Does Mike Vick deserve his $100 million dollars

[Neoteny]

I'm torn between the fact that Vick "did his time" but is also a "massive dick." Sadly, football players are often seen as role models, so we also get the idea that you can be a terrible person and still be paid millions, or, conversely, the Christian idea that you can be forgiven for your trespasses. It's all pretty fucked up, and i, were I a coach, would probably be ok with avoiding Vick. That said, the Eagles have been struggling at the upper edge of mediocriy for years, and are obviously looking for the piece that will send them over the edge.

Tl;dr: I dunno.

[oVo]

Does any athlete deserve $10 million a year? The NFL and it's member teams are a business and all these lucrative contracts are obviously considered good investments into their product.

Is the President of the USA still making $200-$250K a year plus perks?

[BigBallinStalin]

I suppose whether he "deserves" the money depends on how much business he can bring to the team. Apparently whomever is signing the checks thinks he can bring the win and therefore the revenue, through ticket and merchandise sales, advertising, etc.

I'm sure BBS will back me up here.


-TG

Furthermore, this concept of thinking that a hardly involved 3rd party can claim that so-and-so deserves money is ridiculous because it presumes that people who aren't at all involved in this transaction somehow have the ability to adjust the price of Michael Vick's wage.

In other words, to claim that Mike Vick does not deserve $100 million implies that he should make $X amount. However, the price of his labor is truly represented by the potential $100 million offered by his future employees and not by someone's value judgement of Michael Vick's wage.

I don't get how someone who's not involved in an exchange feels that they can reasonably adjust a price that's equal to the good offered.

[BigBallinStalin]

I suppose whether he "deserves" the money depends on how much business he can bring to the team. Apparently whomever is signing the checks thinks he can bring the win and therefore the revenue, through ticket and merchandise sales, advertising, etc.

I'm sure BBS will back me up here.

But other than that I couldn't give a f*ck about football. The fact that a player potentially CAN make $100 million by running around on a field seems odd to me. Just goes to show how many of you are getting suckered into paying for tickets, seats, gear, cable t.v., etc. etc. to watch a group of idiots throw a ball around.

-TG

I agree, but unless you only watch independent films and such were the actors need another job just to live, then it's kind of hypocritical. Being a football player is a lot harder than acting (I think, I don't know personally though, I just have played football) yet actors make ridiculous amount of money as well. But people, especially football fans, are never going to stop watching games. Just like in the days of the Coliseum, people want to see blood.

Well, to explain the price of actors, one should examine the Actors Guild's methods of restricting competition, thus keeping prices high. But still, it makes sense that some actors are worth tens of millions because of the potential of profit involved in making a film, and highly valuable actors tend to be in very, very little supply, thus increasing their price.

[whitestazn88]

Does any athlete deserve $10 million a year? The NFL and it's member teams are a business and all these lucrative contracts are obviously considered good investments into their product.

Is the President of the USA still making $200-$250K a year plus perks?

I think Obama filed for like 5 mil last year or somewhere around that. Salary of the POTUS is 440k (someone correct me if I'm wrong on that figure) I believe. And he make a ton for any appearance (eg. speaking at some University graduation), plus obviously his books.

And then there are the perks, such as free security detail for the rest of his life, flights on Air Force One whenever he wants, the whole staff of the White House, free meals wherever he goes, free tickets to sporting events, getting to meet famous people, dealing with the economy, etc, etc.

And while Obama may get a lot of stress, I dunno if that compares to getting lit up by some 250lb (appx 110-120kg) linebacker at full speed.

[Army of GOD]

I suppose whether he "deserves" the money depends on how much business he can bring to the team. Apparently whomever is signing the checks thinks he can bring the win and therefore the revenue, through ticket and merchandise sales, advertising, etc.

I'm sure BBS will back me up here.

But other than that I couldn't give a f*ck about football. The fact that a player potentially CAN make $100 million by running around on a field seems odd to me. Just goes to show how many of you are getting suckered into paying for tickets, seats, gear, cable t.v., etc. etc. to watch a group of idiots throw a ball around.

