ObamaCare - exchanges ,report your states options!

[thegreekdog]

A couple of clarifications:

- Take a look at the religious affiliations of the members of Congress who voted for healthcare (and the president of the United States for that matter). A lot of Christians? Yes?

- Please name the last war started in the name of religion by Christians. Hint - It's not the War in Iraq.

[Juan_Bottom]

-Those who voted against are also Christian. With a devastatingly Christian-morality-voting constituency.

-Does anyone remember which American General said that God chose George Bush to bring Christianity to Iraq?

[thegreekdog]

-Those who voted against are also Christian. With a devastatingly Christian-morality-voting constituency.

-Does anyone remember which American General said that God chose George Bush to bring Christianity to Iraq?

- So? Your contention is that the Christians worked together to stop universal healthcare. I'm saying that Christians voted for Obama's healthcare plan, some Christians in Congress wanted universal healthcare, etc. I would have no problem if you said Christian Republicans, but just to say "Christians" implies that the people voting for healthcare were not Christians or that all Christians voted against healthcare. That's simply not the case.

- Christianity was already in Iraq prior to our invasion. But, no, I don't know the name of the American general who said that God chose George Bush to bring Christianity to Iraq, but it's probably in the book "Generals Say the Darndest Things" by Bill Cosby.

[Phatscotty]

Thank you for your epic troll. And if you looked at the massacres imparted in the last century in the name of atheism or secularization (WW2, USSR, China, NK), you would know that those numbers far outpace anything done in the past by Christianity.

There weren't any wars started in the name or Atheism or secularization, so yeah, you're being dumb. I could just see the Atheist General leading that charge. I don't know where this myth about Hitler being an Atheist comes from. I don't know where this myth that Nazi's, Communists, and Chinese people are all Atheists come's from either trying to spread Atheism comes from. I don't know why people don't check a book before believing these things... Secondly, when you look at these wars you'll notice that on both sides you had people charging to their deaths proudly because of their religion. No Atheist is going to die for a lack of belief.

yeah, and he also said something about teaching people how to fish, rather than just giving them fish.

and who is this christian you are tlaking about trying to prevent universal healthcare?

if you are sarcastically remarking upon a mockery, NM

No individual Christian stopped Universal Health care. They worked together. But we do have an uber-Christian in Nightstrike here who is arguing on behalf of the Million+ millionaires in America who control the wealth but don't make it.
Giving people free health care isn't comparable to teaching a man to fish. Teaching a man to fish would be akin to putting them to work so they can support themselves. But in this country, we will always have a poor and a middle class who wont have access to health care, but can still work. Even if they can work their way up to the top, which they can, there will always be the same amount of people on the bottom who can't afford health care. Unless you mean "teach a man to stitch."

Sorry people, but assuming how Jesus would vote or not vote for is probably the #1 problem I have with what people do with religion, and you don't have to be religious to violate WWJD either.

Good for philosophy, bad for politics.

[notyou2]

It was Christian organizations that started many of the wars that have killed massive amounts of people as well as fomented dissent with other relgious groups.

Fixed it for you Night Wipes.

Thank you for your epic troll. And if you looked at the massacres imparted in the last century in the name of atheism or secularization (WW2, USSR, China, NK), you would know that those numbers far outpace anything done in the past by Christianity. Either way, your trolling was completely off topic. At least my trolling effort had something to do with health care (hospitals are obviously important in that regard).

Fixed that one too.

[Juan_Bottom]

Sorry people, but assuming how Jesus would vote or not vote for is probably the #1 problem I have with what people do with religion, and you don't have to be religious to violate WWJD either.

Good for philosophy, bad for politics.

I disagree. This is a big art of what Theologists do. (not that I believe in Theology)
And with the Bible's strong "Good VS Evil" message, I think it's safe to assume that Jesus would vote on the side of good. Jesus kept company with the meek. Frankly, NS's earlier argument that if someone needs a $10 a month prescription or they'll be dead in 6 months and yet can't afford it, that you should let them die... is evil.

- So? Your contention is that the Christians worked together to stop universal healthcare. I'm saying that Christians voted for Obama's healthcare plan, some Christians in Congress wanted universal healthcare, etc. I would have no problem if you said Christian Republicans, but just to say "Christians" implies that the people voting for healthcare were not Christians or that all Christians voted against healthcare. That's simply not the case.

