Juan and Insomnia Red

[Juan_Bottom]

OK, a couple of things to take away from this, first, Insomnia and Darwin's are both Chinese and they find it insensitive to say that Chinese people only work for 6 hours a day. If I had said 16 hours then things might have been ok....? Maybe they're not Chinese I dunno.
Actually I still don't get how what I said was racist. Feel free to weigh in there fora.
Work habits are cultural not racial. That makes you a racist for even implying so.

2nd, Insomnia wouldn't share this with me despite NUMEROUS attempts to see it. But Darwin sent it to theherkman who isn't even a MOD. I don't understand the inconsistency there one bit. Everything has to be all secretive unless theherkman asks for a copy....
And I'm not raggin' on the Herk, I respect the guy. I'm glad he got to see it and would have sent it to him myself if I had it. What I'm raggin' on the inconsistency. Insomnia won't let me see the evidence against me but Darwin will show anyone.

3rd, I didn't think having a fun conversation was considered trolling. I thought they were calling "my racist remarks" trolling because they never told me that I was trolling. But like I quoted Insomnia earlier, the definition of trolling 'ON THIS SITE' is different from the internationally recognized definition. I don't see that as trolling one bit. There was nothing malicious about it at all.

4th, and this is important, Darwin put more emphasis on what he perceived to be offensive racism than on trolling. In fact, he didn't even mention trolling. Then why didn't he explain to me what he was calling racism when I asked him? I clearly asked him what he meant.

[blakebowling]

IMO, people need to stop reading into what is said. A post is a post, a mod is a mod, a ban is a ban, and if you don't like any of these things, keep in mind the following:
#1. this is the internet people
#2. See #1
#3. This is a gaming website (as in, you should have something better to do than criticize the people that try to keep the forums civilized)
#4. This is an online community (Shocker, See #1), it's not a democracy, there is a place called suggestions where you can make your case if you wish for something to be changed, but otherwise the rules are as they are, and nothing good can come from complaining about them (instead, make a suggestion of how to improve).

EDIT: I changed the above after re-reading my post. The point I was trying to make is now stated more clearly above. I apologize if I gave the wrong impression.

With an attitude like this, it makes me wonder why you're a mod.

Just because my name is green, it doesn't mean that I have to hold a certain set of ideas. All it means is that I help this site in some way, and have been recognized and given tools to continue my service.
Nothing changes about the person sitting behind the desk when they receive their tools and badge. The only thing that changes is the outlook that a majority of the community has on Team CC.

If there is one thing I'd want a mod to have it's to care about the community that they serve. When you mods belittle the place that you serve saying it's "only a risk site" or it's "only the internet" you're showing you lack of care for the site which begs the question: Why are you modding?

I'm on the team because I have something to contribute to the community and the game. My point being, its a game, its an ONLINE community. It's not as if these things are happening in real life. I guess I just don't see why everyone is upset because the team is actually enforcing the rules. And while I may not (and I don't) agree with everyone on TeamCC, and I may not like them all (and I don't), I respect the moderators that enforce the rules equally on everyone, those that enforce the rules the way they are read, instead of breaking rules themselves or playing favorites. I'm not saying that anyone on TeamCC does this. I'm saying a lot of places on the internet have people like that, and IMO this is one of the best places to play online. That's why I work here.

[denominator]

If that's truly why Juan was banned, then I must admit I am disappointed in the moderation here. I honestly believed that there was something more to this that Juan had left out for some reason, and all would become clear when it was revealed.

However, the issue here, in my opinion, isn't that Juan was banned at all (IR and DB made a decision at the time that they thought was right), it's how it has been handled after. Juan was fully within his rights opening an e-ticket, but it defeats the purpose of having that option around if the moderators are simply going to ignore it until after the ban ends. His second method of disputing the ban, was to contact either of the moderators via PM. However, it's unacceptable that he be told his ban will simply be increased for pursuing the matter further when he is still yet to be told why he was banned in the first place. His final option was to bring it up publicly, where the answer has been even further disappointing. He's been threatened with further bans, told that he knows what he did, and belittled by many members of the moderating team.