-TG

I agree, but unless you only watch independent films and such were the actors need another job just to live, then it's kind of hypocritical. Being a football player is a lot harder than acting (I think, I don't know personally though, I just have played football) yet actors make ridiculous amount of money as well. But people, especially football fans, are never going to stop watching games. Just like in the days of the Coliseum, people want to see blood.

Well, to explain the price of football players, one should examine the NFLPA's methods of restricting competition, thus keeping prices high. But still, it makes sense that some football players are worth tens of millions because of the potential of profit involved in playing football games, and highly valuable football players tend to be in very, very little supply, thus increasing their price.

[BigBallinStalin]

I suppose whether he "deserves" the money depends on how much business he can bring to the team. Apparently whomever is signing the checks thinks he can bring the win and therefore the revenue, through ticket and merchandise sales, advertising, etc.

I'm sure BBS will back me up here.

But other than that I couldn't give a f*ck about football. The fact that a player potentially CAN make $100 million by running around on a field seems odd to me. Just goes to show how many of you are getting suckered into paying for tickets, seats, gear, cable t.v., etc. etc. to watch a group of idiots throw a ball around.

-TG

I agree, but unless you only watch independent films and such were the actors need another job just to live, then it's kind of hypocritical. Being a football player is a lot harder than acting (I think, I don't know personally though, I just have played football) yet actors make ridiculous amount of money as well. But people, especially football fans, are never going to stop watching games. Just like in the days of the Coliseum, people want to see blood.

Well, to explain the price of football players, one should examine the NFLPA's methods of restricting competition, thus keeping prices high. But still, it makes sense that some football players are worth tens of millions because of the potential of profit involved in playing football games, and highly valuable football players tend to be in very, very little supply, thus increasing their price.

A valid observation, sir.

The problem is separating the influences such as:

(1) The price set by the labor union
(2) The price of potential supply, given no restrictions by the NFLPA or other laws (e.g. post-high school players being restricted from the market; educational laws that prevent football farms similar to ones used in Europe; etc.)
(3) The value of football skills and knowledge
etc.

Either way, Mike Vick "deserves" his money because given the constraints, his value mostly seems to be influenced by his skills and knowledge of football. The union can set wages, and the union + laws can restrict supply, but that doesn't grant 4th string quarterbacks $100 million. The difference in wages is mostly from the skills and knowledge.

[Army of GOD]

I suppose whether he "deserves" the money depends on how much business he can bring to the team. Apparently whomever is signing the checks thinks he can bring the win and therefore the revenue, through ticket and merchandise sales, advertising, etc.

I'm sure BBS will back me up here.

But other than that I couldn't give a f*ck about football. The fact that a player potentially CAN make $100 million by running around on a field seems odd to me. Just goes to show how many of you are getting suckered into paying for tickets, seats, gear, cable t.v., etc. etc. to watch a group of idiots throw a ball around.

-TG

I agree, but unless you only watch independent films and such were the actors need another job just to live, then it's kind of hypocritical. Being a football player is a lot harder than acting (I think, I don't know personally though, I just have played football) yet actors make ridiculous amount of money as well. But people, especially football fans, are never going to stop watching games. Just like in the days of the Coliseum, people want to see blood.

Well, to explain the price of football players, one should examine the NFLPA's methods of restricting competition, thus keeping prices high. But still, it makes sense that some football players are worth tens of millions because of the potential of profit involved in playing football games, and highly valuable football players tend to be in very, very little supply, thus increasing their price.

A valid observation, sir.

The problem is separating the influences such as:

(1) The price set by the labor union
(2) The price of potential supply, given no restrictions by the NFLPA or other laws (e.g. post-high school players being restricted from the market; educational laws that prevent football farms similar to ones used in Europe; etc.)
(3) The value of football skills and knowledge
etc.

Either way, Mike Vick "deserves" his money because given the constraints, his value mostly seems to be influenced by his skills and knowledge of football. The union can set wages, and the union + laws can restrict supply, but that doesn't grant 4th string quarterbacks $100 million. The difference in wages is mostly from the skills and knowledge.

Are we arguing or agreeing? I have no problem with what you said.

[BigBallinStalin]

If you agree, then we agree.

We're all winners here, AoG.


(I'm just applying the economic way of thinking.)

