[Split from Cutesy Club 2011]

[BigBallinStalin]

"From ashes to ashes and dust to dust" is referring to the cyclical nature of life and death. Recall how the elements more complex than Iron were formed by supernova and its scattering of all these more complex elements leading to more complex formations. Things didn't just pick up from this point of "Humans being made from clay" unless one rejects the known and factual history of the universe.

The parts that make up our bodies have at one time been part of stars and formed through the most violent explosions in the universe. It's amazing how destruction bring life and how life brings destruction.

It's just bits of matter interacting with other bits over billions of years, and here we are. We're just another expression of the universe. In essense, we're the universe made consciously aware, so we're just part of the universe reflecting on its self.

Its hard for me to imagine & comprehend a thousand years with my max life span of 100, yet u & ur evolution theorists claim to have comprehended & understood billions of years..sounds like bogus to me & nothing but a wildly imagined theory..

So your argument is this:

1. That sounds bogus.
2. Therefore it's wrong.

[Juan_Bottom]

God knows ur good & ur bad future..depending on what ur choices are in ur life. There are multiple predestines for each individual, not just one. Out of all ur predestinations, only one is the straight & narrow way to Heaven & to God.

But if that were true, then God isn't truly all-knowing.

Yes He is all-knowing of all ur consequences of ur choices u make..U just don't understand it, that's all..

WRONG! If he doesn't know what path we will each choose, then he isn't all knowing. If he does know what path we will each choose, then he made the Devil evil, and he made Eve steal the fruit. Then he punished you for it, so he's not all-loving. The choice is yours which contradiction to ignore.

Pretty obvious that he means that including all the people who worship other Gods, we outnumber you. And even in the Bible's history, there have been admissions of other God's. The Jews, specifically Isaiah II wanted the Jews to only pay attention to the Jewish God of War, Yahweh, in order to get his help to conquer their enemies. So he edited portions of what became the Bible with things like "you should have no God's before me." But in the Bible's history, these Gods are all equal to Yahweh. He was just the most demanding and violent.

This is bunch of bogus but at least u acknowledge Yahweh exists along with all the other gods who u also believe exist..So u just switched sides from being an atheist or agnostics to being a pagan or polygamist..

It always amazes me how much you crazy nutters study every line of your Bibles but never ever actually study it's history. Perhaps you have some other insight into Isaiah II that you would like to share?
And I didn't switch sides, I'm showing you how silly your belief in a fallible Bible is. The Bible itself was once an admission of the strength and existence of other Gods. Theologians are almost never historians.

though u might believe in polygamy as u accept no standards or morals from God..

No one does. 96% of the people in Prison in America are Christian, and only 1% are Atheists.
God ordered a Jew to be stoned to death in the Bible for working on the Sabbath. Do you still keep the Sabbath that holey? Harvard Biologist Hauser M.D. wrote a book called Moral Minds: How Nature Designed our Universal Sense of Right and Wrong. In it, he showed how even isolated tribes with little contact with the outside world share the same morals as you do. There's nothing supernatural here.

I agree, hence my Militarism, but it's nice to see someone and know exactly what they believe every step of the way. Easy to dismiss them then.

Its an irony u say its nice to see someone who knows exactly what they believe & then u say easy to dismiss such..lol..how do u dismiss or disregard somebody who knows what they are talking about..makes no sense what u said..but I do appreciate u recognizing my firmness in my belief..All glory to God really.. He helped me get transformed as I chose to of course.

You believe in a literal translation of the Bible. Just by that you will be wrong on too many things to count. Anyone who's not able to look at the Bible objectively is going to be dismissed. I myself once believed in a literal translation of the Bible, and looking back, it's embarrassing to admit.

Naw, I actually like this guy because his views are wholly separate from the majority of Christians. While they have been "modernized" for lack of a better term, he maintains a belief in the literal Bible. I find that refreshing.

Thanks for ur nice comment there towards me finally..But u r wrong about majority of Christians holding separate views than mine..they are just not as vocal as I am about them..thats all..

I'm the guy who started the Atheist's usergroup here. I'm also the only outspoken Atheist in a very conservative community. There's a very real and large number of Christians in this country who only go to Church or behave religiously out of loyalty, but not because they believe it. They'll admit it in private, but never in front of their friends. It's weird and it's scary.

Millions of years is hard to imagine let alone be comprehended..And yes the gorilla is our ancestor per evolution theory..Lemur & other forms depicted as our ancestors look exactly like apes, gorillas & monkeys..lol..and the manipulated fossil records u r talking about are the fossils of those animals, not our ancestors..what a joke of manipulation..who u guys kidding..LOL..The human bones & other fossils including the ones of the Dinosaurs were found at the same level of earth & yet one was categorized as a billion yrs old & the other a thousand years old..is that bunch or lies or what..the entire carbon dating theory is rigged & manipulated to suit their false theory of evolution..

