Istanbul [Quenched]

[natty dread]

Yeah it doesn't quite work, why is the fold only visible on the sea?

[ISN2]

I want a final list of TODOs for this map, I'm tired of making changes and then someone thinks hey let's change the other thing too, this was a contest and was supposed to have the winning map a few changes if required, Not completely changing everything ...

As for the fold I already discussed it, if it's not cool, let me know to remove it like what the map was before it, about changing the placement of names told by isaiah40, I will do that too as soon as I get a final to do list from blue guys ...

[thenobodies80]

About the fold I think it looks better without it.
For the list of things you asked, I'll talk with the other guys to see what they think. (personally I'm happy as soon as you remove the fold).

I'll let you know their thoughts asap.

Nobodies

[DiM]

I want a final list of TODOs for this map, I'm tired of making changes and then someone thinks hey let's change the other thing too, this was a contest and was supposed to have the winning map a few changes if required, Not completely changing everything ...

that's not how map making works.

judging by the lack of interest shown by the map maker and his perception of the map making process depicted in the quote above i think it would be best to see this map binned

[AndyDufresne]

I want a final list of TODOs for this map, I'm tired of making changes and then someone thinks hey let's change the other thing too, this was a contest and was supposed to have the winning map a few changes if required, Not completely changing everything ...

that's not how map making works.

judging by the lack of interest shown by the map maker and his perception of the map making process depicted in the quote above i think it would be best to see this map binned

I like the map too much to see it binned.


--Andy

[DiM]

I want a final list of TODOs for this map, I'm tired of making changes and then someone thinks hey let's change the other thing too, this was a contest and was supposed to have the winning map a few changes if required, Not completely changing everything ...

that's not how map making works.

judging by the lack of interest shown by the map maker and his perception of the map making process depicted in the quote above i think it would be best to see this map binned

I like the map too much to see it binned.


--Andy

i like it too and after seeing the contest entries i agree it's a deserved winner but you can see for yourself how "often" the map is updated and how "eager" isn2 is to work with the foundry to improve the map.

cut him/her some slack and before you know it everybody will use ultimatums like:

"give me a final todo list cause i don't feel like working too much"

[thenobodies80]

As for the fold I already discussed it, if it's not cool, let me know to remove it like what the map was before it, about changing the placement of names told by isaiah40, I will do that too as soon as I get a final to do list from blue guys ...

I can confirm to you that from our part the only concerns are about the fold. In addition what Isaiah40 has already suggested to you here. Everything else looks ready to go.

In any case, since for you this one is the first map to reach the beta stage and you talked about a final to-do list, let me state clear that the beta stamp doesn't mean that the map is finished, in fact :

Once the gameplay, graphics and XML stamps have been awarded, and the Foundry Foreman deems the map ready; your map will enter the Beta phase. This stage is the final testing ground to ensure that there are no critical graphical or gameplay concerns, and to catch any mistakes or omissions in the XML. Beta maps are not completely finished: It is possible that gameplay, graphics or the XML may need to be altered and tweaked in order to add further clarity and perfection to the map. The cartographer(s) must be willing to engage in updating their map, and if any bugs or imbalances that are found they must be attended to in a timely manner by the cartographer(s) or other people designated to fix and alleviate any issues that arise.

Not saying it will happen to your map, I just want that you are well aware about the possibility.

Nobodies

[ISN2]

Last Edition:
Large:

Click image to enlarge.

Small:

Click image to enlarge.

