Matrix mafia Day 3 - no-one died? [Abandoned]

[TA1LGUNN3R]

Have we noticed that Commander,Edocsil, Myself and strike wolf have been the only ones participating in any capacity.

Well I voted for the Haggis a while back, but in the meanwhile y'all have just been gabbing on about who could be possible roles, which is pointless. So the "capacity" is relative.

-Tails

[Commander9]

Well, according to Day 2 scene, there are agents, so this is the updated list. (Don't claim - this is just so we'd see all the info in one post)

Likely characters:

1. Neo - ???
2. Morpheus - ???
3. Trinity - ???
4. Agent Smith - ???
5. Oracle - Sax
6. Seraph - ???
7. Sati - 00
8. Trainman - Fir
9. Architect - ???
10. Keymaker - Mr. Squirrel
11. Agents - ???
12. Twins - ???
13. Merovingian - Edoc
14. Niobe? - Safari.

Pro town:
Sax, 00, Commander9, Strike(?), safari (?), Flow

Survivors (but rather scummy):
Edoc, Fir.

Other scummy:
Haggis, Vio.

Around, but not posting much
Tg

MIA:
/, Chu.

Just got here:
Dlanor



As far as lynching goes, IMO, case on Vio is stronger than Haggis one and Edoc's reluctance only makes me want to do this more. Furthermore, this should provide more information than the Haggis one, so I suggest pressuring Vio into claiming.

[Haggis_McMutton]

@edoc, Hey, maybe if you repeat it enough times that there's a case against me it'll magically make it true.

in the meantime all you've got is:

Guess I've put off defending long enough(what can I say, i too have been a lazy bugger lately).

Ok, here goes nothing.

VOTE HAGGIS

My reasoning, primarily bandwagoning when it was particularly easy to do so without rousing suspicion and then trying to kill claimed town power roles.

1.It isn't really bandwagoning if i'm providing good reasons for my votes.
2. If the only reason to lynch Sax after his claim was to "try to kill town power roles", then you are admitting to doing that yourself, correct?

Most my issues are with the first few lines.

With the count of wagoning you did on my case, you admitted that yourself. On Icon's case you said

Like I said about the vote on you.
1. Your case on me applies better on you. Therefore if it has any value, then my vote on you also had value.
2. It was definitely better than a no lynch.

Do you dispute any of these points?

Here's how i read this exchange:
edoc:"Ok, not a bad fakeclaim, but you need to add more flavour. Give us something about the bulletproofness"
sax:" Oh, I've got it, how about blablabla"
edoc:"good enough, ok guys let's move on, unvote"

This just doesn't smell good at all. Sorry, but the obscure role + this very weird exchange = vote icon

The only way this makes sense is if me, Icon and Sax are all scum together, which even back then should have been obviously not the case.

That's not how it's done. you can't state exact theories like that, they will very likely be wrong. What I saw in that exchange was both you and sax being linked with icon. Sax had some previous posts linking him with icon as well. Furthermore Icon had acted quite suspiciously. Are you telling me that the scummy guy who now has connections to two other people is not a good lynch candidate?

And on Sax's case, I pushed before he claimed role and after he claimed insane abilities. you pushed right after he claimed role. He is a threat to you for one reason or another.

He claimed insane abilities before he claimed the role. Pushing != voting. Here's my post before he claimed a role:

I'm not a mathematician but I'm pretty sure that unlynchable townie+unlynchable townie=unbalanced. two unlynchable townies that could subsequently be recruited by the cult and become two unlynchable cult members=even more unbalanced. Frankly I think you're lying and the fact that you've claimed unlynchable tells me that there's not really a downside to pushing for your lynch.

Strike I am unlynchable for a reason.
I am also bulletproof until someone dies.
and I am town.

I assume you're also a doctor, cop, vigilante and busdriver ...

At this point you've got to claim. You can't just say "oh btw I'm unlynchable and bulletproof. K, thnks" and expect to be left alone ...

Also, this is a comment in general. IF you are indeed a townie, for god's sake stop claiming out of the blue like this in every game. Claiming is a last resort ffs ...

And also:

Plus if we lynch him and he somehow turns out to actually be also unlynchable I'm guessing the mod will give us a few extra days(and piss himself laughing cause we tried to lynch 2 unlynchable characters on D1)

So, yeah. We want to hear you claim Sax, or we'll just test it.

If that's not pushing I don't know what is.