Now you're gonna have me arguing from a different place than I was originally. Christian groups fought against Universal health care, but Obama's plan wasn't about Universal Health Care. It was about bringing Health Care to everyone... but not as another Government service.

- Christianity was already in Iraq prior to our invasion. But, no, I don't know the name of the American general who said that God chose George Bush to bring Christianity to Iraq, but it's probably in the book "Generals Say the Darndest Things" by Bill Cosby.

I have a few quotes but they're buried in thick books that I have no intention of digging through. I bring my Newsweeks to work with me too and no one ever reads those either.

[Night Strike]

Sorry people, but assuming how Jesus would vote or not vote for is probably the #1 problem I have with what people do with religion, and you don't have to be religious to violate WWJD either.

Good for philosophy, bad for politics.

I disagree. This is a big art of what Theologists do. (not that I believe in Theology)
And with the Bible's strong "Good VS Evil" message, I think it's safe to assume that Jesus would vote on the side of good. Jesus kept company with the meek. Frankly, NS's earlier argument that if someone needs a $10 a month prescription or they'll be dead in 6 months and yet can't afford it, that you should let them die... is evil.

No, Jesus would vote that YOU (or any other individual person) would help out his neighbor in times of need. That's the whole reason Social Justice beliefs are just attempts to impart socialism by twisting Christianity into something it's not. The government has no part in providing money to citizens (except for members of the standing army and the courts); it's up to citizens and organizations to take care of their fellow men and women. What's evil is the government forcing citizens to pay the expenses of other citizens. If the government were not so massive, I could guarantee you that someone would pay the $10 a month for a prescription. Get government out of the way and you'll see the charity of the citizen rise up. That's why polls and studies continually show conservatives are the most charitable block of people.

[thegreekdog]

Now you're gonna have me arguing from a different place than I was originally. Christian groups fought against Universal health care, but Obama's plan wasn't about Universal Health Care. It was about bringing Health Care to everyone... but not as another Government service.

While there may be a correlation between Congress and Christianity and voting records, I certainly don't think Christianity had a bearing on whether or not someone voted for the healthcare bill or whether someone is in favor of universal healthcare. The vehicle for bringing healthcare to everyone - that's a different ball of wax (or whatever).

I have a few quotes but they're buried in thick books that I have no intention of digging through. I bring my Newsweeks to work with me too and no one ever reads those either.

I was not being sarcastic. I also heard a general say something that Bush was bringing Christianity to Iraq. My comment is more of whether that's a rational or reasonable assumption. Did the United States really go to war with Iraq to bring Christianity to the country? I don't find that reasonable.

I believe the Eighth or Ninth Crusade was the last one, sometime in the 13th century. That's about 800 years ago. There was the Thirty Years War (which was between Christians) which I think was sometime in the 1600s. Sorry, my history is rusty. I wouldn't call any of the modern wars "religious wars" per se.

[Night Strike]

Sorry people, but assuming how Jesus would vote or not vote for is probably the #1 problem I have with what people do with religion, and you don't have to be religious to violate WWJD either.

Good for philosophy, bad for politics.

I disagree. This is a big art of what Theologists do. (not that I believe in Theology)
And with the Bible's strong "Good VS Evil" message, I think it's safe to assume that Jesus would vote on the side of good. Jesus kept company with the meek. Frankly, NS's earlier argument that if someone needs a $10 a month prescription or they'll be dead in 6 months and yet can't afford it, that you should let them die... is evil.

No, Jesus would vote that YOU (or any other individual person) would help out his neighbor in times of need. That's the whole reason Social Justice beliefs are just attempts to impart socialism by twisting Christianity into something it's not. The government has no part in providing money to citizens (except for members of the standing army and the courts); it's up to citizens and organizations to take care of their fellow men and women. What's evil is the government forcing citizens to pay the expenses of other citizens. If the government were not so massive, I could guarantee you that someone would pay the $10 a month for a prescription. Get government out of the way and you'll see the charity of the citizen rise up. That's why polls and studies continually show conservatives are the most charitable block of people.

As an addendum, doesn't it make more sense for individuals to give the $10 directly to the fellow citizen instead of giving $12 to the government so they can give the $10 to the citizen and keep $2 for themselves?

