Terminator Mafia Game Thread Mafia Win!

[freezie]

Alright..First of all sorry guys for not posting..I completly forgot this game. Now on the serious part..

To AOG: You're the one to blame on the bw you got..No lynch day 1 isn't the way to go, granted lynching our cop day 1 isn't smart, bit without info we're going to no lynch all week and get the mafia an easy win. We need to lynch, cops or not.

Doomyoshi:

Yea with such a short deadline, we are going to need to hustle to get a lynch together. Since we have nothing to go on so far, I will just place my vote on whoever posts the least by day 4.

At first you say you're going to vote-lynch the person who has least post......It's good to put pressure on inactives ( AkA myself ) but voting them near the deadline is.....useless. Then:

While it may not have anything to do with whether they are scum or not, it does have to do with how useful they are going to be in securing lynches, which the town needs. I realize no lynch will most likely be the result day 1, but unless you can suggest a more prudent tactic for day 1 voting, I will stand at that.

Flawed logic on your idea of voting the inactive near deadline, then you clearly say you know a no lynch will be happening.....

I am not willing to vote No Lynch. I clearly stated I would vote for someone. I just realize that unless we have a major good luck event, no lynch is how I predict the day ending. Especially since AoG comes from a more cautious school. I don't think the AoG BW will reveal anything. unvote vote AoG

A ''major good lunck event''...you know like...the town playing? Once again..you don't make sense, and you say the BW on AoG won't reveal anything (about him as you corrected ) but you should know full well by now that he would have to claim, revealing something...you ''putting pressure'' but without pressuring is what I call a WIFOM to me..

I think we knew your logic to begin with, we just don't agree with it. In an unknown setup, a no lynch day 1 is like pawn to g3 first turn move... not a lot of productivity. However, you are fixed in your school of thought and some of us are fixed in ours. Perhaps you can suggest a better candidate for a first day lynch?

I can suggest a better candidate for a first day lynch..you know..like:

Vote: doomyoshi

[naxus]

Blake while mistakes can happen, My belief in mafia games is the same as in literature. There are no mistakes in a book, everything in the book was meant to be there.

Unvote Vote Blake

[blakebowling]

Since I'm not sure, I thought I'd ask.

When should I claim. L-2? L-3?? L1???

[DoomYoshi]

blake, so far I'd say you're doing better than DoomYoshi.

Blake put him at L-1 which is cutting it so close that the only possible result was a roleclaim.

Would you please tell me, in simple terms, why this is bad?

The point of any voting is to get a claim and then determine whether a lynch is in order or not. So what exactly did blake do that you think is scummy? I'm not getting it.

Roleclaims screw the town. Pure and simple. If the cop roleclaims, the mafia know who the doctor will protect. If the doctor roleclaims, he is dead night 1 as saf doesn't allow self-protection. If a vanilla townie claims, the mafia know not to target him. No matter what happens, a roleclaim is bad for the town. Unless someone claims mafia godfather or something like that. Even if someone is lying, the mafia is MORE likely to know that they are lying.

The point of any voting is not to get a claim. Only scum, or third party, think like that.

[blakebowling]

blake, so far I'd say you're doing better than DoomYoshi.

Blake put him at L-1 which is cutting it so close that the only possible result was a roleclaim.

Would you please tell me, in simple terms, why this is bad?

The point of any voting is to get a claim and then determine whether a lynch is in order or not. So what exactly did blake do that you think is scummy? I'm not getting it.

Roleclaims screw the town. Pure and simple. If the cop roleclaims, the mafia know who the doctor will protect. If the doctor roleclaims, he is dead night 1 as saf doesn't allow self-protection. If a vanilla townie claims, the mafia know not to target him. No matter what happens, a roleclaim is bad for the town. Unless someone claims mafia godfather or something like that. Even if someone is lying, the mafia is MORE likely to know that they are lying.

The point of any voting is not to get a claim. Only scum, or third party, think like that.

So your plan is "Kill them quick before they have a chance to claim"???

[DoomYoshi]

No my plan is to keep the bandwagons moving and piece together information from voting patterns. I was specifically looking for a voting pattern designed for forcing roleclaiming which I consider scummy. I understand that not a lot of people consider that scummy. Of course my background in mafia involves no speaking at all, so maybe I just have a nostalgic aversion to roleclaiming not based on logic.