Once more you attempt to twist the facts, turning my not voting for him before he claims(aka being cautious) while stating that I'm clearly very suspicious of his supposed abilities into me voting him only because he claimed oracle...

I know you're supposed to be third party or something, but all these manipulation attempts don't seem very pro-town to me ...

Out of which you have refuted exactly 0 points...

Anyway, the other recent events:

Not really sure how to respond to this, but didn't want to ignore it either. I don't see the need to "out" anyone yet. Not everyone is bad.

This does seem weird. Why exactly won't you tell us more about this?

Hmm you're right. Well does not appear he's claimed joat in all his games but in the Post Apoc. Mafia he also claimed town JOAT...

Gut tells me he's fake claiming in one of those. It's useful to fakeclaim a role you're actually currently playing, the play style is really fresh in your head, I almost did it in one game a while ago but decided people might spot it.
However the roleclaim seems decent.

@ Sax's theory: You've got a tendency to come up with "theories" like that, don't you? There are way WAY to many assumptions building upon other assumptions in that thing. You don't need to make absurd theories like that, just look for anti-town behaviour and go from there.

The Twins are my bodyguard. Now you see why I dislike some of the claims there is not much space. You are also missing the Trainman, Fircoal. He admitted that. Either Niobe or the Architect doesn't fit IMO, but neither of you have done anything worth lynching over. Again IMO. That's why I pushed for haggis. With another claim or two the fakes are going to become blindingly obvious.

So let's clarify, you didn't push for me cause you think I'm scum, you pushed for me cause you figured you could get me to claim and you want to find out everyone's role so you can more easily win, right?

Your last sentence seems painfully close to suggesting that a mass claim would be good. We'll it'd be good for you I guess, not so much for town ...

Lastly, Tails, you've been completely under the radar day 2, yet have managed to cast a vote. A little anxious for more claims as well?

[edocsil]

Yes, with this many claims out on the table and such a strict game we may as well hunt out a few more names. The foolish events D1 could possibly be put to use. I am not suggesting a mass claim, but I am going to pick a target from those who have not yet claimed a name. I do think you are scum at this point. I do not think we should just go for a wagon and kill you as I could be wrong. Proceeding boldly with caution if you get my meaning. Also I did counter your points but they got buried under flavor spec. Most of your counters were invalid due to you misrepresentation of their timing. Your strongest point was that the wagoning accusations applied better to me. On the Icon case I freely admit that my actions were incredibly scummy, but on the Sax case, you voted for him after he claimed character and before he claimed role. That was scummy. That is the heart of my argument and I do not see a way for you to dodge it. You again wagoned me, I guess it could be better then a NL, but that really isn't an argument for now. I also do not care for how you cut many of my responses off mid-sentence in your quotes, the responses you said I didn't make.

[strike wolf]

Well really edoc's all but said vio is his body guard (yes I know you probably don't want that to come to light but hey I feel outing a third party role is better than outing a town role which we've done too much of already). There's only really a few options for Safari. he is Niobi and is town. He's Niobi but was recruited. Or he's Smith and recruited Niobi making him comfortable claiming it. The latter two are jumping to conclusions with no real evidence so at this point I'm a bit conflicted. I don't want to expose another potential town member...the least likely claimed town member is still probably town and than there's vio who's probably third party which wouldn't do town much good for finding scum...On the other hand, it could once and for all prove if edoc is telling the truth about his group or not and whether Vio is linked to him or not I see no way that she is town. So for now:

vote vio


As far as flow, I don't usually do this but I'm going to shed a bit of doubt on someone you seem convinced is town. She's not Seraph, at least not as your flavor analysis on what the role should be is. She might be Seraph but it would mean that she didn't know who Sati was (She was on the wagon for a while and dropped only because icon was at l-1 and someone requested an unvote) and there's no evidence to support she knew Sax was The Oracle (unless I misreread she didn't come to sax's defense until after it was obvious he was claiming The Oracle). Now I would agree that there is a good chance that Flow is or at least was yesterday pro-town but it seemed like we were moving more and more towards Flow being the unquestioned, no fail townie and I don't like that thought process, especially in a cult game where just about everyone is a potential recruit.

