The SquirrelMasters' Quest (25/25) Night 1~A quick getaway

[thehippo8]

Jusunvotet to be sure ...

[thehippo8]

Let me try that again ... just to be sure ... unvote

[drake_259]

In epic mafia, the ranked games at least, follow the cop works really well, you know all the roles that are going to be in the game anyway. e.g. Cop, Doc, 3 Blues, 2 Mafia and also 1 Cop, 1 Doc, 1 Vig, 2 Blues, 1 Fool, 1 Mafia, 1 Hooker are the 2 most common ranked games for newbies on the site

Anyway N1 starts the games off and D2 a cop claims and mafia always cc before or after the cop cc, this is so they dont have a clear cop who they can follow while the doc safes them in the night. D1 the cop and cc says if they have inno or guilt, if have guilt they reviel if not they stay quiet about the results. if the doc died this still happens as cop will say there inno on another player and have a clear and the no lynch. N2 happens mafia trys to kill doc if doc is dead from n1 then a blue as they dont want to give themselfs away. D2 starts by cop and cc cop saying there results and if there is a clear from the results like cop saying guilty on the other mafia and the cc maf also says his partner is maf to dump him in it then they lynch him and if both say a town is inno they usually lead. Sometimes they lynch by if one says one is guilty and the other says the others are inno which also gives a clear result for a lynch. N3 happens again another blue or doc and then the last town decided who to vote for after some talk out of the cops who they cross vote each other and he votes for who he thinks is the mafia.

Thats how the C9 game works the other is quiet different and havent got time to explain but you can see how his gameplay works from this.

[safariguy5]

Yes, you just misinterpreted the use of "as" in that sentence.

-Sully

I don't think it was misinterpreted. Maybe misused...

Also, I don't hate General. Someone said something about everyone hating General. That's not the case. I'm not voting because of his attitude. I was voting because of the fact that he was acting like a scum. However, to all the people that are still talking about lynching a claimed doctor on Day 1: WTF?!?!

He has claimed doctor, don't lynch him without a counter claim. You are all talking about how he's got bad strategy (which I can't argue with), but how is lynching a doctor good strategy? Ridiculous.

Claimed doc, but not a full roleclaim. He should also be claiming a creature or something. Gives us information on flavor and what to expect on town's side. Anything from trolls and orcs to werewolves and vampires are on the table I'd expect.

[TheGeneral2112]

In epic mafia, the ranked games at least, follow the cop works really well, you know all the roles that are going to be in the game anyway. e.g. Cop, Doc, 3 Blues, 2 Mafia and also 1 Cop, 1 Doc, 1 Vig, 2 Blues, 1 Fool, 1 Mafia, 1 Hooker are the 2 most common ranked games for newbies on the site

Anyway N1 starts the games off and D2 a cop claims and mafia always cc before or after the cop cc, this is so they dont have a clear cop who they can follow while the doc safes them in the night. D1 the cop and cc says if they have inno or guilt, if have guilt they reviel if not they stay quiet about the results. if the doc died this still happens as cop will say there inno on another player and have a clear and the no lynch. N2 happens mafia trys to kill doc if doc is dead from n1 then a blue as they dont want to give themselfs away. D2 starts by cop and cc cop saying there results and if there is a clear from the results like cop saying guilty on the other mafia and the cc maf also says his partner is maf to dump him in it then they lynch him and if both say a town is inno they usually lead. Sometimes they lynch by if one says one is guilty and the other says the others are inno which also gives a clear result for a lynch. N3 happens again another blue or doc and then the last town decided who to vote for after some talk out of the cops who they cross vote each other and he votes for who he thinks is the mafia.

Thats how the C9 game works the other is quiet different and havent got time to explain but you can see how his gameplay works from this.

