Nephilim

[jimboston]

Maybe all think ancient talk about giants was written by pygmies... and they were just talking about regular people?

[jimboston]

OK... so let's think about this.

We KNOW that in a world where there was limited resources and life was hard... people from different groups fought many many many wars in pre-history and ever since.

We also know that before mechanized weapons... people fought hand-to-hand.

So... why wouldn't the giants always have won?

???

If there ever were giants, why did they not kill off all us short people???

... and to all you conspiracy theorists, what possible reason would science have for hiding this 'evidence'? I am willing to believe in conspiracies, but only if someone can tell me a good reason 'why' the Gov't or the Scientific Community would hold back. If I was a scientist and found real evidence of giants, you can be sure I would publish it... as it would guarantee lots of $$$ for me personally and to fund more research.

[AAFitz]

OK... so let's think about this.

We KNOW that in a world where there was limited resources and life was hard... people from different groups fought many many many wars in pre-history and ever since.

We also know that before mechanized weapons... people fought hand-to-hand.

So... why wouldn't the giants always have won?

???

If there ever were giants, why did they not kill off all us short people???

... and to all you conspiracy theorists, what possible reason would science have for hiding this 'evidence'? I am willing to believe in conspiracies, but only if someone can tell me a good reason 'why' the Gov't or the Scientific Community would hold back. If I was a scientist and found real evidence of giants, you can be sure I would publish it... as it would guarantee lots of $$$ for me personally and to fund more research.

Unless....

The giants were aliens...and they suppress such evidence with their technology.

Of course, what would they even care if we did know they existed? What are we gonna do, nibble their butts?

[notyou2]

Well the TV preacher looked so baffled when i asked him why he dressed
With twenty pounds of headlights stapled to his chest
But he cursed me when i proved to him
And said not even you can hide
You see you're just like me
I hope you're satisfied

Bob Dylan, "Stuck Inside of Mobile with the Memphis Blues Again".


Honibaz

I've seen Dylan play it live and the Dead. What a great tune. Love it.

[Lionz]

Jim,

The flood helped take care of preflood giants and postflood war in Caanan led to some giants being killed off maybe. Are there not even legends having to do with natives from the Americas going to war with giants? Perhaps packs of wolves can take down adult bears.

What if nephilim information and evidence has been suppressed by fallen angels and suppressed mainly for two purposes? With one having to do with conditioning masses for deception having to do with fallen angels showing up publically and masquerading as benevolent aliens? And with one having to do with conditioning masses to think humans slowly evolved to be larger from non-human ape ancestors with or without help from alien entities? Maybe those could actually tie in together.

[jimboston]

Jim,

The flood helped take care of preflood giants and postflood war in Caanan led to some giants being killed off maybe. Are there not even legends having to do with natives from the Americas going to war with giants? Perhaps packs of wolves can take down adult bears.

What if nephilim information and evidence has been suppressed by fallen angels and suppressed mainly for two purposes? With one having to do with conditioning masses for deception having to do with fallen angels showing up publically and masquerading as benevolent aliens? And with one having to do with conditioning masses to think humans slowly evolved to be larger from non-human ape ancestors with or without help from alien entities? Maybe those could actually tie in together.

Yeah... um this sounds real plausible.

NOT

Wouldn't the giants be the one's who survived the floods.... us short people would drown much quicker.

Or better... wouldn't giants attack Noah's Ark and kick him out... of course it would be cramped, but better than drowning.

[King Doctor]

Would they not just have built a bigger Ark for themselves?


Also, if Noah had room for Tyrannosaurus Rex, then what made him turn into such a party-pooper when the Nephigiants rocked up and wanted to join his floating party?

[daddy1gringo]

Would they not just have built a bigger Ark for themselves?

Only if they heeded the warning, which would be unlikely.

Also, if Noah had room for Tyrannosaurus Rex,

If you were planning to re-populate the earth after the ark ride you would take young animals with their whole reproducing life ahead of them. The largest fossil dinosaur eggs yet found are about the size of a football. A young T-rex, or a young apatosaurus for that matter, would not have been so big.

then what made him turn into such a party-pooper when the Nephigiants rocked up and wanted to join his floating party?

