Logic dictates that there is a God!

[cmeb4udie]

Jesus Christ, I can't believe I'm actually wasting my time responding to this drivel.

First off put aside any bias that you may have...weather it be religious or anti-religious.

Ok, but you first, you hypocrite. Take a good look at the answers you provided for your poll, and tell me with a straight face and fingers uncrossed that you're really checking your bias at the door, and not just trolling.
You should know that no sensible person could ever provide an answer to the question you ask and give you a one-word answer, so your poll is irrelevant.

trace back all life to its orgin...the very first living thing. Where did it come from?

Well, the popular theory is primordial ooze, you peasant. Maybe if you would've spent a little more time in science class and a little less time in Sunday school, you might have heard that.

There must be a God.

Some sort of consciousness linking us all together, perhaps. A man in the sky who sends you to a fiery pit when you don't do what he says (but he loves you)? I don't think so.

Science also dictates evolution could never have happened

Since this is 100% false, I can only assume that you're an immature troll who is only posting redundant Bible Belt philosophy for attention. Grow up, and when you do, open a fucking book or two and learn something. Oh... wait. I forgot. The Bible tells you everything you need to know: If you can't explain it, it's a mystery.

That's crap. This thread is crap. You are the embodiment of nearly everything that I hate most about this country.

Obviosly you DIDN'T put aside your bias. The poll has NOTHING to do with the logic of life's orgin. Keep spewing insults there..I've been called worse by better.

primordial ooze???? What is this star trek?

You can't refute a single thing in the original post! You are hell bent on the non-existence of God. Maybe if you simply pondered the orgin of life you'd see that SCIENCE does not have the answer!

Evolution my friend is an imposibility.... Science teaches the ability to SPEAK is a LEARNED behavior! Who then taught the apes to speak? and not just 1 language but hundreds of them????

Furthermore if evolution is always happening WHY do we not see it all around us??? Perhaps a bird with gills or a lizard with feathers?? Even a single fossil of a gekko growing a wing bone! EVOLUTION IS A LIE.... much like the drivel you posted.

If you hate this country for what it stands for then why don't you leave it then? You know......One Nation UNDER GOD....

[dagreatbroomhead]

just because there are things he hates doesn't mean that a different country is better for him, IE. family and friends. and please don't even start with the pledge. its a bunch of whinny bastards that don't want their kids saying "god"

[vtmarik]

marik wrote: "The observable event of the earth revolving around the sun is a theory. And that too is contradicted by the Bible. " <<<<< This is the SECOND time you have posted this and failed both times to give chapter and verse. I don't recall any verse that states the sun revolving around the Earth.

I'm more prepared this time! I have found a good searchable online Bible!

Joshua 10:12-13

"On the day the LORD gave the Amorites over to Israel, Joshua said to the LORD in the presence of Israel:
"O sun, stand still over Gibeon,
O moon, over the Valley of Aijalon."
"So the sun stood still,
and the moon stopped,
till the nation avenged itself on [a] its enemies,
as it is written in the Book of Jashar.
The sun stopped in the middle of the sky and delayed going down about a full day."


If the sun stopped, then the sun must have revolved around the earth in direct contradiction of scientific observations. How's that for a reference?

If you hate this country for what it stands for then why don't you leave it then? You know......One Nation UNDER GOD....

Under God, which was tacked on in the 1950s because we hated the Godless communists.

The original pledge to the flag contained no reference to God whatsoever, and was in fact part of a advertising campaign by a flag company to sell more flags.

It's just like standing in front of a giant Nike swoosh and reciting "Just do it."

[jay_a2j]

I'm more prepared this time! I have found a good searchable online Bible!

Joshua 10:12-13

"On the day the LORD gave the Amorites over to Israel, Joshua said to the LORD in the presence of Israel:
"O sun, stand still over Gibeon,
O moon, over the Valley of Aijalon."
"So the sun stood still,
and the moon stopped,
till the nation avenged itself on [a] its enemies,
as it is written in the Book of Jashar.
The sun stopped in the middle of the sky and delayed going down about a full day."


