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Racism in America Today

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Racism in America Today

Postby bedub1 on Mon Aug 02, 2010 12:30 pm

I am starting to feel that race is becoming an even larger part of Americans life now than in the past years. I find that the attention is unwarranted. I'll give some examples as to why.

If you make a picture of George Bush looking like a monkey it's political. But if you make one of Obama looking like a monkey, people call it racist.
If Arizona passes a law against illegal immigrants, Canadians, it's illegal immigration reform. But if they are Mexicans, it's racist.
I don't want poor people to move into my neighborhood. If poor people are white, I'm a poorist. But if the poor people are black, I'm a racist.
If a white cop beats up a white kid, it's police brutality. If a white cop beats up a black kid, it's racist.
If 95% of blacks vote for Clinton, it's because they are democrats. If 95% of blacks vote for Obama, it's because they are racist.
If you use statistics to identify who needs financial aid it's democratic. If you use statistics to identify who might blow up a plane or a bomb, it's racist.

Do you notice that none of the items above are actually racist? It's all about "Correlation does not imply causation".
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Re: Racism in America Today

Postby joecoolfrog on Mon Aug 02, 2010 2:16 pm

It all comes down to perception, people will read into things that which they want to believe.
What you need to ask yourself is whether a larger percentage of citizens are today greviously discriminated against solely because of the colour of their skin, I would venture this is not so.
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Re: Racism in America Today

Postby thegreekdog on Mon Aug 02, 2010 2:19 pm

I think the divisive issues in the United States are related to economic factors rather than race. I think Chris Rock once said that he'd rather be a poor white man than a rich black man. I couldn't disagree with him more.
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Re: Racism in America Today

Postby bedub1 on Tue Aug 03, 2010 1:38 pm

joecoolfrog wrote:It all comes down to perception, people will read into things that which they want to believe.
What you need to ask yourself is whether a larger percentage of citizens are today greviously discriminated against solely because of the colour of their skin, I would venture this is not so.

I agree. People see whatever they want to see.
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Re: Racism in America Today

Postby got tonkaed on Tue Aug 03, 2010 2:39 pm

When correlation does not imply causation, it is often because the results fail to occur within reasonable context. For instance, if I were to argue that shoe size equated to intelligence, I would rightly be rebuffed as when we age and our feet continue to grow, we continue to develop critical thinking skills which allow us to show intelligence in a variety of ways. Thus the simplistic idea that just because one's shoe size grows, one becomes more intelligent is rather silly.

Now I could venture a guess, that for a variety of those issues that were listed in the op, you could find context in which claims of racism could be justified. It is not difficult to see why portraying Obama as a monkey may have a differnet connotation than in other instances. Nor is it diffcult to see a contextual difference between immigration differences in Arizona policy.

The nebulous thing behind all of these areas is the issue of intent. And while it is easy to find people who are racist in both of the situations listed above, there are quite probably people who are not. But when we assume context is generalized, which many of those contexts could be, it is not hard to posit that people who consistently find themselves with positions that are contexutally defined to be racist, might actually be in fact, racist.
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Re: Racism in America Today

Postby b.k. barunt on Tue Aug 03, 2010 2:48 pm

I live in Louisiana. Racism is alive and well here. Granted, the last "Whites Only" sign i say was in Cecilia in 1976, but the sentiments are still there. I would say that the majority of whites in the US are racist. Probably 80% of them would deny it but it's still there.

Interesting thing down here is that suddenly, in the past ten years or so, a large number of adolescent white girls are going after the dark meat. What's exceptionally strange about it is that it's happening more in the smaller redneck towns than in the cities. The parents are freaking out. Good times.


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Re: Racism in America Today

Postby thegreekdog on Tue Aug 03, 2010 3:15 pm

got tonkaed wrote:When correlation does not imply causation, it is often because the results fail to occur within reasonable context. For instance, if I were to argue that shoe size equated to intelligence, I would rightly be rebuffed as when we age and our feet continue to grow, we continue to develop critical thinking skills which allow us to show intelligence in a variety of ways. Thus the simplistic idea that just because one's shoe size grows, one becomes more intelligent is rather silly.

