US Military Action in Libya?

[General_Tao]

Russian sources indicate that gaddhafi might soon go into exile:

http://www.en.rian.ru/world/20110818/165874123.html

[BigBallinStalin]

Russian sources indicate that gaddhafi might soon go into exile:

http://www.en.rian.ru/world/20110818/165874123.html

A source said the embattled leader is ready to hand over power to Justice Minister Muhammad Alqamoda and go into exile on the condition that NATO immediately ends its military mission in the country.

"A source said..."

Don't underestimate the intelligence community's ability to disseminate misinformation. Sometimes, even subtle lies can turn the tide of a conflict.

[General_Tao]

The most widely respected newspaper in the world today, the Gaurdian, is reporting that Gaddafi's number 2 has defected.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/au ... tion-libya

The rebels just captures Zawiya, which is adjacent to Tripoli. It's pretty much the beggining of the end for Qaddafi.

[BigBallinStalin]

Regardless of the respect a certain paper commands, the Intelligence Community is still great at disseminating information. Such an endeavor is a great way at influencing public opinion to garner support for a possible war, or escalation of a quasi-war-but-not-really-a-war, a.k.a. military intervention.

My main point is that you shouldn't wave a newspaper article around as if it were fact. The truth is largely unknown because the sources are very biased. Typically, such information is given through a country's respective armed forces HQ, or something similar to the Pentagon or Dept. of Defense. Given the history of these types of agencies, it is best to remain skeptical on their "honest facts."

[Qwert]

ha-ha-ha , what western newspaper you can call respected.

[General_Tao]

The Guardian, Le Monde, The Globe and Mail and to a lesser extent, the New York Times are the best newspapers out there. Though BBS' point about newspapers disseminating propaganda to push countries into war was definitely true in the buildup towards the invasion of Iraq (by scum like Judith Miller at the NYT and others).

Are you guys really denying that the rebels have entered Tripoli? Would anyone of you be willing to bet a free CC membership that qaddafi will be deposed within 5 weeks?!?

[saxitoxin]

The most widely respected newspaper in the world today, the Gaurdian

LOL, IIRC Julian Assange would beg to differ.

The rebels just captures Zawiya, which is adjacent to Tripoli. It's pretty much the beggining of the end for Qaddafi.

This thread was started in February. Since February people have been saying, in this thread, "well, looks like it's the beginning of the end ..."

I know the puppet states are lonely and anxiously awaiting a new marionette be added to Uncle Sam's puppet cabinet to join Kuwait, Canada, Ecuador and the others, but, perhaps, it would be a little less melodramatic/hysterical if we actually waited for the end to arrive rather than breathlessly trumpeting it every few weeks, then correcting ourselves and trumpeting it again, then correcting ourselves and trumpeting it again, then correcting ourselves and trumpeting it again, then ...

[saxitoxin]

I heard on the radio three times today as I was motoring about "rebels are attacking Tripoli in coordination with NATO air strikes."

It looks like NATO(US) has just dispensed with any legal fiction of a UN resolution to be the neutral intermediary to "stop attacks on civilians" and are now openly acting as the Benghazi Air Force as their ground troops follows orders from SACEUR (Supreme Allied [US] Command Europe).

Once again, operating under a UN diplomatic cover (which is even cast aside when it becomes too inconvenient), the US simply removes governments it chooses to remove with no basis in international law. If they can do it three times in 10 years without so much as a peep, they can do it to anyone.

Imagine if Canada ever tried to do something that Big Daddy didn't like (like Qaddafi did when he tried to introduce the gold dinar to replace the US dollar in petrol trade in December). Imagine how quickly a "rebel" movement would pop-up overnight in Quebec City; imagine how quickly the UN would authorize the US to "protect civilians"; imagine how quickly a government composed of "Canadians" whom no one had ever heard of and who had spent their entire adult lives living in Virginia - but that western media screamed at anyone who would listen that they were widely respected elders and scholars - would appear declaring themselves a transitional council; imagine how quickly timber and shale contracts would be signed-over to U.S. companies. Imagine ... but not for long ...