I want you to think about what you are saying here for a second. You're saying that there is a global conspiracy by competing scientists, in different fields from Astronomy to Geology to falsify all data to lead people to believe in Evolution.

Even if bones are found in the same level of Earth (and I don't know what you're actually talking about) that doesn't make them the same age. And inch of soil in some places can be a hundred thousand years.

Gorilla's are not our ancestor, they're a cousin.

Carbon-14 dating is not our only system of dating. It's just the most famous. In fact, it's not even our only form of carbon dating. My favorite system is tree-ring dating for example.

Light years..come on..do u really think we will be able to travel at the speed of light one day..U must stop watching too much Star Trek..LOL...That theory of speed of light is true as God is light & its super fast, so also the Bible declares that but for us mortal selves to imagine & understand that is extremely hard..

There's no reason to think that we won't travel faster than the speed of light. So far, the idea of folding and warping space seems sound.

Ur proof of millions or billions of years is rigged with a lot of imagination & in a constant effort to disprove existence of God. Besides..what kinda of faith would one require to really believe that many years..people like u follow whatever the evolution theorists say blindly without questioning with reason or integrity..Charles Darwin himself who created that theory ran from Church in hatred towards God & wanted to disprove God..read his autobiography..besides..that theory is mortal in its nature since it came from mortal beings with very limited understanding..

What you said about Darwin is entirely false. He was afraid to publish his theory for fear of what it would do to the church. Whatever his personal beliefs, there was that layer of respect. You should show his memory the same respect in kind.

I don't understand how you can so bizarrely question everything about evolution, and yet you don't question your belief in the Bible at all.

God does answer prayers & even doctors get amazed with the healing that takes place among people of faith..that can't be explained by reasoning or by coincidence..

http://www.mowatresearch.co.uk/uploaded ... Benson.pdf
This is the PDF of a peer-reviewed study of the effects of praying for heart surgery patients. The results prove that prayer has no effect. UNLESS of course the patient knows that you're praying for them, then they could get "performance anxiety" and die. The Study was funded by the Templeton Foundation (a Christian organization) and conducted by Christians. For the low-cost of $2.4 million.

Many such miracles have taken place among us believers or Christians..to name a few..cancers disappearing overnight, declared dead people coming alive, lame walking, blind seeing, etc..

That's anecdotal at best. Why should I believe it was Yahweh and not Zeus? Or even some type of spontaneous happening or coincidence?

What if your god is imaginary? What then?

What if my God is not imaginary? What then for u?
I tell u the same I said before in my replies..If I am wrong, at least I lived a hopeful, content, peaceful & happy life but if I am right, all the rest we believe after life thanks to our Lord Jesus, like Heaven, etc is a MAJOR BONUS..
However, if u r wrong or right, ur life after death or death itself is a tragic dead-end or worse, hell..So if I were u, I would not rest until I know for sure that God doesn't exist..If so many people claim that there is a God, don't u think it needs to be looked into with more seriousness..or are u god urself that u know everything..come on..

I can see that you're a fan of Pascal's Wager. One thing I've learned is that it's hard to change people's interpretation of Pascal's Wager, but I can explain my view on it. So here goes:

1) I can go to church. I can worship your Go...d, but will any of that ever actually make me believe any of it? I can't just believe in something that I think is a lie. So PW's wager doesn't actually apply to me, it's written for people who are questioning their faith, not for people who don't share it. It's more of a tool to keep people from ever leaving church, not to get them to come to church.

2) Why does it make sense that the one thing that we have to do to make God happy with us is to believe in him? If God is a scientist, a scientist who created the cosmos, wouldn't he place a higher value on simply honestly seeking truth? And then why not give us more reasoning to believe in him that a simple fallible book? I don't see why it makes sense that God's most important rule is that we each individually believe in him. Especially when he gives us no evidence.

3) Isn't Pascal's Wager an act of cowardice? Isn't it cowardly to believe in God because you're afraid of going to Hell? Does God value cowardice?

4) Why would God give me the ability to reason and think for myself, and then punish me for doing it?

5) What if you're god doesn't exist, and instead it's a different God such as Behumacoyccol? All the major religions have some form of hell. Aren't you better off believing in all Gods to make sure that you don't go to Hell? Or what if the God is as Jealous as Yahweh? What if believing in your god is what will actually send you to hell. At this point is it safer to believe in no Gods? Can you ever be safe and sure?

REVERSE PASCAL
1) Since you wont know if there is a God, or which God does truly exist until you're dead, aren't you better off just living your life as completely as you can? If you only have one life why would you squander your time on a question that you can't even answer until you're dead?

Anyway that's my take on Pascal. I can see why people place so much importance on it because to most it seems like a no-brainer. But I hope that my reverse reasoning made you think for a second. It's really an agree to disagree argument though.


Also, what you said about looking into the existence of God,... people are. And that's why Atheism is growing so quickly in the West. There's little need for the educated to be superstitious anymore.

