested in advancing a humanist ethic, not as a magnet for the mentally infirm and those tormented with various states of undiagnosed disease.

People who like to "needle" theists almost invariably - in fact, always invariably - fall into this latter camp. The act is symptomatic of psychological distress. This is not an opinion intended to offend, it is simply a medical diagnosis given as a statement of fact.

With no further access to you, but based only on a quick review of your writing and method of phraseology, I think I can accurately assess your ailment as a minor cognitive error. This can usually be corrected in 4-5 sessions of cognitive restructuring therapy, plus a few self-directed visualization exercises. It does not require extended counseling nor pharmacological interventions. In looking for a therapist you'll want to ask if they are experienced in cognitive behavioral therapy. (Falko, you too.) You guys need to treat your minds like you treat your bodies - take care of yourselves and get healthy. We need a healthy CC community.

And now I truly have to log-off. I promised ES (yes, we're back together - long story) "no CC Forums on vacay!" and I just violated that promise! LMAO! She'll withhold sex again ... maybe not because she can't keep her hands off my hot bod, but she may kick me in the scrot with her Christian Louboutin red heels if I don't log-off. Until next week, adieu -

[Army of GOD]

I didn't know Evil Semp was a girl...

[nietzsche]

The reason why I try to get a rise in theists is so that they may join me in my belief one day.

I know, that's what I said. In interpersonal psychoanalytic conventions the only rational way to explain this desire of yours is either (a) megalomania, or, (b) insecurity in your own lack of belief that you need reassurance.

I am a logical atheist, evidenced in my detached disinterest from theists. Sadly, the vast majority of atheists aren't true atheists but, like you, sufferers of various pathological disorders. The world humanist community can only grow with a healthy membership base interested in advancing a humanist ethic, not as a magnet for the mentally infirm and those tormented with various states of undiagnosed disease.

People who like to "needle" theists almost invariably - in fact, always invariably - fall into this latter camp. The act is symptomatic of psychological distress. This is not an opinion intended to offend, it is simply a medical diagnosis given as a statement of fact.

With no further access to you, but based only on a quick review of your writing and method of phraseology, I think I can accurately assess your ailment as a minor cognitive error. This can usually be corrected in 4-5 sessions of cognitive restructuring therapy, plus a few self-directed visualization exercises. It does not require extended counseling nor pharmacological interventions. In looking for a therapist you'll want to ask if they are experienced in cognitive behavioral therapy. (Falko, you too.) You guys need to treat your minds like you treat your bodies - take care of yourselves and get healthy. We need a healthy CC community.

And now I truly have to log-off. I promised ES (yes, we're back together - long story) "no CC Forums on vacay!" and I just violated that promise! LMAO! She'll withhold sex again ... maybe not because she can't keep her hands off my hot bod, but she may kick me in the scrot with her Christian Louboutin red heels if I don't log-off. Until next week, adieu -

Dear Saxi

I agree with 90% of what you say. In my calmest moments, I realize arguing about it doesn't help ME, however I have to jump to the rescue of those who need my help .

Also, where do we draw the line dividing mental neurosis and mental health? I believe that we all are a little mentally sick. Others a little bit more. I find that those who are "high on life" are mentally sick too. Perhaps with your knowledge and advocation to communism you'd think a mentally healthy person is one who contributes to the whole community? Doing what's best suited for him? A little Platonic and naive isn't it?

Something I have never been able to perfectly link tho, is the bridge from atheism to humanist community. It seems to that all perfectly happy contemporary atheist authors I've read take that bridge for granted. Was I not invited to the inauguration of the bridge?

I'm going to say existentialism and don't want anybody saying that existentialism is dead. Isn't it true that once God is out of the picture, one is left only with his own projects?

I expect your answer dear saxi.

[King Doctor]

I think God's cheating on me. I'm going to stay at my friend's place until I can work out what I should do about it.

Yeah, I heard that he loves, like, hundreds of other guys.