Who says they ever did that? Until the floods got real bad you could have thought it was just another shower if you weren't inclined to heed the warnings that Noah had been giving them for years, and by that time God had shut up the ark and it was too late.

[b.k. barunt]

Who says they ever did that? Until the floods got real bad you could have thought it was just another shower if you weren't inclined to heed the warnings that Noah had been giving them for years, and by that time God had shut up the ark and it was too late.

"Just another shower"? Actually no. Until the flood there was no rain. No direct sunlight either - why do you think no one had ever seen a rainbow before?


Honibaz

[PLAYER57832]

Who says they ever did that? Until the floods got real bad you could have thought it was just another shower if you weren't inclined to heed the warnings that Noah had been giving them for years, and by that time God had shut up the ark and it was too late.

"Just another shower"? Actually no. Until the flood there was no rain. No direct sunlight either - why do you think no one had ever seen a rainbow before?


Honibaz

Now that is a perspective I have never heard before!

[daddy1gringo]

Who says they ever did that? Until the floods got real bad you could have thought it was just another shower if you weren't inclined to heed the warnings that Noah had been giving them for years, and by that time God had shut up the ark and it was too late.

"Just another shower"? Actually no. Until the flood there was no rain. No direct sunlight either - why do you think no one had ever seen a rainbow before?


Honibaz

Now that is a perspective I have never heard before!

Oh yeah, actually it's the most likely thing. It's just that KD had probably never heard of it, so I wasn't going to confuse the issue with it. My point was just that it was unlikely, if there were giant nephilim there, that they would have asked to go on the ark.

But, yeah, It's very likely that there was no such thing as rain before the flood. There is no mention of it, but Gen. 2.6 talks of a mist watering the ground in the garden. Gen 1: 6-9 says he put waters above the heavens and other waters below the heavens, which were gathered into seas. Then when it talks about the flood happening it says that "the windows of heaven were opened" The implication is that there was originally a layer of water in the upper atmosphere, but God disbanded it and that was what He used for the flood, (that and "the fountains of the deep" which could be underground reservoirs, as Lionz talked about). That explains a lot of things.

First that explains why the earth was a garden and everybody/thing lived so long. That layer of water would create a greenhouse effect, diffuse and distribute the sun's energy, and screen out harmful radiation. After the flood, that was no longer there, and that is when you see lifespans drastically drop.

That also fits with the dinosaur thing from my last post. It is probable that the dinosaurs, like either some or all modern reptiles, never stopped growing like most other animals do. So if everything lived 500-900 years, the ones that never stopped growing would get very big, even though they started no larger than anything else.

It also explains everyone's incredulity. "What? water falling from the sky?! What a ridiculous idea." Also as BK mentioned, it could explain that being the first rainbow, after the flood.

It's not clearly stated, but it makes sense and is the most likely scenario.

[b.k. barunt]

I'd say Genesis 2:5 stated it clearly when it said He hadn't made it rain yet. The first mention of rain is at the flood.


Honibaz

[King Doctor]

If you were planning to re-populate the earth after the ark ride you would take young animals with their whole reproducing life ahead of them. The largest fossil dinosaur eggs yet found are about the size of a football. A young T-rex, or a young apatosaurus for that matter, would not have been so big.

Surely you would need to take animals that were properly adapted for life after the Ark? Releasing young and undeveloped animals into the wild, sans parents, is a recipe for near immediate death.

Why would Noah have embarked upon such an obviously flawed scheme?

Who says they ever did that? Until the floods got real bad you could have thought it was just another shower if you weren't inclined to heed the warnings that Noah had been giving them for years, and by that time God had shut up the ark and it was too late.

Well, apparently every single other animal on the planet figured out that it was a good idea (including stupid ones like sheep and stegosaurus) why not a couple of Nephigiants too? Or were they the only ones that didn't?

[daddy1gringo]

Yes, in one way the animals, and even the rocks, are smarter than we are. They just do what God created them to do. We're the only geniuses who have figured out how to rebel and make ourselves miserable.

BK, Good point. It is clearly stated that up to that point it had not rained yet, though that's a bit earlier.