Now I could venture a guess, that for a variety of those issues that were listed in the op, you could find context in which claims of racism could be justified. It is not difficult to see why portraying Obama as a monkey may have a differnet connotation than in other instances. Nor is it diffcult to see a contextual difference between immigration differences in Arizona policy.

The nebulous thing behind all of these areas is the issue of intent. And while it is easy to find people who are racist in both of the situations listed above, there are quite probably people who are not. But when we assume context is generalized, which many of those contexts could be, it is not hard to posit that people who consistently find themselves with positions that are contexutally defined to be racist, might actually be in fact, racist.


Seriously... you're missed around here.
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Re: Racism in America Today

Postby bedub1 on Tue Aug 03, 2010 6:27 pm

thegreekdog wrote:
got tonkaed wrote:When correlation does not imply causation, it is often because the results fail to occur within reasonable context. For instance, if I were to argue that shoe size equated to intelligence, I would rightly be rebuffed as when we age and our feet continue to grow, we continue to develop critical thinking skills which allow us to show intelligence in a variety of ways. Thus the simplistic idea that just because one's shoe size grows, one becomes more intelligent is rather silly.

Now I could venture a guess, that for a variety of those issues that were listed in the op, you could find context in which claims of racism could be justified. It is not difficult to see why portraying Obama as a monkey may have a differnet connotation than in other instances. Nor is it diffcult to see a contextual difference between immigration differences in Arizona policy.

The nebulous thing behind all of these areas is the issue of intent. And while it is easy to find people who are racist in both of the situations listed above, there are quite probably people who are not. But when we assume context is generalized, which many of those contexts could be, it is not hard to posit that people who consistently find themselves with positions that are contexutally defined to be racist, might actually be in fact, racist.


Seriously... you're missed around here.

I couldn't agree more. No flames, no hate, just a well though out and articulated statement.

So now that we know some of the people are racist, what about the policy itself or the picture itself? Is the policy racist? Or the picture? Or, as it's been said, are the people that created it and the people that view it the racists? Should a law that was created by racists, and loved by racists, but in and of itself is a good just law and not racist in any way, be allowed, or denied?
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Re: Racism in America Today

Postby got tonkaed on Wed Aug 04, 2010 1:03 am

Policy probably cant ever be created in vaccum, as it should act upon something in some way. If the motivations behind a particular action are racist, it doesn't mean the motivations are always going to explicity expressed in the law itself. As b.k. says, you probably wont find anymore 'whites only' signs.

The real issue is probably that there are a whole lot of people who still hold views that might not be so polite to share at dinner parties. But the beauty of a system where there are many different actors is that there are always going to be others who can point out the flaws and failings of the other actors. The system itself may not be entirely fair at this point, but as time passes, more actors will continue to emerge.

Whether or not identity politics is a desirable outcome may be debatable, but I suspect most politics inevitably deal with some form of identification, be it economic, social, political or racial. A democratic system is at the very least, probably more healthy if there are more people with similar status in the system contributing.

also, thanks guys.
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Re: Racism in America Today

Postby ViperOverLord on Wed Aug 04, 2010 1:33 am

It's less about racism than it is about the race card. That's all I gots to say. You feelin me?
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Re: Racism in America Today

Postby Woodruff on Wed Aug 04, 2010 12:29 pm

ViperOverLord wrote:It's less about racism than it is about the race card. That's all I gots to say. You feelin me?


No. The race card certainly does get played...all too often. But real racism exists in much more reality than that of the race card. Then again, you and I would probably disagree in some instances on what constitutes real racism and what constitutes playing the race card.
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A Sad Story

Postby HapSmo19 on Wed Aug 04, 2010 1:43 pm

Christopher Patlan was hanging out with friends on the Red River when he heard the desperate screams coming from seven teenagers. One minute they were wading in shallow water, the next they plunged into a dropoff 25 feet deep.

Patlan bolted the 10 yards to the river and jumped in, saving 15-year-old DeKendrix Warner. By the time he had dragged the boy to safety, the six others from two families — all nonswimmers — had drowned. Family members, who also can't swim, watched helplessly.

"Everything happened so fast. It was like a wreck," Patlan said Tuesday.