U chose to be an atheist, God didn't make u one..just like I chose to be believer. The option to be either or is there for both of us. And besides, a true atheist doesn't even have discussions on God cause he doesn't believe in a God..Why have discussions on something that doesn't exist according to u.. ..U r more of an agnostic or a God-hater than an atheist..Grow up & catch up with reality around u is my prayer to u..before its too late & u pass away from this life..

We don't start from a position where we don't believe in God. We weigh the evidence for the existence of a God and then make up our minds. We've all had discussions about God's existence on our path to making up our minds.

- U mean rigged evolutionary scientific methods..no proof of lab testing or reproducing it..No animal can be evolved into another in a lab of any scientific setting..

That's not true. We have forcibly changed single cell organisms in labs. The most famous was an experiment with E.Coli. You can also see an example of the evolutionary process in home pets. With Aquarium fish (some that have even been bred to glow in the dark), cats, and dogs. Chihuahua's are close cousins of the wolf. The fossil record is also heavy with organisms that we can see evolve over time. The horse for example, grew much larger than it's predecessor and replaced toes with hoves.

- DNA code of a monkey is different from that of a man..when they changed the chromosome in it to match human..it collapsed..read about it urself in genetic experiments of that..Fossils are found..dinosaurs existed, so did humans, apes & other animals before..most dinosaurs except a very few..Crocodiles, Alligators, lizards, komodo dragons either got extinct or killed by humans out of fear or for game..not millions or years ago but only thousands of years..Read Intelligent Design theory online & also Creationism or Creation theory..everything will be clear why Evolution is bogus & wrong..

No one really believes in Creationism. It's been proven wrong so many times most scholors wont even debate it or respond to any creationist accusations. Science is about learning facts and trying to figure out what they mean. Creationism is about starting with an idea and trying to force the facts to fit into it.

- There is evidence of God in urself..u have good & bad qualities..u have free will..and u have exactly 5 fingers..2 hands..1 head..etc..just like I do..if we are by chance..we should all look & evolve differently..No set structure in life should exist if its all by chance & everything evolved should be different shaped, since nature has no brain..God has intelligence since He is a creator of structure & beauty..

This doesn't even make sense. We are all different sizes shapes and colors. But thanks to our DNA, our bodies have a solid blueprint to follow.
We are all born with an appendix, which will randomly explode and kill people. That doesn't sound intelligent to me.

- So u r saying natural selection is a some sort of an intelligent entity to have know to structure it that particular way..So natural selection can be some sort of a creator god to u..LOL..

It is intelligent in it's own way. There's nothing random about the best and strongest surviving.

- Name one planet of such that can sustain life that we have discovered..we haven't..may be in movies..LOL..If u study Astronomy some time, u will find that no other planet has been discovered yet that can sustain life in real science..since no proof of such can be found with all our curiosity..LOL..

Well, with a bit of atmosphere or shelter people likely could live on Mars.* So that's one. Second, we've only been doing real science for 300 years. And that's because of Church and the Dark Ages holding mankind back. Second, we've only been discovering planets outside of our own solar system for a few years now. Science, and all true progress, takes a little time.

*NASA's models show that it would only take a couple hundred years to introduce an Earth-like atmosphere on mars. Likely, only a little over 100 years before you could go outside in plain clothes.

No, it's not refreshing because he very well might be a registered voter in the US and thus have influence on destinies of every single one of us. I mean, I live 8 thousand kilometers from Washington, and I still feel the consequences of USA having an religious nutjob for a president for 8 years. So, no, it's not refreshing at all.

At least in my opinion

Godless Heathen's [Social] [Recruitment] Thread

You're welcome to join up!

[BigBallinStalin]

My religion teacher was telling me about this time around 100AD, when a bunch of men from both Judaism and Christianity got together and started to filter out what stories they'd compile into the Torah and Bible respectively.

No wonder all that stuff about women was chopped out... I love how some women strictly follow a book made by men who scorned them and denied them any power and credit throughout the development of either religion.

[Juan_Bottom]

The Gospel of Thomas for example, is about Jesus life as a child. All of it was axed from the final Bible... why? Might have something to do with Jesus using his powers for evil. He transformed his friends into goats, lengthening wood magically for his father,* and turning mud into sparrows. And yet, you'd think that these would be important stories that a true follower of Christ would like to know.
And the really odd thing about Jesus lengthening wood for his father, is that the idea of his father even being a Carpenter is false. There was a mistranslation between the Greek word TEKTON and the Aramaic word NAGGER. Nagger simply means a learned man or craftsman. So it's another example of biblical forgery.

Some of the canon cut were the Gospels of Thomas, Peter, Mary Magdaline, Philip, Nicodemus, and Bartholomew.

[natty dread]

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Branches_o ... reationism

Branches of science you have to ignore to believe in YEC:

What do you need to ignore?

