[Official] NBC Mafia Town Win MVP=trinicardinal

[betiko]

I know plenty of other people who didn't get to claim epitaph. and I don't think there were only 3 guys who got looked at on day 1.
aparently every question we ask is going to generate wifom answers now that i start understanding all this, so in the end the fact of formulating an open question is suspicious according to many of you guy's logic. Each time I ask something I get fossed.

FOS epitaph for asking an open question then.

[shieldgenerator7]

Alright! I've just caught up this game, and see that many have voted jimfinn for inactivty. Also, I have started making a log of posts and such. After what happened in memebase, I'm determined to get my facts straight.

i too find jimfinn's initial responses funny, but he has since replied to the later cases. Hopefully his activty (and several others') will be good. I'm finding it very difficult to get a read on him.

-SG7 ( )

[safariguy5]

Vote Count

trini(1)- chap
jimfinn(5)- betiko, dazza, Leitz, trini, MoB
Rodion(2)- jonty, strike

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.

[jimfinn]

Alright! I've just caught up this game, and see that many have voted jimfinn for inactivty. Also, I have started making a log of posts and such. After what happened in memebase, I'm determined to get my facts straight.

i too find jimfinn's initial responses funny, but he has since replied to the later cases. Hopefully his activty (and several others') will be good. I'm finding it very difficult to get a read on him.

-SG7 ( )

Can you explain what happened in memebase (that you are referring to here?)

[chapcrap]

Finally back from my 5 day Thanksgiving break!

Don't read into my post on Golden Pantheon too deeply, I knew both of you were in this game. I was referencing the discussion thread on Indisputable truths.

This. That was obviously a joke vote and I was just pointing out something I thought was funny and used it was a joke vote back at saf. Trying to read something into that is a little bit much in my opinion.

I see the case on made on jimfinn, but I think Rodion trying to use this case is ridiculous. unvote vote Rodion

Alright! I've just caught up this game, and see that many have voted jimfinn for inactivty. Also, I have started making a log of posts and such. After what happened in memebase, I'm determined to get my facts straight.

i too find jimfinn's initial responses funny, but he has since replied to the later cases. Hopefully his activty (and several others') will be good. I'm finding it very difficult to get a read on him.

-SG7 ( )

Can you explain what happened in memebase (that you are referring to here?)

He's referring to the fact that he got lynched for not keeping track of his records well enough.

[dazza2008]

I don't know what to think with all this. I don't think Safari would slip up like this. Then I think Rodion must be town to start the case(if we did lynch strike and he was town then by Rodions comments he must be scum). Then I start thinking is this what Rodion wanted to happen. I will unvote for now but where to vote is a mystery to me now. I am too confused.

[Rodion]

Catching up.

The L-2 Chap/Trini interaction has been skimmed to exhaustion. When Trini unvoted, he did not unvote Betiko, he unvoted Leitz. It means that he didn't want to bring Betiko to L-1, not to L-2 (a situation Trini had no way to prevent).

I'm not happy with Chap accusing Trini wrongly, but I'm equally unhappy with Trini's inability of defending himself of an accusation that was blatantly wrong.

Betiko, est-ce que vous pourriez dire le link français? Je parle un peu de français, donc le link est meilleur que rien.

Yes, Jim over Medefe seems like a good start for D2 and with that I've fully read everything that was posted before my last post here.

Jonty, I'd like some insight on the thought process you used to vote me.

I second Betiko's question to you, Strike.

Swifte, how about a D2 post? Safari, please prod him.

[chapcrap]

Catching up.

The L-2 Chap/Trini interaction has been skimmed to exhaustion. When Trini unvoted, he did not unvote Betiko, he unvoted Leitz. It means that he didn't want to bring Betiko to L-1, not to L-2 (a situation Trini had no way to prevent).

I'm not happy with Chap accusing Trini wrongly, but I'm equally unhappy with Trini's inability of defending himself of an accusation that was blatantly wrong.