More or less an accurate resume of the C9. Point being, even in games that are seriously more complicated (including those with unknown roles) there are various ways of confirming a power role. Then, this power role takes the lead and all others sheep the vote. Also, a common thread is the no lynch. Often times, this prevents an endgame MYLO or LYLO from occurring because by the time you get down to the mid-end game, there are no roles left for the mafia to claim. When playing at epic, games don't last past D4-D6 (Usually) even for very large games. In fact, suggesting a RL to get claims would get you immediately lynched without any discussion whatsoever. There is no logical reason to go around BW random players and forcing a claim. Why? 1) Mafia will lie. 2) Mafia will know everyone's role after continued force claims. 3) Find me a case where you pressured someone and they claimed "Mafia". Can't find one? Huh... 4) Did I mention that mafia will lie?

I could be scum right now, and you wouldn't even know it. All you did was force me to roleclaim. If I am doc, I become a target. If I'm not doc, you wouldn't even know. Sounds like a town lose/lose to BW for RL to get a claim. We are NOWHERE near the point of the game to begin claiming for no good reason.

Honestly, mafia is nothing more than a game of math and psychology. The games here appear easy compared to EM. Did you know that "No Reveal" is a game setting there? As in, people win games without knowing what roles are in the game AND what role the deceased are. Besides, like many others have mentioned, in a game this size, you may be cc'd by another townie. Pressuring a claim is foolhearty and irresponsible.

[drake_259]

In epic mafia, the ranked games at least, follow the cop works really well, you know all the roles that are going to be in the game anyway. e.g. Cop, Doc, 3 Blues, 2 Mafia and also 1 Cop, 1 Doc, 1 Vig, 2 Blues, 1 Fool, 1 Mafia, 1 Hooker are the 2 most common ranked games for newbies on the site

Anyway N1 starts the games off and D2 a cop claims and mafia always cc before or after the cop cc, this is so they dont have a clear cop who they can follow while the doc safes them in the night. D1 the cop and cc says if they have inno or guilt, if have guilt they reviel if not they stay quiet about the results. if the doc died this still happens as cop will say there inno on another player and have a clear and the no lynch. N2 happens mafia trys to kill doc if doc is dead from n1 then a blue as they dont want to give themselfs away. D2 starts by cop and cc cop saying there results and if there is a clear from the results like cop saying guilty on the other mafia and the cc maf also says his partner is maf to dump him in it then they lynch him and if both say a town is inno they usually lead. Sometimes they lynch by if one says one is guilty and the other says the others are inno which also gives a clear result for a lynch. N3 happens again another blue or doc and then the last town decided who to vote for after some talk out of the cops who they cross vote each other and he votes for who he thinks is the mafia.

Thats how the C9 game works the other is quiet different and havent got time to explain but you can see how his gameplay works from this.

More or less an accurate resume of the C9. Point being, even in games that are seriously more complicated (including those with unknown roles) there are various ways of confirming a power role. Then, this power role takes the lead and all others sheep the vote. Also, a common thread is the no lynch. Often times, this prevents an endgame MYLO or LYLO from occurring because by the time you get down to the mid-end game, there are no roles left for the mafia to claim. When playing at epic, games don't last past D4-D6 (Usually) even for very large games. In fact, suggesting a RL to get claims would get you immediately lynched without any discussion whatsoever. There is no logical reason to go around BW random players and forcing a claim. Why? 1) Mafia will lie. 2) Mafia will know everyone's role after continued force claims. 3) Find me a case where you pressured someone and they claimed "Mafia". Can't find one? Huh... 4) Did I mention that mafia will lie?

I could be scum right now, and you wouldn't even know it. All you did was force me to roleclaim. If I am doc, I become a target. If I'm not doc, you wouldn't even know. Sounds like a town lose/lose to BW for RL to get a claim. We are NOWHERE near the point of the game to begin claiming for no good reason.

Honestly, mafia is nothing more than a game of math and psychology. The games here appear easy compared to EM. Did you know that "No Reveal" is a game setting there? As in, people win games without knowing what roles are in the game AND what role the deceased are. Besides, like many others have mentioned, in a game this size, you may be cc'd by another townie. Pressuring a claim is foolhearty and irresponsible.

