[CC2] 2nd Annual Conqueror's Cup!!

[danryan]

Meh, seriously, if you want a clan war medal, set up a clan war. The Conquerors Cup is a separate "clan tournament" with mini challenges. The medal just isn't that big of a deal, unless it's for winning the Cup.

Where's my medal for being awesome by the way?

Haven't crafted it yet, sorry for the delay.

Get crackin. I need it before the FOED v josko, err... KORT war. After it I may not feel awesome.

[Rodion]

Meh, seriously, if you want a clan war medal, set up a clan war. The Conquerors Cup is a separate "clan tournament" with mini challenges. The medal just isn't that big of a deal, unless it's for winning the Cup.

Where's my medal for being awesome by the way?

Haven't crafted it yet, sorry for the delay.

Get crackin. I need it before the FOED v josko, err... KORT war. After it I may not feel awesome.

If Jos... KORT's plans are carried out as planned, you won't.

[reptile]

Meh, seriously, if you want a clan war medal, set up a clan war. The Conquerors Cup is a separate "clan tournament" with mini challenges. The medal just isn't that big of a deal, unless it's for winning the Cup.

Where's my medal for being awesome by the way?

Ok for one i dont care about the medal all that much either. i think it is just dumb that wars meet the criteria and ppl dont get what they deserve.

As far as mini challenges, you must be confusing the CCup with the CLA, a war of 41-61 games is NO MINI CHALLENGE. if so then you can count the CLA as a best of 1 game between each clan, choose wisely who you send into the games clans

I would like to add that for clans that have 10-14 active players (most) it is very hard to have a challenge as well as a mini challenge that requires 41-61 games at the same time. And there is always a CLA or CCup going on so if you are successful in them then you are always busy...

This is just my thought on it. Very hard to juggle two challenges at once. Because of this it is almost impossible to move up in rankings as well, we have clans moving up the board at ridiculous speeds because they play farming challenges while we win the CLA working our asses off against top tier clans...there are farming clans on the newer/not so good clans.

So you are telling me that farming clan challenges get a medal while CCup (that obviously has to have somewhat organized clans in it) dont. as well as get even more of a boost on the "leaderboard" for a win there, compared to a CCup challenge victory.

I may be wrong but that is the way i am understanding it.

[Master Fenrir]

So you are telling me that farming clan challenges get a medal while CCup (that obviously has to have somewhat organized clans in it) dont. as well as get even more of a boost on the "leaderboard" for a win there, compared to a CCup challenge victory.

I may be wrong but that is the way i am understanding it.

What? Isn't there crap going on right now because TOFU vs. Crusaders was deemed farming and there won't be medals given out? What clan is clan-farming for medals?

[danryan]

Meh, seriously, if you want a clan war medal, set up a clan war. The Conquerors Cup is a separate "clan tournament" with mini challenges. The medal just isn't that big of a deal, unless it's for winning the Cup.

Where's my medal for being awesome by the way?

Haven't crafted it yet, sorry for the delay.

Get crackin. I need it before the FOED v josko, err... KORT war. After it I may not feel awesome.

If Jos... KORT's plans are carried out as planned, you won't.

I've been chemically enhanced to be mickey and roofie proof. That won't work.

[danryan]

BTw, I definitely consider a 40 game war a challenge on the small side. A couple of years ago that might have been a full challenge but anything less than 60 games now is on the small side in my view.

[Chuuuuck]

If Jos... KORT's plans are carried out as planned, you won't.

I spit up my soda on this one. Glad to see you keep a sense of humor Rodion.

[Chuuuuck]

BTw, I definitely consider a 40 game war a challenge on the small side. A couple of years ago that might have been a full challenge but anything less than 60 games now is on the small side in my view.

Agreed, that is why the final 8 was expanded to 60 games this year. Last year it was only 40. With scheduling though, it is hard to make the round of 16 games 60.