Betiko, est-ce que vous pourriez dire le link français? Je parle un peu de français, donc le link est meilleur que rien.

Yes, Jim over Medefe seems like a good start for D2 and with that I've fully read everything that was posted before my last post here.

Jonty, I'd like some insight on the thought process you used to vote me.

I second Betiko's question to you, Strike.

Swifte, how about a D2 post? Safari, please prod him.

First, I notice that you are ignoring the junk you posted and the fact that people are calling you out on it being junk.

Second, you must have been skimming the L-2 stuff about Trini/me/betiko. If Trini would have voted betiko, it would have made it L-2. He was L-3. I was already aware that Trini unvoted Leitz. It was a joke vote. He did not vote for betiko because he didn't want betiko to go to L-2. So, I'm not happy with you skimming and then saying that I skimmed and accused wrongly.

Third, if you need a thought process jonty on why you were voted, you can look at the others who voted you. How do you focus in on one of the people who voted you and ignore the rest without defending yourself.

[Rodion]

Yes, you're correct regarding the L-2 part. I apologize for skimming that and thinking the mistake was yours and not mine.

I asked for Jonty's thought process because he 1-line voted and didn't make his intentions clear, unlike Strike and you did. I see multiple thought processes that could lead to the vote and I want to know which one went through his head. Do you have a problem with that?

Also, I'm not ignoring what I posted. I just don't feel like I have anything to defend when 2 of my 3 votes are preemptive OMGUS (since my post possibly implicated Strike and you) and the 3rd one (Jonty's) is unmotivated.

[shieldgenerator7]

Yeah, I was refering to my lynching due to the LAL rule from memebase mafia.

Anyway, I find it suspicous that Rodion is using another language to communicate to players in this game. It's probably game related, as if it wasn't, rodion would probably tell betiko whatever it was in private. right? So I find that suspicious, especially because in Team CC mafia a similar tactic was made with secret code to communicate amongst cult members during the day. VOTE RODION for secret communication.

-SG7 ( )

[MeDeFe]

Google says: "Betiko, is what you might say the French link? I speak some French, so the link is better than nothing."

[trinicardinal]

Yeah, I was refering to my lynching due to the LAL rule from memebase mafia.

Anyway, I find it suspicous that Rodion is using another language to communicate to players in this game. It's probably game related, as if it wasn't, rodion would probably tell betiko whatever it was in private. right? So I find that suspicious, especially because in Team CC mafia a similar tactic was made with secret code to communicate amongst cult members during the day. VOTE RODION for secret communication.

-SG7 ( )

I've put the line through google translate.... I know its not the best option but here is the translation "Is what you might say the French link? I speak some French, so the link is better than nothing"

I do not understand what this has to do with our game - FOS Rodion for this statement and the use of French in an English game

[strike wolf]

I used to take French. What Medefe says is fairly accurate though I believe it's more like. "could you say the french link? I speak a little french, so the link is better than nothing." I'm not sure if that's much more accurate but it's what I got. It's Rodion being just a bit witty because Betiko mentioned having a link to The Nightmare Before Christmas but it was in French. There's really no reason to be unnerved by the French here.

I'll make a slight apology as I should have reread before I made my comment about 3 incidents between Rodion and Betiko. I had gotten something Epitaph said towards the end of day 1 with what Rodion had said. Beyond that I'm still reviewing Betiko and Rodion from day one and if not both of their behaviors, I do feel I have a bit to say about them individually from the day. I still stick to what I said about Rodion and Betiko overall (one weird incident of agreement from a new player is notable at best and wasn't worth voting for however a second incident based on what happened is a little odd) but with less severity. I especially don't like Rodion's part in it. He based his speculation on a joke vote and a response to a joke vote and he wants me to react differently from the way he did to prove his point. Secondly I don't like the timing. He posted his case shortly after I mentioned I wanted to hear more from him in this game.