However roles here are completely endless. you say a town can prove there role and to follow them, but however unlike EM, mafia can have a lot of the same roles as town so you cant fellow a watcher for example as a mafia could be that watcher, and a vig or overeager vig for example, cant follow them because of the serial killer (your killer). and with epic mafia you know how much town/ 3rd party / mafia there are where here you only can guess.

C9 is different here anyway because sometimes there is no doc or cop or both and you don't know about it till end game whereas of course you always have them in EM.

Yes mafia are gaining information but so are town and it helps town more in the long run.

[DoomYoshi]

1) That is why we have a policy to LAL. Usually we can catch mafia in a lie, which is why discussion is so important.

2) This is true, which is exactly why we prefer discussion. If we wait for confirmed power roles, then the mafia know the roles too, so I can't understand why you would bring up this point.

3)Nobody does claim mafia, unless they are a jester I think.

[jonty125]

1) Mafia will lie. 2) Mafia will know everyone's role after continued force claims. 3) Find me a case where you pressured someone and they claimed "Mafia". Can't find one? Huh... 4) Did I mention that mafia will lie?

1) Like doom said LAL gets mafia quite regulary. And when you start lying you have to lie to cover it up and one wrong sentence can unravel it all

2) Yes but so will we so we can test their claims and know roughly how powerful we are (town)

3) That's just stupid

4) Please answer 1

[Rodion]

In epic mafia, the ranked games at least, follow the cop works really well, you know all the roles that are going to be in the game anyway. e.g. Cop, Doc, 3 Blues, 2 Mafia and also 1 Cop, 1 Doc, 1 Vig, 2 Blues, 1 Fool, 1 Mafia, 1 Hooker are the 2 most common ranked games for newbies on the site

Anyway N1 starts the games off and D2 a cop claims and mafia always cc before or after the cop cc, this is so they dont have a clear cop who they can follow while the doc safes them in the night. D1 the cop and cc says if they have inno or guilt, if have guilt they reviel if not they stay quiet about the results. if the doc died this still happens as cop will say there inno on another player and have a clear and the no lynch. N2 happens mafia trys to kill doc if doc is dead from n1 then a blue as they dont want to give themselfs away. D2 starts by cop and cc cop saying there results and if there is a clear from the results like cop saying guilty on the other mafia and the cc maf also says his partner is maf to dump him in it then they lynch him and if both say a town is inno they usually lead. Sometimes they lynch by if one says one is guilty and the other says the others are inno which also gives a clear result for a lynch. N3 happens again another blue or doc and then the last town decided who to vote for after some talk out of the cops who they cross vote each other and he votes for who he thinks is the mafia.

Thats how the C9 game works the other is quiet different and havent got time to explain but you can see how his gameplay works from this.

I think I understand it now.

C9 is considered a "balanced" game in its natural "pre-shuffle" state. There are 4 different possible scenarios and all are 25% likely to appear (1 cop, 1 doc, cop and doc, no power roles). Even if town gets lucky and has both cop and doctor, the cop does not know there is a doctor (he estimates the existence of a doctor at 50%) and as such is unlikely to D1 claim.

What happens in EpicMafia C9 is that not only you give town the most beneficial scenario, but you also give them the knowledge that they cop the best possible scenario. As such, following the cop works well (there is no roleblocker in the setup) and it seems mafia has decided to always counterclaim cop (or claim cop for the real cop to counterclaim) in order to try to interfere with town's sense of security.

That said, with the way C9 games seem to be played in EpicMafia, I can understand a "no-lynch, follow the cop" approach to the game, but I don't think that should apply in Conquer Club (especially in this game that is filled with uncertainty - we don't seem to have a "traditional" mafia).

Anyway, after Drake's EpicMafia input (and assuming it is truthful), my opinion is that the no-lynch suggestion seemed like an honest (yet wrong) attempt at doing what General considered to be the best for town. I don't see myself voting on him if he isn't counteclaimed.

For the record, I'm not a fan of the 2nd/3rd major cases (Saf/Spies) either. I say we keep talking until a 4th case appears.