Let us consider the areas these wikis need to distort in order to shoehorn science into YEC. To be completely honest, you pretty much need to ignore the entire realm of science, but if "all of them" is too broad for you:
[edit] Physics

* Astronomy
o Astrophysics - specifically things such as the speed of light which generates the starlight problem. In order for the universe (YEC usually has the entire universe pop into existence, rather than just the planet) to be seen, either the speed of light has to be changing or light had to have started en route to Earth already. The former is not supported by modern science or any observational evidence, and even respectible theories regarding c-decay can't account for the massive change needed. The latter is a case of special pleading and can lead to Last Thursdayism.
* Cosmology
* General physics
o Mechanics - including Newtonian mechanics with gravity
o Nuclear physics - the decay rates of certain isotopes are known and are used in radiometric dating. YEC beliefs often require these well established rates to change by, for lack of a better term, magic.
o Fluid mechanics - this is pretty much incompatible with the idea of a global flood.

[edit] Chemistry

* Physical chemistry
o Reaction kinetics - the rate that amino acids undergo racimisation (conversion to an equal mix of stereoisomers) is a well known process that occurs at a specific rate. It can therefore be used as a dating method and has shown biological molecules to be far older than 6000 years.
o Thermodynamics
* Materials Science

[edit] Biology

* General biology
o Botany - particularly Dendrochronology, which is considered not just accurate give or take a few years, but accurate to the year, as each layer of a tree represents one year. By overlapping patterns, dendrochronology clearly goes back tens of thousands of years at least, long before most YEC proponents say the universe even existed.
o Immunology
o Morphology
o Pharmacology - disease causing bacteria and viruses mutate and become immune to our attempts at destroying or immunizing against them. This is one of the more powerful and very much real observations of evolution that supposedly doesn't happen in the YEC belief. See MRSA drug resistance.
o Zoology
* Molecular biology
o Genetics - the discovery of the genetic code was one of the biggest confirmations of evolution by natural selection and went a great way to explain the empirical observations such as Mendel's Laws. The supposed dichotomy between "macroevolution" and "microevolution" can only exist if there are two forms of DNA, one that mutates and another that is immune from mutation - otherwise there is no barrier between the two. This is not borne out in observations.
o Biochemistry

[edit] Technology

* Computer Science
o Cellular automata applications - self-reproducing molecules are cellular automata which combine themselves using a few simple rules to cause emergent properties. If cellular automata (which are Turing-complete) are ignored, the entire corpus of computability theory has to be ignored.

[edit] Planetary science

* Geology
o Geomorphology - uplift causes mountain ranges to form, a process that can be observed to occur at a fixed rate.
o Plate tectonics - that tectonic plates are known to move at a certain rate, postulating that some pieces of land were one connected at some point - something observed and confirmed in the fossil record.
o Petrology - rocks and crystal structures that take considerably longer than 6000 years to form.
o Stratigraphy - rock layering through sedimentation - although creationists bizarrely like to attribute this to the Global Flood, even though a single event wouldn't explain layering.
o Vulcanology
* Meteorology
* Palaeontology - self explanitory. There is a massive amount of evidence from palaeontology that only works and makes sense given a very, very old Earth.

See also:
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Evidence_a ... t_creation

[Juan_Bottom]

Oh wow, thanks Natty. I once made a list like that myself, but I had to actually look everything up, so my list wasn't quit as thorough. This is actually a big help to me.

And another thing, remember that all those scientists are really working together in some kind of Satanic worldwide conspiracy. I'll pray for the details of how that works later.

[natty dread]

And another thing, remember that all those scientists are really working together in some kind of Satanic worldwide conspiracy.

Wow, I always wanted to work in a satanic worldwide conspiracy. Do you know if they're hiring?

[krchada]

Hey, that's pretty cool how you presume to know anything at all about me or my life. My dad and his entire family are all hardcore Christian fundamentalists. And, my dad forced me to go to a crazy fundamentalist church when I was in my teens. So...YES, I DID, AND STILL DO, KNOW A GOOD NUMBER OF HARDCORE CHRISTIAN FUNDAMENTALISTS. Thanks for being presumptuous about something you have no idea about.
And also, I don't think you know a goddamned thing about sounding intelligent or civilized. You can't type a clear sentence to save your life. You sound like a 15 year old. Learn to type correctly, learn how to use the English language, learn how to type a clear and coherent sentence, and then, MAYBE, you will be qualified to judge another persons level of intelligence.
And yes, maybe my posts are rude and obnoxious. For that I apologize. BUT, you're the one on here trying to force your beliefs down our throats, and I, as well as many others, would consider that to be VERY rude and obnoxious.

I am sorry but I was using text or chat language but I will change it just for you. Oh how I wish that you learnt a thing or two from your dad or other Christians you knew! However, please excuse my assumptions about you & I admit I was wrong in that.

The word 'god-damned' shouldn't apply to your current set of beliefs since god or him damning is an unknown concept. Hope I am sounding at least civilized if not intelligent in this post.

