Constitution Revolution: 2012

[Baron Von PWN]

Critics lashed out Wednesday at a proposal by U.S. Sen. Rand Paul to slash numerous federal programs, including food stamps, to save $500 billion in a single year.

"Some of the elements of the plan, which would remove the safety net that poor and vulnerable people need, we would find morally objectionable," said the Rev. Patrick Delahanty, executive director of the Catholic Conference of Kentucky.

Paul introduced legislation in the Senate on Tuesday that would slash $42 billion from the U.S. Department of Agriculture's food stamp program -- a 30 percent reduction from the current funding level. It also would eliminate numerous other programs, including the Corporation for Public Broadcasting, the Consumer Product Safety Commission and the National Endowment for the Arts.

Paul said the proposal, which also would cut $16 billion for the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, would roll back federal spending to 2008 levels and eliminate what he considers the most wasteful programs.

The Kentucky Republican said he hopes his proposal will spark a dialogue within the Senate about how to repair the nation's economy.

Right because there was a lack of discussion on the budget, it therefore necessitated he write a bill so idiotic people pay attention to the issue . Wasteful programs like ensuring the US doesn't break treaty obligation? Other countries who give a shit about them right!?

there are plenty of options on the table, and just because we get rid of a certain way of doing something does not mean that nothing will replace it. you are kind of jumping to conclusions. My eyes got opened by that article to though.

In the bill as writen no alternatives are offered (the bill is so bad it doesen`t even consider those problems). So no I`m not jumping to conclusions, that is what will happen if that bill were to pass. Sure an alternative could be found, that would require more bills, more government time and likely the creation of new spending. The fact of the matter is you can`t just attack something like the federal budget and not take into consideration the consequences of what you cut, and more importantly how to deal with those consequences.

Making bills that say "Cut a gagillion dollars! " and leave it at that. Do a great job of sucking tea party cock but are wastefull of the legislature`s time and would have disasterous consequences.

[Phatscotty]

It isn't that kind of bill. It's a proposal on cuts and immediately after the proposal it gets sent to various committees to be worked on, just like the Health Care Reform process went in Congress. Remember deem n pass?

It was my bad for sharing what turned out to be a hit piece. The author of that skipped reality on a few segments, relying on stoking emotions and fears. My bad

[Timminz]

Delusional

[Baron Von PWN]

It isn't that kind of bill. It's a proposal on cuts and immediately after the proposal it gets sent to various committees to be worked on, just like the Health Care Reform process went in Congress. Remember deem n pass?

It was my bad for sharing what turned out to be a hit piece. The author of that skipped reality on a few segments, relying on stoking emotions and fears. My bad

lol right a hit piece, because the bill has SOO MUCH going for it. Gems like,

Funds available to the Department of Commerce are reduced on a pro rata basis by the amount required to bring total reductions to 5,322 million

The budget for this department was 11499 million. So he is proposing, apparently seriously, to cut the department's budget nearly in half in one year. That is quite simply sheer idiocy.
Oh and he also calls for the complete de-funding of all departments of education. Surely there will be no negative consequences for American schools as a result of that!

Face it scotty, this is a worthless peice of legislation that will do nothing but waste your tax-dollars by getting in the way of serious work. It does make for some nice political grandstanding though.

[Phatscotty]

It isn't that kind of bill. It's a proposal on cuts and immediately after the proposal it gets sent to various committees to be worked on, just like the Health Care Reform process went in Congress. Remember deem n pass?

It was my bad for sharing what turned out to be a hit piece. The author of that skipped reality on a few segments, relying on stoking emotions and fears. My bad

lol right a hit piece, because the bill has SOO MUCH going for it. Gems like,

Funds available to the Department of Commerce are reduced on a pro rata basis by the amount required to bring total reductions to 5,322 million

The budget for this department was 11499 million. So he is proposing, apparently seriously, to cut the department's budget nearly in half in one year. That is quite simply sheer idiocy.
Oh and he also calls for the complete de-funding of all departments of education. Surely there will be no negative consequences for American schools as a result of that!

Face it scotty, this is a worthless peice of legislation that will do nothing but waste your tax-dollars by getting in the way of serious work. It does make for some nice political grandstanding though.

Which work is it getting in the way of? It's an in depth look at what would happen if, nothing more. But everything is still on the table.

[BigBallinStalin]

But changes like these must be done gradually...