XML:

Code: Select all

<?xml version="1.0"?>
<map>
   <!-- Istanbul -->
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      <name>Esenler</name>
      <bonus>2</bonus>
      <components>
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         <territory>50. Yil Mh.</territory>
      </components>
   </continent>
   <continent>
      <name>Gaziosmanpasa</name>
      <bonus>3</bonus>
      <components>
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         <territory>Yenidogan Mh.</territory>
         <territory>Mevlana Mh.</territory>
         <territory>Guzeltepe Mh.</territory>
      </components>
   </continent>
   <continent>
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      <bonus>3</bonus>
      <components>
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         <territory>Besiktas</territory>
         <territory>Etiler Mh.</territory>
      </components>
   </continent>
   <continent>
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      <bonus>3</bonus>
      <components>
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         <territory>Kuloglu Mh.</territory>
         <territory>Yildiz Sarayi</territory>
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         <territory>Zeytinburnu</territory>
         <territory>Zeytinlik Mh.</territory>
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         <territory>Elmalikent Mh.</territory>
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         <border>Ferah Mh.</border>
         <border>Fetih Mh.</border>
         <border>Atasehir Ataturk Mh.</border>
      </borders>
      <coordinates>
         <smallx>471</smallx>
         <smally>329</smally>
         <largex>625</largex>
         <largey>430</largey>
      </coordinates>
   </territory>
   <territory>
      <name>Ferah Mh.</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Goksu Mh.</border>
         <border>Elmalikent Mh.</border>
         <border>Atakent Mh.</border>
         <border>Fetih Mh.</border>
         <border>Unalan Mh.</border>
         <border>Uskudar</border>
      </borders>
      <coordinates>
         <smallx>408</smallx>
         <smally>261</smally>
         <largex>542</largex>
         <largey>343</largey>
      </coordinates>
   </territory>
   <territory>
      <name>Uskudar</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Besiktas</border>
         <border>Saray Mh.</border>
         <border>Ferah Mh.</border>
         <border>Unalan Mh.</border>
         <border>Zuhtupasa Mh.</border>
         <border>Ayazma Mh.</border>
         <border>Atasehir Ataturk Mh.</border>
      </borders>
      <coordinates>
         <smallx>368</smallx>
         <smally>313</smally>
         <largex>492</largex>
         <largey>409</largey>
      </coordinates>
   </territory>
   <territory>
      <name>Unalan Mh.</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Ferah Mh.</border>
         <border>Uskudar</border>
         <border>Zuhtupasa Mh.</border>
         <border>Fetih Mh.</border>
      </borders>
      <coordinates>
         <smallx>404</smallx>
         <smally>338</smally>
         <largex>540</largex>
         <largey>444</largey>
      </coordinates>
   </territory>
   <territory>
      <name>Fetih Mh.</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Atakent Mh.</border>
         <border>Ferah Mh.</border>
         <border>Unalan Mh.</border>
         <border>Zuhtupasa Mh.</border>
         <border>Kadikoy</border>
         <border>Atasehir</border>
         <border>Atasehir Ataturk Mh.</border>
      </borders>
      <coordinates>
         <smallx>434</smallx>
         <smally>389</smally>
         <largex>578</largex>
         <largey>509</largey>
      </coordinates>
   </territory>
   <territory>
      <name>Atasehir Ataturk Mh.</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Saray Mh.</border>
         <border>Atakent Mh.</border>
         <border>Fetih Mh.</border>
         <border>Uskudar</border>
         <border>Zuhtupasa Mh.</border>
         <border>Atasehir</border>
      </borders>
      <coordinates>
         <smallx>493</smallx>
         <smally>380</smally>
         <largex>659</largex>
         <largey>506</largey>
      </coordinates>
   </territory>
   <territory>
      <name>Atasehir</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Atasehir Ataturk Mh.</border>
         <border>Fetih Mh.</border>
         <border>Kadikoy</border>
         <border>Aydinevler Mh.</border>
      </borders>
      <coordinates>
         <smallx>491</smallx>
         <smally>441</smally>
         <largex>645</largex>
         <largey>576</largey>
      </coordinates>
   </territory>
   <territory>
      <name>Aydinevler Mh.</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Kadikoy</border>
         <border>Atasehir</border>
      </borders>
      <coordinates>
         <smallx>480</smallx>
         <smally>470</smally>
         <largex>643</largex>
         <largey>620</largey>
      </coordinates>
   </territory>
   <territory>
      <name>Kadikoy</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Aydinevler Mh.</border>
         <border>Atasehir</border>
         <border>Fetih Mh.</border>
         <border>Zuhtupasa Mh.</border>
         <border>Fenerbahce Mh.</border>
      </borders>
      <coordinates>
         <smallx>422</smallx>
         <smally>443</smally>
         <largex>565</largex>
         <largey>582</largey>
      </coordinates>
   </territory>
   <territory>
      <name>Fenerbahce Mh.</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Kadikoy</border>
         <border>Zuhtupasa Mh.</border>
         <border>Zeytinlik Mh.</border>
      </borders>
      <coordinates>
         <smallx>373</smallx>
         <smally>458</smally>
         <largex>494</largex>
         <largey>598</largey>
      </coordinates>
   </territory>
   <territory>
      <name>Zuhtupasa Mh.</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Fenerbahce Mh.</border>
         <border>Kadikoy</border>
         <border>Fetih Mh.</border>
         <border>Unalan Mh.</border>
         <border>Uskudar</border>
         <border>Ayazma Mh.</border>
         <border>Atasehir Ataturk Mh.</border>
         <border>Topkapi</border>
      </borders>
      <coordinates>
         <smallx>342</smallx>
         <smally>392</smally>
         <largex>456</largex>
         <largey>516</largey>
      </coordinates>
   </territory>
   <territory>
      <name>Ayazma Mh.</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Uskudar</border>
         <border>Zuhtupasa Mh.</border>
         <border>Kuloglu Mh.</border>
      </borders>
      <coordinates>
         <smallx>300</smallx>
         <smally>333</smally>
         <largex>403</largex>
         <largey>438</largey>
      </coordinates>
   </territory>
   <!-- Map By ISN2 -->
</map>