[Commander9]

Well really edoc's all but said vio is his body guard (yes I know you probably don't want that to come to light but hey I feel outing a third party role is better than outing a town role which we've done too much of already). There's only really a few options for Safari. he is Niobi and is town. He's Niobi but was recruited. Or he's Smith and recruited Niobi making him comfortable claiming it. The latter two are jumping to conclusions with no real evidence so at this point I'm a bit conflicted. I don't want to expose another potential town member...the least likely claimed town member is still probably town and than there's vio who's probably third party which wouldn't do town much good for finding scum...On the other hand, it could once and for all prove if edoc is telling the truth about his group or not and whether Vio is linked to him or not I see no way that she is town. So for now:

vote vio


As far as flow, I don't usually do this but I'm going to shed a bit of doubt on someone you seem convinced is town. She's not Seraph, at least not as your flavor analysis on what the role should be is. She might be Seraph but it would mean that she didn't know who Sati was (She was on the wagon for a while and dropped only because icon was at l-1 and someone requested an unvote) and there's no evidence to support she knew Sax was The Oracle (unless I misreread she didn't come to sax's defense until after it was obvious he was claiming The Oracle). Now I would agree that there is a good chance that Flow is or at least was yesterday pro-town but it seemed like we were moving more and more towards Flow being the unquestioned, no fail townie and I don't like that thought process, especially in a cult game where just about everyone is a potential recruit.

No one is CONFIRMED townie but 00 (Sati) and even then she might have been recruited. I'm merely trying to sum up what we know as of yet and with what we can work. If we'll just think that everyone's against us and everyone is recruited, we won't get far.

[Flow520]

As far as flow, I don't usually do this but I'm going to shed a bit of doubt on someone you seem convinced is town. She's not Seraph, at least not as your flavor analysis on what the role should be is. She might be Seraph but it would mean that she didn't know who Sati was (She was on the wagon for a while and dropped only because icon was at l-1 and someone requested an unvote) and there's no evidence to support she knew Sax was The Oracle (unless I misreread she didn't come to sax's defense until after it was obvious he was claiming The Oracle). Now I would agree that there is a good chance that Flow is or at least was yesterday pro-town but it seemed like we were moving more and more towards Flow being the unquestioned, no fail townie and I don't like that thought process, especially in a cult game where just about everyone is a potential recruit.

I think people should judge me by my actions day 1. I believe my actions day 1 leave my identity safely shrouded in some doubt (which Strike confirms here), but strongly town. Regarding being recruited, I'm still of the opinion that there is not a recruiting role in this game.

Regarding a vote:

Ok I'm pretty sure vio is lying about being told not to trust multiple people so unless someone has a reason for me not to I do not see vio turning up town. vote vio

I noticed this also before night 1 shortly before the lynch.

I do somewhat agree that lynching Edoc will get us nowhere at this point.

I think that if edoc were scum he wouldn't have been playing quite as boldly. I do find it interesting that commander's role tells him not to trust edoc. Mine tells me not to trust commander.

Vote VioIet

[Commander9]

Rather convenient time for you to appear - you've been nowhere to be found on Day 2 and as soon as your name has been mentioned, you respond.

[Flow520]

Rather convenient time for you to appear - you've been nowhere to be found on Day 2 and as soon as your name has been mentioned, you respond.

Completely not true. Take this for example earlier day 2.

Where's Flow?? Suddenly the great defender of Sax has gone quiet.

[Commander9]

Completely not true. Take this for example earlier day 2

Let me rephrase: as soon as your name is mentioned in not a very positive light... your last post before these two was 22 days ago.

[Flow520]

Completely not true. Take this for example earlier day 2

Let me rephrase: as soon as your name is mentioned in not a very positive light... your last post before these two was 22 days ago.

Speaking on mentioning me in "not a very positive light", it's interesting that you include in your calculation what everyone knows was very very very long night during which no one is supposed to post...

[Commander9]

Speaking on mentioning me in "not a very positive light", it's interesting that you include in your calculation what everyone knows was very very very long night during which no one is supposed to post...

Ooops, forgot about that - you're right here, my bad. It's still been 8 days, (it's much less than 22, I know) which is still rather significant, but yes, it's not THAT bad.

[strike wolf]

Well still commander does have a point even if he was wrong on the details. Do you at least have an excuse for why you were gone? you seem to have an idea of what's been going on while you were gone and the sudden comment when I mentioned you could be construed as odd.

[Flow520]

Well still commander does have a point even if he was wrong on the details. Do you at least have an excuse for why you were gone? you seem to have an idea of what's been going on while you were gone and the sudden comment when I mentioned you could be construed as odd.