If the sun stopped, then the sun must have revolved around the earth in direct contradiction of scientific observations. How's that for a reference?

You have serious problems. The sun stood still.... (the earth stopped rotating!) Thus the sun did not move in the sky! You read into scripture. It is your assumption that the sun rotates around the earth in that scripture. It does not say that or even imply that!

[Jolly Roger]

The earth stopped rotating - a perfectly reasonable explanation - happens all the time

[vtmarik]

You have serious problems. The sun stood still.... (the earth stopped rotating!) Thus the sun did not move in the sky! You read into scripture. It is your assumption that the sun rotates around the earth in that scripture. It does not say that or even imply that!

Another notable passage is where the writer of Joshua is (understandably) unaware of the heliocentric nature of the sun and earth. He writes:

And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasper? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day. (Joshua 10:13)

During the centuries preceding, and even into the Common Era after Joshua, it was common knowledge that the earth was immovable and that the sun and moon rose and set over the earth.(The geocentric cosmology survived until Copernicus in the sixteenth century.) When the author of Joshua wrote this passage he meant for it to be taken quite literally. There is no reason not to take it that way in fact, and it would have seemed ridiculous to an ancient Hebrew to have Joshua 10:13 taken in any other way in the same sense that we would hesitate if someone were to ask us today if we really thought that the earth revolved around the sun. This passage has been swept aside by apologists as a mere metaphor, but the skeptic knows the context, history, and scant astronomical knowledge of the ancient Semitic peoples and realizes that this passage was meant to be taken quite literally. All literature and philosophy of the ancient world took it for granted that the earth was motionless and that the sun revolved around the earth. Again, to explain it as symbolic is to retroactively apply modern cosmological knowledge to an ancient peoples understanding of their universe - a hasty excuse that just doesn't fit common sense or the facts.

from Critique of "Reasons Skeptics Should Consider Christianity" by Josh McDowell and Don Stewart

And another thing, if the Earth stopped rotating it would have disastrous consquences to life on the planet's surface:

The probability for such an event is practically zero in the next few billion years. If the Earth stopped spinning suddenly, the atmosphere would still be in motion with the Earth's original 1100 mile per hour rotation speed at the equator. All of the land masses would be scoured clean of anything not attached to bedrock. This means rocks, topsoil, trees, buildings, your pet dog, and so on, would be swept away into the atmosphere.

If the process happened gradually over billions of years, the situation would be very different, and it is this possibility which is the most likely as the constant torquing of the Sun and Moon upon the Earth finally reaches it's conclusion. If the rotation period slowed to 1 rotation every 365 days a condition called 'sun synchronous', every spot in the Earth would have permanent daytime or nighttime all year long. This is similar to the situation on the Moon where for 2 weeks the front-side is illuminated by the Sun, and for 2 weeks the back side is illuminated. This situation for the Earth is not the condition of 'stopped' rotation, but it is as close as the laws of physics will let the Earth get.



If it stopped spinning completely...not even once every 365 days, you would get 1/2 year daylight and 1/2 year nightime. During daytime for 6 months, the surface temperature would depend on your latitude, being far hotter that it is now at the equator than at the poles where the light rays are more slanted and heating efficiency is lower. This long-term temperature gradient would alter the atmospheric wind circulation pattern so that the air would move from the equator to the poles rather than in wind systems parallel to the equator like they are now. The yearly change in the Sun's position in the sky would now be just its seasonal motion up and down the sky towards the south due to the orbit of the Earth and its axial tilt. As you moved along constant lines of Earth latitude, you would see the elevation of the Sun increase or decrease in the sky just as we now see the elevation of the Sun change from a single point on the Earth due to the Earth's daily rotation.

