[Official] NBC Mafia Town Win MVP=trinicardinal

[dazza2008]

Hey guys, sorry, I posted yesterday but apparently it didn't load? Anyway, I tested strikes claim and he was inno.

I'm getting pretty frustrated right now, but I'd like to keep playing and see if i can get anything useful.

lol, i got to say that is probably the worse person you could ve asked a report for... so you were not roleblocked, as i suggested.

I agree. Why did you not go for 1 of the guys everyone was suspisious of Jim?

[Epitaph1]

I don't understand why strike was a bad target. Some people openly questioned whether or not he used a fakeclaim yesterday. Just because he claimed, doesn't mean the cop should have avoided him.

[jimfinn]

I don't understand why strike was a bad target. Some people openly questioned whether or not he used a fakeclaim yesterday. Just because he claimed, doesn't mean the cop should have avoided him.

Exactly - the open question of a whether he was innocent or fakeclaiming needed to be resolved before we could trust him, and he seemed fairly useful to the town if town. So I chose to investigate him

[trinicardinal]

Hey guys, sorry, I posted yesterday but apparently it didn't load? Anyway, I tested strikes claim and he was inno.

I'm getting pretty frustrated right now, but I'd like to keep playing and see if i can get anything useful.

lol, i got to say that is probably the worse person you could ve asked a report for... so you were not roleblocked, as i suggested.

I agree. Why did you not go for 1 of the guys everyone was suspisious of Jim?

unfortunately I will have to agree that jim's investigation did not help us in this instance. I can fully understand why he decided to investigate strike but ended up working against us. I am glad, though that jim is still interested in moving forward with us and I can undrstand his frustration. His result does also tell us that he was not roleblocked but I don't see how that really helps us out either

Coming back to my list then we have:

Leitz - claimed Sally One Way Lover
MoB Deadly - no claim
jimfinn - claim Cop
shieldgenerator7 replaced by pancakemix - no claim
dazza2008 -Behemoth VT
trinicardinal - no claim
Epitaph1 - no claim
betiko - no claim
MeDeFe - no claim
chapcrap - no claim but considered to have softclaimed VT after the Rodion case

I'd say we would need to start by asking some questions of the people. highlighted in red. Those in green would be the secondary list

I'm going to start with PCM if only because he has replaced SG7 who was already seeming a bit scummy to me (although I understand this may be fairly normal for sg7)

either way since PCM came into the game his contributions were as follows (ignoring his confirmation):

Pancake will have the difficult task to read all this and to reincarnate a player that was very high on my suspect list.

Always a good sign.

Well, as far as that goes, I can say nothing in shield's defense. No other person I know has ever had such an aptitude for finding ways to screw himself up. I think other, more experienced voices would agree. He's on at least one foe list in this forum for his antics, I know for sure.

Now, on to game matters. As I was reading, this post kinda caught my attention.

Unvote Vote BG his defence has not sounded convincing to me and he sounds frustrated at being noticed so early. This case is a lot stronger than the betiko case. As BG said someone needs to get pressured and I think he is the best candidate for that now.

Two things about this post struck me as kind of odd:

1. Reasoning. It's pretty meh. "I wasn't convinced" and "It's stronger than the other case" don't mean anything (unless "stronger" means "has more votes on it", in which case that says quite a bit, now doesn't it?). These are just generic things to say about a vote to make it sound reasonable, and serve to keep the vote coming in for that person (and indirectly, that's what ended up getting BG lynched, following the Swifte diversion).

2. Placement. It's about fourth or fifth, which is well within the range of the "wagon window", as it were. This fits in pretty much with what I was saying with trying to get the votes rolling in.

Of course, dazza immediately backs off as soon as BG claims (despite the VT claim and with no source knowledge):

unvote I believe BG's claim. I have not seen the film but did a search to see what there was. It seems there has to be characters that are less common as there seems not to be too many. I found the one BG claimed and I can't see why he would not be VT.

..and latches immediately onto the next case that starts gaining some steam:

As far as trying to slip in to the background, I'm still right here, answering questions, and standing by my opinions untill I hear something better.

Well not really pal. You never commented on what chap and drunkmonkey said. You have been very non-commital and do seem to be trying to look helpful without saying alot. This seems like the best case to me right now as I have already stated my reasons for believing BG's claim so vote Swifte

...by not even making an effort to rehash things other people said:

I think not only has Swifte been non-committal, but even in his case against BG, he uses a lot of words but doesn't really say a whole lot.