All in all, I think ConquerClub really needs to revamp the banning and appeals process, with this case being a prime example.

[Juan_Bottom]

I just want to say this.
Blake you and I don't really bump into each other much in the forums. I know who you are, but I don't know you. But I don't have a problem with anything that you've ever said or done. And I feel great that you're posting in this thread. I disagree when anyone says "it's just a game site" or "it's just the forums/LC." If it weren't important to someone it wouldn't be here at all, or there wouldn't be any MODs holding the reigns. When I use the words "it's just the forums" I'm warning people not to take their job as a MOD too seriously, or another poster too seriously. But you can take the forums themselves as seriously as you imagination lets you. But anyway, glad you're here and in green.



& thanks Denom.

[Ace Rimmer]

Just a quick note about TeamCC. Since the ban was handled by InsomniaRed (dept head for chatters) the next step of escalation is to the admins, as they are her "boss". The admins are also the ones that handle etickets. Nobody else on TeamCC has the rights to adjust your ban, once something is done by a dept head it goes to the admins if there is a dispute.

[rdsrds2120]

HOLY LONG-TAILED CAT IN A ROOM FULL OF ROCKING CHAIRS!

This thread grew very quickly since my last visit to it - but let's clear something:

They may have not gotten to your e-ticket yet because there are PLENTY of them, or their discussing what to do with it.

I would also like to echo jakewilliams on that - it's best to alert the higher authority of the person/mod you're having a problem with rather than arguing with the moderator him/herself. I would also like to add that a major source of confusion here is what we define racism exactly as, which CC to date doesn't. My dictionary.com definition says:

–noun
1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

As far as I'm concerned, and with the information provided, what Juan did was NOT racist by that definition, so I wouldn't have personally banned him, but LC is all up to moderator discretion and each mod is different and all that jazz. This is, to me, an example of knowing the words but not hearing the music. The major definition discrepancies between moderator and user have caused troubles in the past and lead to inconsistencies. However, all is not lost. With this great realization we can strive for consistency in LC and the forums as the mods hold respective discussions. See you around,

-rd

edited into OP**

[denominator]

In response to jake and rds, when I refer to the mod-squad in this context, I am referring only to the members of the moderation team involved in this case, either via direct means by doing the banning or indirect means by posting in this thread.

So the members of Team CC that have commented in the thread, are, in my mind, as at fault as the moderators that banned Juan.

[theherkman]

–noun
1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

1. WTF? You are right, differences do not determine cultural achievement... That's why we all have the same culture and nobody in the whole world is different...
2. You're right, discrimination is bad. Like carding a young individual for buying cigarettes or not accepting someone who can't walk into the Marine Corp or choosing not to play a game with a cook...
3. I don't hate another race. I'm intolerant of Sudanese people. I believe they act with an air of religious and political superiority due to the issues in Northern/Southern Sudan.

So, in recap, I'm a racist.

[DirtyDishSoap]

I'd like to say I'm still banned from LC because of being falsely accused as being wicked...So yeah...Mods haven't changed since two-three years ago. Lol.

[Juan_Bottom]

They may have not gotten to your e-ticket yet because there are PLENTY of them, or their discussing what to do with it.

That kinda negates the idea of sending in a ticket to protest my banning doesn't it? Nothing about this feels fair. The only one I could take this to is Insomnia, and she has her own definitions for words. Don't ask what "Insomnia" means. The ticket system is broken on all accounts.

As far as I'm concerned, and with the information provided, what Juan did was NOT racist by that definition, so I wouldn't have personally banned him, but LC is all up to moderator discretion and each mod is different and all that jazz. This is, to me, an example of knowing the words but not hearing the music.

This is the first time I have ever seen a moderator publicly disagree with another Mod's decisions. This is brilliant and you have just made my day!
I HAVE A NEW FAVORITE MOD.

I'd like to say I'm still banned from LC because of being falsely accused as being wicked...So yeah...Mods haven't changed since two-three years ago. Lol.

Then we're trying to free you too.


Still no word on my ticket yet either.

See you around,

See you in live chat!

