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Re: Overturning ObamaCare: Nov 2nd

Postby saxitoxin on Thu Nov 04, 2010 2:48 pm

PLAYER57832 wrote:
jbrettlip wrote:I do know the law says the employer has to provide you with the paperwork. You are bitching about how they didn't. I advised that if it were ME, I would have done things very differently and my outcome would have been the continuation of my family's health insurance. Not crying about how evil the insurance industry is and how everyone is out to get me. You don't need a law degree for that, in fact you probably only need about half a brain.

Well, apparently you don't have half a brain, because you don't even get that you know nothing about my situation.... AND, you are just wrong on several points in your "analysis".

But, like millions of other robots, you won't find out the truth until you finally wind up having to use it , get laid off, etc.


look who just rolled outta bed

*glug glug*

Player - you calling others "robots" while you greedily defend the boss of the former Senator-from-Mastercard Biden, while you misquote Nader, and while you generally act like a state schill, is precious. Please continue. :P
Pack Rat wrote:if it quacks like a duck and walk like a duck, it's still fascism

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=241668&start=200#p5349880
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Re: Overturning ObamaCare: Nov 2nd

Postby Juan_Bottom on Thu Nov 04, 2010 2:53 pm

whoa whoa whoa
Is player supporting a new health care system for America, or is she defending Obamacare?
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Re: Overturning ObamaCare: Nov 2nd

Postby jbrettlip on Thu Nov 04, 2010 3:18 pm

Juan_Bottom wrote:whoa whoa whoa
Is player supporting a new health care system for America, or is she defending Obamacare?


whichever gives her more free shit.
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Re: Overturning ObamaCare: Nov 2nd

Postby PLAYER57832 on Thu Nov 04, 2010 8:01 pm

Juan_Bottom wrote:whoa whoa whoa
Is player supporting a new health care system for America, or is she defending Obamacare?

Both.

Healthcare reform did not go nearly far enough, but it was a start.

But truly, this has just descended into me falling to the bait of saxi and jet.
I ought to know better, but have been rather distracted.

The point was that I said we pay more for healthcare than any other country and 5-6 people instantly claimed I was an idiot who couldn't possibly know reality.

However, instead of addressing that, the insults began on new fronts.

I am going to delete my part in that garbage.
Last edited by PLAYER57832 on Fri Nov 05, 2010 10:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Overturning ObamaCare: Nov 2nd

Postby saxitoxin on Thu Nov 04, 2010 8:13 pm

PLAYER57832 wrote:5-6 people instantly claimed I was an idiot who couldn't possibly know reality.


*yawn*

PLAYER57832 wrote:if you think I WASN'T on the phone, etc you are an idiot
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=93718&p=2854242&hilit=PLAYER57832+idiot#p2854242

Too bad such a good painter has to be an idiot
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=129719&p=2850555&hilit=PLAYER57832+idiot#p2850555

only an idiot or someone with a firm agenda would believe hat
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=126445&p=2782197&hilit=PLAYER57832+idiot#p2782197

this guys an idiot
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=126994&p=2798470&hilit=PLAYER57832+idiot#p2798470

No, my claim that she is an idiot is based on multiple idiotic comments she has made.
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=127081&p=2797171&hilit=PLAYER57832+idiot#p2797171

he is some kind of idiot
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=126445&p=2782197&hilit=PLAYER57832+idiot#p2782197
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viewtopic.php?f=8&t=241668&start=200#p5349880
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Re: Overturning ObamaCare: Nov 2nd

Postby PLAYER57832 on Thu Nov 04, 2010 8:16 pm

.....and you feel this is related to the healthcare bill? Explains a lot.
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Re: Overturning ObamaCare: Nov 2nd

Postby saxitoxin on Thu Nov 04, 2010 8:19 pm

PLAYER57832 wrote:.....and you feel this is related to the healthcare bill? Explains a lot.


You seem upset.
Pack Rat wrote:if it quacks like a duck and walk like a duck, it's still fascism

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Re: Overturning ObamaCare: Nov 2nd

Postby jj3044 on Thu Nov 04, 2010 8:54 pm

I normally don't troll through the forums so I missed this months ago...and as such didn't read through the 120+ page thread... but the CEO of my company recently visited Cuba to witness their health care system firsthand. All of you may find his article interesting...
http://www.hwinstitute.com/a-peek-behind-the-cuban-healthcare-curtain-part-3
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Re: Overturning ObamaCare: Nov 2nd

Postby PLAYER57832 on Fri Nov 05, 2010 10:01 am

thegreekdog wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:I FIRMLY disagree, beginning with the fact that the original so-called "Obama" plan was very much mirrored after the previous Republican plan, but this time around they simply walked off saying "no.. its a stupid Democratic idea".