[stahrgazer]

BTw, I definitely consider a 40 game war a challenge on the small side. A couple of years ago that might have been a full challenge but anything less than 60 games now is on the small side in my view.

Clan war medals are awarded for 41-game wars, which every war of the CCup meets.

ALSO, people asked up front if CCup skirmishes were eligible for medals and were told YES.

Chuuuck establishes very few of the negotiations. The only non-negotiable part is the tiebreaker, number of games, and number of games per player for each round.

EVERYTHING else is negotiable.

These are loosely-collected clan wars.

They aren't mini challenges, they are full blown wars. That was the idea behind the CCup, that they would be full challenges. They meet all the requirements, so why would they not have medals?

I don't muchly give a f*ck either way if there are or aren't clan medals, but there need to be standards for the medals, and I don't feel that jpcloet is creating decent standards.

I do give a f*ck because the question was asked before this series of wars, and the answer came back: yes, all are eligible.

cc2 is a forced scedule. medals are for fair clanwars that both parties agreed upon and have a MINIMUN requirement, in addition more requirements have to be met, and i repeat myself, among which is the free selection of rules/ opponants ect ect within certain bounds...
its not like the medals are paid for....

CC2 is a variating schedule; both parties agree, can send early and sometimes late if all agree, and can negotate rules that are much more strict than the MINIMUM requirements Chuuuck specifies. For example, Chuuuck allowed 15 games per player, but he did NOT prohibit any clan from changing that in negotiations to 11 games per player and so forth.

It's also entirely up to the clans which games go first, etc. and NOTHING prohibits the clans from deciding to send all games at once, because Chuuuck's rules are set up as "send by" dates - and as we've recently seen, Chuuuck's send-by dates are negotiable based on each clan's rate of winning which means, we're setting our own schedules on these.

Thus, each and every one of these wars meet the requirements for these medals.

[L M S]

So we can have a medal for clicking on a few stars and rating someone after a game but NOT for beating a top 5/10/15 clan (out of at least 40 clans, 60 clans, how many are there now, I have no idea) in a very high profile, public clan war that is part of a larger tournament?
Just for the record, its hard as hell to win 21 games out of 41 against a top 5/10/15 (even a top 20 clan has some horses and it aint easy either).

ORLY?

[stahrgazer]

So we can have a medal for clicking on a few stars and rating someone after a game but NOT for beating a top 5/10/15 clan (out of at least 40 clans, 60 clans, how many are there now, I have no idea) in a very high profile, public clan war that is part of a larger tournament?
Just for the record, its hard as hell to win 21 games out of 41 against a top 5/10/15 (even a top 20 clan has some horses and it aint easy either).

ORLY?

You can also be a top-ranked clan who decides to give a new clan a chance and get a medal for pummeling them, although doing that alot could make it look like farming.

But in the case of these wars organized under the Cup banner, each clan has to have participated in two complete wars which means they all have at least some experience in organizing larger challenges - thus, aren't exactly newcomers when they join.

So this:

p.s. I don't think he is even planning to award medals for any of the matches, even the final 8 and on...

I forget where I read it, but I'm pretty sure that this in not accurate. I think the final 8 will receive medals. too busy at work right now to hunt down the post, though.

is horsepatooey, too. The first matches don't meet the requirements for war medals ANY less than the final matches.

Whatever.

If "no medals for all the eligible wars just because they were organized under the CCUP banner" remains the ruling, next time I'll be voting LoW stay home and make their own wars.

[Chariot of Fire]

Have to say I agree with the statements made by the LoW boys (amongst many others) in this thread.

I've always looked at the Conqueror's Cup as a framework in which clan challenges were played out rather than a long-term tourney with just a victor's medal at the end. Each and every match-up is in itself a win, even if it's just to progress from last 16 to last 8, and should be rewarded as such. To say they don't constitute challenges when they meet all the criteria is a decision born of jealousy or spite or I don't know what....but it's plain wrong.

