South Park Mafia 2 Town Wins!

[drake_259]

LSU is defo a watcher. but their still could be a chance he could be a mafia watcher and messing us around a bit.

[blakebowling]

Vote Count
skillfusniper33 (1) - ???

[zimmah]

LSU is defo a watcher. but their still could be a chance he could be a mafia watcher and messing us around a bit.

i don't think mafia watcher even exists. and even tho safari has joat powers, i have a feeling he is not town anymore.

[drake_259]

LSU is defo a watcher. but their still could be a chance he could be a mafia watcher and messing us around a bit.

i don't think mafia watcher even exists. and even tho safari has joat powers, i have a feeling he is not town anymore.

http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Watcher

mentions there about mafia watchers and
http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=610&t=148929&start=0
this is the gangster game where bg was a watcher

and i don't believe safari is anything other than what his death role was

[Epitaph1]

Guys, I'm following along but having trouble keeping everything straight. I need to re-read everything from the past night to this point again when I have more time.

Although Safari has proven that he still has his JOAT abilities, that still says nothing to his alignment.

[safariguy5]

LSU is defo a watcher. but their still could be a chance he could be a mafia watcher and messing us around a bit.

i don't think mafia watcher even exists. and even tho safari has joat powers, i have a feeling he is not town anymore.

Well ok, but feelings don't really prove much.

Looking at the game setup, 15 players (if I counted correctly) is not large enough to have a cult recruiter IMO. Games of 20+ are usually large enough for town to have a fighting chance vs cult and mafia recruitment together.

I did say that all I can prove is that I still have my JOAT powers, so Epitaph is indeed correct in saying that

Guys, I'm following along but having trouble keeping everything straight. I need to re-read everything from the past night to this point again when I have more time.

Although Safari has proven that he still has his JOAT abilities, that still says nothing to his alignment.

I cannot prove my alignment, but I feel that there is at least good reason to believe that I am still town.

I know this argument borders on WIFOM, but in a game this size with VT roles, I would expect cult recruits (if there was a cult) to lose their abilities. At least believe that I still have mine.

[spiesr]

Looking at the game setup, 15 players (if I counted correctly) is not large enough to have a cult recruiter IMO. Games of 20+ are usually large enough for town to have a fighting chance vs cult and mafia recruitment together.

I for one, don't really think that you are likely to be cult at the moment. If you are not town aligned, I find much more likely that you are independent with some specific win condition that I can't really guess at. It could be pretty much anything from SK-like to lyncheresc to I don't know. But, agree that based on what we currently know cult seems unlikely to be in this game.
As for your abilities, the vote count confirms that you (or someone willing to help you out) have cast an extra vote. But, since when did JOATs get a double-voter ability anyway? If you are not what you say you are, I could see you taking a look at whatever abilities you do possess and throwing those in your claimed powers to use as a means of confirming your claim. On the other hand, you are good enough at this game that I wonder why you would have claim an action that could be proven false. Now, using a doc power on Mob is the sort of action that is pretty difficult to disprove. Now, when you claimed it you couldn't have know if there was a Tracker or Watcher in this game and the odds of one of them choosing a target that would allow them to contradict your claimed action would be pretty low, (if they were even present) but the possibility is something that you couldn't rule out. So, I have to ask myself, if you aren't actually what you say you are and don't have that power, would you have taken that risk? On the other hand, you may have simply been in a situation where your hand was forced. The death scene marked you as a JOAT, so when you came back you were basically forced to claim that you still had those powers. The town would expect it's claimed JOAT to make an action nearly everyone night until his powers mostly run out. So you more or less would have had to claim that you took some sort of action, and run the risk of it being disproven. Of all the JOAT powers the Doc one is probably the easiest to fake, as it doesn't give you any information that you would have to report, and it doesn't make any detectable changes.
Anyhow, while I still have my doubts about your current alignment, I don't know if we actually have enough evidence to lynch you at the moment. It is suspicious that you didn't show up having visited Mob, but there are enough ways that this could have happened to cast doubt on that evidence by itself. At the very least, more discussion is needed.

[drake_259]

But, since when did JOATs get a double-voter ability anyway?

They can have any powers really. It depends on what the mod want to give them. They all have a one shot though usually but even this can change if the mod wanted it.

[zimmah]

LSU is defo a watcher. but their still could be a chance he could be a mafia watcher and messing us around a bit.

i don't think mafia watcher even exists. and even tho safari has joat powers, i have a feeling he is not town anymore.

Well ok, but feelings don't really prove much.

Looking at the game setup, 15 players (if I counted correctly) is not large enough to have a cult recruiter IMO. Games of 20+ are usually large enough for town to have a fighting chance vs cult and mafia recruitment together.

I did say that all I can prove is that I still have my JOAT powers, so Epitaph is indeed correct in saying that

Guys, I'm following along but having trouble keeping everything straight. I need to re-read everything from the past night to this point again when I have more time.

Although Safari has proven that he still has his JOAT abilities, that still says nothing to his alignment.

I cannot prove my alignment, but I feel that there is at least good reason to believe that I am still town.