First, that's not what really happened. I watched the Great Healthcare Debate and I closely followed what happened after that historic debate (which, really, there needs to be more of). What happened was that the Democrats ignored all of the Republican ideas so that when the bill went to a vote, we got "The Republicans are the party of no." We've argued this incessantly for a while, and you continue to maintain that the Republican response was "No, it was a stupid Democratic idea," rather than admitting that the Democrats said, "The Republicans can't do anything because we're in power so let's ignore them." And the latter is really what happened.

You refer to just this most recent run. I am referring to the last time healthcare was taken up, with Clinton. The plan Obama FIRST presented was very similar to what Republicans put forward then.

PLAYER57832 wrote:I will say that I find it strange that someone as intelligent as you would buy into this idea that returning to the party that has pretty much had full control, who has made the most critical changes in history in a negative way, should somehow be considered the "light at the end of the tunnel".


thegreekdog wrote: I would like to see a reduction in prices overall and that means insurance companies need to be held accountable.
Yes, but how? Every time this is attempted, the healthcare insurance industry lobbies heavily, places all sorts of adds about our system "turning socialist" and brings up all sorts of horrible consequences. (not the healthcare industry, but the healthcare insurance industry.. big difference!) That was the point of my 2 statistics posts. I don't want to see us go with a UK or Canadien type system. Even so, those systems are, by objective analysis, both cheaper and better overall than ours. The Canadien system is bad in that there is no private enterprise allowed at all. I am absolutely NOT in favor of that. I am, however, saying that I would rather have a system where everybody gets decent care, even if some may not get he #1 care in the world, than a system where a very few get the best care available and far too many get absolutely nothing.

thegreekdog wrote: I think the Republican plan will do this better than the Democratic plan. Consider that most employers are raising the employee contributions to health insurance subsequent to the passage of the Democratic plan. That, in and of itself, is worth noting - the insurance companies are benefitting from the Democratic plan and now people are going to have to pay more for health insurance than they did before the plan. There's something wrong with that.

Except, this was happening anyway. The REASON healthcare has increased so much is a combination of heavy paperwork, directly due to insurance company demands and the fact that we just plain expect so much more now.

20 years ago, most doctors had maybe 1 nurse for one or a few doctors. Now, the average office has 8 people just to file insurance claims! The insurance payment policies are so complicated even the most diligent office has to submit claims 2-3 times just to get paid. AND, many times if charges are significant, it takes the patient going in and fighting before anything happens. This is when everything is "straightforward". If there is any chance at all that the insurance company will find a reason not to pay... you can wait months or years.

Try to get "pre-approval" for many conditions (cancer, in particular, but also other issues) and you wind up waiting 6 months now to go to one of the "approved centers". You can go elsewhere, IF you are willing to pay on your own, but the insurance company doesn't have to pay for any reccommended treatment at all.

Obama fixed 3 big loopholes.
1. kids with pre-existing conditions cannot be denied coverage
2. Insurance companies cannot have "life time limits" (this was the scam whereby you might pay 20 years, get a serious illness and suddenly no longer be eligible for anything but taxpayer Medicaid, etc.).
3. allow young adults to be covered under their parent's plans. Since even kids not still in college typically don't get insurance right away, this is a big issue for many parents.

See, here is the basic problem with much of this debate.
A lot of people claim to dislike the bill, BUT if you ask about each and every individual provision... they want to keep them. This campaign, more than any other, has been fought by the right wing, Republicans and insurance companies spreading false information.

I am not mad because we are temporarily out of insurance. I am angry because so many people think my situation is unusual AND utterly ignore the fact that this harms them actually more than it harms me... yet, they still want to crow about how "smart" they are.

And.. per the rest. I do thank you for your advice. There are some details I cannot get into, but I have talked to some attorneys. (occasionally, I can get free advise on important stuff, thanks to my husband's being a firefighter for so many years. We have to be careful. It is an "emergency only" option.. and just advice. Should we actually have to go to court, etc, we would, of course have to pay like anyone else).
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Re: Overturning ObamaCare: Nov 2nd

Postby PLAYER57832 on Fri Nov 05, 2010 10:07 am

jbrettlip wrote:
player57832 wrote:[Don't like that source? Try these:

A nice VISUAL chart here:
http://www.visualeconomics.com/healthca ... 010-03-01/

Here, from 2006:
(Reuters) - The United States spends more on healthcare than any other country in the world but has higher rates of infant mortality, diabetes and other ills than many other developed countries.