For example, if you were at a latitude of +24 degrees North in the Summer and at a longitude where the Sun was exactly overhead, it would slide gradually to the horizon as Fall approached, but since the Sun has moved 90 degrees in its orbit, it would now be due west. Then as we approach Winter, you would now be located on the dark side of the Earth, and would have to travel in longitude to a location 180 degrees around the Earth to see the Sun 1/2 way up the sky because in the Winter, the Sun is 48 degrees south of its summer location in the sky. It's a little confusing, but if you use a globe of the Earth and orient it the right way, you can see how all this works out.

As for other effects, presumably the magnetic field of the Earth is generated by a dynamo effect that involves its rotation. If the Earth stopped rotating, it's magnetic field would no longer be regenerated and it would decay away to some low, residual value due to the very small component which is 'fossilized' in its iron-rich rocks. There would be no more 'northern lights' and the Van Allen radiation belts would probably vanish, as would our protection from cosmic rays and other high-energy particles. This is a significant biohazard.

You were saying?

[jay_a2j]

I was saying that you put limits on God...which isn't wise.



And why not mention that if the Earth was tilted on its axis a few degrees in any direction it would not be able to support life. The probability that a " Big Bang" could set this planet in such a way by mere chance is extreamly small. Hence further evidence of devine creation.

[vtmarik]

I was saying that you put limits on God...which isn't wise.

I put limits on God? Where do you get that from?

Must we start fighting again? We just got out of this battle!

Oh well, if we must, we must...

I never said that God didn't do something. Common sense and science did. If God had stopped the earth's rotation, all life would have been extinguished unless he also stopped the atmosphere's rotation and turned down the sun's radiation.

Since the Bible never says that He did those things, we can safely assume that He didn't.

So how am I putting limits on God?

[jay_a2j]

your saying that God cannot stop the Earths rotation without "serious consiquences (sp?) "

[jay_a2j]

He is God for vtmark's sake!

[vtmarik]

your saying that God cannot stop the Earths rotation without "serious consiquences (sp?) "

Yes, I am. However, that doesn't mean that God can't do it in the first place.

All I did was quote NASA's scientific explanation that if the Earth stopped rotating we'd all get scoured off the face of the planet by 1100 MPH winds.

He is God for vtmarik's sake!

If you're going to be childish about it, why don't you just quit talking?

[jay_a2j]

If you don't like me talking:


1. Stop comming into thuis thread


2. Stop talking to me


3. Turn off your monitor.

[Pilate]

If you don't like me talking:


1. Stop comming into thuis thread


2. Stop talking to me


3. Turn off your monitor.

So you are saying anyone who notices how ridiculous you are should just ignore you.

[vtmarik]

If you don't like me talking:

I didn't say that I didn't like you talking.

All I said was that if your gonna be childish and say things like "He's God for VTMarik's sake," then maybe you should take a break and/or a nap.

You aren't going to derail my argument by throwing a tantrum.

Now do you have a response?

So you are saying anyone who notices how ridiculous you are should just ignore you.

It's hard to ignore it though...

I see these things being said that aren't factually true and I must refute them, for the sake of the unlearned masses that can be swayed by such honey words.

*exhales* Ooooh, my blood sugar seems a tad low.

[jay_a2j]

lol WHAT does this mean?


Yes, I am. However, that doesn't mean that God can't do it in the first place.



If nothing is impossible for God (evidenced by scripture) raising the dead, walking on water how do YOU limit God in saying he cannot stop the rotation of the Earth?

[vtmarik]

lol WHAT does this mean?


If nothing is impossible for God (evidenced by scripture) raising the dead, walking on water how do YOU limit God in saying he cannot stop the rotation of the Earth?

It means that God can stop the rotation of the earth, He does have the power.

[/i]However[/i], if the Earth suddenly stopped rotating, the atmosphere would continue to spin according to the 1st law of motion "Objects at rest stay at rest and objects in motion stay in motion unless acted upon by an outside force." This spinning force of wind would lift everything off of the planet. Now if God stopped both the atmosphere and the planet itself, that would be a different story...

Joshua did not say that God stopped the atmosphere from spinning (since it is not part of the planet but is in fact gases trapped by Earth's gravitational pull). So, according to the Bible, he didn't do these things.

