Wisconsin State Employees & Budget Cuts

[Night Strike]

And, no democracy is not just something that happens on one day. People CONTINUE to have a voice, even after an election. And, as I stated before, being elected doesn't mean you are suddenly God, to decide whatever you wish. I fully realize that many politicians are under the mistaken impression that this is the case, but it is not.

Funny, I don't recall you saying that when 60%+ of the public were saying that Obamacare should NOT be passed (and when a plurality continues to say it should be repealed).

[PLAYER57832]

And, no democracy is not just something that happens on one day. People CONTINUE to have a voice, even after an election. And, as I stated before, being elected doesn't mean you are suddenly God, to decide whatever you wish. I fully realize that many politicians are under the mistaken impression that this is the case, but it is not.

Funny, I don't recall you saying that when 60%+ of the public were saying that Obamacare should NOT be passed (and when a plurality continues to say it should be repealed).

Probably because your figures are way off. At MOST, it was just barely over 50% who did not like "Obamacare".... and that was a mixed group of people who want MORE, not less government intervention in the health insurance industry. (we can talk more about that in the other thread)

Anyhow, you do point to a MAJOR difference between this latest crop of Republicans, and some "tea partiers". They are under the mistaken impression that being voted into office means everyone agrees with every last idea they have ever had or ever will have, even if it wasn't directly discussed in the campaign. Most Democrats, and most older Republicans even, understand that they were voted in because they were a tiny bit better than the other choices, and that in no way means people agree with all of their agenda. Even those who agree are not necessarily in so much agreement that they want no compromise.

[PopeBenXVI]

And, no democracy is not just something that happens on one day. People CONTINUE to have a voice, even after an election. And, as I stated before, being elected doesn't mean you are suddenly God, to decide whatever you wish. I fully realize that many politicians are under the mistaken impression that this is the case, but it is not.

Funny, I don't recall you saying that when 60%+ of the public were saying that Obamacare should NOT be passed (and when a plurality continues to say it should be repealed).

Probably because your figures are way off. At MOST, it was just barely over 50% who did not like "Obamacare".... and that was a mixed group of people who want MORE, not less government intervention in the health insurance industry. (we can talk more about that in the other thread)

Anyhow, you do point to a MAJOR difference between this latest crop of Republicans, and some "tea partiers". They are under the mistaken impression that being voted into office means everyone agrees with every last idea they have ever had or ever will have, even if it wasn't directly discussed in the campaign. Most Democrats, and most older Republicans even, understand that they were voted in because they were a tiny bit better than the other choices, and that in no way means people agree with all of their agenda. Even those who agree are not necessarily in so much agreement that they want no compromise.

Your right that even those who put the new Tea Party people in do not agree with them 100%. I believe we need to cut a minimum of 750 Billion from the Budget. 60 Billion is nothing....I bet Obama spends that on one of his Whitehouse frat party schmoosing sessions. Just completely doing away with the EPA would be a good start to balancing the budget. I would love to line item that baby

[spurgistan]

I find your characterization of Obama as a fratboy quite amusing, given his predecessors in the office. Work on your ad hominem, bro.

[PopeBenXVI]

Your right, Clinton was pretty bad too. Sorry I left him out.

Walker....."WINNING!"

[the.killing.44]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5sx-4i5y0E

[PopeBenXVI]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5sx-4i5y0E

Yes, I agree it's about time they passed this because Miller and the others would not consider any concessions offered over the last couple weeks and closed off negotiations on Monday. The state needs to get back to business and the era of gravy train worker privileges bankrupting the state taxpayers are over.

Walker for President!!

[Phatscotty]

This is how Kansas kicked out the stinkies back in the 1890's during the Legislative War

[GreecePwns]

Just curious, what exactly was the loophole which allowed them to pass the bill?

If anything, its possible issue will have the same affect on Democrats that health care did to Republicans. In Wisconsin and the surrounding states that is.

Still, its hard to believe this chain of events actually occurred.

1. Wisconsin running surplus.
2. Tax cuts to businesses.
3. Wisconsin running deficits.
4. End collective bargaining rights for public workers.

[Night Strike]

Just curious, what exactly was the loophole which allowed them to pass the bill?

Previously it was included in their budget bill. They realized that since actually stopping the collective bargaining for public unions did not have a direct and immediate affect on the budget, they could pass it without needing 20 members present. I also assume that this would have no impact on current contracts since modifying current contracts would have budget implications.