[DoomYoshi]

I realize the last post can be misread. I mean my aversion is not based on logic, not the roleclaiming:)

To keep all my arguments in one game. I thought that there was no way we could tell anything about AoG based on voting. Right away he said to the town: bring it, sharpen your pitchforks. He proved me correct when he claimed VT. This gives us almost no information about him. He is basically saying to the town again, it doesn't matter if I die: bring it.

I know that I am town. The mafia know that I am town. I decided to place a strategic vote; I made the bandwagon against him no longer based on his wanting a no lynch. I made the bandwagon against him an example bandwagon with which we could pick up information about voting patterns on. I realize it is not enough to secure a guaranteed correct lynch Day 1, but it will certainly help in later Days.

Many players want day 1 roleclaims. I feel they detract from the game.

A bit about myself: I play mafia Fast and Hard. I type Fast and Hard. This means I make a lot of small errors which can be construed as scumtell. Perhaps my wording isn't the best, but I hope you can understand my arguments, if not agree with them.

@Freezie: voting them near the deadline isn't useless if everyone knows you are going to do it and there is a buildup to it. If the argument is already made and people are starting to be convinced, then it is clear that I am not BW hopping, as I 'started' the BW against the inactive. I agree that a random vote against an inactive near the deadline is useless. But a declared vote, with argument, for others to discuss and agree or disagree with, is not useless. That's what I call the 'town playing'. That's not what I call a major good luck event.

[VioIet]

blake, so far I'd say you're doing better than DoomYoshi.

Blake put him at L-1 which is cutting it so close that the only possible result was a roleclaim.

Would you please tell me, in simple terms, why this is bad?

The point of any voting is to get a claim and then determine whether a lynch is in order or not. So what exactly did blake do that you think is scummy? I'm not getting it.

Roleclaims screw the town. Pure and simple. If the cop roleclaims, the mafia know who the doctor will protect. If the doctor roleclaims, he is dead night 1 as saf doesn't allow self-protection. If a vanilla townie claims, the mafia know not to target him. No matter what happens, a roleclaim is bad for the town. Unless someone claims mafia godfather or something like that. Even if someone is lying, the mafia is MORE likely to know that they are lying.

The point of any voting is not to get a claim. Only scum, or third party, think like that.

I felt this post from doom was pretty well stated. I think claims can be detrimental on Day 1- especially if there are too many. However as the game progresses- the claims become more and more useful. Often Day 5 or 6 results in mass claims, and the person with the "weakest" role claim is lynched.

In the Albarezzi game, there about six claims on Day 1. I believe everyone but two people, ended up claiming on Day 1. The town picked the most unbelievable claims as their Day 1 and Day 2 lynch targets. And both of them happened to be scum. So in that game it worked pretty well. But some also say the mass claims can take some fun out of the game.

I agree that ideally, a cop should never claim until he has valuable information.

You say that the mafia would not target AOG. But remember- we cannot even be 100% sure that he is a VT; and neither can the mafia. VT- although believable- is an easy claim.

At this point, i think it is somewhat inevitable that we will end up hearing at least two claims on Day 1, as we search for another suspect.

[MeDeFe]

blake, so far I'd say you're doing better than DoomYoshi.

Blake put him at L-1 which is cutting it so close that the only possible result was a roleclaim.

Would you please tell me, in simple terms, why this is bad?

The point of any voting is to get a claim and then determine whether a lynch is in order or not. So what exactly did blake do that you think is scummy? I'm not getting it.

Roleclaims screw the town. Pure and simple. If the cop roleclaims, the mafia know who the doctor will protect. If the doctor roleclaims, he is dead night 1 as saf doesn't allow self-protection. If a vanilla townie claims, the mafia know not to target him. No matter what happens, a roleclaim is bad for the town. Unless someone claims mafia godfather or something like that. Even if someone is lying, the mafia is MORE likely to know that they are lying.

The point of any voting is not to get a claim. Only scum, or third party, think like that.

So what do you propose he should've done? Kept someone who claimed VT at L-1 for an easy hammer in the hope that the scum would go for it? I'm not convinced that that's a good plan, especially since so many of the votes for AoG were because he proposed voting for no lynch. Maybe you can start extrapolating from the voting pattern by day 4 under those circumstances, when 25% of the players may already be dead. Essentially I'm telling you that your "bandwagon for picking up voting patterns" is indistinguishable from the "bandwagon against people voting no lynch" and therefore useless.