I know this argument borders on WIFOM, but in a game this size with VT roles, I would expect cult recruits (if there was a cult) to lose their abilities. At least believe that I still have mine.

you were lynched by town, maybe your reviver skill makes you turn on the people who killed you, in this case, town killed you, wouldn't you want revenge?

[drake_259]

LSU is defo a watcher. but their still could be a chance he could be a mafia watcher and messing us around a bit.

i don't think mafia watcher even exists. and even tho safari has joat powers, i have a feeling he is not town anymore.

Well ok, but feelings don't really prove much.

Looking at the game setup, 15 players (if I counted correctly) is not large enough to have a cult recruiter IMO. Games of 20+ are usually large enough for town to have a fighting chance vs cult and mafia recruitment together.

I did say that all I can prove is that I still have my JOAT powers, so Epitaph is indeed correct in saying that

Guys, I'm following along but having trouble keeping everything straight. I need to re-read everything from the past night to this point again when I have more time.

Although Safari has proven that he still has his JOAT abilities, that still says nothing to his alignment.

I cannot prove my alignment, but I feel that there is at least good reason to believe that I am still town.

I know this argument borders on WIFOM, but in a game this size with VT roles, I would expect cult recruits (if there was a cult) to lose their abilities. At least believe that I still have mine.

you were lynched by town, maybe your reviver skill makes you turn on the people who killed you, in this case, town killed you, wouldn't you want revenge?

i really think you pushing to hard against safari, first you go on about how a watcher is basically town no matter what as u dont think they would ever be mafia, when in past games there have been quite a fair few. Watcher is more likely a role for mafia than a tracker is as well. anyway i believe at least either you or LSU are scum i think i'm willing to bet it on LSU more though.

[LSU Tiger Josh]

tbh the first time i've ever even heard of a mafia watcher was when someone brought it up in this thread. why would i be more likely to be a mafia role drake when all I've done is give out my results as given to me minus the accidental extra information that I'm disregarding in regards to playing.

[sensfan]

I'm agreeing with drake that zimmah has got to let down on the safari case. Sure, suspision isn't a bad thing, but really, he's got JOAT powers, don't lynch him.

Another fear I do have though, is that if the mafia still do have their kill is that safari is an obvious target for the kill. I'm surprised at why safari wasn't lynched last night. We've got to have some really tactical mafia around here, to try to hide around and let safari blend in. We need to moveon, I don't think that the safari case is any more of a lead than nothing at all.

I think we have the numbers on our side though.

Mafia Watcher? Is there such thing? Never heard of it. Maybe I'll use it in a game I mod next time

I'm not seeing where LSU is scum though. Maybe I missed something.

-sens

[zimmah]

so you guys just want to wait for the deadline and let the day end in a no-lynch?

you're all saying safari is innocent, but not comming up with any new cases.

besides, i think a grieved zombie is more likely to be scum then a watcher who is sharing information.

[skillfusniper33]

so you guys just want to wait for the deadline and let the day end in a no-lynch?

you're all saying safari is innocent, but not comming up with any new cases.

besides, i think a grieved zombie is more likely to be scum then a watcher who is sharing information.

I don't think there will be a no-lynch since there is one vote on the field, which is against me, and day 2 didn't end in a no-lynch but since slow had the most votes without an actual majority he was lynched. And as far as I can find there has been no deadline set.

[spiesr]

so you guys just want to wait for the deadline and let the day end in a no-lynch?

Skillfusniper is right about this one, in this game a deadline doesn't actually lead to no lynch unless we vote for it.

besides, i think a grieved zombie is more likely to be scum then a watcher who is sharing information.

I don't think anyone but Drake currently really thinks LSU is scum right now. And I don't even understand why Drake seems to think that.

I'm agreeing with drake that zimmah has got to let down on the safari case. Sure, suspision isn't a bad thing, but really, he's got JOAT powers, don't lynch him.

Do we know for certain that he currently has JOAT powers? Before he died he made an investigation on Drunk and got flavor results (that I don't recall if Drunk confirmed were correct or not), but I think we all accept that he had such powers before he died. He claimed to have made a Doc action on Mob last night, but LSU didn't see him visited Mob. He, or someone willing to help him, did make a second vote today, but doing so doesn't 100% confirm that he has the JOAT powers he claimed, just that he could make a Double Vote. If he came back as some sort of crazy lyncher or something he could have picked up those powers instead.

[safariguy5]

so you guys just want to wait for the deadline and let the day end in a no-lynch?

Skillfusniper is right about this one, in this game a deadline doesn't actually lead to no lynch unless we vote for it.

besides, i think a grieved zombie is more likely to be scum then a watcher who is sharing information.

I don't think anyone but Drake currently really thinks LSU is scum right now. And I don't even understand why Drake seems to think that.

I'm agreeing with drake that zimmah has got to let down on the safari case. Sure, suspision isn't a bad thing, but really, he's got JOAT powers, don't lynch him.