[ISN2]

As for the fold I already discussed it, if it's not cool, let me know to remove it like what the map was before it, about changing the placement of names told by isaiah40, I will do that too as soon as I get a final to do list from blue guys ...

I can confirm to you that from our part the only concerns are about the fold. In addition what Isaiah40 has already suggested to you here. Everything else looks ready to go.

In any case, since for you this one is the first map to reach the beta stage and you talked about a final to-do list, let me state clear that the beta stamp doesn't mean that the map is finished, in fact :

Once the gameplay, graphics and XML stamps have been awarded, and the Foundry Foreman deems the map ready; your map will enter the Beta phase. This stage is the final testing ground to ensure that there are no critical graphical or gameplay concerns, and to catch any mistakes or omissions in the XML. Beta maps are not completely finished: It is possible that gameplay, graphics or the XML may need to be altered and tweaked in order to add further clarity and perfection to the map. The cartographer(s) must be willing to engage in updating their map, and if any bugs or imbalances that are found they must be attended to in a timely manner by the cartographer(s) or other people designated to fix and alleviate any issues that arise.

Not saying it will happen to your map, I just want that you are well aware about the possibility.

Nobodies

Thanks for letting me know final changes, and yes I know it may be needed to change in Beta stage, no problems with that

I want a final list of TODOs for this map, I'm tired of making changes and then someone thinks hey let's change the other thing too, this was a contest and was supposed to have the winning map a few changes if required, Not completely changing everything ...

that's not how map making works.

judging by the lack of interest shown by the map maker and his perception of the map making process depicted in the quote above i think it would be best to see this map binned

And however I thought, I could not see a way to not saying thanks to you for your warm support, so thanks for your warm support

[DiM]

I want a final list of TODOs for this map, I'm tired of making changes and then someone thinks hey let's change the other thing too, this was a contest and was supposed to have the winning map a few changes if required, Not completely changing everything ...

that's not how map making works.

judging by the lack of interest shown by the map maker and his perception of the map making process depicted in the quote above i think it would be best to see this map binned