Of course you are right that it would be bad to put pressure on the cop or doc and force them to claim, but the chance that you're putting pressure on a player who's scum is larger than (or at least equal to, in games with many power roles) the chance that you're putting pressure on a key town role. Additionally, in a themed game like this a fakeclaim is quite likely to land a person in hot water. So allow me to disagree with your opinion that roleclaims "screw the town". In a game where you only get a role with no name and backstory that may be the case, but this is definitely not one of those. You only picked the worst case scenarios and completely ignored other, more likely, outcomes. That doesn't make for good support of your argument.

You say you play and type "Fast and Hard" with capital letters even, please for your and everyone's sake, slow down. This is not a game where you don't talk at all. I have played games like that as well, and they work very differently from games played on a forum.

[00iCon]

Sorry for not posting as often as i'd hoped.
Unvote AoG i'll buy your claim.
Also townpoints for DoomYoshi for posting good logic. (also i see you as town based on probability of non-independant events; you were scum in Sully's NV2)

[DoomYoshi]

WHAT? Are you saying that since I was scum in last game, I can't be scum in this one? I like to think those events are independent... although perhaps I need to take more Stats classes;)

[DoomYoshi]

So what do you propose he should've done? Kept someone who claimed VT at L-1 for an easy hammer in the hope that the scum would go for it? I'm not convinced that that's a good plan, especially since so many of the votes for AoG were because he proposed voting for no lynch. Maybe you can start extrapolating from the voting pattern by day 4 under those circumstances, when 25% of the players may already be dead. Essentially I'm telling you that your "bandwagon for picking up voting patterns" is indistinguishable from the "bandwagon against people voting no lynch" and therefore useless.
I think he should not have voted for AoG to begin with. He voted for AoG and originally justified it by saying "someone has to die". Clearly he is in the school where people push for a lynch on anyone. I am of a school where we hunt scum rather than pushing for random lynches.
Then we get:

I voted for AoG because I thought him wanting a no lynch was scummy, and also I was lynched in my first game D1 for not voting anyone, and I figured voting him wouldn't be out of the ordinary.

So now he admits the reason he made it was not because he wanted a lynch, but just so that his voted isn't overanalyzed. Unfortunatey, blind BW hopping with a change of justification half way through is what I call out of the ordinary.

My main point is that blake pushed for a roleclaim. Not for a lynch, not because he actually believed a player was scummy. Just because he wanted to vote and not seem suspicious. A player can easily enough say they have no reasons for voting anyonne. His behaviour was unnecessary.

You say you play and type "Fast and Hard" with capital letters even, please for your and everyone's sake, slow down. This is not a game where you don't talk at all. I have played games like that as well, and they work very differently from games played on a forum.

How is it for everyone's sake? I understand slowing down to keep myself alive, but I don't see how it helps anyone else out? It's not like I'm filling the thread with distracting posts. 90% of what I say is directly related to this game and scumhunting.

[safariguy5]

Vote Count

Rodion(1)- tails
DoomYoshi(2)- MeDeFe, freezie
Tails(1)- Vio
AoG(1)- shieldgenerator7
No Lynch(1)- AoG
blake(4)- Yoshi, Rodion, jeraado, naxus

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline in 2 Days.

[Rodion]

Sorry for not posting as often as i'd hoped.
Unvote AoG i'll buy your claim.
Also townpoints for DoomYoshi for posting good logic. (also i see you as town based on probability of non-independant events; you were scum in Sully's NV2)

If you're awarding townpoints for DoomYoshi for good logic, you should get a big FOS for awful logic/statistics, as mods pick roles, as far as I know, randomly, so the events are independent.

Unfortunately, this is still my first game, so I don't know whether that was just another mistake or a pretty poor strategy for a mafia member to protect his friend from a possible future BW (as DoomYoshi appears to be on the hot seat after the last few pages).

[safariguy5]

Sorry for not posting as often as i'd hoped.
Unvote AoG i'll buy your claim.
Also townpoints for DoomYoshi for posting good logic. (also i see you as town based on probability of non-independant events; you were scum in Sully's NV2)

If you're awarding townpoints for DoomYoshi for good logic, you should get a big FOS for awful logic/statistics, as mods pick roles, as far as I know, randomly, so the events are independent.

Unfortunately, this is still my first game, so I don't know whether that was just another mistake or a pretty poor strategy for a mafia member to protect his friend from a possible future BW (as DoomYoshi appears to be on the hot seat after the last few pages).

Yes, I assign roles using random.org

[shieldgenerator7]

I see the AoG BW has died down. I still think AoG may be scum, but since blake has more votes, and I also think he's scum from my previous argument,
Unvote Vote Blake
I also think yoshi's comments are a tad suspicious.