In my opinion (and it is just an opinion) here is what I think will happen depending on what we decide:

Lynch him now, we may lose a doctor. But 1. We dont have to worry about any other doctors counterclaiming (I believe there are more than 1) due to skimming and not seeing "A counterclaim would be bad" and 2. We dont have to listen to him rant.

OR

We leave him. Several things could go wrong. Someone skimming decides they will counterclaim, and now mafia or not, he and the 4 adventurers know who 2 of our potential doctors are. Kill them consecutive nights (because lets be honest, even if someone had the power to defend him, who would after his disrespect. I am all about respect and I MYSELF would have to think long and hard about it) and now 2 of our medics are gone. ON TOP OF THIS, he may prove to be mafia. If he lived through the night, we would have to debate whether it was him being defended, or if he was mafia. Could lead to us lynching him next turn, but the damage is done and he potentially takes down a PR N1.

Just my opinion. This is my first major game, but the way I see it, half of us hate him already. His attitude of "I will just protect myself and no one else" isnt helping anyone.

Making 2 town players have the same role (except masons/lovers) is bastard as it would lead us to get both killed (A counterclaims B, we lynch B, we realize B told the truth, we then lynch A). If Squirrel wants town to have multiple protectives roles, he'll make sure they have different names (doctor, jailkeeper, bodyguard). And when Safari said Squirrel would have multiple townies protecting the VIP, it doesn't necessarily means town has multiple doctors (or protective roles). For the VIP, simply having another townie know his identity constitutes some form of protection. The townie(s) that know who the VIP is can deflect wagons on the VIP from getting steam or even scumhunt more efficiently by seeing who makes a case on the VIP. They can breadcrumb to confirm one another after/if the VIP is dead (just make sure your breadcrumb is not caught - make it really complicated - and is the very reason the VIP dies). This is all "protection" in a sense.

"Town has many doctors so we won't lose much by killing General" is starting to be my favorite scumtell this game.

[spiesr]

They can breadcrumb to confirm one another after/if the VIP is dead (just make sure your breadcrumb is not caught - make it really complicated - and is the very reason the VIP dies).

If the VIP dies, they confirming each other doesn't do any good as the game is already over.

An explanation of Epicmafia. (Condensed for size.)

Interesting, from what I gather Epcimafia has essentially taken a handful of specific setups and refined the play for them to an artform. Mafia on CC has evolved rather differently, with games having unique and varied setups. The differences between each game have deterred the creation of specific strategies as detailed as Epicmafia has. There is a sort of grad overarching meta strategy, but it is much more vague.
It appears that Epicmafia strategy usually comes down to the town following a set series of action where they trade days and players for information that they use to try to win at the end. In CC games utilizing such a strategy are rare. The town prefers to actively attempt to scum hunt the whole way through the game, gather it's information that way.

Anyway N1 starts the games off and D2 a cop claims and mafia always cc before or after the cop cc, this is so they dont have a clear cop who they can follow while the doc safes them in the night. D1 the cop and cc says if they have inno or guilt, if have guilt they reviel if not they stay quiet about the results.

Here is one pretty solid difference. On CC if two people claimed Cop, one of two things would happen. The town would conclude that the game is large enough to possibly have two cops, in which case the cops would have differencing sanities, or one of those two would be lynched and if he came up cop the other would be vigged or lynched the next day.

Besides, like many others have mentioned, in a game this size, you may be cc'd by another townie. Pressuring a claim is foolhearty and irresponsible.

Not exactly, in order to prevent this games here are constructed in such a way that they almost never have two of the exact same version of the same role. (Barring stuff like Vanilla Townie and generic Mafia.) This can make certain details of your role important. In this game there might be more than one role than can protect a player from a night-kill, but there would certainly be some differences between the two roles.