I'm pretty bummed about it, I thought he was the one.

[jay_a2j]

"God will be there to judge each according to his deeds when we die and finally have to face him."

only the people who believe in him will have to face him

Yeah, you wish.

[Falkomagno]

My opinion of either god or God does not match any of your options.

Yes... there is a difference between a god and God.

One of the options should be nearly to every believes for sure. Try harder.

No.

None of your options comes anywhere near my view on the subject.

First I believe I believe there may be a god of some sort.

Not God for sure.

that's just a start... not worth going into it much deeper though with someone who posts 3 basic options across 10 lines.

You try harder to think real options.

Obviously your belief in that case is near to the option ""God? Maybe. Probably. Some guy watching us or somthing."".

But i don't understand with the harsh in your words. Seems like a sensitve subject for you, and that's pretty weird in a kind of agnostic,

[King Doctor]

Yeah, you wish.

What is your alternative proposition?

[jimboston]

My opinion of either god or God does not match any of your options.

Yes... there is a difference between a god and God.

One of the options should be nearly to every believes for sure. Try harder.

No.

None of your options comes anywhere near my view on the subject.

First I believe I believe there may be a god of some sort.

Not God for sure.

that's just a start... not worth going into it much deeper though with someone who posts 3 basic options across 10 lines.

You try harder to think real options.

Obviously your belief in that case is near to the option ""God? Maybe. Probably. Some guy watching us or somthing."".

But i don't understand with the harsh in your words. Seems like a sensitve subject for you, and that's pretty weird in a kind of agnostic,

Didn't mean to be harsh... but I do see it it.

I think reading the good doctors' posts brought out the worst in me.

Yeah... that is the nearest option... but it's not the correct one because;
1) I think there may be a god but not God.
2) I wouldn't attribute any sex to this entity.
3) I don't think any supremely powerful entity would really be interested in 'watching' us.

[Baron Von PWN]

I chose the last option. However I don't think people who believe in god are stupid and I think people who call them are being rather close minded.

[The Bison King]

I'm disappointing with your options so I didn't vote. Most of them are just different ways of saying yes or no. Also you don't specify "which god" you are talking about. Maybe I believe Quetzalcoatl, Allah, The Great Spirit, Apollo, or Zeus. It's unfair to just assume that you are talking about the christian god by saying "god"

[King Doctor]

Maybe I believe Quetzalcoatl, Allah, The Great Spirit, Apollo, or Zeus. It's unfair to just assume that you are talking about the christian god by saying "god"

I thought that all of those 'Gods' were made up fairy tales?

[The Bison King]

I thought that all of those 'Gods' were made up fairy tales?

God is just an Idea to help us understand ourselves. However at the same time I believe that that makes the Idea of God as real as any of us. I was raised Catholic but I've developed a lot of beliefs of my own since then. Basically I believe that god exists as the energy that animates all life. God=life therefore God is more of an idea than a conscious being. It's just an idea that I toss around when I'm drunk mostly, I'm not gonna build a church around it.

[Lionz]

Saxi,

What suggests to you that He was made up by a ruling elite to control working classes if something does? Do you mean to hint He was invented by Hebrew speaking folks specifically? If so, is there not actually quite a bit of criticism of government including and not by any means limited to Hebrew government in Christian scripture? Any comment on an English version of Luke 4:5-6 or Psalm 2:1-4 or 1 Samuel 8:4-7?

http://yahushua.net/scriptures/luke4.htm
http://yahushua.net/scriptures/psa002.htm
http://yahushua.net/scriptures/1sa8.htm

Maybe there's actually evidence that there's a conspiracy by a ruling elite to get people to view things from a secular perspective.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=113989&p=2538342#p2538342
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=113989&p=2538361#p2538361
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=113989&p=2538375#p2538375

[saxitoxin]

As I used to teach the kids in my troop when I was a scout leader in the Thälmann Youth Pioneers -

1. The bulk of mainstream theological thought in Christianity and Judaism views the Garden of Eden as a literary device, not a literal history, designed to communicate more transcendent truths from an educated class to a pre-literate society in which less than one-percent of the population was able to read and write.