Well if you admit yourself that some of your posts are rude and obnoxious, can you please change that in response to mine at least? Its a humble request of mine. And I do apologize if I came across as forcing my beliefs down your throats, I will try my best to mellow down a bit and I also ask you do the same please.

[krchada]

Well, too bad. If you find my avatar offensive, report it the mods so that nothing will happen. There is nothing against the rules in my pic, so they won't make change it. And what's so bad about it, it's a picture of a rather fat lady. Do you hate fat people the way that you hate homosexuals? Does God hate fat people as much as he hates homosexuals? It's pretty funny that the message from most Christians is that God loves all of his children, but the message from fundamentalists like yourself is that God hates homosexuals. So, which is it? Does God hate homos, or doesn't he?

I am not planning or thinking of reporting you to anybody. All these posts of mine are intended in love & friendliness. Sorry if I came across a bit sarcastic & rude. In fact, I have nothing against fat people since some of my closest friends are big and so is my wife even though she has been losing weight constantly. The picture is a little too obscene for my liking due to improper dress code for a public forum, not to enforce it on you but thats how I feel about it. Neither God according to my belief nor me hate homosexuals, we hate that sin of homosexuality. We think its a problem & all homosexuals need deliverance from that problem or sin unless of course they don't want it, no force again there. Just like all adulterers need deliverance from their problem or sin.

[krchada]

You think confirmation bias is a bogus theory? Seriously? Do you even know what it is? It's been observed and reported over and over again! I suppose you don't believe in the placebo effect either?

Confirmation bias (also called confirmatory bias or myside bias) is a tendency for people to favor information that confirms their preconceptions or hypotheses regardless of whether the information is true.

Based on that definition I gathered from Wikipedia, every single person alive or dead can be categorized to have that. Notice it says preconceptions & hypotheses and how do you know for sure that Evolution theorists don't have such in their belief or disbelief towards God?

[krchada]

U say thanks to Evolution like I say thanks to God..LOL..so Evolution must be some sort of a god to u..

It's now official. This is the most stupid thing anyone has ever posted on these forums or any others. Congratulations.

And who made u the judge of that? Were u everywhere & checked all forums out? Wow, I thought only God was omnipresent.
Seriously though, it d be real nice if u stop belittling what I say & also keep ur posts short & sweet. Thanks.

[dijxtra]

But the fact is I do know when it comes to God thanks to Him & His grace..

How do you know that you are not brainwashed? How do you know you are not just imagining?

Well, you don't, and you can't ever know.

One can't prove that there is or isn't a Great Deceiver, or Evil Genius/Demon.

Or, that there just isn't no God.

Since one can't prove this, then why do people still believe against all odds that their fairly complicated story is true? That is what bugs me. You cannot know that you are right, but nonetheless you will believe in an unlikely story written thousands of years ago by uneducated semitic nomads by which 70% of current population is doomed to eternal suffering. I just don't get it...

I never knew scientists were uneducated semitic nomads...

I liked how you presupposing my beliefs too!

I don't get it What scientist were uneducated semitic nomads?

[krchada]

Evolution also gave you the ability to laugh.
Care to present some rational arguments or more badly spelled ranting about your god?

These are your words again: Evolution also gave you the ability to laugh. You make it sound like Evolution is some sort of an intelligent entity or god, no wonder I said what I said in my past post. Badly spelled ranting, come on, I guess u have something against text or chat language too.

[natty dread]

Amino acid racemization

Amino acid racemization dating is a technique that is used to date fossilized objects up to several millions of years in age. The naturally occuring amino acid molecules usually possess a carbon centre with four different groups joining it; a hydrogen atom, the amino group, the acid group (hence the name of the class of molecule) and a side chain, which is what distinguishes amino acids. In three dimensional space, such a molecular topology can occupy one of two configurations; D (right), or L (left), which are refered to as stereoisomers and are essentially mirror images of each other. The ratio of these two isomers is initially unequal (with only one exception, naturally occurring amino acids used in polypeptide synthesis are in the L form) but over time this will decay to a more balanced state in a process called racemization, where the ratio between L and D stereoisomers will be equal. Measuring the degree of racemization and other known quantities can give you an estimated age of the sample. By measuring the racemization of the amino acid isoleucine, for example, objects can be dated up to several million years old.[2] While it is true that there can be great variability on the rate at which amino acids undergo racemization, the changes in humidity, temperature, and acidity required to make the oldest known samples conform to a young earth (under 6000 years) view are completely unreasonable.

How is this possible if the earth is only 6000 years old?

Geomagnetic reversals

A geomagnetic reversal is a change in the polarity of the Earth's magnetic field. The frequency at which these reversals occur varies greatly, but they usually happen once every 50,000 to 800,000 years, and generally take thousands of years.[12] This fact is obviously inconsistent with the young earth idea; around 171 reversals are geologically documented, which would make the earth at least several millions of years old.[4]

How is this possible if the earth is only 6000 years old?

