Conquer Club

ObamaCare - exchanges ,report your states options!

\\OFF-TOPIC// conversations about everything that has nothing to do with Conquer Club.

Moderator: Community Team

Forum rules
Please read the Community Guidelines before posting.

Re: Socialized Healthcare: New Round of Waivers (AARP!)

Postby PLAYER57832 on Fri Jun 24, 2011 11:38 pm

Woodruff wrote:
Night Strike wrote:You don't get it. The individual payments would NOT be administered! The whole point is removing the administration and letting people help people. If I see a person in need, I donate either to that person or to a non-profit organization that directly helps that person. These organizations almost always use their money to get the most bang for their buck; to help the most people with as few dollars as possible.


Do some research into charities...you'll be surprised. During my time in the military, there was an annual campaign that happened where a boatload of charities came to the military (and probably others, for all I know) asking for donations. You'd get a booklet of all the charities, and it included all of the percentages of where the money went. Most did fairly poorly with the money, and some were truly miserable (as in less than 50% actually being put to use toward the charitized individuals/research).

There are a few that do really well. But they are very few.

Probably the same as the one for other federal employees. I remember some had as much as 80% going toward administration. Then there were the outright frauds, often name very similar to real programs. And those approved for the federal employee list were supposed to be somewhat "vetted" (for veracity, not the cause).

A "good" charity is one that keeps its administration to under 25%. However, you also have groups like Oxfam that show a high adminstration cost because their whole purpose is education and essentially administration of other programs, not passing out dollars. So.. you have to do some checking, always.
Corporal PLAYER57832
 
Posts: 3085
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 9:17 am
Location: Pennsylvania

Re: Socialized Healthcare: Last Call for Waivers!

Postby Phatscotty on Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:46 pm

Dont forget, you hopefully found a way to generate funds for charity and create a few jobs in the process. Right there you gotta pay every employees health insurance. You have to pay accountants and lawyers to deal with the IRS, cuz the IRS is up the ass of anything "charity". And you have to match social security contributions.

If you run an office or have telephones, right there you got heating bills, electricity, water, garbage, sewage, internetz, maintenance etc + taxes

and then you have to get licenses to operate and hire specialized agents to deal with the mountain of forms that nobody really knows what it means except for that person and the IRS, and you probably have to get bonded and insured. And you have to pay unemploymant insurance, medicare, medicaid taxes . sales taxes, not to mention various transportation duties, fees, maintenance etc.

Really, how much is left for charity? not much
User avatar
Major Phatscotty
 
Posts: 3714
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:50 pm

Re: Socialized Healthcare: Last Call for Waivers!

Postby Woodruff on Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:09 am

Phatscotty wrote:You have to pay accountants and lawyers to deal with the IRS, cuz the IRS is up the ass of anything "charity".


If only that were true. But, as usual with you, it's not. And some charities manage to be EXTREMELY well able to avoid all of that overhead...I guess they're just lucky?

Phatscotty wrote:Really, how much is left for charity? not much


Then you have the churches that are allegedly non-profit yet bring in millions of dollars per year. Yet the IRS somehow avoids those.
...I prefer a man who will burn the flag and then wrap himself in the Constitution to a man who will burn the Constitution and then wrap himself in the flag.
User avatar
Corporal 1st Class Woodruff
 
Posts: 5093
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 9:15 am

Re: Socialized Healthcare: Last Call for Waivers!

Postby Phatscotty on Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:13 am

Woodruff wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:You have to pay accountants and lawyers to deal with the IRS, cuz the IRS is up the ass of anything "charity".


If only that were true. But, as usual with you, it's not. And some charities manage to be EXTREMELY well able to avoid all of that overhead...I guess they're just lucky?


Oh yeah, I almost forgot. They just take charities words for it...

Charities are easy to loot sometimes, and everything revolves around receipts. The IRS is very thorough.
User avatar
Major Phatscotty
 
Posts: 3714
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:50 pm

Re: Socialized Healthcare: Last Call for Waivers!