(2. Unfortunately, most of my "fellow" atheists - due to their root psychological impairment that I detailed above - are too quick with their haughty dismissals to understand this.)

3. By extension, it's reasonable to assume the whole of the Old Testament is such a literary device; well-intentioned and well-purposed but not a blow-by-blow historical document anymore than James Bond films represent a history of the Cold War.

4. Books like the Bible, as Marx describes, were "the sigh of an oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world." The capitalist oligarchy, seeking to further entrench its power position, usurped the philosophical foundations of organized religion to refashion it as vehicle of hierarchical obedience.

5. The New Testament was a call-to-action to the people by a charismatic leader, Jesus Christ, and his revolutionary vanguard of apostles, who sought to sweep away the feudal imperialism of Rome and liberate the world in an internationalist spirit of anarcho-communism. It supports the creation of the dictatorship of the proletariat for global liberation of the masses.

And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need. Having land, sold it, and brought the money, and laid it at the apostles' feet. (Acts 4:32-37)

6. Unfortunately, society had not progressed from feudalism to capitalism to socialism - as is the natural order - at that time ... Jesus was too forward of a thinker and the revolution would be suppressed and lay dormant until Bund der Gerechten was established by German workers in France under the leadership of Gracchus Babeuf. (Bund der Gerechten was a modern apostolic movement and Gracchus a modern Jesus. Their revolutionary efforts were cataloged by Marx and Engels in the Manifesto of the Communist Party, an updated version of the New Testament.)

Nonetheless, the revolutionary fervor sparked by Jesus, prompted the ruling oligarchy to again seek to usurp his economic and social teachings by refashioning it as a literal, organized, state-backed religious institution that would demand obedience to a hierarchical power structure, via the Council of Nicaea. In the same way, the prevailing imperialist-capitalist power structure has sought to usurp Marxist thought through watered-down, so-called "Social Democratic" parties such as Britain's Labour Party or Canada's NDP or Germany's SPD, all of which are actually zoophilic concubines to The Insect.

There is only one-way forward and that way is beneath the Movement of the Three-Revolution Red Banner - created by Jesus Christ and energized by Karl Marx.

If Jesus were alive today the only hymn he would want sung is The Internationle:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPFlyrvEb8M

[nietzsche]

As I used to teach the kids in my troop when I was a scout leader in the Thälmann Youth Pioneers -

1. The bulk of mainstream theological thought in Christianity and Judaism views the Garden of Eden as a literary device, not a literal history, designed to communicate more transcendent truths from an educated class to a pre-literate society in which less than one-percent of the population was able to read and write.

(2. Unfortunately, most of my "fellow" atheists - due to their root psychological impairment that I detailed above - are too quick with their haughty dismissals to understand this.)

3. By extension, it's reasonable to assume the whole of the Old Testament is such a literary device; well-intentioned and well-purposed but not a blow-by-blow historical document anymore than James Bond films represent a history of the Cold War.

4. Books like the Bible, as Marx describes, were "the sigh of an oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world." The capitalist oligarchy, seeking to further entrench its power position, usurped the philosophical foundations of organized religion to refashion it as vehicle of hierarchical obedience.

5. The New Testament was a call-to-action to the people by a charismatic leader, Jesus Christ, and his revolutionary vanguard of apostles, who sought to sweep away the feudal imperialism of Rome and liberate the world in an internationalist spirit of anarcho-communism. It supports the creation of the dictatorship of the proletariat for global liberation of the masses.