Human Y-chromosomal ancestry

The Y-chromosome, unlike most DNA, is inherited only from the father, which means that all DNA on the human Y chromosome comes from a single person. This does not mean that there was only one person alive at that time, but that a single man's Y-chromosomal DNA has out-competed the other strains and is now - not taking into account smaller and less drastic mutations - the only one left. Because the only factor affecting the makeup of the DNA on the chromosome is mutation, measuring mutation rates and extrapolating them backwards can tell you when this man lived. Calculations by the geneticist Spencer Wells have shown that this man lived around 60,000 years ago.

How is this possible if man was created 6000 years ago?

Lack of DNA in fossils

Deoxyribonucleic acid (DNA), the universal carrier of genetic information, is present in all organisms while they are alive. When they die, their DNA begins to decay under the influence of hydrolysis and oxidation. The speed of this decay varies on a number of factors. Sometimes, the DNA will be gone within one century, and in other conditions, it will persist for as many as one million years. The average amount of time detectable DNA will persist though is somewhere in the middle; given physiological salt concentrations, neutral pH, and a temperature of 15 °C, it would take around 100,000 years for all the DNA in a sample to decay to undetectable levels.[20]

If fossils of the dinosaurs were less than 6,000 years old, detectable fragments of DNA should be present in a sizable percent of dinosaur fossils, especially in the Arctic and Antarctic regions where the decay of DNA can be slowed down 10-25 fold. A claim that soft tissues in a Tyrannosaurus fossil had been recovered in 2005[21] have since been shown to be mistaken,[22] supporting the idea that dinosaur fossils are extremely old.[23]

How is this possible if live dinosaurs existed any time during the last 6000 years?

Seriously though, it d be real nice if u stop belittling what I say

I'll stop belittling what you say when you stop saying completely nonsensical things.

Based on that definition I gathered from Wikipedia, every single person alive or dead can be categorized to have that. Notice it says preconceptions & hypotheses and how do you know for sure that Evolution theorists don't have such in their belief or disbelief towards God?

What Evolution theorists believe or disbelieve about god is irrelevant. Evolution theorists need only concern themselves with evolution theory, which does not say anything about the existence or nonexistence of god, it simply describes how organisms evolve.

[krchada]

See, here's the thing: a scientific theory isn't a matter of belief. A scientific theory is backed by evidence. It's not something that I decide to believe because I "hate christians" or "hate god" or "worship satan" or some such nonsense. I'm actually agnostic to the idea of god. I don't believe in the christian god, I don't believe in satan. I'm open to the idea that an entity that we could comprehend as a "god" could exist, but so far, no one has shown me proof of such, so I remain skeptic about it.

The point is, I don't accept a scientifical theory because of belief, and I don't make science into an object of worship.

I don't worship anything. If there is a god, I'm pretty sure it doesn't care a flying f*ck if I worship it or not. Why would an infinitely wise and benevolent being want it's ego stroked by human worship? It doesn't even make any sense. And if there is no god, then it makes even less sense to worship one.

I am glad u accepted you are an agnostic rather than an atheist. I was also the same roughly 9 years ago. If evidence is what you are looking for, I dare you to go to a spirit filled Church who believe in receiving the Holy Spirit & u might just receive your evidence there.

And not all scientific theories are backed by evidence of rigorous tests. Many people take what Science says as facts without questioning the integrity of the scientist or proof of such.

I don't think God cares if u worship Him as much as He cares if you accept & love Him back in return. That is the least we can do for all the blessings including life He gave us. Our worship to Him as Christians is out of gratitude & love more than out of fear or necessity. How can our God not be worshiped when He gave us everlasting life & love? His grace & mercy lasts forever. Praise & glory be to Him always. Amen.

[natty dread]

I am glad u accepted you are an agnostic rather than an atheist. I was also the same roughly 9 years ago. If evidence is what you are looking for, I dare you to go to a spirit filled Church who believe in receiving the Holy Spirit & u might just receive your evidence there.

I mean actual, real evidence.

I'm agnostic in the sense that I don't rule out the possibility that a god-type phenomenon could exist in this reality. I don't think it's very likely since I haven't seen any evidence supporting it, but you never know... Either way, until I see some evidence of the existence of god, I'm going to assume there is none and live my life accordingly.

And not all scientific theories are backed by evidence of rigorous tests. Many people take what Science says as facts without questioning the integrity of the scientist or proof of such.

Yes they are. Otherwise, they wouldn't be scientific theories. What "many people" think about what "science says" has absolutely no bearing on the validity of scientific theories.

You see, a "scientific theory" is not the same as the colloquial use of "theory". A scientific theory is more than just a hypothesis: it is something that describes an observed phenomenon. A scientific theory is always based on observation and evidence. Without those, it would only be a hypothesis. Furthermore, scientific theories are flexible - and this is what a lot of you YEC:s fail to understand: if flaws are found in them, most of the time they strengthen the theories instead of weakening them.