The night went so long that I gave the game up for lost...

[strike wolf]

Fair enough I guess...looking at your post history you were inactive during that 8 day span anyways.

[edocsil]

Thanks there strike. Not helpful. Vio is of course the Twins, I am sure she will come around to confirm this later. I really don't see what you gained by this strike, a BG is only useful if it is unknown. It would have been much better for her to be investigated and come up innocent then this foolishness that I was subtly trying to divert.

As of last night someone attempted to kill her, resulting in an unusual occurrence, we are now masoned and can talk at any time. If you wouldn't, please diver your attention elsewhere and allow her to be investigated. You really have nothing to gain from killing her, as a simple investigation can prove the worth of my words and will not have the unfortunate effect of leaving me defenseless.

[VioIet]

I have to go to work soon, so I can't post much right now.

But just wanted to claim.

What edoc says is correct.


FOS strike for stating the obvious.

I think someone is mad about not being able to kill me last night. Or if not mad, just overly suspicious.

I am the Twins. I am a survivor. I am masoned with edoc.

I went after Commander Day 1, because he was going very very hard against edoc- and I knew edoc wasn't scum. I knew edoc's role from the beginning- but it took edoc sometime to realize my exact role.

Fir was the surprise.

I figured commander had to be scum to be so relentless against a player who is no threat to the town. My goal is to survive and protect edoc.


If you read back to day 1, i made a few long posts- and if you read through the lines- this was evident.

[Commander9]

I'm tempted to buy this - but we still need to investigate either fir or vio to learn the groups alignment and to look at Safari, so tough choice. Since Safari said he can investigate, we might as well try that Sax looks at Safari, while Safari looks at Fir/Vio (If Edoc is GF, he'd come out as innocent, so not worthy).

I guess this really leaves us with only one candidate for the lynch today...

[Commander9]

Another argument for them: Matrix was mainly a war of machines versus humans and so programs really were not that involved and Meronvingian would fit here. While a survivor group of 3 is rare (never seen it before), I guess it does fit a bit with the context and while I'd still like to get them investigated, I'm starting to think that I've been barking at the wrong tree...

[edocsil]

Another argument for them: Matrix was mainly a war of machines versus humans and so programs really were not that involved and Meronvingian would fit here. While a survivor group of 3 is rare (never seen it before), I guess it does fit a bit with the context and while I'd still like to get them investigated, I'm starting to think that I've been barking at the wrong tree...

Crusades mafia had a survivor group of 3.

[Commander9]

Crusades mafia had a survivor group of 3.

From what I remember, they were not in the same faction and did not know each other.

[safariguy5]

I'm fine with investigating Vio or Chu, I'm leaning towards chu because he's not been around recently. As for a lynch target, I think that we need to get a feel for most of the people in the game. As said earlier, tails hasn't been real active and we haven't gotten either a town or scummy feel to him, so I'm inclined to pressure him a bit as he seems to be lying low and minimally participating.

unvote vote tails

[edocsil]

Crusades mafia had a survivor group of 3.

From what I remember, they were not in the same faction and did not know each other.

A few of them knew each other, but that is unimportant now

[strike wolf]

I'm definitely in favor of hearing more from the less active members though I'm not sure if simply being less active in this games warrants voting for tails. Personally I'm a bit frustrating as Haggis despite the fact I'm not really picking up any strong scum vibes from him is one of the best targets for lynch maybe the best target and the only people I have been getting any scum vibes from now are starting to appear more and more town aligned or at least not linked to the mafia or a Smith. Other than that cult games are always frustrating for me as the most trusted townies one day are often the least trustworthy the next. I don't know. I guess putting a bit more pressure on tails and trying to get him to be more active can't hurt. vote tails

As far as revealing vio, it was already pretty obvious that vio was either scum or survivor at that point as her behavior made no sense for town and thought I might as well test it. Considering that if vio wasn't part of your group as I wasn't quite convinced she was, she'd almost assuredly be scum so I put out my thoughts on her being your body guard and see if you would confirm or deny (either way it was heading that direction anyways). So think of it what you will, I'd just much rather expose a third party survivor which the mafia won't pay as much attention to as they would a town power role than wind up exposing Neo or Morpheus by following a weak case that I didn't really believe in.

[TheSaxlad]

Agreed, Tails has just put enough in for us to think that he's participating, but there was nothing of substance in his posts.

unvote vote tails

MOD- Can we get a vote count atm