Again, backs off as soon after a claim.

unvote

Granted, it's the doc this time, but are you seeing a pattern here? Because it happened again with jimfinn.

Vote Jimfinn I find it very suspicious he only comes on when he recieved a vote and when he did he said nothing really. Seems he just wanted to appear active without getting involved.

unvote

So what I'm seeing here is a follow-the-leader game of trying to seem helpful and just riding the wave. That's scum play at its most basic.

As for the offering to hammer on the bomb, I'm calling shenanigans. Chap had already offered to hammer, so why bother saying you'd do it? Either you were skimming and didn't see the offer/request for him to claim or you were just trying to make yourself seem like a good little townie in a waving your arms and making lots of noise shouting "LOOK AT ME I'M TOWN!!!!1!!", and that's not something a townie would do.

Vote dazza

ADDENDUM BEFORE POST: I wrote all of that before I reached lietz' case. I disagree with his assertion that dazza was flip-flopping, but I'll say he was either confident he wouldn't get blown up or confident he wouldn't be hammering.

And while I'm on that, I'm thinking Rodion's PM probably said he was a bomb to cause exactly the scenario that occurred.

I unvoted BG because I know how he plays. We play mafia in our clan forum and from his game play I would never expect him to claim VT if he was scum on day 1. He would try something else in an attempt to survive. Scum claiming VT would normally get lynched.

I would say that generally any player wouldn't claim VT unless it was true. So that argument doesn't work. And guess what? It still got him lynched. Could it be that you knew for a fact that he was telling the truth? And without being psychic of breaking the rules, there's really only one option...

I did hop about from case to case. I never saw anything I could build a stronger case on so I joined in on the case I believed to be the strongest at the time. We never had a lot to go on so what do you want me to do? Just sit here doing nothing?

Well, instead of repeating verbatim what others said you could have added to the case or at least just said "X makes some good points on Y". Still follow-the-leader play, but a bit more discreet.

How on earth could I be confident I would not be blown up? If I was scum I would not have got involved.

Also how could I be confident Chap was going to hammer? I was in bed when the deadline passed and there is no way of me knowing chap would even be online. The only way I could be 100% sure he would hammer is if we were multis and he is in USA and I am in Scotland so thats not likely is it?

This whole case seems like scum trying to take off of a scum-mate.

The character was a clown. It made perfect sense that it was fake right there.

I don't even know what you're trying to read into that. All you had to do was leave it for him to vote and that was it. I'm saying you offered to drop the hammer but you never actually intended to do it. Chap had already put forward that he would do it when you offered, making your offer useless.

As I said, I had not read Lietz' and found it more scattered than anything else. I'm not backing up what he was saying; I came to my conclusion independently from his case.

It's logical you'll find it a pretty weak case as it is a case on you! I've not played mafia for a long time, but I doubt anyone will ever say a case on themselves is a strong case. If you ask me, your defense & arguments are pretty weak.

What more do I need to say? I have claimed its up to you guys to decide if you believe it or not.

All the case is on me is that I offered to hammer after chap offered. I offered because I believed it was a fakeclaim. Maybe after chap offering I should have stayed quiet.

That is basically all your case is on me so what else can I say in defence of it?

That isn't true though. I still think your voting patterns are very telling of someone who's trying to slip through the cracks, and the offer to hammer looks like a move by someone who knows they haven't done much. Your actual contributions to the discussion have been negligible at best up until you became its subject. In my book that's more than just an iffy prospect. On top of that, your move to vote Lietz once the pressure starts lifting does you no favors, nor does your way of going about the move.

Hmmm. I'm still not happy with dazza's responses. They just seem canned to me and I'm not buying it. As far as Lietz goes, I can't see anything beyond general newbieness in his arguments that would lead me to cast a vote (and to his credit, he did try to make a case, even if it wasn't up to snuff). Strike makes some good points on jonty, though I'd like to hear him weigh in on the case against him before I come to a conclusion there.

I'm gonna go ahead and say jim's a lost cause at this point. Replacement would be nice there.

I'm pretty much of the opinion that MeDeFe is, and always will be, a slow talker when it comes to mafia games. He doesn't say much, but he say thoughtful things, and I always appreciate thoughtful posts. I'll wait for right now on that. No need to rush.