Still, its hard to believe this chain of events actually occurred.

1. Wisconsin running surplus.
2. Tax cuts to businesses.
3. Wisconsin running deficits.
4. End collective bargaining rights for public workers.

That's because 2 did not cause 3. Wisconsin runs budgets for 2 years instead of the standard 1 year. Although they were operating under a surplus, the next projected budget was already calling for a deficit even before tax cuts were approved. They passed the tax cuts to attract new businesses (aka jobs and tax revenue) to the state and then went to balance the budget. The amount of spending on public union pensions is outpaced only by Social Security and Medicaid for states (Medicare and Defense for federal level), so it makes sense for that area to be a target of cuts. Furthermore, how can any person say with a straight face that it's alright for public employees to pay almost nothing into their own pensions and only 5% for their own health care when private sector workers have to pay up to 12% and 25%, respectively, for those services? What's even worse is that it's really those private sectors who also have to pay those pensions and health care costs that the public unions refuse to pay.

[HapSmo19]

Just curious, what exactly was the loophole which allowed them to pass the bill?

The Senate requires a quorum to take up any measure that spends money. But Republicans on Wednesday took all the spending measures out of Walker's proposal and a special committee of lawmakers from both the Senate and Assembly approved the revised bill a short time later.

Booya!

[thegreekdog]

Just curious, what exactly was the loophole which allowed them to pass the bill?

If anything, its possible issue will have the same affect on Democrats that health care did to Republicans. In Wisconsin and the surrounding states that is.

Still, its hard to believe this chain of events actually occurred.

1. Wisconsin running surplus.
2. Tax cuts to businesses.
3. Wisconsin running deficits.
4. End collective bargaining rights for public workers.

Find me the legislation in #2!

[SirSebstar]

taxes?

[thegreekdog]

taxes?

Player made this argument earlier as well. She indicated (and greecepwns indicates) that Wisconsin cut taxes for businesses. I would like a copy of this legislation.

[PLAYER57832]

taxes?

Player made this argument earlier as well. She indicated (and greecepwns indicates) that Wisconsin cut taxes for businesses. I would like a copy of this legislation.

This was what one of the Dem legislators said. Someone disputed this and I asked if there was a copy of the bill, but have not seen one yet... only summaries.

[Phatscotty]

taxes?

Player made this argument earlier as well. She indicated (and greecepwns indicates) that Wisconsin cut taxes for businesses. I would like a copy of this legislation.

Hutchinson Technologies just moved from Minnesota to Wisconsin on Wednesday. They didn't say why Wisconsin just found 900 jobs.

[Phatscotty]

Just ask a democrat. The whole reason WI is in this -3.8 billion dollar mess is because Walker cut taxes 110 million as one of his first acts. I know where the legislation is, I will get around to posting it for everyone else.

[PopeBenXVI]

Just curious, what exactly was the loophole which allowed them to pass the bill?

If anything, its possible issue will have the same affect on Democrats that health care did to Republicans. In Wisconsin and the surrounding states that is.

Still, its hard to believe this chain of events actually occurred.

1. Wisconsin running surplus.
2. Tax cuts to businesses.
3. Wisconsin running deficits.
4. End collective bargaining rights for public workers.

Being from Wisconsin allow me to clarify what has been happening here the last 4 years

1. Gov Doyle used one time stimulus money to plug deficit spending
2. Gov Doyle used one time tobacco settlement money to plug deficit spending
3. Gov Doyle raids hundreds of millions from the state transportation fund to plug deficit spending
4. Gov Doyle raises taxes on businesses and individuals by Billions of dollars to plug deficit spending
5. Gov Doyle approves a no bid contract for a low speed train no one will ride
6. Gov Doyle trys to ram through union contracts in the lame duck before Walker gets in but 1 Dem Senator says it's wrong & votes against it.
7. Walker takes over with an already projected deficit assuming no state spending changes
8. Walker approves business tax cuts to offset business & personal tax hikes rammed though in 24 hours (with no public debate allowed) by Doyle the previous year (see section 4)
9. Walker takes away collective bargaining privileges that have been abused by unions over decades
10. Wisconsin Taxpayers love Walker

Sorry if you only have been tuning in since Feb of this year and did not know the details.

[Juan_Bottom]

10. Wisconsin Taxpayers love Walker

Prove it. According to Rasmussen, you don't know what Rasmussen is.