[b.k. barunt]

If you were planning to re-populate the earth after the ark ride you would take young animals with their whole reproducing life ahead of them. The largest fossil dinosaur eggs yet found are about the size of a football. A young T-rex, or a young apatosaurus for that matter, would not have been so big.

Surely you would need to take animals that were properly adapted for life after the Ark? Releasing young and undeveloped animals into the wild, sans parents, is a recipe for near immediate death.

Why would Noah have embarked upon such an obviously flawed scheme?

Who says they ever did that? Until the floods got real bad you could have thought it was just another shower if you weren't inclined to heed the warnings that Noah had been giving them for years, and by that time God had shut up the ark and it was too late.

Well, apparently every single other animal on the planet figured out that it was a good idea (including stupid ones like sheep and stegosaurus) why not a couple of Nephigiants too? Or were they the only ones that didn't?

Actually the animals didn't figure anything out - Noah had to put them on the ark.


Honibaz

[daddy1gringo]

Well, apparently every single other animal on the planet figured out that it was a good idea (including stupid ones like sheep and stegosaurus) why not a couple of Nephigiants too? Or were they the only ones that didn't?

Actually the animals didn't figure anything out - Noah had to put them on the ark.

yeah, that too. In the movies all the animals come by themselves.

[King Doctor]

But, conveniently, only the baby ones?

Or, did Noah just manage to do a lighting Santaesque tour of the world beforehand, rounding up a brace of infant animals from each species as he went?




Apologies for all these questions, but I really am keen to understand quite how you gents think that a Dark Ages dude managed to organise this whole schebang.

[tzor]

Apologies for all these questions, but I really am keen to understand quite how you gents think that a Dark Ages dude managed to organise this whole schebang.

Excuse me, but Noah is not "Dark Ages." He's Antediluvian. The "Dark ages" happened after Christ.

[daddy1gringo]

But, conveniently, only the baby ones?

Or, did Noah just manage to do a lighting Santaesque tour of the world beforehand, rounding up a brace of infant animals from each species as he went?




Apologies for all these questions, but I really am keen to understand quite how you gents think that a Dark Ages dude managed to organise this whole schebang.

Well, understand that if "us gents" are correct about this, he wasn't on his own; it was set up from somewhat higher on the chain of command. If there is a God, it wouldn't be difficult for Him.

What I and many others think is that all the continents were still together in pangea at that point.(I'm guessing that that includes BK and Lionz, but not sure.) A few points about that.

--That would make the task of gathering animals from all over do-able.
--It makes the idea of a flood covering all land on earth more feasible: it was all in one place.
--Current estimates of how long ago there could have been a pangea based on the speed of continental drift have to assume a certain amount of consistency in the speed. What if the plates are slowing down at a higher rate than usually assumed.
--Cataclysmic geologic events that may have been associated with the flood could have also been the initial shove.
--This would explain the problem with the tower of Babel. God told them to go all over the earth and populate it; they wanted to stay all gathered in one place. They didn't know what He did: at that point only a narrow channel probably separated the lands, crossable with a small boat, but all that was changing and that opportunity would soon be gone.

[b.k. barunt]

Interesting point on the separation of the continents. You have to dig a bit for it, but the scriptures would indicate that the separation of the continents happened within a generation (40 years or so) around the same time as the Tower of Babel.


Honibaz

[PLAYER57832]

Interesting point on the separation of the continents. You have to dig a bit for it, but the scriptures would indicate that the separation of the continents happened within a generation (40 years or so) around the same time as the Tower of Babel.


Honibaz

? care to explain?

[daddy1gringo]

A few added points.

About Noah gathering all the animals, besides all of the continents being together, we are taking the long lifespans literally because the protective water-layer of the atmosphere would make it possible, so Noah would have had about 100 years for the task of building the ark and gathering the animals. Still a monumental task, but no lightning-santa-claus thing needed.

Also, fewer species may be involved than you would think. Many of what are considered species today may only be sub-species; populations which developed various characteristics to adapt to their circumstances but could still reproduce with each other. This is still consistent with Creationist theory: no new species was created.