Things go crazy if you just start chopping people's heads off. Gotta give them a haircut first, see how they like it, then

show

[Phatscotty]

But changes like these must be done gradually...

Things go crazy if you just start chopping people's heads off. Gotta give them a haircut first, see how they like it, then

show

It's a 10 year plan, isn't it?

Even though most of the things mentioned in the article might or might not start in 2011, they take time to phase out, and I think this rough draft provides the exoskeleton we need in order to start cutting.

[BigBallinStalin]

But changes like these must be done gradually...

Things go crazy if you just start chopping people's heads off. Gotta give them a haircut first, see how they like it, then

show

It's a 10 year plan, isn't it?

Even though most of the things mentioned in the article might or might not start in 2011, they take time to phase out, and I think this rough draft provides the exoskeleton we need in order to start cutting.

It can be viewed as that--sure.

[Baron Von PWN]

It's a 10 year plan, isn't it?

Even though most of the things mentioned in the article might or might not start in 2011, they take time to phase out, and I think this rough draft provides the exoskeleton we need in order to start cutting.

The plan is actualy for fiscal year 2011, so not a ten year plan. This plan is not an exoskeleton, if its the exoskeleton of the cuts there won`t be a budget when they are done. It`s more like bringing a woodchipper when you need hedge clippers.

Which work is it getting in the way of? It's an in depth look at what would happen if, nothing more. But everything is still on the table.

Anything with remotely any importance? For someone wanting more efficiency in government you`re certainly blasé about your representatives proposing bills that will go nowhere and will do nothing but take up time in the legislature(perhaps that`s the purpose render the legislature inefective with moronic bills, gov can`t get anything done, obama looks bad).

In depth? maybe if we were talking about a kiddy pool. His proposal doesn`t look at the consequences at all, or provide anything that looks remotely like specifics, just apparently random amounts to cut from various deptartments chosen due to how little he thinks the tea party likes them.

But everything is still on the table.

Dunno about you, but I tend to think offal is better kept in the toilet.

[Johnny Rockets]

Cutting Food Stamps?


I'm sorry, but the fastest way to spark civil unrest is to scare the poor with the fear of hunger.
Do they really want to start down this road? It ends eventually with some pretty brutal examples of the worst of crowd mentality.
Food riots in Egypt, Mexico, and other places have ignited over the rocketing price or food staples such as corn and rice in the past. Seriously, what the f*ck are they thinking?????


Johnny Rockets

[PLAYER57832]

Cutting Food Stamps?


I'm sorry, but the fastest way to spark civil unrest is to scare the poor with the fear of hunger.
Do they really want to start down this road? It ends eventually with some pretty brutal examples of the worst of crowd mentality.
Food riots in Egypt, Mexico, and other places have ignited over the rocketing price or food staples such as corn and rice in the past. Seriously, what the f*ck are they thinking?????


Johnny Rockets

Besides which, the funds that go into food stamps... and things like preschools, higher education, and other cost-beneficial programs (that is, cutting them will cost us even more in the future) won't give us much. PLUS, those programs are not what got us into this mess. It was irresponsible banking, corporate heads and the wars.

[Phatscotty]

Cutting Food Stamps?


I'm sorry, but the fastest way to spark civil unrest is to scare the poor with the fear of hunger.
Do they really want to start down this road? It ends eventually with some pretty brutal examples of the worst of crowd mentality.
Food riots in Egypt, Mexico, and other places have ignited over the rocketing price or food staples such as corn and rice in the past. Seriously, what the f*ck are they thinking?????


Johnny Rockets

Okay, but do we continue to take money out of the pockets of people who are working? People who already have a hard time putting food on the table? People who are in the streets already, but peacefully?



There is a line here somewhere, and we are going to find out where it is sooner than later.

[BigBallinStalin]

Cutting Food Stamps?


I'm sorry, but the fastest way to spark civil unrest is to scare the poor with the fear of hunger.
Do they really want to start down this road? It ends eventually with some pretty brutal examples of the worst of crowd mentality.
Food riots in Egypt, Mexico, and other places have ignited over the rocketing price or food staples such as corn and rice in the past. Seriously, what the f*ck are they thinking?????


Johnny Rockets

Besides which, the funds that go into food stamps... and things like preschools, higher education, and other cost-beneficial programs (that is, cutting them will cost us even more in the future) won't give us much. PLUS, those programs are not what got us into this mess. It was irresponsible banking, corporate heads and the wars.