[Juan_Bottom]

Some of you may be interested in joining Wut. It's AoG's usergroup. The argument has kinda spilled into there.

[notyou2]

When I read the transcript I am really unsure what Juan was saying, but I took it to have something to do with timezones and sleep. I didn't find it racist at all.

[notyou2]

If I call a Frenchmen a Frenchie, is it racist?
If I call a Canadian a Canuck, is it racist?

The answer is NO in both cases.

[Timminz]

What if I call a Quebecois, a frog?

Or a Parisian, a cheese-eating surrender monkey?

[Haggis_McMutton]

What if I call a Quebecois, a frog?

Or a Parisian, a cheese-eating surrender monkey?

What if you call a cheese-eating surrender monkey a Parisian?

[notyou2]

sacre bleu..........

[Timminz]

What if I call a Quebecois, a frog?

Or a Parisian, a cheese-eating surrender monkey?

What if you call a cheese-eating surrender monkey a Parisian?

Oh shit! It's actually Parisien, in french. I hope that misspelling's not racist.

[Juan_Bottom]

It's not racist if there's no malice behind it. If you don't mean what you say. Certainly no one believes Sarah Silverman is a racist? What I said wasn't even about a race, at best you could say it was about a culture. And it didn't even make sense; you'd have to twist the meaning around to call it racism. And that's why I said that Insomnia was the racist here.

Anyway, some sauce from Wut.
Ok, so first Insomnia said that I was lying, and that what I put down from memory was only a quarter of what I had said that deserved a banning. Now that I posted the chat log that Darwins gave me, she's saying that she didn't save everything and that there is still more (even though that's what she turned in as evidence for my banning). excuses excuses... And as I predicted, she's backing away from calling me a racist and trying to say that I was trolling. Yet Darwins_Bane said in that PM (that you can all read) that it was racism that got me the ban.

WORST MOD EVER. She's also saying that admin did get my ticket but they're sitting on it.


Picture related, here's some other fascists that used secret evidence that didn't really exist to get what they wanted.

(they were called "the Gestapo" and they were all Nazis. That is where the term MODZI comes from.)

BTW I know a lot of you have been PMing back and forth, and we've all been talking about Insomnia and ArmyofGod in private forums. I've gotten a few emails too. If any of you would like to share that stuff here please do. If I can share any of it that you sent me let me know. Don't worry, I'll keep everything in strict confidence unless told otherwise.

[theherkman]

Well you can click the link in my sig for PMs between RDS and I. I have pms from Darwins Bane on your banning, and I also have a service ticket with KingA I will be posting soon.

[theherkman]

