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Should We Drug Test People who Apply for Welfare?

 
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Re: Drug Tests for Welfare Applicants?

Postby PLAYER57832 on Thu Jun 23, 2011 4:58 pm

Phatscotty wrote:We want to encourage Independence and liberty.

We don't want to bailout drug addicts with cash.

I don't really want to bail out anyone, but sometimes we have to do what is expedient. Doing otherwise is "cutting of your nose to spite your face".
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Re: Drug Tests for Welfare Applicants?

Postby Phatscotty on Thu Jun 23, 2011 5:07 pm

PLAYER57832 wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:We want to encourage Independence and liberty.

We don't want to bailout drug addicts with cash.

I don't really want to bail out anyone, but sometimes we have to do what is expedient. Doing otherwise is "cutting of your nose to spite your face".


how is bailing out a drug addict with more cash expedient?
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Re: Drug Tests for Welfare Applicants?

Postby Dukasaur on Thu Jun 23, 2011 5:12 pm

Phatscotty wrote:The deal is that people who are addicted to drugs and have had their lives destroyed by drugs are being enabled to continue the reckless behavior, in this instance.

And people who are addicted to watching TV and having their lives destroyed by sloth are being enabled to continue their reckless behaviour, and people who are addicted to going down to the local massage parlour and give all their money to the rub-and-tug girls are being enabled to continue their reckless behaviour, and so on, and so on, and so on....

This is the point you've completely avoided from the opening bell... why are you obsessing about cutting people off for doing drugs and not for doing a thousand and one other idiotic self-destructive behaviours?
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Re: Drug Tests for Welfare Applicants?

Postby Night Strike on Thu Jun 23, 2011 5:15 pm

Dukasaur wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:The deal is that people who are addicted to drugs and have had their lives destroyed by drugs are being enabled to continue the reckless behavior, in this instance.

And people who are addicted to watching TV and having their lives destroyed by sloth are being enabled to continue their reckless behaviour, and people who are addicted to going down to the local massage parlour and give all their money to the rub-and-tug girls are being enabled to continue their reckless behaviour, and so on, and so on, and so on....

This is the point you've completely avoided from the opening bell... why are you obsessing about cutting people off for doing drugs and not for doing a thousand and one other idiotic self-destructive behaviours?


Because doing drugs is illegal. When you give a blank check to people, the least you can do is make sure they aren't spending it on illegal activities. Just because those other things are stupid for people on welfare to be doing doesn't mean they are illegal.

It's pretty sad that the current line of reasoning against this policy is that A) We can't do it because we aren't doing it to other people and B) We can't do it because people are doing other unhealthy things. What ever happened to stopping ILLEGAL activities?
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Re: Drug Tests for Welfare Applicants?

Postby Phatscotty on Thu Jun 23, 2011 5:22 pm

Night Strike wrote:
Dukasaur wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:The deal is that people who are addicted to drugs and have had their lives destroyed by drugs are being enabled to continue the reckless behavior, in this instance.

And people who are addicted to watching TV and having their lives destroyed by sloth are being enabled to continue their reckless behaviour, and people who are addicted to going down to the local massage parlour and give all their money to the rub-and-tug girls are being enabled to continue their reckless behaviour, and so on, and so on, and so on....

This is the point you've completely avoided from the opening bell... why are you obsessing about cutting people off for doing drugs and not for doing a thousand and one other idiotic self-destructive behaviours?


Because doing drugs is illegal. When you give a blank check to people, the least you can do is make sure they aren't spending it on illegal activities. Just because those other things are stupid for people on welfare to be doing doesn't mean they are illegal.

It's pretty sad that the current line of reasoning against this policy is that A) We can't do it because we aren't doing it to other people and B) We can't do it because people are doing other unhealthy things. What ever happened to stopping ILLEGAL activities?


Nobody who does not have a serious drug problem will be hurt. Please join me in understanding that drug addicts on welfare are thepeople who need help the most.
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Re: Drug Tests for Welfare Applicants?

Postby Dukasaur on Thu Jun 23, 2011 5:35 pm

Night Strike wrote:
Dukasaur wrote:This is the point you've completely avoided from the opening bell... why are you obsessing about cutting people off for doing drugs and not for doing a thousand and one other idiotic self-destructive behaviours?


Because doing drugs is illegal. When you give a blank check to people, the least you can do is make sure they aren't spending it on illegal activities. Just because those other things are stupid for people on welfare to be doing doesn't mean they are illegal.

It's pretty sad that the current line of reasoning against this policy is that A) We can't do it because we aren't doing it to other people and B) We can't do it because people are doing other unhealthy things. What ever happened to stopping ILLEGAL activities?