Here is a comparison of the United States' healthcare costs versus those of selected other countries in 2006:
UNITED STATES: 15.9 pct of GDP, $6,657 per capita

Link: http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE5504Z320090601

Here, from 2003 (and earlier years .. comprehensive Charts):
posting.php?mode=quote&f=8&p=2853294
(tried to paste charts, but could not)


OR, try your own search, just input "world per capita healthcare costs"

So, STILL trying to claim we pay so much less than everyone else?


Player, when you have a degree in statistics and medicine, and pay for health care then you can talk.

Hmm.. apparently you are under the impression I created those charts, instead of just referencing them.

No, you give me too much credit there. I only found the data.
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Re: Overturning ObamaCare: Nov 2nd

Postby Night Strike on Fri Nov 05, 2010 12:04 pm

jj3044 wrote:I normally don't troll through the forums so I missed this months ago...and as such didn't read through the 120+ page thread... but the CEO of my company recently visited Cuba to witness their health care system firsthand. All of you may find his article interesting...
http://www.hwinstitute.com/a-peek-behind-the-cuban-healthcare-curtain-part-3


Did he attend any hospital that was not approved by the government to be viewed?
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Re: Overturning ObamaCare: Nov 2nd

Postby jay_a2j on Fri Nov 05, 2010 1:46 pm

Dear Mr. President, We finally figured out how to get that car you keep talking about out of the ditch. It appears it was stuck in "D," so we threw it into "R." - Sincerely, America



;)
THE DEBATE IS OVER...
PLAYER57832 wrote:Too many of those who claim they don't believe global warming are really "end-timer" Christians.

JESUS SAVES!!!
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Re: Overturning ObamaCare: Nov 2nd

Postby Timminz on Fri Nov 05, 2010 2:29 pm

jay_a2j wrote:Dear Mr. President, We finally figured out how to get that car you keep talking about out of the ditch. It appears it was stuck in "D," so we threw it into "R." - Sincerely, America



;)

:lol:

That's actually pretty good. Where'd you find it?
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Re: Overturning ObamaCare: Nov 2nd

Postby jay_a2j on Fri Nov 05, 2010 2:43 pm

Timminz wrote:
jay_a2j wrote:Dear Mr. President, We finally figured out how to get that car you keep talking about out of the ditch. It appears it was stuck in "D," so we threw it into "R." - Sincerely, America



;)

:lol:

That's actually pretty good. Where'd you find it?



Someone's Facebook status. So I made it my own. :D
THE DEBATE IS OVER...
PLAYER57832 wrote:Too many of those who claim they don't believe global warming are really "end-timer" Christians.

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Re: Overturning ObamaCare: Nov 2nd

Postby GreecePwns on Fri Nov 05, 2010 2:44 pm

Timminz wrote:
jay_a2j wrote:Dear Mr. President, We finally figured out how to get that car you keep talking about out of the ditch. It appears it was stuck in "D," so we threw it into "R." - Sincerely, America



;)

:lol:

That's actually pretty good. Where'd you find it?


"Well, I just realized, If you want to move the car forward, you put it in D. And if you want to move backward, you put it in R." -Obama
Chariot of Fire wrote:As for GreecePwns.....yeah, what? A massive debt. Get a job you slacker.

Viceroy wrote:[The Biblical creation story] was written in a time when there was no way to confirm this fact and is in fact a statement of the facts.
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Re: Overturning ObamaCare: Nov 2nd

Postby Juan_Bottom on Fri Nov 05, 2010 2:54 pm

He just now realized that?!?!
Where's his wife?
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Re: Overturning ObamaCare: Nov 2nd

Postby jj3044 on Fri Nov 05, 2010 4:25 pm

Night Strike wrote:
jj3044 wrote:I normally don't troll through the forums so I missed this months ago...and as such didn't read through the 120+ page thread... but the CEO of my company recently visited Cuba to witness their health care system firsthand. All of you may find his article interesting...
http://www.hwinstitute.com/a-peek-behind-the-cuban-healthcare-curtain-part-3


Did he attend any hospital that was not approved by the government to be viewed?


No... but he was able to speak candidly with many doctors/practitioners in their system. The reason of going to Cuba to witness their healthcare system was the fact that they have really great outcomes when taking into perspective the amount of resources they have available.