22:55:02 ‹jakewilliams› hi
18/11/2010 22:55:10 ‹theherkman› Hi
18/11/2010 22:55:19 * TheForgivenOne joins Social
18/11/2010 22:55:47 ‹theherkman› Jake, you got any speeders going?
18/11/2010 22:57:30 ‹InsomniaRed› theherkman, ask about games in Callouts, please.
18/11/2010 22:57:35 ‹InsomniaRed› TFO!
18/11/2010 22:57:42 ‹theherkman› Wasn't looking for a game.
18/11/2010 22:57:46 ‹theherkman› It was just a question.
18/11/2010 22:57:51 ‹TheForgivenOne› InsomniaRed
18/11/2010 22:58:04 ‹InsomniaRed› Well it's a question that belongs in Callouts or a PM
18/11/2010 22:59:01 ‹Risky_Stud› what if he was asking about land speeder's?
18/11/2010 22:59:08 ‹theherkman› No it isn't. I wasn't asking for a game.
18/11/2010 22:59:22 ‹theherkman› It belongs in Social because it is a social question.
18/11/2010 22:59:26 ‹TheForgivenOne›
18/11/2010 22:59:44 ‹TheForgivenOne› I though questions belonged in Help
18/11/2010 23:00:05 ‹Risky_Stud› is that a question TFO?
18/11/2010 23:00:16 ‹Risky_Stud› if it is?
18/11/2010 23:00:19 ‹TheForgivenOne› Does it appear to be?
18/11/2010 23:00:27 ‹theherkman› Does that mean that if I want to say, "Hi, how are you." I need to post that in help?
18/11/2010 23:00:36 ‹theherkman› Cause that's a question.
18/11/2010 23:00:52 ‹Risky_Stud› I'm not sure
18/11/2010 23:01:32 ‹InsomniaRed›
18/11/2010 23:01:43 ‹theherkman›
18/11/2010 23:02:08 ‹TheForgivenOne› Well I caused enough havoc for my short time here, so I shall be on my way
18/11/2010 23:02:25 ‹theherkman› Time to PARTY!
18/11/2010 23:02:29 ‹theherkman› :dance::dance::dance::dance:
18/11/2010 23:02:33 ‹theherkman› :-^:-^:-^
18/11/2010 23:02:55 ‹Risky_Stud› that's definetly not a question
18/11/2010 23:03:11 * TheForgivenOne quit
18/11/2010 23:03:14 ‹theherkman› Then it belongs here.
18/11/2010 23:03:15 ‹theherkman›
18/11/2010 23:04:05 ‹InsomniaRed› theherkman, please don't begin to spam either.
18/11/2010 23:04:05 ‹InsomniaRed› theherkman, please don't begin to spam either.
18/11/2010 23:04:22 ‹theherkman› I haven't/
18/11/2010 23:04:39 ‹theherkman› I said it was time to party and then started to dance and wistle.
18/11/2010 23:04:45 ‹theherkman› *Whistle.
18/11/2010 23:04:50 ‹theherkman› Is that spamming?
18/11/2010 23:04:52 ‹theherkman› Seriously?
18/11/2010 23:05:10 ‹InsomniaRed› I said don't begin to spam. It is the beginning of it, yes.
18/11/2010 23:05:35 ‹theherkman› I don't think so. I think I am feeling happy and am allowed to dance and whistle.:dance::-^:dance::-^

[DirtyDishSoap]

I don't remember the LC mods being so anal...

That and it's LC...Who cares? I mean, honestly, in some ways you got the annoying dudes who just continue spewing the same stuff over and over (That is spam) but if it's just a couple messages that contain a sentence in itself it's really not consider spam, cause I've had a nasty habit of doin that while I was there. I think people need to educate themselves a tad bit more and learn what's what...

That or get the stick out of your ass and be a bit more...Idk...Relaxed? Sure you're trusted with said job, but it's really not paying any bills unless it simply feeds your ego then in that case have a blast and be hated lol.

I think what I'm trying to say is...Get people who are actually mature about this sort of area...Stop giving kids these titles no matter how meager it seems...Give it to someone who probably has more free time on their hands and is a bit more experienced in the world around them. Clappers a fine example, never had a problem with her and what not, and good lord, how long as she been a mod? Close enough to when this site first started. I'm just throwing that out there that currently the mod selection skills suck some mean nuts.

[theherkman]

Exactly, I mean I don't have a problem with Saxlad. I think he's a great guy. Granted, I don't know much about him personally. But I do know that rdsrds2120 is a 16 year old little boy. I mean come on. Have you ever known a 16 year old kid to make good decisions or admit that they are wrong?

JM2C

[denominator]

Exactly, I mean I don't have a problem with Saxlad. I think he's a great guy. Granted, I don't know much about him personally. But I do know that rdsrds2120 is a 16 year old little boy. I mean come on. Have you ever known a 16 year old kid to make good decisions or admit that they are wrong?

JM2C

In all fairness, you're now stereotyping. I have no doubt that there are 16 year old boys out there that can do a great job of moderating, or 20 year old girls. But to discriminate against them being moderators just on their age and sex is actually worse than what Juan got banned for.

However, I still think all moderators should be judged on their abilities, and should or shouldn't be selected based on that more than the age/sex demographic that they fit into.

[theherkman]

Exactly, I mean I don't have a problem with Saxlad. I think he's a great guy. Granted, I don't know much about him personally. But I do know that rdsrds2120 is a 16 year old little boy. I mean come on. Have you ever known a 16 year old kid to make good decisions or admit that they are wrong?