You say "ILLEGAL" with a passion that suggests you believe ILLEGAL=IMMORAL. I guess that's our basic disagreement. I think that in a democracy one's chances of being elected are directly proportional to one's ability to tell outrageous lies with no remorse. Therefore, I think holding elected office is presumptive evidence of sociopathy, and therefore I believe that any resemblence between what is legal and what is moral is purely coincidental.
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Re: Drug Tests for Welfare Applicants?

Postby Dukasaur on Thu Jun 23, 2011 5:37 pm

Phatscotty wrote:Nobody who does not have a serious drug problem will be hurt. Please join me in understanding that drug addicts on welfare are the people who need help the most.

Cutting off their income so they can go live on the street and steal to survive is helping them?
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Re: Drug Tests for Welfare Applicants?

Postby john9blue on Thu Jun 23, 2011 5:46 pm

Night Strike wrote:Just because I don't think like you doesn't mean I automatically don't think.


yes it does.

liberals are all smart, and all smart people agree with each other on every aspect of politics, so if you are conservative you are dumb. qed
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Re: Drug Tests for Welfare Applicants?

Postby GreecePwns on Thu Jun 23, 2011 5:51 pm

I forgot the part where BBS was a liberal. Must have missed that.

Also, I forgot the part where there were only 2 political ideologies.
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Re: Drug Tests for Welfare Applicants?

Postby Phatscotty on Thu Jun 23, 2011 5:54 pm

Dukasaur wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:Nobody who does not have a serious drug problem will be hurt. Please join me in understanding that drug addicts on welfare are the people who need help the most.

Cutting off their income so they can go live on the street and steal to survive is helping them?


No. not even close.

#1 this is to apply for welfare. If you can't clean yourself up for the 30 whatever days before you apply to qualify for welfare, then you have a drug problem, and free cash isn't going to solve anything and in fact make the problem worse.
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Re: Drug Tests for Welfare Applicants?

Postby GreecePwns on Thu Jun 23, 2011 5:57 pm

Should marijuana be legalized? If so, why should one be clean of marijuana and not of alcohol or tobacco to receive welfare?
Chariot of Fire wrote:As for GreecePwns.....yeah, what? A massive debt. Get a job you slacker.

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Re: Drug Tests for Welfare Applicants?

Postby john9blue on Thu Jun 23, 2011 6:08 pm

GreecePwns wrote:I forgot the part where BBS was a liberal. Must have missed that.

Also, I forgot the part where there were only 2 political ideologies.


there ARE only two political ideologies. anyone in between is just a wishy washy idiot.

so, is bbs one of the good guys, or one of the bad guys? which team do you think he is on? i want to know, so that i can know whether to respond to his posts with encouraging agreement or derogatory laughter.
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Re: Drug Tests for Welfare Applicants?

Postby GreecePwns on Thu Jun 23, 2011 6:14 pm

john9blue wrote:
GreecePwns wrote:I forgot the part where BBS was a liberal. Must have missed that.

Also, I forgot the part where there were only 2 political ideologies.


there ARE only two political ideologies. anyone in between is just a wishy washy idiot.

so, is bbs one of the good guys, or one of the bad guys? which team do you think he is on? i want to know, so that i can know whether to respond to his posts with encouraging agreement or derogatory laughter.

So where does a Nazi fit on your left/right scale? What about a libertarian? An anarchist? A monarchist? Okay. There's 4 political ideologies right there.

Let's not run around labeling everyone in order to prevent any actual debate, now.
Chariot of Fire wrote:As for GreecePwns.....yeah, what? A massive debt. Get a job you slacker.

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Re: Drug Tests for Welfare Applicants?

Postby john9blue on Thu Jun 23, 2011 6:26 pm

GreecePwns wrote:
john9blue wrote:
GreecePwns wrote:I forgot the part where BBS was a liberal. Must have missed that.

Also, I forgot the part where there were only 2 political ideologies.


there ARE only two political ideologies. anyone in between is just a wishy washy idiot.

so, is bbs one of the good guys, or one of the bad guys? which team do you think he is on? i want to know, so that i can know whether to respond to his posts with encouraging agreement or derogatory laughter.

So where does a Nazi fit on your left/right scale? What about a libertarian? An anarchist? A monarchist? Okay. There's 4 political ideologies right there.

Let's not run around labeling everyone in order to prevent any actual debate, now.


i hate nazis. left
i like libertarians. right
anarchists are weird. left
monarchists suck. left

man that was easy!

so, greece, why are you a nazi?
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Re: Drug Tests for Welfare Applicants?