Friday, March 4th

A new Rasmussen Reports telephone survey of Likely Wisconsin Voters finds that just 34% Strongly Approve of the job he is doing, while 48% Strongly Disapprove. Overall, including those who somewhat approve or disapprove, the new Republican governor earns positive reviews from 43% and negative reviews from 57% of voters statewide.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_ ... val_rating


Interesting if true:

The firm has polled in recent weeks on eight newly elected governors. Among those eight, Walker is easily the most polarizing, measured by the gap between how Democratic and Republican voters view his performance. In PPP's poll of Wisconsin voters Feb. 24-27, Walker had an approval rating of 86% among Republicans and 8% among Democrats, for a partisan approval gap of 78 points. None of the other new governors PPP has polled on (in Colorado, California, South Carolina, Tennessee, Rhode Island, New Mexico, South Dakota) comes close to that number. Walker has the best numbers among the eight from his own party and the worst numbers from the opposing party. That's partisan polarization.

[GreecePwns]

10. Wisconsin Taxpayers love Walker

Prove it. According to Rasmussen, you don't know what Rasmussen is.

Friday, March 4th

A new Rasmussen Reports telephone survey of Likely Wisconsin Voters finds that just 34% Strongly Approve of the job he is doing, while 48% Strongly Disapprove. Overall, including those who somewhat approve or disapprove, the new Republican governor earns positive reviews from 43% and negative reviews from 57% of voters statewide.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_ ... val_rating


Interesting if true:

The firm has polled in recent weeks on eight newly elected governors. Among those eight, Walker is easily the most polarizing, measured by the gap between how Democratic and Republican voters view his performance. In PPP's poll of Wisconsin voters Feb. 24-27, Walker had an approval rating of 86% among Republicans and 8% among Democrats, for a partisan approval gap of 78 points. None of the other new governors PPP has polled on (in Colorado, California, South Carolina, Tennessee, Rhode Island, New Mexico, South Dakota) comes close to that number. Walker has the best numbers among the eight from his own party and the worst numbers from the opposing party. That's partisan polarization.

And Rasmussen Reports the polling company with the most conservative bias of the major ones.

[Nobunaga]

... Portion of a letter sent to GOP reps in Wisconsin:

"We feel that you and the people that support the dictator have to die. If you and your goonies feel that it's necessary to strip the rights of 300,000 people and ruin their lives, making them unable to feed, clothe, and provide the necessities to their families and themselves then We Will 'get rid of' (in which I mean kill) you."

... Classy, eh?

[Phatscotty]

... Portion of a letter sent to GOP reps in Wisconsin:

"We feel that you and the people that support the dictator have to die. If you and your goonies feel that it's necessary to strip the rights of 300,000 people and ruin their lives, making them unable to feed, clothe, and provide the necessities to their families and themselves then We Will 'get rid of' (in which I mean kill) you."

... Classy, eh?

See what lies do...

[PopeBenXVI]

Your initial comment was "trying" to understand what occurred that put our state in this situation. (your 1-4 over generalized & uninformed statements) I clarified what illegal & unethical activities the previous Gov did for years to put us here but obviously you would ignore that.

[PopeBenXVI]

... Portion of a letter sent to GOP reps in Wisconsin:

"We feel that you and the people that support the dictator have to die. If you and your goonies feel that it's necessary to strip the rights of 300,000 people and ruin their lives, making them unable to feed, clothe, and provide the necessities to their families and themselves then We Will 'get rid of' (in which I mean kill) you."

... Classy, eh?

See what lies do...

Very classy. I am sure the Democrats from on high will all denounce this and tell everyone to "tone down the Rhetoric" again like they did after what happened in Arizona.

[GreecePwns]

... Portion of a letter sent to GOP reps in Wisconsin:

"We feel that you and the people that support the dictator have to die. If you and your goonies feel that it's necessary to strip the rights of 300,000 people and ruin their lives, making them unable to feed, clothe, and provide the necessities to their families and themselves then We Will 'get rid of' (in which I mean kill) you."... Classy, eh?

See what lies do...

Very classy. I am sure the Democrats from on high will all denounce this and tell everyone to "tone down the Rhetoric" again like they did after what happened in Arizona.

Or there's could use the same excuse the Tea Party does.

They're not representative of the group.

Then again, I'm not a Democrat.