Aside from the wars, do you feel that the government is not to blame for anything else?

[Phatscotty]

It's a 10 year plan, isn't it?

Even though most of the things mentioned in the article might or might not start in 2011, they take time to phase out, and I think this rough draft provides the exoskeleton we need in order to start cutting.

The plan is actualy for fiscal year 2011, so not a ten year plan. This plan is not an exoskeleton, if its the exoskeleton of the cuts there won`t be a budget when they are done. It`s more like bringing a woodchipper when you need hedge clippers.

Which work is it getting in the way of? It's an in depth look at what would happen if, nothing more. But everything is still on the table.

Anything with remotely any importance? For someone wanting more efficiency in government you`re certainly blasé about your representatives proposing bills that will go nowhere and will do nothing but take up time in the legislature(perhaps that`s the purpose render the legislature inefective with moronic bills, gov can`t get anything done, obama looks bad).

In depth? maybe if we were talking about a kiddy pool. His proposal doesn`t look at the consequences at all, or provide anything that looks remotely like specifics, just apparently random amounts to cut from various deptartments chosen due to how little he thinks the tea party likes them.

But everything is still on the table.

Dunno about you, but I tend to think offal is better kept in the toilet.

Yes sorry I mixed up the 1 year 500 billion dollar plan with the 10 year whatever trillion dollar plan. So many cut plans, easy to get lost. We should not get lost though.

I would not mind a "Jacksonian Era" The results are not beyond our control. I think if this plan were accepted only half of it would happen, with a lot getting caught up in court and overturned or whatnot. I am with his 82% cut at the department of education though, and only after it has been proven they are serious about dealing with the overall problem by acting upon other larger cuts from the Military and Welfare as we know it in 2011.

Going back to 2008 levels of spending, starting this year, is a good start indeed.

[PLAYER57832]

Cutting Food Stamps?


I'm sorry, but the fastest way to spark civil unrest is to scare the poor with the fear of hunger.
Do they really want to start down this road? It ends eventually with some pretty brutal examples of the worst of crowd mentality.
Food riots in Egypt, Mexico, and other places have ignited over the rocketing price or food staples such as corn and rice in the past. Seriously, what the f*ck are they thinking?????


Johnny Rockets

Okay, but do we continue to take money out of the pockets of people who are working? People who already have a hard time putting food on the table? People who are in the streets already, but peacefully?

Your first mistake is in thinking these are not the same people. Many of those on foodstamps, getting other kinds of assistance do work. Many work several jobs, well in excess of 40 hours, not counting commutes.

Your second mistake is in claiming this is about the average person not paying enough. We could triple the taxes of everyone making under 100K and still not put much of a dent in the deficite.

There is a line here somewhere, and we are going to find out where it is sooner than later.

Yes, its the line between the top 1% and the rest of the world. Every time that division gets too great, the result is revolution. We are quickly approaching that point.

[Phatscotty]

agree to disagree. The people who are paying the taxes, and not receiving benefits such as food stamps, are the ones who are pissed and have been in the streets the last couple years. Open your eyes

[Baron Von PWN]

Yes sorry I mixed up the 1 year 500 billion dollar plan with the 10 year whatever trillion dollar plan. So many cut plans, easy to get lost. We should not get lost though.

So there was no need to stimulate dialogue with an idiotic bill. It was simply an exercise in half witted tea party cock sucking.

I would not mind a "Jacksonian Era" The results are not beyond our control. I think if this plan were accepted only half of it would happen, with a lot getting caught up in court and overturned or whatnot. I am with his 82% cut at the department of education though, and only after it has been proven they are serious about dealing with the overall problem by acting upon other larger cuts from the Military and Welfare as we know it in 2011.

Actually he wanted a complete de-funding of the department of education. Have you even looked at the bill in question? there is a link to it in the article you posted. Any idea what that would do to the state of American schools? All you talk about is `cut, cut, cut` you never talk about tax reform or methods of increasing revenue, yet those will be necessary in order to defeat the deficit.

Going back to 2008 levels of spending, starting this year, is a good start indeed.

that`s a cut of 890 billion, done in one year it would be disastrous. If you mean starting a several year plan with the goal of going back to 2008 levels then yes that would be reasonable.

[Phatscotty]

Okay, here is a chart of tax dollar that is set aside for education over the last 30 years.