[DoomYoshi]

In what way are they suspicious?

[MeDeFe]

In what way are they suspicious?

From my point of view, because they're "Hard and Fast" rather than analytical and thought out. I consider your arguments sloppy and, as I said, you would disregard more likely outcomes over the absolute worst-case scenarios. That's a good recipe for confusing people. Your latest posts show some improvement, though.

I can see your point about blake's comment (that him voting for AoG wouldn't be out of the ordinary) being out of the ordinary. But I am more inclined to attribute it to noobishness than to being scum.

[shieldgenerator7]

yoshi, some of your comments may seem scummy to me because a nervous person usually types less carefully. Why would you be nervous? Because you're scum and afraid of being found out. Of course, you may be typing carelessly because you're just plain lacidasical, but it might seem scummy to type carelessly. Personally, I don't know if you're scum or not, that's why I just FoS yoshi instead of voting you. Typing carelessly may be a scumtell and it might not be. IDK for sure. But I really suspect something with the AoG-Blake incident.

[DoomYoshi]

I see the AoG BW has died down. I still think AoG may be scum, but since blake has more votes, and I also think he's scum from my previous argument,
Unvote Vote Blake
I also think yoshi's comments are a tad suspicious.

Here you used the same logic that blake used. So you are voting for him for doing exactly the same thing you did by voting for him?

Anyways, as promised: voting the inactive. It's a tough call, but only one player seems bent on not advancing the town' agenda. unvote vote jeraado Don't think you've escaped my notice either Icon and tails; we need some posts of substance. Today we have had 2 BWs and 3 cases presented as well as some subtle hints. It may not be an epic day 1, but we still got something done and I would like to hear your opinions on as much as possible.

[shieldgenerator7]

I see the AoG BW has died down. I still think AoG may be scum, but since blake has more votes, and I also think he's scum from my previous argument,
Unvote Vote Blake
I also think yoshi's comments are a tad suspicious.

Here you used the same logic that blake used. So you are voting for him for doing exactly the same thing you did by voting for him?

what do you mean, I used the same logic blake used? Blake stopped believing AoG was scum (or so it appears) but I still think they both are. Blake just has more votes than AoG.

[freezie]

I see the AoG BW has died down. I still think AoG may be scum, but since blake has more votes, and I also think he's scum from my previous argument,
Unvote Vote Blake
I also think yoshi's comments are a tad suspicious.

Here you used the same logic that blake used. So you are voting for him for doing exactly the same thing you did by voting for him?

Anyways, as promised: voting the inactive. It's a tough call, but only one player seems bent on not advancing the town' agenda. unvote vote jeraado Don't think you've escaped my notice either Icon and tails; we need some posts of substance. Today we have had 2 BWs and 3 cases presented as well as some subtle hints. It may not be an epic day 1, but we still got something done and I would like to hear your opinions on as much as possible.

It wasn't the same logic..Shield is talking about the quick l-1/unvote from blake..Which does seem scummy when you look at it.

Also, I beleive Tail should be prodded..He hasn't said anything since I beleive page 2.

Also..pointing out that Blake is at l-2 and at this rate we're going to get a massclaim day 1..

But..For now unvote Re-reading the last few posts by Doom made me feel better about him.

I am currently re-reading so..May have something to post shortly

[safariguy5]

Announcement

Tails has been prodded.

[safariguy5]

Vote Count

Rodion(1)- tails
DoomYoshi(1)- MeDeFe
Tails(1)- Vio
No Lynch(1)- AoG
blake(4)- Rodion, jeraado, naxus, shieldgenerator7
jeraado(1)- Yoshi

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline in 2 Days.

[DoomYoshi]

I see the AoG BW has died down. I still think AoG may be scum, but since blake has more votes, and I also think he's scum from my previous argument,
Unvote Vote Blake

Here you used the same logic that blake used. So you are voting for him for doing exactly the same thing you did by voting for him?

It wasn't the same logic..Shield is talking about the quick l-1/unvote from blake..Which does seem scummy when you look at it.

I cut out all the unneccesary stuff above. Part of sg's argument is that "but since has blake has more votes". That's shameless bandwagoning in an attempt to seem unsuspicious. I realize that in sg's mind he is voting for the specific act (vote unvote on AoG). But that specific act was based on blake's attempt to bandwagon in order to seem unsuspicous. It gets a bit convoluted there, but it makes sense I swear