CLUE Mafia- Mafia Win!!!! MVP- Rodion

[safariguy5]

A quick clarification/question.

Given that we had a night 0 (dunno if Sully can make a recruiting attempt then or not) and Com9 died during night 1, (may have just been recruited) and he flipped third party/town, is it a possibility that Sully did try to recruit him?

Because if Sully did, then that would basically confirm his claim and make cutting a deal with mafia a valid option.

[Victor Sullivan]

I got no such recruitment action Night 0.

-Sully

[Rodion]

I have some questions.

1 - Did your group kill Pyrhhus or Commander on N1?
2 - Who did your group target on N2? Do you have a clue why there was no kill (a roleblock message, for instance)?
3 - What about N0? Did your group have anything to do with the NPC death or with Edoc's attempted murder?
4 - Did the mods give you the Ms. Silver fakeclaim? If fakeclaims were given, why didn't Lala use one?
5 - How big is your mafia? 3/4/5/6?
6 - Can you confirm the existence of a Mr. Boddy?

7 - Are there any cellar cards your group kept under their sleeves?

[safariguy5]

I got no such recruitment action Night 0.

-Sully

Did you try to recruit Com9 Night 1 then?

[Victor Sullivan]

I got no such recruitment action Night 0.

-Sully

Did you try to recruit Com9 Night 1 then?

No, got tonkaed. I originally denied it due to the fact that I thought going public with it would essentially forfeit my being able to convince mafia to join the group. After he was modkilled, there became benefits to recruiting town (the additional investigations), so I told edocsil about it Night 2 then recruited him.

-Sully

[freezie]

I have some questions.

1 - Did your group kill Pyrhhus or Commander on N1?
2 - Who did your group target on N2? Do you have a clue why there was no kill (a roleblock message, for instance)?
3 - What about N0? Did your group have anything to do with the NPC death or with Edoc's attempted murder?
4 - Did the mods give you the Ms. Silver fakeclaim? If fakeclaims were given, why didn't Lala use one?
5 - How big is your mafia? 3/4/5/6?
6 - Can you confirm the existence of a Mr. Boddy?

1- Neither.
4- We were given no fakleclaims.
6- I can not.

Rest will be answered as soon as I am recruited.

[freezie]

Oh and Vote: target

I can say this: He is definitly not in my mafia, but could be any'boddy' else (:P) in another mafia, and like everyone, I don't trust him.

[/]

Screw this, I am gambling.

I am Miss scarlet, Mafia. Lala was with me, Gt was NOT in my mafia, so there is 2 groups, or one group and a few loners.

I wish to be recruited tonight.

If you guys lied and you kill me, I'll be pissed....as much as edoc in POTC ( I tried edoc..I really did..)

"Ha, page 37, nailed it." said Sergeant Grey as he was uhh.... reading a book...
"Well, it doesn't matter to me what the Chief does with these criminals." Gery puts away his novel. "I suppose we can put to rest the mystery of the cook now, or we can check Gold's pulse and see if can bury him yet..." He said glaring at his notepad's player guest list

Vote Targetman

[targetman377]

now i have not played a lot of mafia games but i find it highly unlikely that there is potential in this game for everyone to win. What would we be playing for? well and why was it not said early? well. I just find this whole story you guys are putting out there to be fishy. But seeing as how cause whatever i say you will not believe also he may get investigation but i still see vc has the real threat to town.
Reason is simple

If you are a cult recruiter and the person has the choice to deny it why would you not? meaning if you where town you would never pick to do this so the cult recruiter could never win.

also does anyone find it funny how vc was cleared by mafia?? now why in the world would lala do that? only if the where aligned together! meaning vc is mafia that can recruit. Seeing as how no one has thought of this yet? Yeah and as already stated by the Mods that you where given the power to investage 2 people in order to make up for the fact that Tonked put information out that should not have been out. This is a way to balance that out.

so now i UNVOTE Edic and go staright to the source VOTE VICTOR

[Victor Sullivan]

Clearly target does not have the town's best interest... vote targetman

-Sully

[freezie]

I can confirm Lala did not lie about her cellar card. She told me that she had the chief as innocent before announcing to town.

And if Lala has no reasons to do that, what reason would I have to CLAIM MAFIA.

Target has been outed it seems

[Rodion]

Target is not as suspicious as you're all saying. The source of his suspiciousness was based on his weak claim and the fact that his existence was not confirmed by a card. As far as I'm concerned, that suspiciousness toned down when one of the flavour scenes showed that there is a cook besides Ms. Ho.