You see, when new evidence is found which points out a flaw in an existing theory, the theory is adjusted, and then the theory is again one step stronger. That's the difference between science and religion: religion tries to claim to be always right and doesn't allow itself to be questioned or disproved, while science in fact encourages this.

I don't think God cares if u worship Him as much as He cares if you accept & love Him back in return. That is the least we can do for all the blessings including life He gave us. Our worship to Him as Christians is out of gratitude & love more than out of fear or necessity. How can our God not be worshiped when He gave us everlasting life & love? His grace & mercy lasts forever. Praise & glory be to Him always. Amen.

Why does this god never perform any miracles that can't be explained by coincidence?

Why does this god never answer prayers in a way that can't be explained by coincidence?

If it is so important to believe in that god, why does that god not just show itself to everyone so we wouldn't have any doubt about it? Why doesn't it give us any evidence of itself? Seems like a real asshole of a god to create us just to throw us in hell for eternity.

[tkr4lf]

Hey, that's pretty cool how you presume to know anything at all about me or my life. My dad and his entire family are all hardcore Christian fundamentalists. And, my dad forced me to go to a crazy fundamentalist church when I was in my teens. So...YES, I DID, AND STILL DO, KNOW A GOOD NUMBER OF HARDCORE CHRISTIAN FUNDAMENTALISTS. Thanks for being presumptuous about something you have no idea about.
And also, I don't think you know a goddamned thing about sounding intelligent or civilized. You can't type a clear sentence to save your life. You sound like a 15 year old. Learn to type correctly, learn how to use the English language, learn how to type a clear and coherent sentence, and then, MAYBE, you will be qualified to judge another persons level of intelligence.
And yes, maybe my posts are rude and obnoxious. For that I apologize. BUT, you're the one on here trying to force your beliefs down our throats, and I, as well as many others, would consider that to be VERY rude and obnoxious.

I am sorry but I was using text or chat language but I will change it just for you. Oh how I wish that you learnt a thing or two from your dad or other Christians you knew! However, please excuse my assumptions about you & I admit I was wrong in that.

The word 'god-damned' shouldn't apply to your current set of beliefs since god or him damning is an unknown concept. Hope I am sounding at least civilized if not intelligent in this post.

Well if you admit yourself that some of your posts are rude and obnoxious, can you please change that in response to mine at least? Its a humble request of mine. And I do apologize if I came across as forcing my beliefs down your throats, I will try my best to mellow down a bit and I also ask you do the same please.

Agreed, I will mellow out if you will.

But man, just so you know, when I use words like "god-damned" or "god dammit", it's just a phrase. It's not me literally proclaiming that God should damn something. And on a related note, when atheists/agnostics discuss this topic with Christians, they have to act as if god is real, since that is what the argument is about. I hope I made that clear enough, not sure. I bring that up because multiple times I've seen you question people about that. It's something I've seen many Christians do when arguing/debating with an atheist/agnostic.

Also, honestly, I don't care how you type. I was just pissed off, so took it out on you. Do as you wish in regards to your typing/spelling, etc.

Now, as for learning things from my dad and other christians I knew. In my early teens, I was also a hardcore fundamentalist Christian. I was all gung-ho about God and Jesus and all that other stuff. Then I actually began to think about things. I also saw how all the supposed Christians acted. It was one way in church, and a completely different way in school/anywhere else outside of church. They cussed, they drank, they had sex, just like everybody else. There was no difference. For many, many Christians, in this country anyway, it is a show. It's just to keep up appearances. That, and my own conclusions I came to after thinking about things and reading the Bible and noticing it's inconsitencies, led me away from Christianity. My atheism/agnosticism was further reinforced when my dad, after me kindly telling him that I didn't believe in that stuff anymore and wanted nothing to do with it, forced me to go anyway. He continued to do his best to shove it down my throat. That is one of the reasons I get so mad when I see others doing this same thing. Besides, from everything I've ever heard in church, the best witnessing you can do is not with your words, it's with your actions and how you lead your life. When you call someone a homosexual pervert, and then proceed to tell them that they should "go find someone else you fagot (sic)", well that is just not a Christian thing to do at all. Christian means Christ-like. And the majority of the Christians I know, are nothing like Christ is said to have been.

[krchada]

Hey everyone,

I am back but not with the same attitude I had in some of my previous posts. Hope you all didn't miss me too much. I had stuff to do. As for replies to each individual post, I am sorry to say its almost impossible for me to do that with the time I have to spare. I do want to ask you all for your forgiveness if I was insensitive or rude towards any of your opinions or views in the past.