[Army of GOD]

If you agree, then we agree.

We're all winners here, AoG.


(I'm just applying the economic way of thinking.)

I was just pointing out that because TG doesn't like football, he thinks he's above football fans that support it. Yet he probably supports tv shows, movies, music, etc. where people are being completely over-paid (from mosta blue-or-white-collar workers opinions).

[Night Strike]

[quote="whitestazn88"]such as free security detail for the rest of his life/quote]

Actually it's only for 10 years after leaving office now. Clinton signed that into law in like 1997 I believe.



On topic, as was mentioned previously, the guaranteed money is only $40 million over the 6 years. Furthermore, I heard on ESPN this morning that Vick still owes creditors $19 million from filing for bankruptcy when he went to jail. So he's not really going to be able to keep all of that money anyway. Just some information to put everything in context.

[BigBallinStalin]

If you agree, then we agree.

We're all winners here, AoG.


(I'm just applying the economic way of thinking.)

I was just pointing out that because TG doesn't like football, he thinks he's above football fans that support it. Yet he probably supports tv shows, movies, music, etc. where people are being completely over-paid (from mosta blue-or-white-collar workers opinions).

Come now, dear boy. TG is a lobster-alien, so we shouldn't take seriously his observations of human activities.

[Army of GOD]

such as free security detail for the rest of his life/quote]

Actually it's only for 10 years after leaving office now. Clinton signed that into law in like 1997 I believe.



On topic, as was mentioned previously, the guaranteed money is only $40 million over the 6 years. Furthermore, I heard on ESPN this morning that Vick still owes creditors $19 million from filing for bankruptcy when he went to jail. So he's not really going to be able to keep all of that money anyway. Just some information to put everything in context.

But he also has/is going to get sponsorships (especially if he wins an MVP award/Super Bowl), so that'll help.

[wildwilliam]

More Vick contract details
Posted by Mike Florio on August 30, 2011, 8:45 PM EDT
Michael Vick AP

We explained earlier today that Vick’s six-year $100 million contract with $40 million guaranteed is actually a five-year, $80 million contract with $35.5 million guaranteed.

There are some new details regarding the deal.

Vick’s $20 million compensation for 2011 comes from a $7 million signing bonus, a $10 million guaranteed base salary, and a $3 million roster bonus. His cap number is $14.4 million, which created $1.8 million in additional cap room for the team.

In 2012, Vick earns a guaranteed base salary of $12.5 million. His cap number is $13.9 million.

In 2013, Vick’s base salary is $16.5 million, but it has a $1 million de-escalator, which would drop the salary to $15.5 million. (The specific event that would drop his salary isn’t known.) Only $3 million of the amount is guaranteed, for injury only. The cap number is $16.9 million.

For 2014, Vick’s base salary of $12.5 million can escalate to $15 million. He also has a $3 million roster bonus, and a cap number of $19.4 million.

For 2015, Vick has a base salary of $14.5 million, with a roster bonus of $2 million. The cap number is $17.9 million.

After year two, when all of the fully guaranteed money has been paid, it will be easy for the Eagles to walk away. In 2013, they’d take a pre-June 1 cap hit of $4.2 million. In 2014, the pre-June 1 cap hit would be $2.8 million. After June 1, they’d split a $1.4 million cap charge over 2014 and 2015.

The deal essentially guarantees Vick the franchise tag amount for 2011, 2012, and a slice of 2013 (injury only), with no real guarantees beyond that.

[TA1LGUNN3R]

I was just pointing out that because TG doesn't like football, he thinks he's above football fans that support it. Yet he probably supports tv shows, movies, music, etc. where people are being completely over-paid (from mosta blue-or-white-collar workers opinions).

I generally appreciate watching things that involve at least some form of thinking. That's not to say I don't enjoy sports; I like to play sports irl. But I find watching them incredibly dull.

Come now, dear boy. TG is a lobster-alien, so we shouldn't take seriously his observations of human activities.

-TG

[patrickaa317]

such as free security detail for the rest of his life

Actually it's only for 10 years after leaving office now. Clinton signed that into law in like 1997 I believe.