It's actually weirder than that not only does he seem to want me to have based a case on something safari said as a joke in another thread (for the record I trust safari not to consciously make that comment in a way that could jeopardize the fairness of his game so the fact he says it means very little to me in regards to how I proceed with this game) but for at least the third time in this game betiko followed his lead in taking action. I did not buy into any rodion or betiko case yesterday but between this abstract comment from rodion and betiko's consistent behavior indicating some kind of alliance.
vote rodion
fos betiko

humm sorry, can you name the "at least third time" i follow rodion's lead?
1. on the very begining of day 1 i said he was the one i would trust a little for trying to ask a question about voting for the guy below us on a list. what lead did i follow there? no case/vote was done there by either of us on anyone.

It is still an odd statement expressing some level of agreement with Rodion. I also said by itself it's not enough to implicate either of you as scum (I still disagree with the premise of the case against you two from day 1) but it's a noteworthy incident.

2. rodion just makes a case about you on day 2. I ask you why you didn't suspect him, as that comment from safari should've make you have both suspicions about each other. I would ve definitely gone through my mind. I asked you a question, is that taking an action?

Rodion makes a case on a flimsy premise based on a joke vote and you follow him. There was a lot wrong with Rodion's question as I mentioned earlier. You seemed fairly confident that it was a good lead despite flaws. I consider that evidence of a connection and you did follow his lead in this instance.

So what exactly do you call "take at least 3 actions on rodion's leads??" ask you a question about the case he has against you? Do you have a selective memory or are you just trying to be manipulative? because when you count more than 3 I count 0, can you be more specific, or admit you got a little confused?

I'm still reviewing, I'll admit to one incident where I did get a bit confused (see above) but I do find significance in the link between you from these two incidents alone.

cause right now I am still holding on the jimfinn case and I m not the only one to find it fishy.

now could I vote against rodion? no problem about it, but I think that taking seriously what safari said in another game is not what I call a big case.

Betiko: I ask you why you didn't suspect him, as that comment from safari should've make you have both suspicions about each other.

I find these two comments just a bit contradictory. You agree that it is not a big case for taking what safari said seriously but you said earlier that the comment should have made me and rodion suspicious of each other. Basically you admit that what he said wasn't serious so logic would say I shouldn't take it serious but it should have made me suspicious of Rodion.

so basically you answer my question. for you safari's statement could not ve been a tell that slipped through his keyboard, it could only be a joke.

In summary, my vote and my case stands.

[dazza2008]

Vote Rodion for trying to make the case based on a joke in another game and speaking French. I don't get what he is up to or what he is doing but it all just seems scummy to me.

[dazza2008]

I was faste posted by Strike who cleared up the French stuff. My vote stands though because of that case.

[betiko]

rodion is just asking me for the link of "the nightmare before christmas" i told him about at the end of day 1. I told him I had it in french so it wouldn't be too much use for him. he asks me now if I can still give him the link as he speaks some french and it's better than nothing.
The first part of the sentence doesn't make too much sense simply because he speaks some french and not fluently french!
you said literaly "could you tell me the french link"

here is the link rodion! (in french it's called "mr jack's strange christmas") lol

http://www.dpstream.net/film-l-etrange-noel-de-m.-jack-en-streaming-45093.html

fastposted

[betiko]

It's actually weirder than that not only does he seem to want me to have based a case on something safari said as a joke in another thread (for the record I trust safari not to consciously make that comment in a way that could jeopardize the fairness of his game so the fact he says it means very little to me in regards to how I proceed with this game) but for at least the third time in this game betiko followed his lead in taking action. I did not buy into any rodion or betiko case yesterday but between this abstract comment from rodion and betiko's consistent behavior indicating some kind of alliance.
vote rodion
fos betiko

humm sorry, can you name the "at least third time" i follow rodion's lead?
1. on the very begining of day 1 i said he was the one i would trust a little for trying to ask a question about voting for the guy below us on a list. what lead did i follow there? no case/vote was done there by either of us on anyone.

It is still an odd statement expressing some level of agreement with Rodion. I also said by itself it's not enough to implicate either of you as scum (I still disagree with the premise of the case against you two from day 1) but it's a noteworthy incident.

well yes, I did say I trusted a little rodion on day 1 and I still do, I don't really see how he's been scummy from the start.