Just minutes earlier, Monday afternoon had started out as a typical summer get-together. A large group of relatives and friends, including about 20 children, gathered on a sandy shore near the northwest Louisiana river's bank to cool off from the oppressive heat and to barbecue. They hadn't even set up the grill.

The teens were splashing around in waist-high water when DeKendrix stepped off a slippery ledge. As he kicked and flailed, one cousin rushed to help — and found himself plunging into the severe dropoff. Then another.

"It's hard when you can't save your kids," said Maude Warner, whose 13-year-old daughter Takeitha and sons 14-year-old JaMarcus and 17-year-old JaTavious were among those who drowned.

"It's hard when you just see your kids drowning and you can't save them," she told KTBS TV.

The other victims were three brothers: 18-year-old Litrelle Stewart, 17-year-old LaDairus and 15-year-old Latevin.

The area of the drownings is near a public park, but it's not a designated recreational or swimming spot and no lifeguards are on duty. It's frequented by swimmers and fishermen, who must walk through woods along a path to reach the river. The city had just dug a trench to limit access to it.

"The river is a dangerous place. It's no place to even put your foot in if you don't know how to swim," said Shreveport Fire Chief Brian Crawford.

The lone life jacket nearby was thrown to the victims but none could reach it.

The tragedy highlights an unsettling statistic. Sixty-nine percent of black children have little or no swimming ability, compared to 41.8 percent of white children, according to a study released last spring by the sports governing body USA Swimming. All the Louisiana victims were black.

And African-Americans drown at a rate 20 percent higher than whites, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

For decades, segregation limited the access of black people to public and private pools and the disparity continues because many poor and working-class children still have limited access to pools or instruction.

Monday's tragedy "confirms what we are finding — this continuing cycle of people not knowing how to swim and their children not knowing how to swim and still being around water," said Sue Anderson, USA Swimming's Director of Programs and Services.

"The lack of awareness of how important it is that children learn how to swim."

Patlan, who saved the one teen, is white and Hispanic and took swimming lessons as a kid.

Parental fear and lack of parental encouragement were the top two reasons children and parents gave for not swimming, Anderson said, adding that fear trumped any financial limitations in the study.

"Adults seem to pass their fear of water onto their children," she said. "There seems to be a culture that says, 'Its a scary environment don't go there.'"

Marilyn Robinson, a friend of the families, was among the adults who could only watch the victims go under.

"None of us could swim," Robinson told The Shreveport Times. "They were yelling 'Help me, help me! Somebody please help me!' It was nothing I could do but watch them drown one by one."

Korey Prest said he tried in vain to save one of the victims. "He slipped out of my hands. I couldn't feel him no more," he said.

After a more than two-hour search, divers discovered the teens' bodies at nightfall, in a muddy 30-foot-deep section of the river about 20 feet from where they disappeared. The murky water hindered the divers, who sectioned off the river as they meticulously searched the bottom.

At their Shreveport neighborhood on Tuesday, family and friends gathered to offer condolences, hugging one another and holding an impromptu prayer vigil.

"These are some of the greatest kids in the world," said the Rev. Emmitt Welch, who knew all the victims in his work as a Baptist youth minister. "I mean when you think about the ideal children, these kids are wonderful."

Nearby, DeKendrix leaned against a pole, the lone survivor plucking nervously at his purple T-shirt, and sighed.

___

Associated Press Writer Lisa Orkin Emmanuel in Miami contributed to this report.


That's a pretty sad story but did Associated Press Writer Lisa Orkin Emmanuel in Miami just try to blame whitey for it?
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Re: A Sad Story

Postby got tonkaed on Wed Aug 04, 2010 1:50 pm

id say if anything there was a small call to action to make sure children learn basic swimming skills. That is a sad story.
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Re: A Sad Story

Postby mviola on Wed Aug 04, 2010 2:06 pm

This looks like another racism thread is about to start. There certainly aren't enough of those around here.
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Re: A Sad Story

Postby HapSmo19 on Wed Aug 04, 2010 2:10 pm

got tonkaed wrote:id say if anything there was a small call to action to make sure children learn basic swimming skills.