There is no logical reason to go around BW random players and forcing a claim. Why? 1) Mafia will lie. 2) Mafia will know everyone's role after continued force claims. 3) Find me a case where you pressured someone and they claimed "Mafia". Can't find one? Huh... 4) Did I mention that mafia will lie?
I could be scum right now, and you wouldn't even know it. All you did was force me to roleclaim. If I am doc, I become a target. If I'm not doc, you wouldn't even know.

The idea is twofold, first that the town will analyze whatever claim is made to determine if it is true or false. Since roleclaims are basically the last line of defense for a player who is near being lynched, a good portion (by my guesstimate at least 1/3) of role-claims results in the town deciding that the claim is false and lynching the player anyway. The second part is that in the non-vanilla/low-vanilla games favored on CC where is scum don't know what all the roles in the game are, it becomes difficult for them to maintain a fake-claim in the long run without some other player's action contradicting it.
Anyhow, if you want us to believe your claim, you really need to provide some some of the other information that came with your role. While it might not have existed (probably was of no importance if it did) where you came from, in a game like this it is of at least moderate importance, and the refusal to provide it seems scummy. (Like perhaps your claim is a fake and you can't think up the appropriate information to back it up. Depends on if the mafia received fake information to make their fake-claims easier.)

In fact, suggesting a RL to get claims would get you immediately lynched without any discussion whatsoever.

And here suggesting a no lynch will likely start a discussion that has a good chance of ending in your lynch. I guess we just have a situation where players going for one site to the other will have to either adapt tot the local style, or die.

[zimmah]

They can breadcrumb to confirm one another after/if the VIP is dead (just make sure your breadcrumb is not caught - make it really complicated - and is the very reason the VIP dies).

If the VIP dies, they confirming each other doesn't do any good as the game is already over.

i don't think so. i believe the rules state that whenever the VIP dies, town is VERY LIKELY to lose, but not necessarily instantly loses.

so unless you got some extra information, the rules do not state game insta-finished whenever vip dies.

[safariguy5]

My vote isn't still on theGeneral so much as his doc claim, but more for the fact that he hasn't added the flavor yet, so it's really just a half-claim. I'd like him to claim what monster/being he is before I unvote because then we can get an idea of what might be town monsters and what may be mafia fakeclaim monsters.

[TheGeneral2112]

My vote isn't still on theGeneral so much as his doc claim, but more for the fact that he hasn't added the flavor yet, so it's really just a half-claim. I'd like him to claim what monster/being he is before I unvote because then we can get an idea of what might be town monsters and what may be mafia fakeclaim monsters.

You should already have an idea of what might be town "monsters" if you are town. The only reason this should be confusing to you is if you are a hero.

@everyone else - You are missing the point. There is a refinement for random shuffled play with random shuffled rules. The only thing you know with this setup is the number of town/3rd/mafia and any roles are fair game. That setup is best played with NL is well. At EM I play with mafia such as Janitors, Ventriloquists, Disquisers, Fiddlers, Sabatouer, Silencer, Sniper, Tailor, Witch and Yakuza. Even in open ended setups with mafia overpowered roles, it is still not a smart idea to go fishing for town claims on D1.

[TheGeneral2112]

My vote isn't still on theGeneral so much as his doc claim, but more for the fact that he hasn't added the flavor yet, so it's really just a half-claim. I'd like him to claim what monster/being he is before I unvote because then we can get an idea of what might be town monsters and what may be mafia fakeclaim monsters.

Also, while I am pointing this out again, I'm going to say that it is not mentioned what type of monster/being I am in my role PM. Only that I was hired by the evil wizard of the village to protect his minions.

ATTACK SAFARIGUY5

Unless anyone can confirm that they are called a specific monster in their role.

[zimmah]

that claim sounds legit. my role pm also speaks of an evil wizard.

[safariguy5]

My vote isn't still on theGeneral so much as his doc claim, but more for the fact that he hasn't added the flavor yet, so it's really just a half-claim. I'd like him to claim what monster/being he is before I unvote because then we can get an idea of what might be town monsters and what may be mafia fakeclaim monsters.