PCM was basically concentrating on dazza last day but as part of his case also quoted drunk but appears to be talking as if he was quoting dazza

it may be a small slip but it looks like it might be a slip anyway. I also find his speculation that Rodion's post said bomb when he was actually VT to be a bit far fetched and it looks like he is just using that to try to build the case against dazza.

for now FOS PCM. I'll try to look at the others soon

Fastposted btw

[chapcrap]

MeDeFe, first of all, I don't details about your RL. I don't care about your RL. I care about an explanation about your awful posting habits. You never even addressed it. Here's a hint for you: give some kind of explanation. We don't need every detail, but we need something.

Being overly defensive can be scummy, but not having any defense at all is scummier, IMO. You don't have to react to every little thing, but it would be nice if you acknowledged something once. At least came in and posted when called out. Instead, you do nothing at all for quite a while and then post without addressing anything.

[trinicardinal]

MeDeFe, first of all, I don't details about your RL. I don't care about your RL. I care about an explanation about your awful posting habits. You never even addressed it. Here's a hint for you: give some kind of explanation. We don't need every detail, but we need something.

Being overly defensive can be scummy, but not having any defense at all is scummier, IMO. You don't have to react to every little thing, but it would be nice if you acknowledged something once. At least came in and posted when called out. Instead, you do nothing at all for quite a while and then post without addressing anything.

I gotta agree with chap on that one ignoring everything is definitely going to bring you more on my radar

[MeDeFe]

And what exactly have I ignored this time?

[pancakemix]

PCM was basically concentrating on dazza last day but as part of his case also quoted drunk but appears to be talking as if he was quoting dazza. It may be a small slip but it looks like it might be a slip anyway.

That was my point. Dazza added nothing to the conversation, just restated EXACTLY what drunk said. I dunno about you, but I thought it was scummy.

I also find his speculation that Rodion's post said bomb when he was actually VT to be a bit far fetched and it looks like he is just using that to try to build the case against dazza.

I'll admit, I had the benefit of hindsight on that one. Seems pretty clear to me that anyone who's a clown should not be taken immediately at his word.

And yes, I was building a case on dazza. A case that more than a few agreed with. And quite frankly, I'm still not sold against it. I saw something that didn't sit well with me and went after it. I don't know how else you want me to play.

[betiko]

just to clear out something with jim; my previous post was not meant to make fun of you for investigating strike being the worse choice possible. i was saying that being in day 4 and knowing that he was the night kill. given what happened he was the worse choice but you couldn't ve known.

regarding the 2 cases yes, i agree, medefe i don't think dodging all acusations because you feel they are not strong enough is the best strategy to show your innocence; and pcm's thing about the clown was really lame.

[chapcrap]

And what exactly have I ignored this time?

We were referring to what you ignored before. Everything.

However, you really never gave an explanation for everything either, even though I just asked, so I guess you're ignoring that now. And that isn't an explanation in anyway.

My RL is none of your fucking business.

[safariguy5]

I just want to say that nobody has voted for anyone yet. If there is anyone who you guys would like to be prodded, please say so. Otherwise, I might have to institute a deadline sometime soon.

[MeDeFe]

And what exactly have I ignored this time?

We were referring to what you ignored before. Everything.

And how exactly am I supposed to react to being pressured by eloquence like

MeDeFe?

?

I said it already, for most of the times throughout the game where you "pressured" me and which you claim I've ignored there was nothing to respond with or even to at the time.

However, you really never gave an explanation for everything either, even though I just asked, so I guess you're ignoring that now. And that isn't an explanation in anyway.

My RL is none of your fucking business.

But it's as much as you're getting. If you ask for a reason for why I was posting in bursts with longer stretches of nothing and I say "RL" that's that.

[chapcrap]

I just want to say that nobody has voted for anyone yet. If there is anyone who you guys would like to be prodded, please say so. Otherwise, I might have to institute a deadline sometime soon.

I'm VT. I won't say my character in case mafia try to fake claim it.

If there were a bulletproof, I'm pretty sure if wouldn't be bomb proof, so if I were bulletproof, I still would have died from Rodion's lynch if he were actually bomb.

unvote vote MeDeFe (for previous reason)

Umm...

unvote vote MeDeFe

[MeDeFe]

Come on, give me something concrete to defend myself against. So far your argument circles around my perceived inactivity and your perception that you've been ignored by me. Regarding the first point I've said as much as I will, regarding the second I have asked what you would rather have seen done, because I honestly don't see what I should have done differently.