2. rodion just makes a case about you on day 2. I ask you why you didn't suspect him, as that comment from safari should've make you have both suspicions about each other. I would ve definitely gone through my mind. I asked you a question, is that taking an action?

Rodion makes a case on a flimsy premise based on a joke vote and you follow him. There was a lot wrong with Rodion's question as I mentioned earlier. You seemed fairly confident that it was a good lead despite flaws. I consider that evidence of a connection and you did follow his lead in this instance.

really?? I don't know the context of the other game i'm not in. I just see that safari says something, that even taken as a joke vote still makes you wonder "wait, is he refering to the official game as well??" I think that not having a doubt is odd. putting rodion's case against you as something super scummy is strange. basically, if you vote for him it's because you do beleive either one of you is scum!! you are just justifying your vote by the fact that rodion believed for one second that safari's statement could apply here

So what exactly do you call "take at least 3 actions on rodion's leads??" ask you a question about the case he has against you? Do you have a selective memory or are you just trying to be manipulative? because when you count more than 3 I count 0, can you be more specific, or admit you got a little confused?

I'm still reviewing, I'll admit to one incident where I did get a bit confused (see above) but I do find significance in the link between you from these two incidents alone.

I don't remember any other exchanges with rodion, except for the movie link thing at the end of day 1

cause right now I am still holding on the jimfinn case and I m not the only one to find it fishy.

now could I vote against rodion? no problem about it, but I think that taking seriously what safari said in another game is not what I call a big case.

Betiko: I ask you why you didn't suspect him, as that comment from safari should've make you have both suspicions about each other.

I find these two comments just a bit contradictory. You agree that it is not a big case for taking what safari said seriously but you said earlier that the comment should have made me and rodion suspicious of each other. Basically you admit that what he said wasn't serious so logic would say I shouldn't take it serious but it should have made me suspicious of Rodion.

You are saying that we are linked, I just say that i would vote for him if there is a real case, and right now the case is that he took a jokevote from safari in another game as a lead. when i see what type of small nothings are taken here as leads, I wonder why that one is a crazy scummy idea. even if it's a jokevote (again i don't know the whole context) it does make you wonder, and if each time you guys are in the same game one of you 2 is scum and the other townie, well it naturally makes you think about it in this game!! safari might have joke voted, but he said something that has been always true till then!! so i was surprised to see that it didn't make you suspect rodion. now you do because it made him suspect you!! and that is more fishy!!!

so basically you answer my question. for you safari's statement could not ve been a tell that slipped through his keyboard, it could only be a joke.

In summary, my vote and my case stands.

[Swifte]

Rodion - can you clear up these things for me? (and no, this is not OMGUS for having me prodded)

I'll be catching up later on the last 2 pages of this thread and look for an in-game lead, but if I don't see anything I'll default to thinking that:
a) Strike if scum (since I'm not).
b) if Strike dies and flips scum, Chap's behaviour in the Golden Pantheon game is indicative that he is also scum.

And if we lynch strike based on saf's joke in another thread and he flips town, then by default we have to lynch you next? Does that all serve the town's best interest? How can you be confident it wouldn't come to that? And if you're both town, then we've pretty much done the mobs job for them, taking out two of our stronger players on nothing more than the mods joke in another game. And if you're mafia then we've done your job for you, taking out one of the strongest players other than yourself, based on what appears to be an innocent joke. Maybe, if you're mafia, you think it is worth potentially sacrificing yourself to get strike out of the game, and besides, if strike goes first you may be able to weasle out of being lynched the next day anyway. The only way you lose is if you're both town.

Untill I see a real case against strike, I'm not bandwagoning this line of logic, and I find it really odd you're putting an weight on it at all. FOS

Yes, Jim over Medefe seems like a good start for D2 and with that I've fully read everything that was posted before my last post here.

If that's what you believe, why not actually vote for jim?