[Juan_Bottom]

No, Jesus would vote that YOU (or any other individual person) would help out his neighbor in times of need.

That system clearly does not work. It's not working now. But Jesus can't cure everyone, therefore I say that he would support universal health Care as the obvious solution.

The government has no part in providing money to citizens (except for members of the standing army and the courts); it's up to citizens and organizations to take care of their fellow men and women.

Why? There's no rule that says that. Government's jobs are to take care of their citizens.

What's evil is the government forcing citizens to pay the expenses of other citizens.

Ok, once again, why is it evil?
Why isn't forcing citizens to pay for road they don't use, or 911 that they don't use, or bombers that they don't need, or fire protection that they don't use, or police protection they don't need, or medical research that they don't need - not evil?

Get government out of the way and you'll see the charity of the citizen rise up.

The government isn't getting out of the way. The companies that run everything medicine-related are making certain of that. Pretending like the government will back off and building a political strategy around that isn't realistic.

That's why polls and studies continually show conservatives are the most charitable block of people.

Well that's just great, but has no bearing on the conversation. Conservatives are just really two-faced on sometimes. Jesus said "love your neighbor" he didn't say "control your neighbor," and he didn't say "stand back and let your poorer neighbors die for want of medicine." The truth is people die daily here because they can't afford to get help. The system you like kills people. Because you want your money.

As an addendum, doesn't it make more sense for individuals to give the $10 directly to the fellow citizen instead of giving $12 to the government so they can give the $10 to the citizen and keep $2 for themselves?

That's not going to happen; you're not being realistic. So give them $12.
Besides, how mush do the insurance companies keep? Remember the famous Nixon tape where the man from Kaiser explains that they make their profits by denying services to people who desperately need them?

[Juan_Bottom]

While there may be a correlation between Congress and Christianity and voting records, I certainly don't think Christianity had a bearing on whether or not someone voted for the healthcare bill or whether someone is in favor of universal healthcare. The vehicle for bringing healthcare to everyone - that's a different ball of wax (or whatever).

Conservative Christians are just gullible people.

I was not being sarcastic. I also heard a general say something that Bush was bringing Christianity to Iraq. My comment is more of whether that's a rational or reasonable assumption. Did the United States really go to war with Iraq to bring Christianity to the country? I don't find that reasonable.

Again, you're going to have me arguing from a point of view I don't support. I didn't say Christians invaded Iraq for God, I just joined in the Mockery. My point was that Christians have no problem going to war because of their beliefs.They'll believe that they're on the right side of the fight because of their belief in God. Religion is part of the control here. No Atheist can ever claim the same things. Atheists are overwhelmingly against war. Plus, the army has a very healthy Christian number. Something like 93%, though a quick google finds nothing. So it seems to me, that Christians like to be soldiers.

"I don't wanna be a soldier"

[thegreekdog]

Conservative Christians are just gullible people.

Some are, some aren't. I would say that a preacher making millions off of his "flock" is not gullible. I would say that someone like Rush Limbaugh (I'm not sure if he's Christian, but he's conservative) is certainly not gullible. Jim Bob living in a trailer arguing for lower taxes on the rich? Probably gullible. No offense to Jims, Bobs, or trailerpark peoples.

Again, you're going to have me arguing from a point of view I don't support. I didn't say Christians invaded Iraq for God, I just joined in the Mockery. My point was that Christians have no problem going to war because of their beliefs.They'll believe that they're on the right side of the fight because of their belief in God. Religion is part of the control here. No Atheist can ever claim the same things. Atheists are overwhelmingly against war. Plus, the army has a very healthy Christian number. Something like 93%, though a quick google finds nothing. So it seems to me, that Christians like to be soldiers.

I have no idea about any of this from a "is it correct or not" perspective. I will say that the Catholic Church, which I believe is the largest Christian sect, does not support any war (which, admittedly, is a departure from history) and they tell us this every Sunday. I also think patriotism has more influence over people in the US than religion. I would venture to say soldiers think they are on the right side of the fight because they are from the US, rather than because they are Christian (or whatever religion they may be).

[DangerBoy]

LOL!

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/10/healt ... .html?_r=1

What a fantastic law

...........and now we go up to 222 waivers

Greatest law in history. So great that everyone wants an exemption

http://blogs.ajc.com/jamie-dupree-washi ... h-waivers/

[Phatscotty]

Sorry people, but assuming how Jesus would vote or not vote for is probably the #1 problem I have with what people do with religion, and you don't have to be religious to violate WWJD either.