First they came for the Serbians,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Serbian.

Then they came for the Iraqis,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't an Iraqi.

Then they came for the Libyans,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Libyan.

Then they came for the Canadians
and there was no one left to speak out.

[Qwert]

yea, NAto(US) forces have job to attack,if Goverment troops "attack" "unarmed Civilians", now you have situation where Goverment troops try to defend, and NATO(US) again attack hem.
That why Russia and China will not back up,and will vetoed any attempt that NATO(US) get legal right from UN to in same way attack Syria. Never trust on NATO(US),because these its group of countries who kill civilians,and nobody get prison for these crimes.
Also i dont belive that if quadafy go down,that peace will come,because with 100 tribes ,i expect begining of TRIBAL WARS.

[General_Tao]

Lol at saxi:

"This thread was started in February. Since February people have been saying, in this thread, "well, looks like it's the beginning of the end ..."

Classic stuff, the rebels have taken the main square in Tripoli. As a fan of qaddafi you don't like it, but at least don't deny the truth. It's no longer the beginning of the end, the regime is going to fall in the next few days. Qaddafi's psychopathic kids are already getting arrested.

qwert, the Assad regime has already killed tens of thousands of innocent syrian civilians. They will not hesitate to kill hundreds of thousands of others in order to stay in power and rule that country. It seems like you view everything from a Serb perspective but things just aren't the same in countries like Syria or Libya. Tito was one million times better than Qaddafi, and Syria has a complex ethnic and geopolitical situation but mostly a very brutal and thuggish regime that's incredibly corrupt and very unpopular with the majority of its people.

[saxitoxin]

Lol at saxi:

"This thread was started in February. Since February people have been saying, in this thread, "well, looks like it's the beginning of the end ..."

Classic stuff, the rebels have taken the main square in Tripoli. As a fan of qaddafi you don't like it, but at least don't deny the truth. It's no longer the beginning of the end, the regime is going to fall in the next few days. Qaddafi's psychopathic kids are already getting arrested.

I don't deny it for a second. It's nothing short of a miracle the tiny Libyan army (Libya spends less, as a percentage of GDP, on their military than Denmark - as cited previously in this thread) has withstood barrage-after-barrage from the United States forces for 6 months. They were destined for defeat but still mounted one of the most heroic defenses in history; it will be remembered on par with the defence of Greece against Nazism. As nation after nation of Europe rolled over and surrendered after 3-to-24 hours resistance before welcoming their Nazi-selected puppet governments - Netherlands, Belgium, Denmark - Greece fought the fascist forces to the bitter end.

Popular rebellions don't need 6 months of aerial bombardments from the United States Air Force. What we're about to see is the complete unraveling of Libya. Gone will be a stable society, free healthcare, free university education, free housing, no taxes, etc. You will now see a country turned into a flaming cauldron of fire as the Libyan Resistance fights the NATO-installed government for the next 3 years, the Bedouins take their own, and the new regime finds itself limited to the cities and the oil platforms. Libya will be turned into a basket case. But, the U.S. dollar will be maintained as official currency for petrol trade, Marathon Oil will have their franchise guaranteed and China will be prevented from getting a stable export source in the Middle East. Congrats!

[saxitoxin]

Great report on NATO war crimes occurring in Tripoli right now -

http://rt.com/news/tripoli-fights-rebels-shooting-546/

[saxitoxin]

Thierry Meyssan reports live from Tripoli. NATO(US) launched a fairly brilliant move, using the last two months to secret infiltration cells into Tripoli then, when everyone was at full strength, launching city-wide bombings to confuse the defenders and allow the insurgents to come streaming into the city backed by US air power strafing people in the streets to eliminate any possibility the civilian population will resist the Islamist takeover.

Break-out your burquas - another secular Arab government just collapsed.