Yoshi did bring a valid point concerning the mods possibly helping mafia with fakeclaims and, if correct, that theory would place Target back into a top 3 scummy list. I did ask Yoshi to elaborate because, while interesting, the theory had some roles, such as Lalaland not using her fakeclaim and getting rightfully lynched. Edocsil was quick to state that it was "completely obvious" that mafia was given fakeclaims, but that still does not explain why Lalaland didn't user hers, nor is that compatible to Freezie saying that she came up with Ms. Silver fakeclaim herself.

Summary: considering Target suspicious depends on the theory that the mods were helping with fakeclaims (and inserting those very fakeclaims into flavour scenes), but that theory, while possible, is not accounting for some things so far.

Let me note also note that, after his wagon, Target's last post had some weird speculation and that can be a sign of scuminess (or despair, or both).

However, right now, everything I speculated about Target's alignment is irrelevant. Target could claim Antichrist and I'd still go against the idea of lynching him.

Why?

If Victor is as powerful as Edocsil claimed him to be, town's victory should be secured. Period. Think of it this way: if you're mafia and you're already debilitated and there is a big list of confirmed townies that will not be mislynched, what are you going to do? Resign from nightkilling and patiently wait for Victor to bail you out of your uncomfortable position is the right answer. Mafia(s) have no reason to kill Victor if he is town, as he is their passport to a win.

At this point, the only thing that needs to be confirmed is the truthfulness of the claim. I believe lynching Edocsil is the best way to go and here's why.

Edocsil will either flip town or non-town. If he flips town, we assume everything he sais to be true and mafia consequently has to default to no NKs and patiently wait for the mass conversion. If he flips non-town, we out the possible cult recruiter before it is too late. Seems like a win/win for town.

[gimli1990]

i do agree with Rodian here that it seems like a win/win for town but i also think there has got to be something here because i have not played many mafia games but it seems to easy for town to win.

[safariguy5]

i do agree with Rodian here that it seems like a win/win for town but i also think there has got to be something here because i have not played many mafia games but it seems to easy for town to win.

Certain setups tend to favor one side. It may be a balancing issue or just a mechanics issue, but as this game has very different mechanics from a normal game, it could just happen to be structured that way.

Although it does seem a bit bastard modding to put fingerprints on weapons that would be fake.

That brings up a good point, has anyone seen any cook's fingerprints on any weapons? Same goes for Ms. Silver I suppose. And any other fakeclaims out there.

I've seen Mr. Gold, but that's about it.

[edocsil]

Target is not as suspicious as you're all saying. The source of his suspiciousness was based on his weak claim and the fact that his existence was not confirmed by a card. As far as I'm concerned, that suspiciousness toned down when one of the flavour scenes showed that there is a cook besides Ms. Ho.

Yoshi did bring a valid point concerning the mods possibly helping mafia with fakeclaims and, if correct, that theory would place Target back into a top 3 scummy list. I did ask Yoshi to elaborate because, while interesting, the theory had some roles, such as Lalaland not using her fakeclaim and getting rightfully lynched. Edocsil was quick to state that it was "completely obvious" that mafia was given fakeclaims, but that still does not explain why Lalaland didn't user hers, nor is that compatible to Freezie saying that she came up with Ms. Silver fakeclaim herself.

Summary: considering Target suspicious depends on the theory that the mods were helping with fakeclaims (and inserting those very fakeclaims into flavour scenes), but that theory, while possible, is not accounting for some things so far.

Let me note also note that, after his wagon, Target's last post had some weird speculation and that can be a sign of scuminess (or despair, or both).

However, right now, everything I speculated about Target's alignment is irrelevant. Target could claim Antichrist and I'd still go against the idea of lynching him.

Why?

If Victor is as powerful as Edocsil claimed him to be, town's victory should be secured. Period. Think of it this way: if you're mafia and you're already debilitated and there is a big list of confirmed townies that will not be mislynched, what are you going to do? Resign from nightkilling and patiently wait for Victor to bail you out of your uncomfortable position is the right answer. Mafia(s) have no reason to kill Victor if he is town, as he is their passport to a win.

At this point, the only thing that needs to be confirmed is the truthfulness of the claim. I believe lynching Edocsil is the best way to go and here's why.

Edocsil will either flip town or non-town. If he flips town, we assume everything he sais to be true and mafia consequently has to default to no NKs and patiently wait for the mass conversion. If he flips non-town, we out the possible cult recruiter before it is too late. Seems like a win/win for town.

Lol, how bought no. You hang me and then kill victor, and then you do away with the town masons. That argument is fairly transparent showing that for one reason or another you would rather not have a town power group. How is this for an idea. Join us. Many of the others think we are town as we claim, you would be able to see it for truth tonight if you wanted.