Any clan that enjoys success in the Conqueror's Cup right up to the point of losing in the final is going to be rewarded with what.....nothing? Yet they will have spent the best part of a whole year competing in challenges that could comprise some 285 games - and yet they are now expected to go and play challenges elsewhere if they are to receive any clan war medal for that year? That's simply ridiculous.

The Conqueror's Cup is a great template into which a lot of clans have willingly pooled their resources and are prepared to play any one of the other clans who has also entered (this bit's important for all those who argue 'you don't get to choose your opponent' because indirectly you do, first with the seeding poll and then by acceptance that the opponent can be any one of the other clans that entered).

If "no medals for all the eligible wars just because they were organized under the CCUP banner" remains the ruling, next time I'll be voting LoW stay home and make their own wars.

I agree. Shame isn't it! Way to strangle a popular concept at birth with blind officialdom.

[jj3044]

Have to say I agree with the statements made by the LoW boys (amongst many others) in this thread.

I've always looked at the Conqueror's Cup as a framework in which clan challenges were played out rather than a long-term tourney with just a victor's medal at the end. Each and every match-up is in itself a win, even if it's just to progress from last 16 to last 8, and should be rewarded as such. To say they don't constitute challenges when they meet all the criteria is a decision born of jealousy or spite or I don't know what....but it's plain wrong.

Any clan that enjoys success in the Conqueror's Cup right up to the point of losing in the final is going to be rewarded with what.....nothing? Yet they will have spent the best part of a whole year competing in challenges that could comprise some 285 games - and yet they are now expected to go and play challenges elsewhere if they are to receive any clan war medal for that year? That's simply ridiculous.

The Conqueror's Cup is a great template into which a lot of clans have willingly pooled their resources and are prepared to play any one of the other clans who has also entered (this bit's important for all those who argue 'you don't get to choose your opponent' because indirectly you do, first with the seeding poll and then by acceptance that the opponent can be any one of the other clans that entered).

If "no medals for all the eligible wars just because they were organized under the CCUP banner" remains the ruling, next time I'll be voting LoW stay home and make their own wars.

I agree. Shame isn't it! Way to strangle a popular concept at birth with blind officialdom.

As usual, well said, CoF. Can we have an official reason from the keepers of the medals so that we can all crucify ...er... debate with the decision-makers here?

[Denise]

p.s. I don't think he is even planning to award medals for any of the matches, even the final 8 and on...

I forget where I read it, but I'm pretty sure that this in not accurate. I think the final 8 will receive medals. too busy at work right now to hunt down the post, though.

Here you go, Master Fenrir. Anything else I can do for you? This quote is from the CLA forum. Maybe this will be enough to help jp avoid death by crucifixion.

For those that would like to know, I'm currently rewriting a number of policies and some new stuff. When it finally makes light of day, you'll understand. Medals for final 8 right now, although I'm leaning towards all matchups in CC2 with the changes in policy coming.

Right now I'm in a mini-battle with admin. Not too happy right now with their lack of actions on a number of fronts.

[The Voice]

Meh, seriously, if you want a clan war medal, set up a clan war. The Conquerors Cup is a separate "clan tournament" with mini challenges. The medal just isn't that big of a deal, unless it's for winning the Cup.

Where's my medal for being awesome by the way?

Haven't crafted it yet, sorry for the delay.

Get crackin. I need it before the FOED v josko, err... KORT war. After it I may not feel awesome.

If Jos... KORT's plans are carried out as planned, you won't.

I've been chemically enhanced to be mickey and roofie proof. That won't work.

I'll make you your medal, but I need you to share that power with my sis', who's going to Indiana U. this year (no means yes in Bloomington, IN)

On the topic, I agree that this is more than a medal. The medal makes things more official. Clans participate in part because they believe they have the opportunity to move up the ranks should they perform well in these challenges. Without the medal, the CC2 victors have really only won 1 clan war? That isn't right, and I feel like that's how it would sound.