Postby Woodruff on Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:16 am

Phatscotty wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:You have to pay accountants and lawyers to deal with the IRS, cuz the IRS is up the ass of anything "charity".


If only that were true. But, as usual with you, it's not. And some charities manage to be EXTREMELY well able to avoid all of that overhead...I guess they're just lucky?


Oh yeah, I almost forgot. They just take charities words for it...
Charities are easy to loot sometimes, and everything revolves around receipts. The IRS is very thorough.


They just take the charities words for it? Who is "they"? Do you have even a basic understanding of what I'm talking about? I don't believe you do. The IRS is the ones that declare the percentages each of the various charities are spending on overhead/administration in the program I've been referring to, so you're at the same time saying they are very thorough while claiming they are not very thorough.
...I prefer a man who will burn the flag and then wrap himself in the Constitution to a man who will burn the Constitution and then wrap himself in the flag.
User avatar
Corporal 1st Class Woodruff
 
Posts: 5093
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 9:15 am

Re: Socialized Healthcare: Last Call for Waivers!

Postby PLAYER57832 on Wed Jun 29, 2011 8:21 am

Phatscotty wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:You have to pay accountants and lawyers to deal with the IRS, cuz the IRS is up the ass of anything "charity".


If only that were true. But, as usual with you, it's not. And some charities manage to be EXTREMELY well able to avoid all of that overhead...I guess they're just lucky?


Oh yeah, I almost forgot. They just take charities words for it...

Charities are easy to loot sometimes, and everything revolves around receipts. The IRS is very thorough.

No, these things are periodically verified by many independent groups.

here are a couple of links:
http://www.associatedcontent.com/articl ... arity.html (begins with Better Business Bureau)

http://charitywatch.org/tips.html

You can google some others if you truly wish to pursue this. :roll:


The list that I referred to earlier was specific to the Federal government employee program whereby federal employees can automatically have money deducted from their paychecks to various charities. Many companies have similar programs, though often only for specific groups the company heads "like". In this case, because it is government employees, the list is very large and diverse.
Corporal PLAYER57832
 
Posts: 3085
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 9:17 am
Location: Pennsylvania

Re: Socialized Healthcare: Last Call for Waivers!

Postby Phatscotty on Sat Jul 02, 2011 5:48 pm

Some lady here in MN just called into a radio talk show about the shut down, and is complaining that instead of getting her food from a gov't food shelf, she now has to go to a private charity food shelf.

Note, she is still getting free food. Her main problem was that she had to deal with what our community gives freely as opposed to what the gov't steals from workers.
User avatar
Major Phatscotty
 
Posts: 3714
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:50 pm

Re: Socialized Healthcare: Last Call for Waivers!

Postby PLAYER57832 on Sat Jul 02, 2011 6:18 pm

Woodruff wrote:
Then you have the churches that are allegedly non-profit yet bring in millions of dollars per year. Yet the IRS somehow avoids those.

They do get away with a lot, but I can remember when the Crystal cathedral was brought into court on just this charge. I believe they wound up changing how they did things (had to seperate some of the very profitable sections like concerts), but did wind up winning.
Corporal PLAYER57832
 
Posts: 3085
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 9:17 am
Location: Pennsylvania

Re: Socialized Healthcare: Last Call for Waivers!

Postby BigBallinStalin on Sat Jul 02, 2011 7:49 pm

Phatscotty wrote:Some lady here in MN just called into a radio talk show about the shut down, and is complaining that instead of getting her food from a gov't food shelf, she now has to go to a private charity food shelf.

Note, she is still getting free food. Her main problem was that she had to deal with what our community gives freely as opposed to what the gov't steals from workers.


What a sensational story provided by your right-wing media source.

Tell me, is your political stance primarily your own or has it been cultivated from external sources?
User avatar
Major BigBallinStalin
 
Posts: 5151
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:23 pm
Location: crying into the dregs of an empty bottle of own-brand scotch on the toilet having a dump in Dagenham

Re: Socialized Healthcare: Last Call for Waivers!

Postby Phatscotty on Sat Jul 02, 2011 7:54 pm

BigBallinStalin wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:Some lady here in MN just called into a radio talk show about the shut down, and is complaining that instead of getting her food from a gov't food shelf, she now has to go to a private charity food shelf.