That's a good idea I'd say but how is this kind of stuff even relevant to that call of action?:

For decades, segregation limited the access of black people to public and private pools and the disparity continues because many poor and working-class children still have limited access to pools or instruction.

A quick google search brings up seven public swimming pools in the shreveport area and I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess that none of them are segregated. Not even way back around 1995 when those kids were born.
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Re: A Sad Story

Postby HapSmo19 on Wed Aug 04, 2010 2:13 pm

mviola wrote:This looks like another racism thread is about to start.


This is a reverse-racism thread. Get it straight.
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Re: A Sad Story

Postby danes on Wed Aug 04, 2010 2:21 pm

I guess i shouldn't have learned to swim either because my grandpa didn't know how?

Great excuses. Seriously though, if your kids don't know how to swim, maybe you shouldn't take them to the river? I know how to swim, but because rivers are so unpredictable, often times I'll bring a life jacket anyways. Just seems like a better idea.
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Re: A Sad Story

Postby HapSmo19 on Wed Aug 04, 2010 2:37 pm

danes wrote:I guess i shouldn't have learned to swim either because my grandpa didn't know how?

Great excuses. Seriously though, if your kids don't know how to swim, maybe you shouldn't take them to the river? I know how to swim, but because rivers are so unpredictable, often times I'll bring a life jacket anyways. Just seems like a better idea.


They brought a(1) life jacket =D>
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Re: A Sad Story

Postby jonesthecurl on Wed Aug 04, 2010 2:38 pm

It's historical inertia. People who weren't allowed to swim didn't teach their kids to swim. The problem lessens as time goes on - and public pools are so far as I know not segregated anywhere now. But poor families are less likely to buy access to pools, especially if the parents can't swim. My local pool, for instance, costs several hundred dollars for a season family membership.

Having said that, it seems that about half of the US doesn't know how to swim. That's awful.

In the UK, there are very few open-air pools, because the weather seldom permits outdoor swimming. One result of this is that every area has indoor, heated pools, open to the public. I used to swim twice a week all year round, and although I love our (outdoor) pool here, it's open only from June to Labor Day. I miss swimming the rest of the year.
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Re: A Sad Story

Postby HapSmo19 on Wed Aug 04, 2010 2:47 pm

jonesthecurl wrote:In the UK, there are very few open-air pools, because the weather seldom permits outdoor swimming. One result of this is that every area has indoor, heated pools, open to the public.


Aren't those segregated now?
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Re: A Sad Story

Postby jonesthecurl on Wed Aug 04, 2010 2:52 pm

HapSmo19 wrote:
jonesthecurl wrote:In the UK, there are very few open-air pools, because the weather seldom permits outdoor swimming. One result of this is that every area has indoor, heated pools, open to the public.


Aren't those segregated now?



Yes. Non-swimmers have to stay in the shallow end.
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Re: A Sad Story

Postby HapSmo19 on Wed Aug 04, 2010 2:55 pm

jonesthecurl wrote:Yes. Non-swimmers have to stay in the shallow end.



Hmm. I heard that christians aren't allowed to swim with the muslims.
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Re: A Sad Story

Postby HapSmo19 on Wed Aug 04, 2010 3:00 pm

Back on topic:

Maybe the guns in the waistbands of their speedos weighed em' down.

Or their pants drooping down around their knees kept em from treading water.

Oh shit. I'm actually gonna hit 'submit'......
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Re: A Sad Story

Postby jonesthecurl on Wed Aug 04, 2010 3:01 pm

jonesthecurl wrote:
HapSmo19 wrote:
jonesthecurl wrote:In the UK, there are very few open-air pools, because the weather seldom permits outdoor swimming. One result of this is that every area has indoor, heated pools, open to the public.


Aren't those segregated now?



Yes. Non-swimmers have to stay in the shallow end.


If only we had a similar rule in this forum.
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Re: A Sad Story

Postby mviola on Wed Aug 04, 2010 3:02 pm

HapSmo19 wrote:Back on topic:

Maybe the guns in the waistbands of their speedos weighed em' down.

Or their pants drooping down around their knees kept em from treading water.

Oh shit. I'm actually gonna hit 'submit'......

Maybe it was just a bad idea to go into a river when you can't swim.
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