Personally I still need to re-read from both of jim and medefe before I can comment further.

fastposted by betiko

[jonty125]

Catching up.

The L-2 Chap/Trini interaction has been skimmed to exhaustion. When Trini unvoted, he did not unvote Betiko, he unvoted Leitz. It means that he didn't want to bring Betiko to L-1, not to L-2 (a situation Trini had no way to prevent).

I'm not happy with Chap accusing Trini wrongly, but I'm equally unhappy with Trini's inability of defending himself of an accusation that was blatantly wrong.

Betiko, est-ce que vous pourriez dire le link français? Je parle un peu de français, donc le link est meilleur que rien.

Yes, Jim over Medefe seems like a good start for D2 and with that I've fully read everything that was posted before my last post here.

Jonty, I'd like some insight on the thought process you used to vote me.

I second Betiko's question to you, Strike.

Swifte, how about a D2 post? Safari, please prod him.

You made a shocking case against strike I thought to myself - what the hell is he doing? After many moments thought I came up with your scum trying to delay us (rubbish, I know). So I voted you for your poor logic in your case against strike and selling it as "set in stone" ← Does this clarify

[Rodion]

Rodion - can you clear up these things for me?

Sure thing.

(and no, this is not OMGUS for having me prodded)

I'll be catching up later on the last 2 pages of this thread and look for an in-game lead, but if I don't see anything I'll default to thinking that:
a) Strike if scum (since I'm not).
b) if Strike dies and flips scum, Chap's behaviour in the Golden Pantheon game is indicative that he is also scum.

And if we lynch strike based on saf's joke in another thread and he flips town, then by default we have to lynch you next? Unfortunately, yes.

Does that all serve the town's best interest? If Strike is town, it doesn't.

How can you be confident it wouldn't come to that? I'm not! Check my post: no votes, no FOS, no nothing. I said that I'd be looking for an in-game lead and I'd only default to the Strike voting IF I didn't find an in-game lead. Either way, I felt like publicizing that evidence before I got killed, since it could bundle 2 scum in Strike/Chap, not to mention the reactions I'd get would be really valuable. For instance, if Strike flips town, I'd consider Epitaph to be 90% cleared (either that or he played pretty well).

And if you're both town, then we've pretty much done the mobs job for them, taking out two of our stronger players on nothing more than the mods joke in another game. And if you're mafia then we've done your job for you, taking out one of the strongest players other than yourself, based on what appears to be an innocent joke. Maybe, if you're mafia, you think it is worth potentially sacrificing yourself to get strike out of the game, and besides, if strike goes first you may be able to weasle out of being lynched the next day anyway. The only way you lose is if you're both town. I didn't fully elaborate on that because as I said it was meant to be food for thought and a secondary lead in case nothing else arised, but obviously the logistics would not allow any weasling out. If we are to collectively decide to follow Saf' jokevote and lynch one of us, the other has to follow suit in case of a town flip. And since mafia has the minority of players, trading 1 for 1 is not good for mafia, not to mention my latest mafia factions tend to meltdown after I'm gone (check Zelda Mafia for a prime instance of that Yoshi/Shield/Dazza epic meltdown and Actors Mafia for some very questionable fakeclaims).

Untill I see a real case against strike, I'm not bandwagoning this line of logic, and I find it really odd you're putting an weight on it at all. FOS

Yes, Jim over Medefe seems like a good start for D2 and with that I've fully read everything that was posted before my last post here.

If that's what you believe, why not actually vote for jim?

Because that comment applied to my catching up, that is, a read of every post until I made the Strike/Chap observation. My post then continued to account for a second catch up (every post after mine) and Jim has posted a little more after that, promising he'd start to contribute: I don't mind giving him a little time to prove that. Besides, I'm not a fan of constantly switching my vote around, so I usually take longer than others to form my conviction.

Personally I still need to re-read from both of jim and medefe before I can comment further.

fastposted by betiko

[Rodion]

Catching up.

