How do you feel about God?

[nietzsche]

There's words included after images on page 3 that you missed seeing maybe.

Do you have an internet source that claims a church treats Genesis as a literary device rather than a literal accounting of historic events? Maybe we're caught up in a vain discussion either way. What does it really matter what a church holds?

You might personally believe something is a literary device created by an educated nucleus designed to share fundamental truths with individuals who didn't possess intelligence to understand complex philosophical concepts, but we don't have a time machine to take us into the past and we should be careful about making adamant statements maybe. You might lead people to think that you convinced yourself of something simply because it backed up preconceived notions and felt good to you to believe it.

You might think Genesis is a work of fabricated tales intended to teach moral lessons, but do you theorize that there were 40 plus writers spread across hundreds of years who made up 65 plus works that back eachother up? And that they all decided to write blatant lies without collaborating with one another in order to ironically or not support religion that's opposed to lying? Would claiming that a dead person said something that the person never said not be a blatant lie even if the something teaches a moral lesson?

Lionz, could you explain your view in the matter? your whole system of beliefs.

From.. I believe you'd say "first there was nothing, and then god..." I'm not being offensive or reductionist, just wanted to give you an example of what I'm looking for.

[saxitoxin]

Do you have an internet source that claims a church treats Genesis as a literary device rather than a literal accounting of historic events?

Because this is such a commonly accepted fact in global theological science the onus, rather, is on you to prove that the Framework Interpretation is not the preferred Christian interpretation by most staid sects.

Were you to assert the sky is green, the onus is not mine to prove the sky is blue, rather on you to prove the contrary.

but we don't have a time machine to take us into the past and we should be careful about making adamant statements maybe

I feel confident WWI took place, even though I didn't personally witness it. Why? Because the overwhelming bulk of evidence, and the consensus view of historians, supports the notion WWI occurred.

In raw terms, yes, it is perhaps statistically possible WWI did not occur.

were 40 plus writers spread across hundreds of years who made up 65 plus works that back eachother up

All philosophy is built on the sound principles of that which preceded it. Hume influenced Keyne, Keyne influenced Krugman.

And that they all decided to write blatant lies without collaborating with one another in order to ironically or not support

Lie is your word, not mine. I used metaphor. The fact you see an absolutist choice between lie and truth seems to validate the necessity of having a philosophy with an esoteric component for the learned and an exoteric component for the population at large.

Anyway, great discussion Lionz and Nietzsche! I've enjoyed jawboning with you all and you have made some great and thought-provoking points.

I'm head out for a long weekend so I'll just depart by noting that, while I may be an atheist, I do believe religious experimentation is necessary to advance important conceptual ideas. Without it, Jesus would never have been able to agitate the global communist revolution that he imagined and that, today, man continues to strive toward.

In the former DDR everyone was free to express themselves artistically, creatively and religiously. Contrast this is Germany in its current degenerate state where the feared German secret police, Bundesamt für Verfassungsschutz, terrorizes the population and actively monitors and suppresses minority religions.

[Lionz]

Niet,

A whole system of beliefs?

Hmm. Putting a whole system of beliefs into words might not be the easiest thing to do. How about I try to provide some examples for starters? Is there something specific you want me to address? Here are some things I believe maybe, but maybe I believe some stuff more than other stuff and whether or not comes down to definition...

- That He created the heavens and the earth

- That He Himself was born as the Son

- That the Son died for trangressions of others and resurrected after dying

- That a number of animals were created that have brought forth variety

- That there are similarities between creatures that have to do with common ancestry and similarities between creatures that have to do with having a common Designer

- That there are angels and angels have rebelled against Him

- That angels came to earth and produced nephilim offspring with humans and taught stuff to humans

- That the flood actually occured and occured less than 4,500 years ago

- That there's deception on earth right now that's partially the result of rebel angels trying to deceive humans

- That there's one or more plan involving beings masquerading as benevolent aliens

Saxi,

What's a commonly accepted fact in global theological science? Maybe we can move past whether or not a church treats Genesis as a literary device rather than a literal accounting of historic events either way. What does it really matter?

WWI occured less than 100 years ago and is a major event you can find first hand witnesses to maybe. Were you not adamantly claiming that there were not Greeks throughout all time who believed there was a group of deities who lived on top of a mountain?

Would claiming that a dead person said something that the person never said not be a blatant lie even if the something teaches a moral lesson? If it was claimed by someone with them thinking that the person never said it?

[jay_a2j]

Yeah, you wish.

What is your alternative proposition?

"Every knee shall bow and every tongue will confess, that Jesus Christ is Lord"


And it's not my proposition, it is what it is.

[nietzsche]

Niet,

A whole system of beliefs?

Hmm. Putting a whole system of beliefs into words might not be the easiest thing to do. How about I try to provide some examples for starters? Is there something specific you want me to address? Here are some things I believe maybe, but maybe I believe some stuff more than other stuff and whether or not comes down to definition...

- That He created the heavens and the earth

- That He Himself was born as the Son

- That the Son died for trangressions of others and resurrected after dying

- That a number of animals were created that have brought forth variety

- That there are similarities between creatures that have to do with common ancestry and similarities between creatures that have to do with having a common Designer

- That there are angels and angels have rebelled against Him

- That angels came to earth and produced nephilim offspring with humans and taught stuff to humans

- That the flood actually occured and occured less than 4,500 years ago

- That there's deception on earth right now that's partially the result of rebel angels trying to deceive humans

- That there's one or more plan involving beings masquerading as benevolent aliens

Saxi,

What's a commonly accepted fact in global theological science? Maybe we can move past whether or not a church treats Genesis as a literary device rather than a literal accounting of historic events either way. What does it really matter?

WWI occured less than 100 years ago and is a major event you can find first hand witnesses to maybe. Were you not adamantly claiming that there were not Greeks throughout all time who believed there was a group of deities who lived on top of a mountain?

Would claiming that a dead person said something that the person never said not be a blatant lie even if the something teaches a moral lesson? If it was claimed by someone with them thinking that the person never said it?

I would like jay to list his sort of system of beliefs as you just did, and I applaud you for doing it, as we always are cheated by believers who don't state their whole arguments and just wait for ours to disprove them.

And those points you listed are fine with me, I will not contest them since being beliefs are not bound to be changed by logic. It's is fine for you tho to rationalize 'em, since you're not nuts.

For the eleventh time I ask jay to come out with his whole thesis, or belief system.

[jay_a2j]

I would like jay to list his sort of system of beliefs as you just did, and I applaud you for doing it, as we always are cheated by believers who don't state their whole arguments and just wait for ours to disprove them.

And those points you listed are fine with me, I will not contest them since being beliefs are not bound to be changed by logic. It's is fine for you tho to rationalize 'em, since you're not nuts.

For the eleventh time I ask jay to come out with his whole thesis, or belief system.

Lionz list looks pretty good with maybe the exception of the flood occurring 4,500 years ago. Not that I disagree with it, just never thought about the time frame in which it happened.