Do we know for certain that he currently has JOAT powers? Before he died he made an investigation on Drunk and got flavor results (that I don't recall if Drunk confirmed were correct or not), but I think we all accept that he had such powers before he died. He claimed to have made a Doc action on Mob last night, but LSU didn't see him visited Mob. He, or someone willing to help him, did make a second vote today, but doing so doesn't 100% confirm that he has the JOAT powers he claimed, just that he could make a Double Vote. If he came back as some sort of crazy lyncher or something he could have picked up those powers instead.

The doublevoter ability is something that I had originally. If you go back to my Day 3 post right after I was revived, I listed all my JOAT powers and also the result of my flavor investigation.

The reason why I used the doublevoter one-shot is because it is a day ability that I can use to prove I still have my abilities. All the others are night abilities, which could be difficult to prove.

As for the Mafia Watcher, it's definitely something I've used before (See POTC Mafia). Generally indicated the presence of third party roles in the game, but smart scum can use it spy on claimed cops and figure out who is the protective role. It's potentially a very powerful role.

However, I find that unlikely given that there were VT roles, and I don't know how you could balance that mafia power with a corresponding town one.

As for zimmah's insistence on a case on me, I really see nothing to back that up. It's just a lot of gut feelings and speculation. So I'll draw a line in the sand.

Since you feel so strongly that I'm scum, are you willing to be lynched tomorrow if I come up town zimmah?

If the answer is yes, I'll accept a lynch on me in return for lynching zimmah tomorrow (or vigging him tonight if we have a town vig). In fact, I'll even help it along by doublevoting myself if he says yes.

[drunkmonkey]

My strongest suspicion is still skillfusniper. It seems like we barely addressed the fact that MoB blocked him last night, and there was no mafia kill.

[safariguy5]

My strongest suspicion is still skillfusniper. It seems like we barely addressed the fact that MoB blocked him last night, and there was no mafia kill.

I agree, that's why I put my doublevote on skilful, and I'm willing to add my regular vote as well.

[zimmah]

so you guys just want to wait for the deadline and let the day end in a no-lynch?

Skillfusniper is right about this one, in this game a deadline doesn't actually lead to no lynch unless we vote for it.

besides, i think a grieved zombie is more likely to be scum then a watcher who is sharing information.

I don't think anyone but Drake currently really thinks LSU is scum right now. And I don't even understand why Drake seems to think that.

I'm agreeing with drake that zimmah has got to let down on the safari case. Sure, suspision isn't a bad thing, but really, he's got JOAT powers, don't lynch him.

Do we know for certain that he currently has JOAT powers? Before he died he made an investigation on Drunk and got flavor results (that I don't recall if Drunk confirmed were correct or not), but I think we all accept that he had such powers before he died. He claimed to have made a Doc action on Mob last night, but LSU didn't see him visited Mob. He, or someone willing to help him, did make a second vote today, but doing so doesn't 100% confirm that he has the JOAT powers he claimed, just that he could make a Double Vote. If he came back as some sort of crazy lyncher or something he could have picked up those powers instead.

good point, maybe he's a lyncher with the one who hammered him as his target

[zimmah]

My strongest suspicion is still skillfusniper. It seems like we barely addressed the fact that MoB blocked him last night, and there was no mafia kill.

i know that too, it's a good lead, but the thing is, there doesn't seem to be any flavor at all suggesting there was a kill attempt.

even then i think it would not hurt to pressure skillfusniper

and saf, i'm not saying you are scum, i'm just saying that someone is lying, and in my opinion, you're the most likely person to be lying. but maybe there's indeed a mafia watcher, which would really amaze me, especially if there's no town watcher or other town investigative role.

[drunkmonkey]

vote skillfusniper

[zimmah]

unvote vote skillfusniper

[safariguy5]

My strongest suspicion is still skillfusniper. It seems like we barely addressed the fact that MoB blocked him last night, and there was no mafia kill.

i know that too, it's a good lead, but the thing is, there doesn't seem to be any flavor at all suggesting there was a kill attempt.

even then i think it would not hurt to pressure skillfusniper

and saf, i'm not saying you are scum, i'm just saying that someone is lying, and in my opinion, you're the most likely person to be lying. but maybe there's indeed a mafia watcher, which would really amaze me, especially if there's no town watcher or other town investigative role.

I can see why you would suspect me, as I was brought back from the dead, but I feel that I've done more to prove my role that just about everyone else by virtue of my doublevote ability. As it is, I'll wait for a VC, but I'm willing to pressure skillful as well.

[sensfan]

On the skillful case, having re-read, it is kind of obvious that something is missing there. The mafia should have had their kill. So who blocked it? Is there a doc? A roleblocker/jailkeeper? MoB says he made the block, there was no mafia kill. Unless the scum is trying to throw us off with a no-kill tactic, skill ful seems to be the best target right now.

And seriously the safariguy-zimmah trade idea should not happen. What if we lose two townies? Sure, we could kill a scum, but I'm not willing to Russian Roulette. I am going to cast my vote .

vote skillfulsniper

[spiesr]

Well, the case on Skillfusniper is one that I think I can support at this point in time. By my count he is at 4 votes with 6 required for lynch. So I will hold my vote until he has a chance to claim or whatever he wants to do as his defense.