On topic, as was mentioned previously, the guaranteed money is only $40 million over the 6 years. Furthermore, I heard on ESPN this morning that Vick still owes creditors $19 million from filing for bankruptcy when he went to jail. So he's not really going to be able to keep all of that money anyway. Just some information to put everything in context.

That doesn't change the amount he is getting paid. If I get paid $15 an hour, I get paid $15 an hour. It doesn't matter how much debt I have, my pay remains the same.

If the Eagles didn't offer him his contract, that $19 million would still be out there.

[Night Strike]

such as free security detail for the rest of his life

Actually it's only for 10 years after leaving office now. Clinton signed that into law in like 1997 I believe.



On topic, as was mentioned previously, the guaranteed money is only $40 million over the 6 years. Furthermore, I heard on ESPN this morning that Vick still owes creditors $19 million from filing for bankruptcy when he went to jail. So he's not really going to be able to keep all of that money anyway. Just some information to put everything in context.

That doesn't change the amount he is getting paid. If I get paid $15 an hour, I get paid $15 an hour. It doesn't matter how much debt I have, my pay remains the same.

If the Eagles didn't offer him his contract, that $19 million would still be out there.

I'm well aware of this. I'm just saying he's massively in debt.

[Symmetry]

If you were Michael Vick the amount of debt you had would certainly matter, it being part of what influenced Michael Vick to enter into a contract with the Eagles, and not, say some company offering $15 an hour.

[Night Strike]

If you were Michael Vick the amount of debt you had would certainly matter, it being part of what influenced Michael Vick to enter into a contract with the Eagles, and not, say some company offering $15 an hour.

Truth. My wife and I will have a total of about $40,000 of student loan debt when I finish. That's why I want a degree in my field: to be able to pay that debt off as quickly as possible.

[40kguy]

He deserves to be in jail. Or better yet he deserves to be dropped into a cage filled with dogs and torn limb from limb. That would be justice.

no he should be forced to fight some other dog fighter (or what ever the law is called) to the death and let the dogs watch.

[Crazyirishman]

I think vick it good just not good enough right now to be a top 3-4 paid quarterback, brees will get his money this or next year, and rodgers in a couple years probably. I think vick as a player is in the 6 year 75 miliion with 30 guaranteed type range. what he did in his personal life years ago should have no bearings on what he gets paid now.

[Symmetry]

I think vick it good just not good enough right now to be a top 3-4 paid quarterback, brees will get his money this or next year, and rodgers in a couple years probably. I think vick as a player is in the 6 year 75 miliion with 30 guaranteed type range. what he did in his personal life years ago should have no bearings on what he gets paid now.

Are you advocating employers no longer looking at criminal records of their potential employees? Or just in Vick's case?

[whitestazn88]

He deserves to be in jail. Or better yet he deserves to be dropped into a cage filled with dogs and torn limb from limb. That would be justice.

no he should be forced to fight some other dog fighter (or what ever the law is called) to the death and let the dogs watch.

vick would beat the shit out of them.

[wildwilliam]

Vick is the 3rd highest paid QB right now. he is behind peyton manning and brady. Brady and Manning both have super bowl wins (win for manning) and both have multiple appearances. Vick has started 5 playoff* games and won 2. What about top qb's getting paid less than vick?

(playoff games)*

Philip Rivers (started 7, won 3) Aaron Rodgers (started 5, won 4, won 1 super bowl) Drew Brees (started 7, won 4, won 1 super bowl) Eli Manning (started 7, won 4, won 1 super bowl) Joe Flacco (started 7, won 4) Mark Sanchez (started 6, won 4) Jake Delhomme (started 8, won 5) Matt Hasselbeck (started 11, won 5, made it to 1 super bowl) Donovan McNabb (started 16, won 9, made it to 1 super bowl) Ben Roethlisberger (started 13, won 10, won 2 super bowls)

Just some stats.

*edit

[patrickaa317]

If you were Michael Vick the amount of debt you had would certainly matter, it being part of what influenced Michael Vick to enter into a contract with the Eagles, and not, say some company offering $15 an hour.

Are you implying that if Michael Vick didn't have the $19 Million debt, he wouldn't have signed the $100 Million contract? I'm pretty sure he would have signed that contract either way. And he definitely deserves it with the talent he has.