And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need. Having land, sold it, and brought the money, and laid it at the apostles' feet. (Acts 4:32-37)

6. Unfortunately, society had not progressed from feudalism to capitalism to socialism - as is the natural order - at that time ... Jesus was too forward of a thinker and the revolution would be suppressed and lay dormant until Bund der Gerechten was established by German workers in France under the leadership of Gracchus Babeuf. (Bund der Gerechten was a modern apostolic movement and Gracchus a modern Jesus. Their revolutionary efforts were cataloged by Marx and Engels in the Manifesto of the Communist Party, an updated version of the New Testament.)

Nonetheless, the revolutionary fervor sparked by Jesus, prompted the ruling oligarchy to again seek to usurp his economic and social teachings by refashioning it as a literal, organized, state-backed religious institution that would demand obedience to a hierarchical power structure, via the Council of Nicaea. In the same way, the prevailing imperialist-capitalist power structure has sought to usurp Marxist thought through watered-down, so-called "Social Democratic" parties such as Britain's Labour Party or Canada's NDP or Germany's SPD, all of which are actually zoophilic concubines to The Insect.

There is only one-way forward and that way is beneath the Movement of the Three-Revolution Red Banner - created by Jesus Christ and energized by Karl Marx.

If Jesus were alive today the only hymn he would want sung is The Internationle:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPFlyrvEb8M

Blacklisted!

[nietzsche]

As I used to teach the kids in my troop when I was a scout leader in the Thälmann Youth Pioneers -

1. The bulk of mainstream theological thought in Christianity and Judaism views the Garden of Eden as a literary device, not a literal history, designed to communicate more transcendent truths from an educated class to a pre-literate society in which less than one-percent of the population was able to read and write.

(2. Unfortunately, most of my "fellow" atheists - due to their root psychological impairment that I detailed above - are too quick with their haughty dismissals to understand this.)

3. By extension, it's reasonable to assume the whole of the Old Testament is such a literary device; well-intentioned and well-purposed but not a blow-by-blow historical document anymore than James Bond films represent a history of the Cold War.

4. Books like the Bible, as Marx describes, were "the sigh of an oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world." The capitalist oligarchy, seeking to further entrench its power position, usurped the philosophical foundations of organized religion to refashion it as vehicle of hierarchical obedience.

5. The New Testament was a call-to-action to the people by a charismatic leader, Jesus Christ, and his revolutionary vanguard of apostles, who sought to sweep away the feudal imperialism of Rome and liberate the world in an internationalist spirit of anarcho-communism. It supports the creation of the dictatorship of the proletariat for global liberation of the masses.

And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need. Having land, sold it, and brought the money, and laid it at the apostles' feet. (Acts 4:32-37)

6. Unfortunately, society had not progressed from feudalism to capitalism to socialism - as is the natural order - at that time ... Jesus was too forward of a thinker and the revolution would be suppressed and lay dormant until Bund der Gerechten was established by German workers in France under the leadership of Gracchus Babeuf. (Bund der Gerechten was a modern apostolic movement and Gracchus a modern Jesus. Their revolutionary efforts were cataloged by Marx and Engels in the Manifesto of the Communist Party, an updated version of the New Testament.)

Nonetheless, the revolutionary fervor sparked by Jesus, prompted the ruling oligarchy to again seek to usurp his economic and social teachings by refashioning it as a literal, organized, state-backed religious institution that would demand obedience to a hierarchical power structure, via the Council of Nicaea. In the same way, the prevailing imperialist-capitalist power structure has sought to usurp Marxist thought through watered-down, so-called "Social Democratic" parties such as Britain's Labour Party or Canada's NDP or Germany's SPD, all of which are actually zoophilic concubines to The Insect.

There is only one-way forward and that way is beneath the Movement of the Three-Revolution Red Banner - created by Jesus Christ and energized by Karl Marx.

If Jesus were alive today the only hymn he would want sung is The Internationle:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPFlyrvEb8M

Actually, great post, these kind of posts are great because they express a whole general view of a matter, leaving no doubt on what is tried to express, unlike 2-sentence posts that might be ambiguos.