And, here is a chart of the results we get for our ever increasing investment.

(flip the chart upside down) The more money we invest in education (through the fed gov't) the worse results we get. We should stop immediately.

We pay more and more money, and get shittier and shittier results. THIS SYSTEM IS BROKEN, and it's costing us far more than the money we are flushing down the toilet for their education.

EXTRA CREDIT, can anyone figure out how America became #1 in education from 1900-1970, without increasing any education spending?

[BigBallinStalin]

Further privatization for education?

[Phatscotty]

Further privatization for education?

further choices. In a country where education is severely dominated by the public sector, I would answer yes, further "everything", namely homeschooling or schools runs by the parents. Private as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrgsWUrorFo

[Timminz]

I'm confused. How do both the unadjusted figures, and the constant 06-07 figures begin and end at the same spot? Wouldn't that mean that spending has maintain par with inflation, over the period as a whole?

[Phatscotty]

I'm confused. How do both the unadjusted figures, and the constant 06-07 figures begin and end at the same spot? Wouldn't that mean that spending has maintain par with inflation, over the period as a whole?

For the matter at hand, what is important is the vertical degree of the line.

On your point, I will say that over my life time, and at least the last 15 years, in my country and in my state, there have only been 2 things that rise in spending every single year, and in double digits. That is healthcare and education. Education spending, certainly in my state, increases about 13% a year on average. Nationally I know Obama has poured money into the DOE.* In order for that spending to maintain par with inflation, are you saying our inflation rate is 13%?

March 26, 2009

After less than three months, the Obama Administration has approved an unprecedented increase in federal spending for the Department of Education (DOE). But if history is any guide, these spending increases will have little if any positive effect on the quality of American education. In February, President Obama signed the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009, which included $98 billion in new spending programs administered by the Department of Education.[1] The Omnibus Appropriations Act of 2009, signed in March, included $66.5 billion for the DOE, a $4.5 billion increase over the last fiscal year.[2] Together, the stimulus and omnibus packages provide $101 billion to the DOE--a 163 percent increase.[3

[patches70]

I'm confused. How do both the unadjusted figures, and the constant 06-07 figures begin and end at the same spot? Wouldn't that mean that spending has maintain par with inflation, over the period as a whole?

Because the graph goes to 2007.

The solid line is the actual $'s spent, not accounting for inflation at all. The nominal amount spent.

The dotted line, is the equivalent in today's (or rather, 2007 dollars) dollars. Thus, by the end of the graph it is the same because in 2007 on the dotted line is actual 2007 dollars.

I would note to the detractors for the abolition of the Department of Education, the ED doesn't actually teach any students. Not a single one. The ED is just another layer of bureaucracy, another layer of cost. They just administer federal funds to educational programs and make runs for all public schools.

There are probably far better ways to distribute Federal Funds to the States than a massive 5,000+ manned department. That is all the ED does after all.

No one suggests not investing money into education, but how it is delivered and who makes the decisions for a particular school and how it is run is what is being questioned. Being as the Constitution does not mention anywhere in it that the Central Government has authority over Education, that authority is therefore left solely to the individual States.


To answer-

EXTRA CREDIT, can anyone figure out how America became #1 in education from 1900-1970, without increasing any education spending?

Maybe because prior to 1970, there was no cabinet level position in the Federal Government for Education? The Federal Government had almost no input at all into Education in the US until 1979 when they effectively took over and our public education became schools run by "The State". Since then, actual education has gone downhill while costs have skyrocketed.

The ED only tells everyone else what is to be taught, and what is not to be taught. They don't actually teach anyone.

Oh, and the Department of Education's abbreviation is "ED", not "DOE". DOE = Department of Energy, a separate department obviously. Just sayin'.

[Phatscotty]

House appropriations oversight season starts in earnest this week as subcommittees hold the first of “hundreds” of oversight hearings to trim funding for federal agencies and programs.

On Wednesday, two of the 12 appropriations subcommittees are set to review budget numbers with key officials from the Justice Department, Commerce Department, NASA and Securities and Exchange Commission.

The process begins

[PLAYER57832]

agree to disagree. The people who are paying the taxes, and not receiving benefits such as food stamps, are the ones who are pissed and have been in the streets the last couple years. Open your eyes

Classic elitist tactic... blame the lower classes. Meanwhile, ignore those folks over there buying multi-million dollar homes, etc.