I never limited God, The Bible did.

If you want to have a true debate where we "drop our biases" as you asked us to do in your first post, then we can have that. However, since neither of us dropped our biases, we're done here.

[jay_a2j]

God can do all things....even stop the earth's rotation, atmosphere and on any given day my or your heartbeat.



Take God out of the BOX.

[Pilate]

God can do all things....even stop the earth's rotation, atmosphere and on any given day my or your heartbeat.



Take God out of the BOX.

If God can do all things, how come you are so against evolution?

biased hypocrite

[vtmarik]

God can do all things....even stop the earth's rotation, atmosphere and on any given day my or your heartbeat.



Take God out of the BOX.

I know He can.

I never said he couldn't.

I said that he didn't according to the passage from Joshua.

I never put God in the box my friend. And I have no intention of doing so.

To quote Jekyll and Hyde: "I leave pretention like that, sir, to you!"

Now, i'll drop my biases if you drop yours.

[morph]

jay, he hasnt limited god, he is going by what the scripture says, for one the bible is and can be interprated in many ways, but no matter how you interprate what the scripture says, it only says he/she/it (god) stopped earth, not the gasses, the atomsphere, granted they may not know about the atmosphere but i dont know about anyone else but i would mention that not even a cloud moved... if that had even been mentioned then i think no one would have a problem saying that in the scripture god indeed did stop EVERYTHING but as it only says the sun and the moon, we can only thing that either the sun goes around the earth, or that the earth goes around the sun (as we know it now) but it does not mention the atomsphere was stopped... sooo he has his arguement proven and you are throwing small eggs at a stone pillar that is falling very fast to sqash your arguement...

[dagreatbroomhead]

okay, well my view on the earth stopping thing is that the bible was written by humans through the hand of god, correct?(tell me if i am wrong) and humans did not know what or have a name for the atmosphere, so that is pretty much a mute argument that he didn't or couldn't stop the earth. a good argument would be that can god create a rock so big even he cannot lift it?

(i didn't really mean that last one serously, i just really want to know what you say)

[jay_a2j]

God can do all things....even stop the earth's rotation, atmosphere and on any given day my or your heartbeat.



Take God out of the BOX.

If God can do all things, how come you are so against evolution?

biased hypocrite

Please do not use words if you are unfamiliar with its definition.


Because Gods word contradicts evolution. See Genesis.

[jay_a2j]

jay, he hasnt limited god, he is going by what the scripture says, for one the bible is and can be interprated in many ways, but no matter how you interprate what the scripture says, it only says he/she/it (god) stopped earth, not the gasses, the atomsphere, granted they may not know about the atmosphere but i dont know about anyone else but i would mention that not even a cloud moved... if that had even been mentioned then i think no one would have a problem saying that in the scripture god indeed did stop EVERYTHING but as it only says the sun and the moon, we can only thing that either the sun goes around the earth, or that the earth goes around the sun (as we know it now) but it does not mention the atomsphere was stopped... sooo he has his arguement proven and you are throwing small eggs at a stone pillar that is falling very fast to sqash your arguement...

If Johua saw the sun "stand still" for "about a day" this is what he saw. marik is IMPYING that scripture contadicts the orbit of the earth AROUND the sun. It does not. He is taking what he does not understand and incerts his own oppinion of "what must have happened". If God wanted to stop the rotation of the earth and not effect life on earth HE could do so. Marik claims that if God stopped the rotation of the earth God would be powerless to prevent destruction upon the earth. THUS he is limiting Gods power.

[jay_a2j]

okay, well my view on the earth stopping thing is that the bible was written by humans through the hand of god, correct?(tell me if i am wrong) and humans did not know what or have a name for the atmosphere, so that is pretty much a mute argument that he didn't or couldn't stop the earth. a good argument would be that can god create a rock so big even he cannot lift it?

(i didn't really mean that last one serously, i just really want to know what you say)

see previous post....its been asked already.

[dagreatbroomhead]

damn it someone asked it already? give me a guess, how far back was it?