The point that I would like to make is that there are many variables in the system that are broken... from the delivery of healthcare to malpractice ... and everything in between. At least there is one focus in the legislation that I am sure both sides of the isle can agree on, and that is the emphasis on primary prevention. We have an extremely unhealthy country and without people taking control of their own health (with the assistance needed being available to them), any legislation won't go far enough to "fix" the problem. There are much larger social issues to be considered here as well.

I apologize if this has been said already in the previous 126 pages... as I mentioned before I didn't read through it all. :)
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Re: Overturning ObamaCare: Nov 2nd

Postby jay_a2j on Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:46 pm

GreecePwns wrote:
Timminz wrote:
jay_a2j wrote:Dear Mr. President, We finally figured out how to get that car you keep talking about out of the ditch. It appears it was stuck in "D," so we threw it into "R." - Sincerely, America



;)

:lol:

That's actually pretty good. Where'd you find it?


"Well, I just realized, If you want to move the car forward, you put it in D. And if you want to move backward, you put it in R." -Obama



Why is it people always think that going forward is always better than going back? It really depends on where you are going forward to. You assume that the further forward you go that things will automatically be better. 38 years of life have proven this to be a fallacy. A lot of things were better in the past.
THE DEBATE IS OVER...
PLAYER57832 wrote:Too many of those who claim they don't believe global warming are really "end-timer" Christians.

JESUS SAVES!!!
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Re: Overturning ObamaCare: Nov 2nd

Postby saxitoxin on Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:50 pm

GreecePwns wrote:"Well, I just realized, If you want to move the car forward, you put it in D." -Obama


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Pack Rat wrote:if it quacks like a duck and walk like a duck, it's still fascism

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=241668&start=200#p5349880
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Re: Overturning ObamaCare: Nov 2nd

Postby Juan_Bottom on Fri Nov 05, 2010 8:03 pm

saxitoxin wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:.....and you feel this is related to the healthcare bill? Explains a lot.


You seem upset.


It has been a shitty day.
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Re: Overturning ObamaCare: Nov 2nd

Postby Phatscotty on Fri Nov 05, 2010 11:51 pm

jay_a2j wrote:
GreecePwns wrote:
Timminz wrote:
jay_a2j wrote:Dear Mr. President, We finally figured out how to get that car you keep talking about out of the ditch. It appears it was stuck in "D," so we threw it into "R." - Sincerely, America



;)

:lol:

That's actually pretty good. Where'd you find it?


"Well, I just realized, If you want to move the car forward, you put it in D. And if you want to move backward, you put it in R." -Obama



Why is it people always think that going forward is always better than going back? It really depends on where you are going forward to. You assume that the further forward you go that things will automatically be better. 38 years of life have proven this to be a fallacy. A lot of things were better in the past.


I particularly miss the times when a man could support his entire family(even health care too!) and even build a savings, with just 1 job! and the mom could stay at home and bring children up properly.
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Re: Overturning ObamaCare: Nov 2nd

Postby nietzsche on Sat Nov 06, 2010 12:32 am

I just learned that government employees work 20 years and live 60 under the tax payers' money and have excellent medical attention. I just learned that there are many.
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Re: Overturning ObamaCare: Nov 2nd

Postby jay_a2j on Sat Nov 06, 2010 8:08 am

nietzsche wrote:I just learned that government employees work 20 years and live 60 under the tax payers' money and have excellent medical attention. I just learned that there are many.


Wow, government employees must have an extremely long life span!
THE DEBATE IS OVER...
PLAYER57832 wrote:Too many of those who claim they don't believe global warming are really "end-timer" Christians.

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Re: Overturning ObamaCare: Nov 2nd

Postby PLAYER57832 on Sat Nov 06, 2010 8:18 am

nietzsche wrote:I just learned that government employees work 20 years and live 60 under the tax payers' money and have excellent medical attention. I just learned that there are many.

The amount that these employees pay is very comparable to any large corporation, though they may get a few more insurance options (which makes sense, because the government is quite large). BUT, the US government gets to leave a lot more uninsured. Only PERMANENT Employees directly hired by the government, which includes many full-time employees. Corporations have to insure fulltime employees, but the US government does not. Contractors, contract employees, most temporary employees and most seasonal employees are excluded (titles and conditions get shifted around a lot)

And, yes, the numbers of permanent employees are certainly "many". We have quite a large country. It takes a lot of people to do all the jobs with which the US government is tasked.
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Re: Overturning ObamaCare: Nov 2nd

Postby Falkomagno on Sat Nov 06, 2010 12:15 pm

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