Good for philosophy, bad for politics.

I disagree. This is a big art of what Theologists do. (not that I believe in Theology)
And with the Bible's strong "Good VS Evil" message, I think it's safe to assume that Jesus would vote on the side of good. Jesus kept company with the meek. Frankly, NS's earlier argument that if someone needs a $10 a month prescription or they'll be dead in 6 months and yet can't afford it, that you should let them die... is evil.


If it's such a big part, can you show me a few examples of how theologists, in the context you are using them, tell us how Jesus would vote?

So far, I can only cite you on how Jesus would not vote.

[Phatscotty]

LOL!

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/10/healt ... .html?_r=1

What a fantastic law

...........and now we go up to 222 waivers

Greatest law in history. So great that everyone wants an exemption

http://blogs.ajc.com/jamie-dupree-washi ... h-waivers/

Thugocracy. You cant get anything unless you know someone in the gov't...

I sometimes wonder if Obama, Pelosi, and REid, did not make the Health Care Reform superbad on purpose.... They are smart and corrupt enough to know that if they make a really bad law, they can gain a lot of money and power from the people who can afford to lobby and bribe for these waivers....

[Juan_Bottom]

If it's such a big part, can you show me a few examples of how theologists, in the context you are using them, tell us how Jesus would vote?

So far, I can only cite you on how Jesus would not vote.

http://www.amazon.com/Theology-Politics ... 0QS0E6Z49G

[Phatscotty]

If it's such a big part, can you show me a few examples of how theologists, in the context you are using them, tell us how Jesus would vote?

So far, I can only cite you on how Jesus would not vote.

http://www.amazon.com/Theology-Politics ... 0QS0E6Z49G

Is that the big part? really? The top 10 there average about 2.2 book reviews each. Could I not juts as easily show how 10 people in the entire world also wrote books about the exact opposite things? would that prove anything? of course it wouldn't, just like your example.

none if it changes the fact that it is the #1 problem I have with them, it just changes your assertion it is some kind of main-stream, dominating way of life or communication.

[Juan_Bottom]

Theology has always played a role in politics, and Theologists themselves have always tried to show how Jesus would vote or how the church should vote. For instance, Catholics are not allowed to vote for candidates who support Abortion. This isn't new news.

Religion has always played a major role in American politics. From JFK having to give a speech about his religion, to "The Godless Communist threat," to Evangelicals championing George W. Bush, to this:

A Gallup Poll released in 2007 indicated that 53% of Americans would refuse to vote for an atheist as president, up from 48% in 1987 and 1999.

It's nothing new.

[Phatscotty]

Theology has always played a role in politics, and Theologists themselves have always tried to show how Jesus would vote or how the church should vote. For instance, Catholics are not allowed to vote for candidates who support Abortion. This isn't new news.

Religion has always played a major role in American politics. From JFK having to give a speech about his religion, to "The Godless Communist threat," to Evangelicals championing George W. Bush, to this:

A Gallup Poll released in 2007 indicated that 53% of Americans would refuse to vote for an atheist as president, up from 48% in 1987 and 1999.

It's nothing new.

neither is the separation of church and state...

[Juan_Bottom]

So Churches can't officially endorse candidates. That's why the Catholics say "don't vote for the Homosexual or the Abortion guy. God wouldn't accept it." And the Evangelical churches say "George Bush is a man of God like you. He's been chosen by God."

[Phatscotty]

So Churches can't officially endorse candidates. That's why the Catholics say "don't vote for the Homosexual or the Abortion guy. God wouldn't accept it." And the Evangelical churches say "George Bush is a man of God like you. He's been chosen by God."

God says you are wrong about this.

[john9blue]

Oh you.

[Phatscotty]

So what's the deal so far? It looks like we are going to keep 2 parts of the health-care reform that will be tea-bagged.

I feel cozy, warm, and fuzzy about the pre-existing conditions part. What's the other part?

[BigBallinStalin]

You're the media man for ObamaCare. You tell us, Phatscotty.

[Phatscotty]

You're the media man for ObamaCare. You tell us, Phatscotty.

We aren't getting Obamacare anymore though, rendering me basically useless