JM2C

In all fairness, you're now stereotyping. I have no doubt that there are 16 year old boys out there that can do a great job of moderating, or 20 year old girls. But to discriminate against them being moderators just on their age and sex is actually worse than what Juan got banned for.

However, I still think all moderators should be judged on their abilities, and should or shouldn't be selected based on that more than the age/sex demographic that they fit into.

You're right, it is sterotyping. Now, have you known a 16 year old male to make it a habit to admit they are wrong or not want control/power over others? If so, is this common? Thus the reason for the sterotype. Like most democrats spending more than most republicans. Or most republicans lowering taxes or allowing tax breaks. Sterotypes can be true. Can they not?

[ViperOverLord]

22:55:02 ‹jakewilliams› hi
18/11/2010 22:55:10 ‹theherkman› Hi
18/11/2010 22:55:19 * TheForgivenOne joins Social
18/11/2010 22:55:47 ‹theherkman› Jake, you got any speeders going?
18/11/2010 22:57:30 ‹InsomniaRed› theherkman, ask about games in Callouts, please.
18/11/2010 22:57:35 ‹InsomniaRed› TFO!
18/11/2010 22:57:42 ‹theherkman› Wasn't looking for a game.
18/11/2010 22:57:46 ‹theherkman› It was just a question.
18/11/2010 22:57:51 ‹TheForgivenOne› InsomniaRed
18/11/2010 22:58:04 ‹InsomniaRed› Well it's a question that belongs in Callouts or a PM
18/11/2010 22:59:01 ‹Risky_Stud› what if he was asking about land speeder's?
18/11/2010 22:59:08 ‹theherkman› No it isn't. I wasn't asking for a game.
18/11/2010 22:59:22 ‹theherkman› It belongs in Social because it is a social question.
18/11/2010 22:59:26 ‹TheForgivenOne›
18/11/2010 22:59:44 ‹TheForgivenOne› I though questions belonged in Help
18/11/2010 23:00:05 ‹Risky_Stud› is that a question TFO?
18/11/2010 23:00:16 ‹Risky_Stud› if it is?
18/11/2010 23:00:19 ‹TheForgivenOne› Does it appear to be?
18/11/2010 23:00:27 ‹theherkman› Does that mean that if I want to say, "Hi, how are you." I need to post that in help?
18/11/2010 23:00:36 ‹theherkman› Cause that's a question.
18/11/2010 23:00:52 ‹Risky_Stud› I'm not sure
18/11/2010 23:01:32 ‹InsomniaRed›
18/11/2010 23:01:43 ‹theherkman›
18/11/2010 23:02:08 ‹TheForgivenOne› Well I caused enough havoc for my short time here, so I shall be on my way
18/11/2010 23:02:25 ‹theherkman› Time to PARTY!
18/11/2010 23:02:29 ‹theherkman› :dance::dance::dance::dance:
18/11/2010 23:02:33 ‹theherkman› :-^:-^:-^
18/11/2010 23:02:55 ‹Risky_Stud› that's definetly not a question
18/11/2010 23:03:11 * TheForgivenOne quit
18/11/2010 23:03:14 ‹theherkman› Then it belongs here.
18/11/2010 23:03:15 ‹theherkman›
18/11/2010 23:04:05 ‹InsomniaRed› theherkman, please don't begin to spam either.
18/11/2010 23:04:05 ‹InsomniaRed› theherkman, please don't begin to spam either.
18/11/2010 23:04:22 ‹theherkman› I haven't/
18/11/2010 23:04:39 ‹theherkman› I said it was time to party and then started to dance and wistle.
18/11/2010 23:04:45 ‹theherkman› *Whistle.
18/11/2010 23:04:50 ‹theherkman› Is that spamming?
18/11/2010 23:04:52 ‹theherkman› Seriously?
18/11/2010 23:05:10 ‹InsomniaRed› I said don't begin to spam. It is the beginning of it, yes.
18/11/2010 23:05:35 ‹theherkman› I don't think so. I think I am feeling happy and am allowed to dance and whistle.:dance::-^:dance::-^

Hmmm. If you replace the 'spam' with 'be annoying' then I guess I can see her point.