Note, she is still getting free food. Her main problem was that she had to deal with what our community gives freely as opposed to what the gov't steals from workers.


What a sensational story provided by your right-wing media source.

Tell me, is your political stance primarily your own or has it been cultivated from external sources?


No, just something I heard and passed on. I didn't add anything to it.

Why do you think that is my story rather than the woman's story?
User avatar
Major Phatscotty
 
Posts: 3714
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:50 pm

Re: Socialized Healthcare: Last Call for Waivers!

Postby BigBallinStalin on Sat Jul 02, 2011 8:17 pm

Phatscotty wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:Some lady here in MN just called into a radio talk show about the shut down, and is complaining that instead of getting her food from a gov't food shelf, she now has to go to a private charity food shelf.

Note, she is still getting free food. Her main problem was that she had to deal with what our community gives freely as opposed to what the gov't steals from workers.


What a sensational story provided by your right-wing media source.

Tell me, is your political stance primarily your own or has it been cultivated from external sources?


No, just something I heard and passed on. I didn't add anything to it.

Why do you think that is my story rather than the woman's story?


Troll on or answer the questions:

1) Is your political stance primarily your own?

2) Has it been cultivated from external sources?
User avatar
Major BigBallinStalin
 
Posts: 5151
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:23 pm
Location: crying into the dregs of an empty bottle of own-brand scotch on the toilet having a dump in Dagenham

Re: Socialized Healthcare: Last Call for Waivers!

Postby PLAYER57832 on Sat Jul 02, 2011 10:28 pm

Phatscotty wrote:Some lady here in MN just called into a radio talk show about the shut down, and is complaining that instead of getting her food from a gov't food shelf, she now has to go to a private charity food shelf.

Note, she is still getting free food. Her main problem was that she had to deal with what our community gives freely as opposed to what the gov't steals from workers.

You apparently have NO idea that the food surplus program results from government subsidies being used instead of just being stockpiled.

Collecting the food came first. Reagan began the move to open it up to people to use.

Oh, and there is a good chance that "private" food shelf is getting subsidies.

but carry on.... why should you bother to check out this fact any more than previous ones?
Last edited by PLAYER57832 on Sun Jul 03, 2011 8:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
Corporal PLAYER57832
 
Posts: 3085
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 9:17 am
Location: Pennsylvania

Re: Socialized Healthcare: New Round of Waivers (AARP!)

Postby Dukasaur on Sun Jul 03, 2011 4:27 am

PLAYER57832 wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
Night Strike wrote:You don't get it. The individual payments would NOT be administered! The whole point is removing the administration and letting people help people. If I see a person in need, I donate either to that person or to a non-profit organization that directly helps that person. These organizations almost always use their money to get the most bang for their buck; to help the most people with as few dollars as possible.


Do some research into charities...you'll be surprised. During my time in the military, there was an annual campaign that happened where a boatload of charities came to the military (and probably others, for all I know) asking for donations. You'd get a booklet of all the charities, and it included all of the percentages of where the money went. Most did fairly poorly with the money, and some were truly miserable (as in less than 50% actually being put to use toward the charitized individuals/research).

There are a few that do really well. But they are very few.

Probably the same as the one for other federal employees. I remember some had as much as 80% going toward administration. Then there were the outright frauds, often name very similar to real programs. And those approved for the federal employee list were supposed to be somewhat "vetted" (for veracity, not the cause).


While there are the outright frauds and scams, most independent charities still do somewhat better than 50%, which compares pretty well to the government that loses almost 70% to administration costs.
ā€œā€ŽLife is a shipwreck, but we must not forget to sing in the lifeboats.ā€
― Voltaire
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class Dukasaur
Community Team
Community Team
 
Posts: 28090
Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 4:49 pm
Location: Beautiful Niagara
32

Re: Socialized Healthcare: New Round of Waivers (AARP!)