So you've been pointing out that I've not posted a lot at times throughout this game. What about it? Of course you're right about that, what you're wrong about is your conclusion that I was submarining on account of being scum (which I'm not).

[trinicardinal]

PCM was basically concentrating on dazza last day but as part of his case also quoted drunk but appears to be talking as if he was quoting dazza. It may be a small slip but it looks like it might be a slip anyway.

That was my point. Dazza added nothing to the conversation, just restated EXACTLY what drunk said. I dunno about you, but I thought it was scummy.

I also find his speculation that Rodion's post said bomb when he was actually VT to be a bit far fetched and it looks like he is just using that to try to build the case against dazza.

I'll admit, I had the benefit of hindsight on that one. Seems pretty clear to me that anyone who's a clown should not be taken immediately at his word.

And yes, I was building a case on dazza. A case that more than a few agreed with. And quite frankly, I'm still not sold against it. I saw something that didn't sit well with me and went after it. I don't know how else you want me to play.

pancakemix - please also explain why the following was part of your argument against dazza

I think not only has Swifte been non-committal, but even in his case against BG, he uses a lot of words but doesn't really say a whole lot.

Again, backs off as soon after a claim.

btw I'm not completely sold for the case against dazza nor against it although I do tend to lean more towards believing him for now.

[pancakemix]

unvote I believe BG's claim. I have not seen the film but did a search to see what there was. It seems there has to be characters that are less common as there seems not to be too many. I found the one BG claimed and I can't see why he would not be VT.

..and latches immediately onto the next case that starts gaining some steam:

As far as trying to slip in to the background, I'm still right here, answering questions, and standing by my opinions untill I hear something better.

Well not really pal. You never commented on what chap and drunkmonkey said. You have been very non-commital and do seem to be trying to look helpful without saying alot. This seems like the best case to me right now as I have already stated my reasons for believing BG's claim so vote Swifte

...by not even making an effort to rehash things other people said:

I think not only has Swifte been non-committal, but even in his case against BG, he uses a lot of words but doesn't really say a whole lot.

Again, backs off as soon after a claim.

unvote

This is the context. I though it was pretty clear, but I guess not. Understanding this is important to why I think dazza is scummy.

[pancakemix]

Sorry if that's still not clear I'm running out the door.

[trinicardinal]

Sorry if that's still not clear I'm running out the door.

yeah we still gotta talks om more pcm but I'm also not hearing much from Epitaph either for this day. Epitaph - you were somewhat vocal on Days 2 and 3 but only 2 posts so far - come on folks we need to get some more talk going. my rl is busy but I'm still trying to get some info out there.

[Leitz]

I'll read through D3 in the next few days and I will report back with my findings.

[Epitaph1]

Sorry for not speaking up much today. I should be able to review some things and weigh either tomorrow or Monday.

[chapcrap]

I give up on MeDeFe. No one agrees with me apparently, so there is no point.

[Epitaph1]

Ok, I've finally had some time to review and here are my thoughts.

I like trini's list and think it should be our basis going forward. There are a number of people yet to claim, and I would bet that 3 if not all 4 mafia are on that list (the red names). I'm convinced by the flavor that there are four mafia, being Oogie Boogie + Lock, Shock, and Barrel. However, we know that Jack is still buried on that list b/c, even if Leitz sold us a line, he's too important of a character in the movie to be left out of this game.

Of those on the list, MeDeFe appears the scummiest to me for a few reasons. First and foremost, as chap pointed out, MeDeFe has disappeared for long periods during this game. The most egregious has been in 2012 when he went a whopping 13 days between posts (Jan 5 - Jan 18). While activity has sputtered since the Rodion debacle, MeDeFe has been the worst offender in this regard.

Second, when questioned about his inactivity, MeDeFe's response has been vague and overly defensive for someone who has apparently been held up in RL (that is why he was inactive, right? I still didn't glean a clear answer to his lack of contribution). I completely respect keeping RL and CC separate and I think most other people here respect that as well. So, if that is really the reason holding up MeDeFe, a simple "hey guys, I'm bogged down in RL right now, I'll post when I can" usually suffices for mafia. I've never seen anyone ask for specifics to vet someone's RL story because people respect the privacy of others' RL. If RL really is too much, don't people usually contact the mod and politely withdraw?