Any way, just some points to consider, and in no way refuting any idea of your post:

1. Plato was first and more clear to delineate a "socialism" in his republic. He was invited to bring to life is idea but was banished by the ruler who invited him after realizing he had to leave power.

2. Constantino the Great used Jesus legacy to further control people, and since then has worked for most of the world.

3. Communism has failed every time it has been tried. Cuba is about to fail, China is super-capitalist now and some of the things communism has left in China amongst others is repression. When the US ends his wars against Irak and Al Qaeda will focus on North Korea.

4. I'm not sure how to keep people motivated in a communist state, saxi states that it's a humanism concern but, I myself believe you can't control the masses without a deity.

5. Socialism is a great thing to hope, and it would start by taking the power off central banks, the state printing their own currency.

None of this points tries to contradict what saxi posted, they are only footnotes.

[Lionz]

Saxi,

- What did you mean by The bulk of mainstream theological thought in Christianity and Judaism if you said that?

- Do you mean to suggest Hebrew nomads made up stories about Eden? What if there's actually ancient artwork from across the planet that have to do with it?

Red man and woman being offered something from a tree?































Snake with legs and man after just having eyes opened to stuff?









After learning about regret?

























Learning how to work the earth for food?



Cherubim guarding the tree of life?

































I've added censoring and there is even one or more source reference cropped off possibly. Want a source for something?

- Do you theorize that there were 40 plus writers spread across hundreds of years who made up 65 plus works that back eachother up? And that they all decided to write blatant lies without collaborating with one another in order to ironically or not support religion that's opposed to lying?

And were there followers of Him who had mass hallucinations of seeing Him perform miracles and of seeing Him resurrected who were later martyred due to faith?

- Did He want to physically overthrow a Caesar? Consider a version of Matthew 26:52-53 maybe.

http://yahushua.net/scriptures/matt26.htm

- You might have unintentionally left stuff out from a version of Acts 4:32-37 in a misleading fashion. Here's a complete version perhaps...

4:32 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.

4:33 And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the
Master Yahushua: and great favour was upon them all.

4:34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,

4:35 And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.

4:36 And Joses, who by the apostles was surnamed Barnabas, (which is, being interpreted, The son of consolation,) a Levite, and of the country of Cyprus,

4:37 Having land, sold it, and brought the money, and laid it at the apostles' feet.

- It might be that there was revolutionary fervor sparked by Him that prompted a ruling oligarchy to seek to usurp stuff and organize a state-backed religious institution that would demand obedience to a hierarchical power structure... that might make quite a bit of sense really, but what would that really say about Him personally?

[Woodruff]

What is fanatism?

He mis-spelled Fantaism, which is the strong belief that Fanta is way better than the other soft drink products.

"God will be there to judge each according to his deeds when we die and finally have to face him."

Well I'm not worried, my lawyer makes the OJ Simpson legal team look like poker playing dogs.

That might not be a good thing - poker playing dogs are pretty damn cool!

"God will be there to judge each according to his deeds when we die and finally have to face him."

only the people who believe in him will have to face him

Uh...I'm pretty sure that's not how it works.

[nietzsche]

Saxi,

- What did you mean by The bulk of mainstream theological thought in Christianity and Judaism if you said that?

- Do you mean to suggest Hebrew nomads made up stories about Eden? What if there's actually ancient artwork from across the planet that have to do with it?

Red man and woman being offered something from a tree?































Snake with legs and man after just having eyes opened to stuff?









After learning about regret?

























Learning how to work the earth for food?



Cherubim guarding the tree of life?

































I've added censoring and there is even one or more source reference cropped off possibly. Want a source for something?

- Do you theorize that there were 40 plus writers spread across hundreds of years who made up 65 plus works that back eachother up? And that they all decided to write blatant lies without collaborating with one another in order to ironically or not support religion that's opposed to lying?

And were there followers of Him who had mass hallucinations of seeing Him perform miracles and of seeing Him resurrected who were later martyred due to faith?