And however I thought, I could not see a way to not saying thanks to you for your warm support, so thanks for your warm support

like it or not my post had the desired effect of motivating you to finally do an update.
it's not the first time i spread tough love around the foundry and in most cases it works.
so your thanks are accepted:P

[AndyDufresne]

I want a final list of TODOs for this map, I'm tired of making changes and then someone thinks hey let's change the other thing too, this was a contest and was supposed to have the winning map a few changes if required, Not completely changing everything ...

that's not how map making works.

judging by the lack of interest shown by the map maker and his perception of the map making process depicted in the quote above i think it would be best to see this map binned

And however I thought, I could not see a way to not saying thanks to you for your warm support, so thanks for your warm support

like it or not my post had the desired effect of motivating you to finally do an update.
it's not the first time i spread tough love around the foundry and in most cases it works.
so your thanks are accepted:P

Haha, you might be giving yourself a little too much credit there DiM.

Best of Luck, ISN2,


--Andy

[thenobodies80]

Last Call

The map has passed through rigorous gameplay and graphics examinations and all major concerns have been addressed. If you have any other concerns, please make your voice heard. If after a reasonable amount of time there has not been any objection or protest, the map will be stamped and submitted for the Beta period.

Please, post questions and concerns if any.

thenobodies80

[cairnswk]

ISN2 and tnb80.
I'm almost happy with this one after overlooking it.
It's not a big one, but on the small map, i feel the placement of the army circle for Atesehir could be moved to the upper left of that region and the text name could then be straightened across the bottom and thus wouldn't clash so much with the large region name above it. It just looks a little untidy as it is now.
Up to you to change or not.

[thenobodies80]

ISN2 can you change that small thing before I send the files to lackattack? I have to say that cairnswk is right on this one.

Nobodies

[ISN2]

ISN2 can you change that small thing before I send the files to lackattack? I have to say that cairnswk is right on this one.

Nobodies

OK, I will fix it when I get home and I get time ...

[thenobodies80]

Perfect, fix them as soon as you can.
I was thinking that that change it's just a minor thing so there's nothing that hold this map from being stamped for the Beta stage, so for now let me send these files to Lack and see how it plays.....the stamp will come in few mins, just the time to double check everything again and send the files.

[thenobodies80]

Beta - Quenching

---The Final Forge period has concluded for the Istanbul Map. All objections have had their time. The Foundry and I hereby brand this map with the Foundry Beta Brand. Let it be known that this map is now ready for BETA Play. After an extended period of time in BETA and once all quirks and issues have been resolved, the map will be put into Full Play (barring any Lack vetoes).

Conquer Club, enjoy!

While the map is in BETA Play, there are a couple of administrative tasks that are required of the mapmaker(s) in addition to the initial gameplay testing:

1. Please ensure that the first post of the thread contains all the necessary information to help future visitors to the development thread; it's particularly important to ensure the most recent images are there, along with any helpful guides (such as gameplay quirks/nuances or the location/size of any starting neutrals etc.)
2. Finally, it is the responsibility of the mapmaker(s) to ensure that they respond to further feedback in a timely and constructive manner.

thenobodies80

[pamoa]

nice poppy small map
but please do something about those 2 and 3 territories zone one can get the bonus at drop
starting position, neutrals or only +1
as you want
I just had a game where my opponent got +5 at the drop !!!

[HighlanderAttack]

drop the bonuses down and I think this is a real good map

2=1
3=1
4=2
6=3
8=4

No need to have them so large with a small to medium map. Makes for a much better game.

[shoop76]

drop the bonuses down and I think this is a real good map

2=1
3=1
4=2
6=3
8=4

No need to have them so large with a small to medium map. Makes for a much better game.

I agree. To easy to get a big, quick bonus. Otherwise great map.

[Gilligan]

I suggest having one of Umraniye be a starting neutral

[istanbul39]

Just some suggestions here:

We are missing the most recognized names in the city.
Beyoglu?
Taksim?
Sultan Ahmet?
Levent?