Regarding the scriptures supporting Pangea, Gen 1 says the waters under heaven were gathered in one place for the dry land to appear (v.9). That sounds more like the world of pangea than like the current configuration.

Just so I don't bury players' question BK, I'd be interested in those scriptural diggings too.

[PLAYER57832]

A few added points.

About Noah gathering all the animals, besides all of the continents being together, we are taking the long lifespans literally because the protective water-layer of the atmosphere would make it possible, so Noah would have had about 100 years for the task of building the ark and gathering the animals. Still a monumental task, but no lightning-santa-claus thing needed.

now these are things I hear mentioned occasionally, but where in the Bible does it say this.. particularly the bit about it taking 100 years to build the ark?

Also, fewer species may be involved than you would think. Many of what are considered species today may only be sub-species; populations which developed various characteristics to adapt to their circumstances but could still reproduce with each other. This is still consistent with Creationist theory: no new species was created.

There are 2 problems not explained by that, though. The first is the fossil evidence. The second is that a lot, and I mean a LOT of species are just not mentioned in the Bible at all.

Regarding the scriptures supporting Pangea, Gen 1 says the waters under heaven were gathered in one place for the dry land to appear (v.9). That sounds more like the world of pangea than like the current configuration.

Yes, but it also could be reference to the gathering of earth itself.

[daddy1gringo]

A few added points.

About Noah gathering all the animals, besides all of the continents being together, we are taking the long lifespans literally because the protective water-layer of the atmosphere would make it possible, so Noah would have had about 100 years for the task of building the ark and gathering the animals. Still a monumental task, but no lightning-santa-claus thing needed.

now these are things I hear mentioned occasionally, but where in the Bible does it say this.. particularly the bit about it taking 100 years to build the ark?

Went looking for it. Found where it says he was 600 when the rains came and they went into the ark(7:6). Thought there was somewhere that it says he was 500 when God called him to start, but can't find that. In any event, it didn't have to be overnight.

Also, fewer species may be involved than you would think. Many of what are considered species today may only be sub-species; populations which developed various characteristics to adapt to their circumstances but could still reproduce with each other. This is still consistent with Creationist theory: no new species was created.

There are 2 problems not explained by that, though. The first is the fossil evidence.

Our differences about the fossil record are for another thread, but are you sure that the fossil evidence that you are talking about actually proves things that are inconsistent with what I have said?

The second is that a lot, and I mean a LOT of species are just not mentioned in the Bible at all.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but the Bible never attempts to give a complete list of the species of the earth. Certainly not in the flood account; it just talks about "every kind of animal" and so on.

[tzor]

A few added points.

About Noah gathering all the animals, besides all of the continents being together, we are taking the long lifespans literally because the protective water-layer of the atmosphere would make it possible, so Noah would have had about 100 years for the task of building the ark and gathering the animals. Still a monumental task, but no lightning-santa-claus thing needed.

now these are things I hear mentioned occasionally, but where in the Bible does it say this.. particularly the bit about it taking 100 years to build the ark?

Went looking for it. Found where it says he was 600 when the rains came and they went into the ark(7:6). Thought there was somewhere that it says he was 500 when God called him to start, but can't find that. In any event, it didn't have to be overnight.

Almost ... in fact that applies to a lot of the arguments around here ...

5:32 When Noah was five hundred years old, he became the father of Shem, Ham, and Japheth.
6:1 When men began to multiply on earth and daughters were born to them,
6:3 Then the LORD said: "My spirit shall not remain in man forever, since he is but flesh. His days shall comprise one hundred and twenty years."
6:5 When the LORD saw how great was man's wickedness on earth ...
7:4 Seven days from now I will bring rain down on the earth for forty days and forty nights ...
7:5 Noah was six hundred years old when the flood waters came upon the earth.
7:7 Together with his sons, his wife, and his sons' wives, Noah went into the ark because of the waters of the flood.
7:10 As soon as the seven days were over, the waters of the flood came upon the earth.

By the way, I threw in 6:3 just for humor sake. I mean God basically says that 120 is the max age limit for man and this man Noah lives another 100 years without penalty. Basically his sons had wives so that limits the time somewhat. In any event the time to gather all the animals in the world was seven days.