Postby PLAYER57832 on Sun Jul 03, 2011 8:47 am

Dukasaur wrote: While there are the outright frauds and scams, most independent charities still do somewhat better than 50%, which compares pretty well to the government that loses almost 70% to administration costs.

hmm.. that couldn't be be because the government's job is to govern... otherwise known as "administration" :roll: .
Corporal PLAYER57832
 
Posts: 3085
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 9:17 am
Location: Pennsylvania

Re: Socialized Healthcare: New Round of Waivers (AARP!)

Postby Dukasaur on Sun Jul 03, 2011 11:19 am

PLAYER57832 wrote:
Dukasaur wrote: While there are the outright frauds and scams, most independent charities still do somewhat better than 50%, which compares pretty well to the government that loses almost 70% to administration costs.

hmm.. that couldn't be be because the government's job is to govern... otherwise known as "administration" :roll: .

Don't play games. If the only thing they wanted to do was to "govern" (ie. play referee and provide impartial rules for others to follow) then they could do that with 1% of their budget. Maybe 0.5%. The reason governments have swollen to their gargantuan size is because they want to do a lot more than govern. They've taken it into their head that they need to be involved in anything and everything.
But you were talking about charities, and there's a lot of government that you really can't compare to a charity. I wasn't talking about military misadventures overseas, or about the roads, or about counting picograms of plutonium downstream of nuclear plants. The only government organs that you can compare to charity are health and welfare. These programs are not about government at all: in fact, the only governing functions in their purview (such as disciplining doctors, for instance) are farmed out to professional associations and not done by the government itself. These programs exist solely to hand out money to recipients, and the fact that they manage to have so much bureaucratic bloat that only 30% of their budgets reaches the recipients is ridiculous.
ā€œā€ŽLife is a shipwreck, but we must not forget to sing in the lifeboats.ā€
― Voltaire
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class Dukasaur
Community Team
Community Team
 
Posts: 28090
Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 4:49 pm
Location: Beautiful Niagara
32

Re: Socialized Healthcare: Last Call for Waivers!

Postby Phatscotty on Tue Jul 26, 2011 9:44 pm

Ohio Fall Ballot Cleared: Voters to Decide if State Opts Out of ObamaCare

COLUMBUS, Ohio (The Blaze/AP) — Voters will get the chance to decide whether Ohio can opt out of the national health care overhaul after the state’s top election official said Tuesday that opponents of the federal law have enough signatures to put a constitutional amendment on the Nov. 8 ballot.

Secretary of State Jon Husted determined that supporters of the amendment, which would prohibit Ohio from participating in the federal Affordable Care Act, had gathered 427,000 valid signatures. They had submitted more than 546,000 and needed roughly 358,000 of them validated to make it on to the ballot.


http://www.theblaze.com/stories/ohio-fa ... obamacare/
User avatar
Major Phatscotty
 
Posts: 3714
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:50 pm

Re: Socialized Healthcare: Ohio Can Vote to Opt Out

Postby PLAYER57832 on Wed Jul 27, 2011 2:15 pm

Yes.. so instead of managed care for all, we get managed care designed by insurance companies to cover primarily healthy people.

Of course, in those "non opt out" states, insurance companies will have to cover sick and disabled kids immediately.. everyone else in 2012.


You would have them all thrust on the streets or the emergency rooms.
sorry, we can do MUCH better than that in the wealthiest nation on earth.
Corporal PLAYER57832
 
Posts: 3085
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 9:17 am
Location: Pennsylvania

Re: Socialized Healthcare: Ohio Can Vote to Opt Out

Postby Phatscotty on Wed Jul 27, 2011 4:18 pm

How about we do it democratically first by vote?
User avatar
Major Phatscotty
 
Posts: 3714
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:50 pm

Re: Socialized Healthcare: Ohio Can Vote to Opt Out

Postby Phatscotty on Wed Jul 27, 2011 4:42 pm

PLAYER57832 wrote:Yes.. so instead of managed care for all, we get managed care designed by insurance companies to cover primarily healthy people.

Of course, in those "non opt out" states, insurance companies will have to cover sick and disabled kids immediately.. everyone else in 2012.