Postby radiojake on Thu Jun 23, 2011 7:51 pm

john9blue wrote:
GreecePwns wrote:
john9blue wrote:
GreecePwns wrote:I forgot the part where BBS was a liberal. Must have missed that.

Also, I forgot the part where there were only 2 political ideologies.


there ARE only two political ideologies. anyone in between is just a wishy washy idiot.

so, is bbs one of the good guys, or one of the bad guys? which team do you think he is on? i want to know, so that i can know whether to respond to his posts with encouraging agreement or derogatory laughter.

So where does a Nazi fit on your left/right scale? What about a libertarian? An anarchist? A monarchist? Okay. There's 4 political ideologies right there.

Let's not run around labeling everyone in order to prevent any actual debate, now.


i hate nazis. left
i like libertarians. right
anarchists are weird. left
monarchists suck. left

man that was easy!

so, greece, why are you a nazi?


Are you fucking serious, John? - Stuck with media driven binary opposites again -

LEFT RIGHT LEFT RIGHT LEFT RIGHT - Let's all march to the beat of the drum

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Re: Drug Tests for Welfare Applicants?

Postby Army of GOD on Thu Jun 23, 2011 7:55 pm

radiojake wrote:
john9blue wrote:
GreecePwns wrote:
john9blue wrote:
GreecePwns wrote:I forgot the part where BBS was a liberal. Must have missed that.

Also, I forgot the part where there were only 2 political ideologies.


there ARE only two political ideologies. anyone in between is just a wishy washy idiot.

so, is bbs one of the good guys, or one of the bad guys? which team do you think he is on? i want to know, so that i can know whether to respond to his posts with encouraging agreement or derogatory laughter.

So where does a Nazi fit on your left/right scale? What about a libertarian? An anarchist? A monarchist? Okay. There's 4 political ideologies right there.

Let's not run around labeling everyone in order to prevent any actual debate, now.


i hate nazis. left
i like libertarians. right
anarchists are weird. left
monarchists suck. left

man that was easy!

so, greece, why are you a nazi?


Are you fucking serious, John? - Stuck with media driven binary opposites again -

LEFT RIGHT LEFT RIGHT LEFT RIGHT - Let's all march to the beat of the drum

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Do you really think he was serious...?

Also, find your own pics. Saxi used that one like a year ago.
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Re: Drug Tests for Welfare Applicants?

Postby radiojake on Thu Jun 23, 2011 8:10 pm

Army of GOD wrote:
Do you really think he was serious...?

Also, find your own pics. Saxi used that one like a year ago.



But it is such a great picture - how can I not re-use it?

Also, sometimes it's hard to pick up sarcasm - So I guess I thought he was serious.
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Re: Drug Tests for Welfare Applicants?

Postby Woodruff on Thu Jun 23, 2011 8:35 pm

Phatscotty wrote:The deal is that people who are addicted to drugs and have had their lives destroyed by drugs are being enabled to continue the reckless behavior, in this instance.


You keep claiming that anyone who is addicted to drugs has had their life destroyed by drugs. You should try to claw your way out of your ignorance when you get a chance...maybe this link can help you with that:

http://www.runcornandwidnesweeklynews.c ... -27086372/


Phatscotty wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:We want to encourage Independence and liberty.

We don't want to bailout drug addicts with cash.

I don't really want to bail out anyone, but sometimes we have to do what is expedient. Doing otherwise is "cutting of your nose to spite your face".


how is bailing out a drug addict with more cash expedient?


Because it costs less of that tax money you keep whining about.

Night Strike wrote:
Dukasaur wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:The deal is that people who are addicted to drugs and have had their lives destroyed by drugs are being enabled to continue the reckless behavior, in this instance.

And people who are addicted to watching TV and having their lives destroyed by sloth are being enabled to continue their reckless behaviour, and people who are addicted to going down to the local massage parlour and give all their money to the rub-and-tug girls are being enabled to continue their reckless behaviour, and so on, and so on, and so on....

This is the point you've completely avoided from the opening bell... why are you obsessing about cutting people off for doing drugs and not for doing a thousand and one other idiotic self-destructive behaviours?


Because doing drugs is illegal. When you give a blank check to people, the least you can do is make sure they aren't spending it on illegal activities. Just because those other things are stupid for people on welfare to be doing doesn't mean they are illegal.

It's pretty sad that the current line of reasoning against this policy is that A) We can't do it because we aren't doing it to other people and B) We can't do it because people are doing other unhealthy things. What ever happened to stopping ILLEGAL activities?


Why don't you care about the illegal activities when it involves OTHERS who are recieving that "blank government check".