On Saturday, 20 August 2011, at 8:00 PM, that is to say just after the Iftar, the breaking of the Ramadan fast, the Atlantic Alliance launched "Operation Mermaid."

The "mermaids" are the mosque loud speakers which were used by Al Qaeda to send the signal to start the revolt. Immediately, rebel "sleeper cells" went into action. Small, highly mobile, groups kept multiplying the attacks. The night combats left 350 dead and 3000 injured.

A NATO ship docked near Tripoli unloaded heavy weapons and discharged Al Qaeda jihadists, supervised by officers of NATO.

The fighting raged again on Sunday night, reaching a rare degree of violence. NATO drones and planes have been bombarding in every direction. Helicopters are strafing people in the streets to clear the way for the jihadists.

At 11:30 PM, there was nothing the Ministry of Health could do but to take note that the hospitals are saturated. By early evening there were 1300 additional casualties and 5000 injured.

NATO was entrusted by the Security Council to protect civilians.

http://www.voltairenet.org/NATO-carnage-in-Tripoli

If Canada were not already a pliant puppet, the same strategy could easily be used in an imagined popular rebellion in Quebec with 2-3 years advance drumbeating in the pop culture press to reimagine Canada from a stable nation to a brutal oppressor of the francophone minority.

[Phatscotty]

omg! It's a gun!

Libyan presenter waves gun and vows to defend station
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKQioEHZz0Q

[General_Tao]

Saxi, Quebec is doing just fine, merci beaucoup...

As to the Libyan people, they will be much better off in the near future as the billions from their oil will stop going to Qaddhafi's bank accounts in Switzerland to be spent on things like his rotten progeny buying up Italian soccer teams and other trophies. i would imagine the Libyan people have a very bright and comfortable future if they can put together a decent government.

The OP's main question has been answered though, the US and NATO won't be bringing any troops on the ground in Libya now that the country is about to be liberated. Yes saxi, there is indeed a risk of the country becoming hostage to foreign interests, but its people can rise up against any future corrupt regimes the same way they are deposing the current one.

[saxitoxin]

Saxi, Quebec is doing just fine, merci beaucoup...

Of course. You fawn at the throne of the United States. Canada has paid for protection. Libya will be a protected nation soon, too. Their new government has been hand-picked by the United States. The Prime Minister is the former Justice Minister of the "hated Qaddafi regime." The Oil Minister is an economics professor at an American university. The Defence Minister is a former U.S.-based, CIA-trained exile.

If Canada ever tried to exhibit one iota of independence - like Qaddafi did when he tried to dump the U.S. dollar 60 days before the "rebellion" "spontaneously" started - you would be ground into the dirt by the U.S. Air Force and every street gang in Montreal, and First Nations tribe to whom the CIA could get guns.

The OP's main question has been answered though, the US and NATO won't be bringing any troops on the ground in Libya now that the country is about to be liberated.

After NATO just finished strafing the streets of Tripoli, with thousands of Libyans lying in overflowing hospitals and packed morgues, you're supremely dull if you think tomorrow will be roses and jasmine. Best case scenario, Libya will follow the Egypt route: a brutal military junta ruling the country. Most likely scenario - 3 months of bloody reprisals, people executed in the streets, lynchings, mob justice, followed by a 4-way civil war: Jalil supporters, Jamahiryah supporters, Bedouins and Al-Qaeda.

This all ends with "private security contractors" (US-paid Xe mercenaries) flowing into the country to protect "civilians" (oil wells) as the sheep proudly proclaim "Look at Libya! Their free healthcare and schools are gone, their infrastructure is in ruins, thousands of them are dead, they're in the middle of a Civil War, they're ruled over by the former Justice Minister of the government we have been saying is brutal, they've had to sign-over all their oil to Qatar, their country is overrun with mercenaries - but they're free! We're so proud of ourselves!"

[saxitoxin]

......

[saxitoxin]

More reports of a possible barrel shoot coming up ...