[edocsil]

Oh and unvote vote target. Reasons are obvious.

[Victor Sullivan]

Not to mention, Rodion, that both edocsil and I can recruit masons. So if there's another that would like to be recruited, feel free to speak up.

-Sully

[F1fth]

Hey folks, sorry for the long hiatus. I haven't had a reliable connection to the internet for a while, but I should be around now.

Seems like a lot has gone on while I've been away. We have freezie claiming scum, Victor/edoc confirmed as either a cult or mason(ry?... group?), and the bandwagon on target.

Now, as I've said earlier, I'm pretty sure that target is scum and have no qualms with his lynch, however, I am uncertain about leaving a possible cult to their own devices. They could very easily be a cult that's balanced in this smallish game by allowing the opportunity to refuse.

As Rodion has suggested, I'd really like to test their claim by lynching either Victor or edoc, especially since apparently any member can recruit and it's likely that freezie will be recruited tonight as well. That way we won't have an out of control cult on our hands if it turns out they were making a clever play.

I don't think we have anything to fear from the mafia at this point. They're pretty beaten down.

[edocsil]

Hey folks, sorry for the long hiatus. I haven't had a reliable connection to the internet for a while, but I should be around now.

Seems like a lot has gone on while I've been away. We have freezie claiming scum, Victor/edoc confirmed as either a cult or mason(ry?... group?), and the bandwagon on target.

Now, as I've said earlier, I'm pretty sure that target is scum and have no qualms with his lynch, however, I am uncertain about leaving a possible cult to their own devices. They could very easily be a cult that's balanced in this smallish game by allowing the opportunity to refuse.

As Rodion has suggested, I'd really like to test their claim by lynching either Victor or edoc, especially since apparently any member can recruit and it's likely that freezie will be recruited tonight as well. That way we won't have an out of control cult on our hands if it turns out they were making a clever play.

I don't think we have anything to fear from the mafia at this point. They're pretty beaten down.

Look. Calling use a cult is like trying to compare apples and oranges.

Cult
Members cannot talk
Scum can usually not be recruited
Cult leader is the only one who can recruit
Recruitment is not optional

Mason
Members can talk
Anyone can be recruited
Joining techniques are varied, ours allows rapid expansion of forces with the know caveat of deniable recruitment


So how does it make sense to call us cult?

[Victor Sullivan]

I thought cult members could talk

-Sully

[edocsil]

I thought cult members could talk

-Sully

Not in one that I have ever been. Certainly not in a vanilla cult, though mods may do as the please. You couldn't talk in the POTC one could you?

[Victor Sullivan]

Would you believe I still have my role PM?

You are Davy Jones, Cult Recruiter.

Each night you may target someone to recruit to your cult. They will lose all night abilities and become a cult goon.

You currently have 1 Cult goon, Bootstrap Bill (got tonkaed). You may communicate with all of your goons at night.

You win when Cult is the last remaining faction.

Alternate Win Condition.
You win if you recruit Jack Sparrow. You do not need to survive until the end of the game if this happens.

-Sully

[edocsil]

But sully, you never talked to me! I stand corrected on that point, but still, that is against the norm

[VioIet]

Vote Count


Edoc (1)- dazey
Anark (1)- Rodion
target(6)- safari, doomyoshi, freezie, /, victor, edoc
Victor (1) - target

With 17 alive, it takes 8 to lynch

[F1fth]

Edoc, as you've noted, the nature of your group is a bit unusual for a cult, however, it is no more unusual than it is for a mason group.

But I'm not calling anyone anything. All I'm saying is that a cult is a possibility. And it's a rather unpleasant possibility that has a chance of losing town the game.

Here's my envisioned worst case scenario of each option:
1. We leave the masons alone. They are actually a cult and in the time that we spent weeding out the last of the mafia they have gotten an nigh unstoppable foothold on the town. Town loses.

2. We lynch one of the masons who turns out to have been telling the truth. The second mason gets daykilled because we didn't have a doctor or we did and he was busy being dumb somewhere. We lose our mason group.

Option 2 requires a bunch of crap to go wrong for town, including a mafia that would rather lose as scum then win as converted town, and it's still the more favorable outcome!

As I've said earlier, I don't mind lynching target. I just want us to consider threats to the town in order of importance. That said, if we still decide to go with target I have some suggestions of you masons that I want to make clear:
-You should only recruit one person tonight, freezie
-You should only recruit people that the majority of town agree on
-If someone else is given a recruit invitation, decline and make this public ASAP
-If any of you are found breaking these rules, you should be considered cult for all intents and purposes

Do these conditions sound reasonable? I'm open to discussion on this of course.