The L-2 Chap/Trini interaction has been skimmed to exhaustion. When Trini unvoted, he did not unvote Betiko, he unvoted Leitz. It means that he didn't want to bring Betiko to L-1, not to L-2 (a situation Trini had no way to prevent).

I'm not happy with Chap accusing Trini wrongly, but I'm equally unhappy with Trini's inability of defending himself of an accusation that was blatantly wrong.

Betiko, est-ce que vous pourriez dire le link français? Je parle un peu de français, donc le link est meilleur que rien.

Yes, Jim over Medefe seems like a good start for D2 and with that I've fully read everything that was posted before my last post here.

Jonty, I'd like some insight on the thought process you used to vote me.

I second Betiko's question to you, Strike.

Swifte, how about a D2 post? Safari, please prod him.

You made a shocking case against strike I thought to myself - what the hell is he doing? After many moments thought I came up with your scum trying to delay us (rubbish, I know). So I voted you for your poor logic in your case against strike and selling it as "set in stone" ← Does this clarify

You see, Chap, this is why you ask people to motivate their votes. You can get gems like this. /\

13.Each game ‘day’ will not have a deadline unless activity decreases.

How can scum delay town when there is no established deadline? If discussion is being generated and that very discussion causes activity, thus preventing a deadline to be established, how can you possibly accuse me of "scum trying to delay us"?

Also, how did I sell it as "set in stone"? Did you also miss the part of my post where I mentioned I'd be looking for better leads before eventually defaulting to that case?

I also fail to find the "poor logic" in my post, but that's kind of expected since people commonly mistake logic with other things.

To answer your question, your answers did clarify that there was something really off with your vote. FOS Jonty.

I'm also going to FOS Shield and Dazza (and, to a lesser extent, Trini) for the french incident. That was an extremely easy cop out to finding a voting target. Trini's situation is not as bad because there was no vote to go with it, but if you're voting someone for such a reason (like Shield and Dazza did), make your due diligence first and:
1 - translate what was said to your language (google is your friend)
2 - read the thread and try to understand what the hell is going on

Betiko, merci beaucoup! I'll try to watch the movie this week.

[Rodion]

Strike, timing, really? I made a Nov 23 post saying I'd wait a couple of days before posting again and then I made a Nov 25 post. Can you really argue timing when my Nov 23 post had already established when I was going to post again? Do you think I only posted because you called me out and I just had to avoid being labeled as inactive? Think these things through and tell me if you still believe the timing is suspicious.

[dazza2008]

I brought up the French thing because I did not understand why you said it. I did translate it as best I could and wondered why you said it. I did not work out till Strike pointed out that it was the link to the movie. As soon as he did I retracted that part.

[safariguy5]

Vote Count

jimfinn(4)- betiko, Leitz, trini, MoB
Rodion(5)- jonty, strike, chap, shield, dazza

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.

[betiko]

wow l-3 i didn't realize that!

so medefe, jimfinn, swifte, rodion and epitaph are the ones that didn't cast a vote yet.
i wonder what the 2 quiet ones will do, but from what i read, epitaph and swifte think the same and aren't going to vote rodion.
Trini had a little something vs rodion and i think leitz and mob didn't comment anything on this case yet.

Jimfinn is still quite absent, so is medefe since the begining of the game. if we hit rodion and he results townie we will have no other choice than having strike as a number one suspect. and if we lynch him on day 3 and he results townie as well, we will be in a deep shit..

other option, can they be both scums and can all this be a play? hard to believe.
therefore, either 1 of them is scum (strike or rodion), either none of them, so 3 possibilities. voting for either one of them gives 2/3 chances of taking the wrong decision.
I think you can FOS them, but confronting one to the other is bad odds for town at this point of knowledge.

assuming there are 3-4 scums and a few unwanted neutrals, lynching jimfinn or medefe seems like a better option because the odds are roughly the same as rodion or strike, but in the event of being wrong we would lose less valuable players.

that's just my analyze for now. I just think rodion vs strike is a moot case.