Journalist Lizzie Phelan who is in Tripoli says allowing the rebels inside the capital could well be a strategic move on the part of Libya troops who have corralled the rebels into a single location. Most of the rebels who are not busy looting are now gathering on the Green Square in the center of Tripoli waving flags.

“What we have heard is that the strategy of the Libyan government and army was to permit the rebels into the city because previously they have been operating in a sneaky manner and it was very difficult to know who they were and where they were hiding, so that they could be dealt with in a direct manner,” the journalist says, adding that if this information proves true – it would be interesting to see what NATO undertakes to support the rebels on the ground.

http://rt.com/news/foreign-trapped-hotel-tripoli-975/

[Qwert]

well after goverment troops gone,you will have armed groups of people who will be withouth any control, people from nafusa,will fight for hes part of cake, misrata also,and bengasi(who been inactive in hes front) will try to put all these in control. Also killing revenge will start,like they kill general Younis, and these mean that nobody protected from that. Nato(us) realy dont care for part of lybia,where not have oil, these mean that pupet state need only to hold areas with oil,all other no need for NAto(us) countries.
Now all tribes get chance to create hes own states, because now all and everybody have weapons to do that.

[saxitoxin]

And so it begins ...

Richard Haass, President of the Council on Foreign Relations and "Director of the Future of Afghanistan" at the U.S. State Department (funny, I thought Afghans were supposed to "direct" their own "future" LOL), just penned an editorial in the Financial Times urging the immediate deployment of western ground troops in Libya.

http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/559804f8-c ... z1Vk5FwHZd

as we predicted ... *yawn*

they'll come up with some throwaway line "limited and temporary intervention to ensure transitional government stability" or some tripe like that; it doesn't have to be very good, it can just be a disposable sentence or two that'll buy another 6 months of patience from Tao and other ecstatically feverish fluffers of Uncle Sam's engorged manhood

[saxitoxin]

LOL - U.S. just helped itself to $1.5 billion in "frozen" Libyan funds ...

http://www.voltairenet.org/Washington-t ... snatch-1-5

Step on up for your slice of the pie!

[angola]

Saxi, Quebec is doing just fine, merci beaucoup...

As to the Libyan people, they will be much better off in the near future as the billions from their oil will stop going to Qaddhafi's bank accounts in Switzerland to be spent on things like his rotten progeny buying up Italian soccer teams and other trophies. i would imagine the Libyan people have a very bright and comfortable future if they can put together a decent government.

The OP's main question has been answered though, the US and NATO won't be bringing any troops on the ground in Libya now that the country is about to be liberated. Yes saxi, there is indeed a risk of the country becoming hostage to foreign interests, but its people can rise up against any future corrupt regimes the same way they are deposing the current one.

Well said. It's always funny when Saxi is wrong. Always.

[saxitoxin]

Saxi, Quebec is doing just fine, merci beaucoup...

As to the Libyan people, they will be much better off in the near future as the billions from their oil will stop going to Qaddhafi's bank accounts in Switzerland to be spent on things like his rotten progeny buying up Italian soccer teams and other trophies. i would imagine the Libyan people have a very bright and comfortable future if they can put together a decent government.

The OP's main question has been answered though, the US and NATO won't be bringing any troops on the ground in Libya now that the country is about to be liberated. Yes saxi, there is indeed a risk of the country becoming hostage to foreign interests, but its people can rise up against any future corrupt regimes the same way they are deposing the current one.

Well said. It's always funny when Saxi is wrong. Always.

always ...

Title: "Libya Now Needs Boots on the Ground"
Author: Richard Haass, U.S. State Department
Date: August 22, 2011
Link: http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/559804f8-c ... z1Vk5FwHZd

[angola]

Meh. Plenty of folks hate the west. Mainly saxi and qwert. I hope they enjoy their time.

[saxitoxin]

Angola's Worldview in 5 Seconds:

Saxi and Qwert


The Rest of the World


It ain't easy being simple.