- Did He want to physically overthrow a Caesar? Consider a version of Matthew 26:52-53 maybe.

http://yahushua.net/scriptures/matt26.htm

- You might have unintentionally left stuff out from a version of Acts 4:32-37 in a misleading fashion. Here's a complete version perhaps...

4:32 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.

4:33 And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the
Master Yahushua: and great favour was upon them all.

4:34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,

4:35 And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.

4:36 And Joses, who by the apostles was surnamed Barnabas, (which is, being interpreted, The son of consolation,) a Levite, and of the country of Cyprus,

4:37 Having land, sold it, and brought the money, and laid it at the apostles' feet.

- It might be that there was revolutionary fervor sparked by Him that prompted a ruling oligarchy to seek to usurp stuff and organize a state-backed religious institution that would demand obedience to a hierarchical power structure... that might make quite a bit of sense really, but what would that really say about Him personally?

Here we go again!! NO PLEASE!!

[saxitoxin]

Saxi,

- What did you mean by The bulk of mainstream theological thought in Christianity and Judaism if you said that?

- Do you mean to suggest Hebrew nomads made up stories about Eden? What if there's actually ancient artwork from across the planet that have to do with it?

Red man and woman being offered something from a tree?

I mean, among the Abrahamic religions, a majority of doctrinal understanding among Christians and Jews (and a minority among Muslims, namely the Sufi orders) accepts the literary nature of Genesis, versus the literal nature. This is no different than the mystery schools of Greece. Greeks did not literally believe there was a group of gods living on top of a mountain. This was symbolic of a more esoteric truth; a way to impart broad concepts in a manner that could be better understood by a pre-literate society. Western oligarchical capitalism has advanced a misinterpretation of these as supernatural tales, a purpose for which they were not intended.

It would be incorrect and trite to say "made up." In physics there is the thought experiment of Schrodinger's cat to explain the Copenhagen interpretation of quantum mechanics. This is not a literal recitation of an historic fact - it is a literary story designed to communicate the essence of the Copenhagen interpretation to a non-technical audience. There are many graphic representations and explanations of Schrodinger's cat that have been created for explanatory purposes. That doesn't make it an historic event.

This is where I take umbrage with my "fellow" atheists who dismiss religion with words like "fairy tales." This is as misguided and off-kilter as the literal interpretation advanced by theists, IMO.

[nietzsche]

Saxi,

- What did you mean by The bulk of mainstream theological thought in Christianity and Judaism if you said that?

- Do you mean to suggest Hebrew nomads made up stories about Eden? What if there's actually ancient artwork from across the planet that have to do with it?

Red man and woman being offered something from a tree?

I mean, among the Abrahamic religions, a majority of doctrinal understanding among Christians and Jews (and a minority among Muslims, namely the Sufi orders) accepts the literary nature of Genesis, versus the literal nature. This is no different than the mystery schools of Greece. Greeks did not literally believe there was a group of gods living on top of a mountain. This was symbolic of a more esoteric truth; a way to impart broad concepts in a manner that could be better understood by a pre-literate society. Western oligarchical capitalism has advanced a misinterpretation of these as supernatural tales, a purpose for which they were not intended.

It would be incorrect and trite to say "made up." In physics there is the thought experiment of Schrodinger's cat to explain the Copenhagen interpretation of quantum mechanics. This is not a literal recitation of an historic fact - it is a literary story designed to communicate the essence of the Copenhagen interpretation to a non-technical audience. There are many graphic representations and explanations of Schrodinger's cat that have been created for explanatory purposes. That doesn't make it an historic event.

This is where I take umbrage with my "fellow" atheists who dismiss religion with words like "fairy tales." This is as misguided and off-kilter as the literal interpretation advanced by theists, IMO.

Not fairy tales but they do have invisible friends.