[Master Fenrir]

Here you go, Master Fenrir. Anything else I can do for you?

Hmm...I'll try to stay a gentleman. *tips hat* Thank you kindly, m'lady. I knew I had seen it somewhere.

[stahrgazer]

Here you go, Master Fenrir. Anything else I can do for you?

Hmm...I'll try to stay a gentleman. *tips hat* Thank you kindly, m'lady. I knew I had seen it somewhere.

I hadn't seen it. If I had, I would've voted LoW stay home and work on a totally-private war instead, this season; since we have so many of our players on full or partial hiatus, we can't support these wars and totally private wars at the same time.

Anyone got the crucifix? I've got hammer and nails.

It's still horse patooey to say that some of the otherwise-eligible wars will be considered ineligible just because they they were at the beginning of a series of otherwise-eligible wars.

On the topic, I agree that this is more than a medal. The medal makes things more official. Clans participate in part because they believe they have the opportunity to move up the ranks should they perform well in these challenges. Without the medal, the CC2 victors have really only won 1 clan war? That isn't right, and I feel like that's how it would sound.

Too right!

[Master Fenrir]

Anyone got the crucifix? I've got hammer and nails.

But, but...

although I'm leaning towards all matchups in CC2 with the changes in policy coming.

Shouldn't we wait to see what happens before we get all Pontius Pilate on JP?

[stahrgazer]

Anyone got the crucifix? I've got hammer and nails.

But, but...

although I'm leaning towards all matchups in CC2 with the changes in policy coming.

Shouldn't we wait to see what happens before we get all Pontius Pilate on JP?

*snort*

I guess you have more faith in moderators making policy decisions that are fair so that the community actually supports them, than I do, MF.

(If the policy was planning to be fair, it already WOULD be, right?)


But the rest of that quote is where the call for the crucifix came from.

Here you go, Master Fenrir. Anything else I can do for you? This quote is from the CLA forum. Maybe this will be enough to help jp avoid death by crucifixion.

[Chariot of Fire]

Is it a crime to cut n paste a post from another thread? It might be, but you'll have to forgive an old man his indiscretions. This is what I wrote in the 'Medals' thread in the Clans forum. I think it makes the most sense (given the way things are looking right now) and I believe people's voices should be heard, i.e. we strive for some resolution on this as soon as we can.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Maybe then the whole thing needs a revamp. If challenges undertaken in the Conqueror's Cup do not receive recognition for a medal then the event will lose its lustre and clans will start to wonder why bother playing in it at all, as it would be simpler (and more rewarding) to just play individual challenges that are medal worthy.

Perhaps the Conqueror's Cup changes its format to one whereby 21 games are played for each head-to-head in a straight knockout format? This would allow for faster completion within a calendar year, more opportunities for upsets just like in a real cup competition, and a medal solely for the members of the clan that wins the final.

Meantime the Clan League can evolve into something more resembling a league than a knockout tourney. It does both at the moment, which sucks for the team that wins 80% of its games during the ladder phase and then loses 8-9 in the knockout phase as by rights that clan would be topping any true 'league' table. Lindax's TLO tourney is a good example of a proper league format, whereby each team gets to play each of the others during the year. The size and scope of the TLO is phenomenal, and how Lindax manages to do it all single-handedly is quite extraordinary. Surely there's scope to look at adopting that tourney as the new Clan League (he's currently doing it with 23 teams, so to incorporate instead all those clans who wish to participate would obviously be no problem).

Conqueror's Cup - reduced gameload, knockout format, tournament medals for the members of the clan that wins the final (so long as those members participated at some stage in the tourney).
Clan League - league format, all clans play each other, new league medals for the participating players in the clan that finishes in 1st place.
Clan challenges - remain as they have always been, minimum 41 games, clans get to choose who they fight, clan medals for the winners.