You would have them all thrust on the streets or the emergency rooms.
sorry, we can do MUCH better than that in the wealthiest nation on earth.


the wealthiest nation that might not even be able to pay half its bills come next week? You are pushing way too far, way to hard. We are facing default, and you demand hundreds of billions more.

I gotta call out a greedy person when I see it.
User avatar
Major Phatscotty
 
Posts: 3714
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:50 pm

Re: Socialized Healthcare: Ohio Can Vote to Opt Out

Postby PLAYER57832 on Wed Jul 27, 2011 4:56 pm

Phatscotty wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:Yes.. so instead of managed care for all, we get managed care designed by insurance companies to cover primarily healthy people.

Of course, in those "non opt out" states, insurance companies will have to cover sick and disabled kids immediately.. everyone else in 2012.


You would have them all thrust on the streets or the emergency rooms.
sorry, we can do MUCH better than that in the wealthiest nation on earth.


the wealthiest nation that might not even be able to pay half its bills come next week? You are pushing way too far, way to hard. We are facing default, and you demand hundreds of billions more. .

No, I am saying we pay the government and get more for our money than insurance companies currently provide. I have said elsewhere that we need limits on health coverage, but you were among those declaring no such thing should be done.
Corporal PLAYER57832
 
Posts: 3085
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 9:17 am
Location: Pennsylvania

Re: Socialized Healthcare: Ohio Can Vote to Opt Out

Postby Phatscotty on Wed Jul 27, 2011 4:58 pm

how does gov't do in waste, compared to insurance companies?
User avatar
Major Phatscotty
 
Posts: 3714
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:50 pm

Re: Socialized Healthcare: Ohio Can Vote to Opt Out

Postby PLAYER57832 on Wed Jul 27, 2011 5:00 pm

Phatscotty wrote:how does gov't do in waste, compared to insurance companies?

Wrong question. Waste is roughly equal, but insurance companies have HUGE overhead.. they just call it "profit". Insurance companies are why the average doctor's office has to have 8 people just to fill out paperwork.
Corporal PLAYER57832
 
Posts: 3085
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 9:17 am
Location: Pennsylvania

Re: Socialized Healthcare: Ohio Can Vote to Opt Out

Postby Phatscotty on Wed Jul 27, 2011 5:34 pm

PLAYER57832 wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:how does gov't do in waste, compared to insurance companies?

Wrong question. Waste is roughly equal, but insurance companies have HUGE overhead.. they just call it "profit". Insurance companies are why the average doctor's office has to have 8 people just to fill out paperwork.


waste is equal? then are you saying profit is waste?

and sure, 8 people just for paperwork has nothing to do with medicare or medicaid or state aid insurance or disability or unemployment. nothing at all
User avatar
Major Phatscotty
 
Posts: 3714
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:50 pm

Re: Socialized Healthcare: Ohio Can Vote to Opt Out

Postby PLAYER57832 on Wed Jul 27, 2011 7:53 pm

Phatscotty wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:how does gov't do in waste, compared to insurance companies?

Wrong question. Waste is roughly equal, but insurance companies have HUGE overhead.. they just call it "profit". Insurance companies are why the average doctor's office has to have 8 people just to fill out paperwork.


waste is equal?
roughly, as it pertains to this context.
Phatscotty wrote: then are you saying profit is waste?
Profit takes away from care of people in this case, so yes.
Phatscotty wrote:and sure, 8 people just for paperwork has nothing to do with medicare or medicaid or state aid insurance or disability or unemployment. nothing at all

Not really, no.
Corporal PLAYER57832
 
Posts: 3085
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 9:17 am
Location: Pennsylvania

Re: Socialized Healthcare: Ohio Can Vote to Opt Out

Postby Phatscotty on Wed Jul 27, 2011 11:52 pm

without profit, how can you hire another employee? pay taxes? pay an electric/heating bill? pay rent? add a wing to the building? afford an increase in health insurance premiums or unemployment insurance? Advertise?

???
User avatar
Major Phatscotty
 
Posts: 3714
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:50 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Acceptable Content

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users