I figured out from this experience of mine that we are in two different worlds. I was once in the same path you guys were in just like some of you guys were in the path I am in now. So its kinda expected that we reacted to each other in a manner of shock & resentment. Whether I agree with them or not, I do appreciate some of your comments & insights, especially towards me. However my current path teaches me to love my neighbor unconditionally. I did not practice that in this forum which I repent & regret for. They say 1st impression is the best impression, however I failed to keep that with you guys. So my humble request for you guys is to please look past those posts off mine & start looking at my posts from a fresh perspective. I promise to be kind, gentle & loving, yet honest in my posts from here on.

From my experience & rewards in my current path or life, I believe & know for sure my God, Yahweh our Salvation (Yeshuah) loves me a lot. He has never let me down & there was not one unanswered prayer. Also, He is closer than a friend to me always, especially in times of need, trouble, anxiety, pain, etc. I find peace in Him & always enjoy His presence around me. There is a constant interaction with Him, within my heart (mind) all the time anytime, not just in Church or a place of worship. He transformed me from a heavy social drinker to a non-alcoholic drinker, a frequent curse word user to a rare temper loser, a habitual liar to a truthful saint, etc..overnight, right on the day when I accepted Him, repented for my sins & received His Holy Spirit. How can I help but believe & trust in such a wonderful God!

I am sorry that most of you all didn't either have such an experience or encounter with God at all or were disappointed half way through living for Him due to some reason or another. I can't help in changing that in anyway, either by words or by arguments, especially heated ones. But what I can do is pray for each & everyone of you in this forum, not to influence you all in anyways but just to show my care. Again, I really am sorry for my hurtful remarks & comments towards some of you. Hope you all will find it in your heart to forgive me & be friendly towards me. May God bless each & everyone of you in whatever path you take in life.

Yours truly,

K-Ready For-Christ

[natty dread]

Ok, now that you're back, perhaps you'd care to address this post?

Amino acid racemization

Amino acid racemization dating is a technique that is used to date fossilized objects up to several millions of years in age. The naturally occuring amino acid molecules usually possess a carbon centre with four different groups joining it; a hydrogen atom, the amino group, the acid group (hence the name of the class of molecule) and a side chain, which is what distinguishes amino acids. In three dimensional space, such a molecular topology can occupy one of two configurations; D (right), or L (left), which are refered to as stereoisomers and are essentially mirror images of each other. The ratio of these two isomers is initially unequal (with only one exception, naturally occurring amino acids used in polypeptide synthesis are in the L form) but over time this will decay to a more balanced state in a process called racemization, where the ratio between L and D stereoisomers will be equal. Measuring the degree of racemization and other known quantities can give you an estimated age of the sample. By measuring the racemization of the amino acid isoleucine, for example, objects can be dated up to several million years old.[2] While it is true that there can be great variability on the rate at which amino acids undergo racemization, the changes in humidity, temperature, and acidity required to make the oldest known samples conform to a young earth (under 6000 years) view are completely unreasonable.

How is this possible if the earth is only 6000 years old?

Geomagnetic reversals

A geomagnetic reversal is a change in the polarity of the Earth's magnetic field. The frequency at which these reversals occur varies greatly, but they usually happen once every 50,000 to 800,000 years, and generally take thousands of years.[12] This fact is obviously inconsistent with the young earth idea; around 171 reversals are geologically documented, which would make the earth at least several millions of years old.[4]

How is this possible if the earth is only 6000 years old?

Human Y-chromosomal ancestry

The Y-chromosome, unlike most DNA, is inherited only from the father, which means that all DNA on the human Y chromosome comes from a single person. This does not mean that there was only one person alive at that time, but that a single man's Y-chromosomal DNA has out-competed the other strains and is now - not taking into account smaller and less drastic mutations - the only one left. Because the only factor affecting the makeup of the DNA on the chromosome is mutation, measuring mutation rates and extrapolating them backwards can tell you when this man lived. Calculations by the geneticist Spencer Wells have shown that this man lived around 60,000 years ago.

How is this possible if man was created 6000 years ago?

Lack of DNA in fossils

Deoxyribonucleic acid (DNA), the universal carrier of genetic information, is present in all organisms while they are alive. When they die, their DNA begins to decay under the influence of hydrolysis and oxidation. The speed of this decay varies on a number of factors. Sometimes, the DNA will be gone within one century, and in other conditions, it will persist for as many as one million years. The average amount of time detectable DNA will persist though is somewhere in the middle; given physiological salt concentrations, neutral pH, and a temperature of 15 °C, it would take around 100,000 years for all the DNA in a sample to decay to undetectable levels.[20]

If fossils of the dinosaurs were less than 6,000 years old, detectable fragments of DNA should be present in a sizable percent of dinosaur fossils, especially in the Arctic and Antarctic regions where the decay of DNA can be slowed down 10-25 fold. A claim that soft tissues in a Tyrannosaurus fossil had been recovered in 2005[21] have since been shown to be mistaken,[22] supporting the idea that dinosaur fossils are extremely old.[23]

How is this possible if live dinosaurs existed any time during the last 6000 years?