Looks pretty straightforward to me and I'm sure it would be the best solution. Medals are thus still hard to come by and there would be no argument about the mismatch in the Conqueror's Cup which currently pits the lowest seeds against the highest.

[stahrgazer]

Looks pretty straightforward to me and I'm sure it would be the best solution. Medals are thus still hard to come by and there would be no argument about the mismatch in the Conqueror's Cup which currently pits the lowest seeds against the highest.

Makes sense, except:

• Many Cups for various sports also require a league format.
• A league where every clan plays another clan ALSO will pit the highest seed against the lowest seed at some point, and will still require the winner to beat others (like the Cup does). Chuuuck does the seeding to weed out at the beginning to require less games. It also builds drama.
• The most respectable clans are typically not going to be playing the newer clans just to "farm medals." Most of these "lots of clans in on it," organized events require a new clan to have some finished wars before they can join. High-ranked clans don't NEED to pummel peons to get medals; if that's the only way they can win, they'll be knocked down to size at some point no matter how many "noobs" they've beaten, and the next seeding will reflect that.
• "Playing the newest clans in an organized event is farming," sentiment makes me question tournaments where cadets and brigs are allowed to join, and the first random selection up its the brig against the cadet. If the brig wins an individual "anyone can join," tournament like that, will he be accused of farming because of how the event organized?
• Here's an easier solution: let's segregate events. Only clans with a certain community reputation get to join some events; only clans without that rep can join other events; and individual and team tournaments should also all be segregated by points. (Oh, wait, that doesn't work, CC doesn't want to support rank biases.)
• Whatever the changes are to cup or ladder or whatever in future, doesn't change the fact that right now, except for someone's arbitrary decision, every round of the CCup2 challenges do meet the criteria for clan wars/medals.

[stahrgazer]

One more thing..

Here's evidence that a similarly organized multiple-clan-war event is getting medals even for first rounds.

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=441&t=139417

Chuuuck's competition is biased to only allow clans with experience.

The other competition is biased to only allow clans without much experience.

BOTH events seed.

BOTH events pit top seed against bottom seed.

so, wtf?

[Rodion]

For those that would like to know, I'm currently rewriting a number of policies and some new stuff. When it finally makes light of day, you'll understand. Medals for final 8 right now, although I'm leaning towards all matchups in CC2 with the changes in policy coming.

Right now I'm in a mini-battle with admin. Not too happy right now with their lack of actions on a number of fronts.

Perhaps we can just trust JP and wait?

I mean, we can always complain later, if necessary.

[ljex]

For those that would like to know, I'm currently rewriting a number of policies and some new stuff. When it finally makes light of day, you'll understand. Medals for final 8 right now, although I'm leaning towards all matchups in CC2 with the changes in policy coming.

Right now I'm in a mini-battle with admin. Not too happy right now with their lack of actions on a number of fronts.

Perhaps we can just trust JP and wait?

I mean, we can always complain later, if necessary.

haha why would you ever have faith in the mods to do something that the community actually wanted? They give us tastes of greatness, like for example clan medals but then just put an insane amount of restrictions on them to the point where it would just be easier if they didnt exist.

[chemefreak]

Anyone got the crucifix? I've got hammer and nails.

But, but...

although I'm leaning towards all matchups in CC2 with the changes in policy coming.

Shouldn't we wait to see what happens before we get all Pontius Pilate on JP?

Seriously people! Patience. All of the CCup 1st Round matches were moved to completed with the notation "no medals issued AT THIS TIME". This was in anticipation of the (simple and easy to understand) guidelines that JPC is preparing as I type this. We trusted JPC and he got us privs. We trusted him and we got our medals (which aren't that hard to get Si ) Let's give him a little time to work this out and we can go back and make everything right. Hell, I want my medal for beating GR and I sure as hell want LoW to get a medal for beating us. They fucking earned that shit.