Phatscotty wrote:
Night Strike wrote:
Dukasaur wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:The deal is that people who are addicted to drugs and have had their lives destroyed by drugs are being enabled to continue the reckless behavior, in this instance.

And people who are addicted to watching TV and having their lives destroyed by sloth are being enabled to continue their reckless behaviour, and people who are addicted to going down to the local massage parlour and give all their money to the rub-and-tug girls are being enabled to continue their reckless behaviour, and so on, and so on, and so on....

This is the point you've completely avoided from the opening bell... why are you obsessing about cutting people off for doing drugs and not for doing a thousand and one other idiotic self-destructive behaviours?


Because doing drugs is illegal. When you give a blank check to people, the least you can do is make sure they aren't spending it on illegal activities. Just because those other things are stupid for people on welfare to be doing doesn't mean they are illegal.

It's pretty sad that the current line of reasoning against this policy is that A) We can't do it because we aren't doing it to other people and B) We can't do it because people are doing other unhealthy things. What ever happened to stopping ILLEGAL activities?


Nobody who does not have a serious drug problem will be hurt. Please join me in understanding that drug addicts on welfare are thepeople who need help the most.


You keep claiming that taking more taxes hurts people. You keep claiming that you believe that freedom is more important than governmental control. Yet you keep holding to this position that goes against both of those claims.

john9blue wrote:
Night Strike wrote:Just because I don't think like you doesn't mean I automatically don't think.


yes it does.

liberals are all smart, and all smart people agree with each other on every aspect of politics, so if you are conservative you are dumb. qed


BigBallinStalin is a liberal? Geez, I WAS gone a long time.
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Re: Drug Tests for Welfare Applicants?

Postby Phatscotty on Thu Jun 23, 2011 9:06 pm

radiojake wrote:
Army of GOD wrote:
Do you really think he was serious...?

Also, find your own pics. Saxi used that one like a year ago.



But it is such a great picture - how can I not re-use it?

Also, sometimes it's hard to pick up sarcasm - So I guess I thought he was serious.


Its not nearly as much about republicans vs. democrats as it is about makers vs. takers.

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Re: Drug Tests for Welfare Applicants?

Postby Woodruff on Thu Jun 23, 2011 9:35 pm

Phatscotty wrote:
radiojake wrote:
Army of GOD wrote:
Do you really think he was serious...?

Also, find your own pics. Saxi used that one like a year ago.



But it is such a great picture - how can I not re-use it?

Also, sometimes it's hard to pick up sarcasm - So I guess I thought he was serious.


Its not nearly as much about republicans vs. democrats as it is about makers vs. takers.


Yet in the case of this situation, it is those who are in favor of the drug testing who are the "takers" as they take your tax money and spend it in a fiscally untenable way.
Last edited by Woodruff on Thu Jun 23, 2011 9:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Drug Tests for Welfare Applicants?

Postby bedub1 on Thu Jun 23, 2011 9:41 pm

Only 19 votes overs 35 pages? I declare this place DEAD.
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Re: Drug Tests for Welfare Applicants?

Postby notyou2 on Thu Jun 23, 2011 9:41 pm

scotty keeps erasing it
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Re: Drug Tests for Welfare Applicants?

Postby Phatscotty on Thu Jun 23, 2011 10:02 pm

Woodruff wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
radiojake wrote:
Army of GOD wrote:
Do you really think he was serious...?

Also, find your own pics. Saxi used that one like a year ago.



But it is such a great picture - how can I not re-use it?

Also, sometimes it's hard to pick up sarcasm - So I guess I thought he was serious.


Its not nearly as much about republicans vs. democrats as it is about makers vs. takers.


Yet in the case of this situation, it is those who are in favor of the drug testing who are the "takers" as they take your tax money and spend it in a fiscally untenable way.


Couldn't be more fickle. The people who abuse welfare getting kicked off it will far outweigh a 5$ test. :roll: :roll:
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Re: Drug Tests for Welfare Applicants?

Postby Phatscotty on Thu Jun 23, 2011 10:02 pm

bedub1 wrote:Only 19 votes overs 35 pages? I declare this place DEAD.


I reset the poll. It ws over 50 votes (28 for drug tests, 22 for 0 responsibility whatsoever)
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Re: Drug Tests for Welfare Applicants?

Postby Symmetry on Thu Jun 23, 2011 11:29 pm

Phatscotty wrote:
bedub1 wrote:Only 19 votes overs 35 pages? I declare this place DEAD.


I reset the poll. It ws over 50 votes (28 for drug tests, 22 for 0 responsibility whatsoever)


Considering that recently a fair part of this discussion has been about drug tests for other recipients of government money, you should think about adding an option for:

"Sure, but only if bankers have mandatory drug tests too"
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