thegreekdog wrote:PLAYER57832 wrote:thegreekdog wrote:PLAYER57832 wrote:PAY ATTENTION.. PLEASE!!!
Because it is absolutely and entirely there. And....use the same skills you would if you were defending/investigating a client's claims. Also, of course there are good schools out there....but
I do not think there is a plot by Republicans or Democrats to limit funds to education so that they can easily control the masses. If you do think that, you're a conspiracy theorist, plain and simple, and can be ignored with impunity.
Democrats and Republican? Of coures not. And.. its not necessarily and intentional plot as such. I can bring out the evidence, but it will have to be later, probably after the holidays.
Okay good. Here's the evidence you need to provide to convince me - Studies and other assorted legal and commercial documents showing that there is a group or groups of people with the authority and ability to distort the education in the United States with the intent of dumbing down the populace. If you can't provide these things, don't bother providing the "evidence" you're going to bring out.
First of all, you are distorting what I am saying, either intentionally or unintentionally. What you are asking for, when you imply a conspiracy, is
causation. That is something different. I referred to correlation. I have mentioned "causation", also, but in no way the kind of conspiracy to which you refer... not
at all. (I get to that later).
First, the esay part: There IS a correlation. Just look at what has happened in education, funding, etc... and who is in power. The evidence shows that the quality of education is going down, the cost is going up, more and more opportunities are being shoved overseas.. and the education system is being more and more "reformed" to meet nonexistant needs or the needs of companies like Walmart. This is happening exactly as things are getting better and better for those at the very top. And, given that education is the one route that allows Americans, historically, to migrate up the economic ladder, the result is absolutely real and true that this is contributing to even more of a divide projected in the future...a divide that is already increasing.
Specific policies that are making this worse include the whole "no child left behind bit" (patterned after Texas which now has one of the absolute worst public education systems in the country!), increased mandates while at the same time funding gets decreased, etc. The biggest problem right now, with schools is that many are asked to do more and more of the parent's jobs, just to even be halfway effective, and have less and less time to do their real job of teaching. Very high numbers for subsidized lunches, kids showing up in the winter with no coats, etc, etc..... these things are very real, not just in "inner city" schools, bur rural districts all over the country. We have a problem with obesity, but our local elementary school doesn't even let kids outside after October 1rst , except for occasional special snow activities that require special parental permission. Why? Because about half the kids show up in thin dresses, t-shirts and no jacket even in a snowstorm! And... half of those just don't have better clothing (though there is no excuse for that.. the local churches and salvation army both, along with the school itself, have winter clothing available). That is just one very, very small example. We can berate the parents or we can buckle down, accept that the parents are idiots and do what has to be done to make sure that those kids at least have a reasonable chance to take a different route than their parents. (NOTE: I am talking elementary school, here... higher up, the student rightfully MUST have more responsibility!).
Anyway, the result has been a sliding educational system that costs more and more, but is less and less effective. Note that the same folks voting for, approving so many of these mandates are often sending their kids to schools with very different policies (that, alone, speaks of disgusting hypocrisy).
The "causation" bit is more difficult and unless you want to read a book, which you have indicated in the past you do not, I cannot lay it ALL out here (which is part of why I said "pay attention"... also, the exact circumstances and situation differ slightly in various areas, and these people are very, very smart at hiding the results of what they are putting forward).
I wrote about a local parent meeting in the thread about the skills gap. I am dead serious that I was alone out of 20 people to put history, science, etc on my list of what I expected the school to give kids. That was dismissed as well.. that's technical, we want our kids to be 'good people' ". AND ... that attitude is very prominant in smaller towns (especially) across the country. Why? Because they are being told by the people to whom they listen... sometimes clergy, sometimes "political" types (local leaders, Tea Partiers, etc.) That this "educational elite" garbage is destroying our nation, that most scientists are out to "get" the churches, just promoting their "agendas". Etc.
For causation.. it is not that they are saying "hey, let's destroy the educational system". Its similar to, well.. make that exactly like what is happening with young earth creationism. There are the people who just listen and either are too busy to care or just don't know any better than to believe what they are being told (particularly when its clergy doing the "telling"). Then you have the "sincere" people. I know that the Morris's (both father and son, with whom I have spoken) are sincere in their beliefs. They really and truly believe they are promoting "God's word".. and therefore just plain will NOT see anything different. In their minds, listening to the "opposition" is like listening to the devil.. sounds good, but full of lies. Thirdly, you have the folks for whom I reserve my real anger. They are true manipulators. They don't really care about the "message", per se. They are political leaders and business leaders and another group that is harder to define, the folks who just plain seek "power". (they tend to laugh at those who use their own money to run for themselves) BUT.. here is an important point. Even these people do not really see themselves as "evil" or "doing harm". Some honestly have convinced themselves that what is good for them IS good for all. (and, have done an excellent job of convincing many that this is true). Some have a true "Machiavellien" outlook.. more or less figuring that its "screw or be screwed". Many just see it all as some kind of big "game" and just never really fully "get" how much their "games" impact average people... The bottom line is that for a LOT of reasons they don't really and truly connect negative outcomes for "the masses" with their actions.
I can get into this more, but in the past you have pretty much just dismissed evidence I have brought up, etc. So, rather than saying more right now, I will just let this lie and see what issues you have.
I cannot believe you steered this far off course.