[Lionz]

I'm not sure there's any branch of Judaism or Christianity that holds Genesis is a work of fabricated tales intended to teach moral lessons perhaps. Do you have a source suggesting that's the case? Either way, is there a writer from over 500 years ago who treated Genesis as though it contained fabricated tales intended to teach lessons? Consider the Antiquities of the Jews maybe.

By the way, you sure there have not been Greeks who actually believed there were a group of deities who dwelled on top of a mountain? It's actually true that certain angels descended upon the top of a mountain and produced titans with women and taught stuff to mankind that helped lead to increased violence maybe. What's 100% mythological without any basis in reality? Got a theory on the word nephilim? viewtopic.php?f=8&t=113989&start=0


Image not containing words of my own depending on definition at least perhaps.

[saxitoxin]

I'm not sure there's any branch of Judaism or Christianity that holds Genesis is a work of fabricated tales intended to teach moral lessons perhaps. Do you have a source suggesting that's the case?

In fact, almost every branch except Catholicism and Orthodoxy and some Ameri-specific creeds like Baptists and Pentecostals, believe in the Framework Interpretation: Genesis as a literary device, rather than a literal accounting of an historic event. I think you could check-out that tome by the great theologian Huston Smith The World's Religions for a start.

By the way, you sure there have not been Greeks who actually believed there were a group of deities who dwelled on top of a mountain?

Yes, the majority of the illiterate Greek population believed that. As I said, these are literary devices created by an educated nucleus designed to share fundamental truths with those who don't possess the intelligence to understand complex philosophical concepts. They are neither fairy tales nor historic events, they are metaphors.

As Plato said, the truth will not be served up on a platter lest people think they have eaten wisdom with spoons (apologies for the butchered paraphrase of that).

What's 100% mythological without any basis in reality? Got a theory on the word nephilim? viewtopic.php?f=8&t=113989&start=0

I think Art Bell would be better equipped to talk about the nephilim than myself.

[nietzsche]

By the way, you sure there have not been Greeks who actually believed there were a group of deities who dwelled on top of a mountain?

Yes, the majority of the illiterate Greek population believed that. As I said, these are literary devices created by an educated nucleus designed to share fundamental truths with those who don't possess the intelligence to understand complex philosophical concepts. They are neither fairy tales nor historic events, they are metaphors.

As Plato said, the truth will not be served up on a platter lest people think they have eaten wisdom with spoons (apologies for the butchered paraphrase of that).
.

Exactly, metaphors. They didn't have the kind of concepts we have now after 2,500 years of civilization, of science, technology and always every new thinker or scientist standing on the shoulder of giants. For sure the Greeks might have been the first giants.

They didn't have our understanding of science and human body and physics but they still needed to communicate deep feelings they had, or events for which they don't had a word or a clear understanding of it. It worked for them and I'm sure they didn't actually believed there were actual gods on a mountain. The misunderstanding comes later when others start taking those "gods" literally.

This fact is the reason "Nietzsche killed god" and wrote:

[Lionz]

There are words included after images on page 3 that you missed seeing maybe.

Do you have an internet source that claims a church treats Genesis as a literary device rather than a literal accounting of historic events? Maybe we're caught up in a vain discussion either way. What does it really matter what a church holds?

You might personally believe something is a literary device created by an educated nucleus designed to share fundamental truths with individuals who didn't possess intelligence to understand complex philosophical concepts, but we don't have a time machine to take us into the past and we should be careful about making adamant statements maybe. You might lead people to think that you convinced yourself of something simply because it backed up preconceived notions and felt good to you to believe it.

You might think Genesis is a work of fabricated tales intended to teach moral lessons, but do you theorize that there were 40 plus writers spread across hundreds of years who made up 65 plus works that back eachother up? And that they all decided to write blatant lies without collaborating with one another in order to ironically or not support religion that's opposed to lying? Would claiming that a dead person said something that the person never said not be a blatant lie even if the something teaches a moral lesson? If it was claimed by someone with them thinking that the person never said it?