Also, while I am pointing this out again, I'm going to say that it is not mentioned what type of monster/being I am in my role PM. Only that I was hired by the evil wizard of the village to protect his minions.

ATTACK SAFARIGUY5

Unless anyone can confirm that they are called a specific monster in their role.

Yep, I know exactly what I am. I'm an Orc. So you either didn't read your role completely (skimming a role PM) or you are trying to hide something from us. Yes I was recruited by the evil wizard, but I know what I am.

[safariguy5]

My vote isn't still on theGeneral so much as his doc claim, but more for the fact that he hasn't added the flavor yet, so it's really just a half-claim. I'd like him to claim what monster/being he is before I unvote because then we can get an idea of what might be town monsters and what may be mafia fakeclaim monsters.

You should already have an idea of what might be town "monsters" if you are town. The only reason this should be confusing to you is if you are a hero.

@everyone else - You are missing the point. There is a refinement for random shuffled play with random shuffled rules. The only thing you know with this setup is the number of town/3rd/mafia and any roles are fair game. That setup is best played with NL is well. At EM I play with mafia such as Janitors, Ventriloquists, Disquisers, Fiddlers, Sabatouer, Silencer, Sniper, Tailor, Witch and Yakuza. Even in open ended setups with mafia overpowered roles, it is still not a smart idea to go fishing for town claims on D1.

So what Day 2 then? Cop probably gets an innocent result. You're saying he claims and clears the person then attempts to find scum on Night 2?

Or is he supposed to not claim and we no lynch again.

I'm simply going by the numbers here, odds are very good that cops are going to get innocent results, and if we just sit back and with for them to come up with something, by your strategy, we're going to be no lynching until they come up with something or are nightkilled. And then we're apparently screwed.

[MoB Deadly]

My vote isn't still on theGeneral so much as his doc claim, but more for the fact that he hasn't added the flavor yet, so it's really just a half-claim. I'd like him to claim what monster/being he is before I unvote because then we can get an idea of what might be town monsters and what may be mafia fakeclaim monsters.

You should already have an idea of what might be town "monsters" if you are town. The only reason this should be confusing to you is if you are a hero.

@everyone else - You are missing the point. There is a refinement for random shuffled play with random shuffled rules. The only thing you know with this setup is the number of town/3rd/mafia and any roles are fair game. That setup is best played with NL is well. At EM I play with mafia such as Janitors, Ventriloquists, Disquisers, Fiddlers, Sabatouer, Silencer, Sniper, Tailor, Witch and Yakuza. Even in open ended setups with mafia overpowered roles, it is still not a smart idea to go fishing for town claims on D1.

So what Day 2 then? Cop probably gets an innocent result. You're saying he claims and clears the person then attempts to find scum on Night 2?

Or is he supposed to not claim and we no lynch again.

I'm simply going by the numbers here, odds are very good that cops are going to get innocent results, and if we just sit back and with for them to come up with something, by your strategy, we're going to be no lynching until they come up with something or are nightkilled. And then we're apparently screwed.

Plus if we do not have a discussion, the cop will have no leads on who to investigate. Just so you know General I also come from a place where No Lynch was accepted. Part of that reason is because I only played in real time. However I see now that those days are long gone and its a lot more productive to gain information during the days. We cannot rely on night actions to win.

[zimmah]

hold on safari, General is the first one to claim that working for the evil wizard was in his role, that basicly adds more credtabilty to his alignment then you claiming orc. we know because of the day 1 flavor scene that there are at least 2 orcs around, so orc s kind of a confirmed race anyway, no real risk in claiming it, unless all orcs are masoned and they know they're the only orcs, but that is a really low chance.

so, i believe you both to be town for the moment, but generals claim is more believable then yours, if i had to choose. besides, my race is also not stated, so i assume i'm just human but i could be anything, in theory.

fastposted. x2

i believe general just has brought some strategy that seems to 'work' on EM, but clearly doesn't 'work' here. we can't punish hm for doing what he thought to be best for town. he probably understands by now that what he did is considered wrong around here.

let's find a new case before the deadline becomes a problem.