Kadikoy? (it is in the wrong spot. It should be on the Bogazici waterfront facing west)

And also with the connections, identify the metro stations. I would go to an istanbul public transportaion map http://www.iett.gov.tr/en/ and look at the more accurate identifications.

Good start though!

[Peter Gibbons]

drop the bonuses down and I think this is a real good map

2=1
3=1
4=2
6=3
8=4

No need to have them so large with a small to medium map. Makes for a much better game.

I agree. To easy to get a big, quick bonus. Otherwise great map.

Funny, I was going to come in here to make almost an opposite claim. I dropped Besiktas in a game for the +3... but there are 8 attack routes in for a 3-territory bonus. Makes it almost impossible to defend and, though I've barely kept it in that game, I'm probably the weakest player at the moment.

The situation appears very similar for the other small bonuses, too. I don't think the bonuses are high at all, because if you can keep them, you've definitely earned them--there are no easy bonuses with only 2 or 3 routes in. Look how many attack routes there are into the +2s; the highway system makes things a lot different than other maps that might seem similar.

I won't suggest an increase in the bonus count, because I don't think that will fly. But I would definitely oppose a decrease. I'd suggest splitting bonus areas before a decrease. But I like it as is... gives a different dynamic than other maps.

[ISN2]

nice poppy small map
but please do something about those 2 and 3 territories zone one can get the bonus at drop
starting position, neutrals or only +1
as you want
I just had a game where my opponent got +5 at the drop !!!

drop the bonuses down and I think this is a real good map

2=1
3=1
4=2
6=3
8=4

No need to have them so large with a small to medium map. Makes for a much better game.

I agree. To easy to get a big, quick bonus. Otherwise great map.

I was going to say something like what Peter Gibbons said below, +2 for 2 territories seems large, but what when those 2 territories can be attacked by 6-8 other territories?

The only bad thing could be starting first with a bonus on a 1v1 game, and I guess Gilligan's suggestion could be a good idea, we get the 2 continents with +2 starting with 1 natural.

But I still would like to hear more opinions about this.

Funny, I was going to come in here to make almost an opposite claim. I dropped Besiktas in a game for the +3... but there are 8 attack routes in for a 3-territory bonus. Makes it almost impossible to defend and, though I've barely kept it in that game, I'm probably the weakest player at the moment.

The situation appears very similar for the other small bonuses, too. I don't think the bonuses are high at all, because if you can keep them, you've definitely earned them--there are no easy bonuses with only 2 or 3 routes in. Look how many attack routes there are into the +2s; the highway system makes things a lot different than other maps that might seem similar.

I won't suggest an increase in the bonus count, because I don't think that will fly. But I would definitely oppose a decrease. I'd suggest splitting bonus areas before a decrease. But I like it as is... gives a different dynamic than other maps.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Just some suggestions here:

We are missing the most recognized names in the city.
Beyoglu?
Taksim?
Sultan Ahmet?
Levent?

Kadikoy? (it is in the wrong spot. It should be on the Bogazici waterfront facing west)

And also with the connections, identify the metro stations. I would go to an istanbul public transportaion map http://www.iett.gov.tr/en/ and look at the more accurate identifications.

Good start though!

Thanks for the suggestions but I believe that we aren't at a point to change the game play, maybe just changing the some names if you could give me more info about what should be exactly where!?, btw Beyoglu is there already as a continent.

[istanbul39]

OK, please read as suggestions, and not critical. I am very grateful to the sites map makers. You guys rock!

Bostanci from Aydinevler
Taksim from Kuloglu
Nisantisi from Yildiz Saray
Sisli from Piri Pasa
Aksaray from Fatih
Golden Horn or Sultan Ahmet from Continent, Fatih

Also, you have the soon to be Metro that runs under the Bogaz. Google Marmaray Tunnel project.

It is embarrassing how wrong the Google map is. Besiktas is not even close to where it shows on the map, and so many other location errors. I hope the military doesn't rely on Google maps for tactical strikes!