[TheGeneral2112]

My vote isn't still on theGeneral so much as his doc claim, but more for the fact that he hasn't added the flavor yet, so it's really just a half-claim. I'd like him to claim what monster/being he is before I unvote because then we can get an idea of what might be town monsters and what may be mafia fakeclaim monsters.

Also, while I am pointing this out again, I'm going to say that it is not mentioned what type of monster/being I am in my role PM. Only that I was hired by the evil wizard of the village to protect his minions.

ATTACK SAFARIGUY5

Unless anyone can confirm that they are called a specific monster in their role.

Yep, I know exactly what I am. I'm an Orc. So you either didn't read your role completely (skimming a role PM) or you are trying to hide something from us. Yes I was recruited by the evil wizard, but I know what I am.

Nobody else has confirmed that they received a specific monster claim. Until then, this is where my vote stays.

As far as your questions with the cop, it is simple. Cop should out now. Then we can put a doc and a watcher on him. It doesn't matter if he is roleblocked, the watcher will see who roleblocks him. Then we lynch that person tomorrow. Otherwise, yes, cop continues to investigate and clear townies. Then he doesn't out his innos, because mid/late game, he will have a list of innos. By deduction, you will reach an autowin point at which you can lynch all non-confirmed players. Some of those will be townies, but at a certain point, it doesn't matter because you will have time to lynch every single non-confirmed before mafia win.

Also, fastposted, read this Zimmah.^^^^^

[TheGeneral2112]

Let me rephrase, this strategy WOULD HAVE worked, before I had to out. Now it is basically suicide.

[zimmah]

General, as a fellow race-less let's have a drink tonight, drink's on me.

[safariguy5]

My vote isn't still on theGeneral so much as his doc claim, but more for the fact that he hasn't added the flavor yet, so it's really just a half-claim. I'd like him to claim what monster/being he is before I unvote because then we can get an idea of what might be town monsters and what may be mafia fakeclaim monsters.

Also, while I am pointing this out again, I'm going to say that it is not mentioned what type of monster/being I am in my role PM. Only that I was hired by the evil wizard of the village to protect his minions.

ATTACK SAFARIGUY5

Unless anyone can confirm that they are called a specific monster in their role.

Yep, I know exactly what I am. I'm an Orc. So you either didn't read your role completely (skimming a role PM) or you are trying to hide something from us. Yes I was recruited by the evil wizard, but I know what I am.

Nobody else has confirmed that they received a specific monster claim. Until then, this is where my vote stays.

As far as your questions with the cop, it is simple. Cop should out now. Then we can put a doc and a watcher on him. It doesn't matter if he is roleblocked, the watcher will see who roleblocks him. Then we lynch that person tomorrow. Otherwise, yes, cop continues to investigate and clear townies. Then he doesn't out his innos, because mid/late game, he will have a list of innos. By deduction, you will reach an autowin point at which you can lynch all non-confirmed players. Some of those will be townies, but at a certain point, it doesn't matter because you will have time to lynch every single non-confirmed before mafia win.

Also, fastposted, read this Zimmah.^^^^^

So under your strategy, watcher would have to reveal himself and the Doctor after the cop is claimed in order to catch mafia. Great, why don't we just massclaim and give mafia the pick of the power roles to kill one by one. If I trade one town power role for 1 mafia, that's fine. Once you start talking about two or three, that's where things start getting dicey.

[DoomYoshi]

we can't punish hm for doing what he thought to be best for town. he probably understands by now that what he did is considered wrong around here.

We are not punishing him for doing what he thought was best for town. We are punishing him for not properly thinking. We are punishing him for deciding that he wants to lose the game. If you can prove that he considers his strategy wrong, then you will be correct. However, his recent posts show no evidence of that. As of yet, he still hasn't proved WHY or HOW his strategy will work. All he has proven is that he can rave like a lunatic.

[DoomYoshi]

Also, we can put a doc AND a watcher on him? Who the hell says we have a watcher? Where did this information come from general?