Finally, and this is admittedly the most tenuous reason for suspecting MeDeFe but I thought I would put in on record just as food for thought, if MeDeFe was townie, why haven't more people tried pushing for a vote on him? Of the 6 red names on the list, as many as 4 of those could be mafia and it seems like they would be pushing for a lynch of one they know to be town to avoid any scrutiny. It seems like MeDeFe is being protected, maybe not vocally, but in a more passive manner through lack of votes.

Vote MeDeFe

@trini: I'm still considering your thoughts on PCM but having a hard time getting a read on him since he came in late and SG7 was useless. For now, I think there may be more to MeDeFe.

[betiko]

Ok, I've finally had some time to review and here are my thoughts.

I like trini's list and think it should be our basis going forward. There are a number of people yet to claim, and I would bet that 3 if not all 4 mafia are on that list (the red names). I'm convinced by the flavor that there are four mafia, being Oogie Boogie + Lock, Shock, and Barrel. However, we know that Jack is still buried on that list b/c, even if Leitz sold us a line, he's too important of a character in the movie to be left out of this game.

Of those on the list, MeDeFe appears the scummiest to me for a few reasons. First and foremost, as chap pointed out, MeDeFe has disappeared for long periods during this game. The most egregious has been in 2012 when he went a whopping 13 days between posts (Jan 5 - Jan 18). While activity has sputtered since the Rodion debacle, MeDeFe has been the worst offender in this regard.

Second, when questioned about his inactivity, MeDeFe's response has been vague and overly defensive for someone who has apparently been held up in RL (that is why he was inactive, right? I still didn't glean a clear answer to his lack of contribution). I completely respect keeping RL and CC separate and I think most other people here respect that as well. So, if that is really the reason holding up MeDeFe, a simple "hey guys, I'm bogged down in RL right now, I'll post when I can" usually suffices for mafia. I've never seen anyone ask for specifics to vet someone's RL story because people respect the privacy of others' RL. If RL really is too much, don't people usually contact the mod and politely withdraw?

Finally, and this is admittedly the most tenuous reason for suspecting MeDeFe but I thought I would put in on record just as food for thought, if MeDeFe was townie, why haven't more people tried pushing for a vote on him? Of the 6 red names on the list, as many as 4 of those could be mafia and it seems like they would be pushing for a lynch of one they know to be town to avoid any scrutiny. It seems like MeDeFe is being protected, maybe not vocally, but in a more passive manner through lack of votes.

Vote MeDeFe

@trini: I'm still considering your thoughts on PCM but having a hard time getting a read on him since he came in late and SG7 was useless. For now, I think there may be more to MeDeFe.

i don't know medefe outside of this game, and i am not willing to make any conclusion just based on how he reacted for a certain inactivity. like if lots of shit happened and you have a many urgent stuff to deal with a mafia game can be the last thing you think of.. he's been a bit rude and defensive about it, i admit but that isn't big enough for a vote.
and yes, i think that we all agree that there are 4 mafias; the scenes described clearly oogie boogie after swifte's death, and the 3 kids after strike's death. it seems pretty obvious leitz is in love with jack, and pretty sure jack's role was linked to strike's, as zero is his dog..

4 mafias including a roleblocker
1 cop
1 one way lover
1 guy that kills leitz if he dies and has been talking to strike every night
1 busdriver
2 VTs

that's my new list.

[jimfinn]

I'd kind of like to see a massclaim at this point. We're getting dang close to trouble, and can't afford more mislynches. We need something to go on, and I think a massclaim might be justified

[trinicardinal]

Ok, I've finally had some time to review and here are my thoughts.

I like trini's list and think it should be our basis going forward. There are a number of people yet to claim, and I would bet that 3 if not all 4 mafia are on that list (the red names). I'm convinced by the flavor that there are four mafia, being Oogie Boogie + Lock, Shock, and Barrel. However, we know that Jack is still buried on that list b/c, even if Leitz sold us a line, he's too important of a character in the movie to be left out of this game.

Of those on the list, MeDeFe appears the scummiest to me for a few reasons. First and foremost, as chap pointed out, MeDeFe has disappeared for long periods during this game. The most egregious has been in 2012 when he went a whopping 13 days between posts (Jan 5 - Jan 18). While activity has sputtered since the Rodion debacle, MeDeFe has been the worst offender in this regard.

Second, when questioned about his inactivity, MeDeFe's response has been vague and overly defensive for someone who has apparently been held up in RL (that is why he was inactive, right? I still didn't glean a clear answer to his lack of contribution). I completely respect keeping RL and CC separate and I think most other people here respect that as well. So, if that is really the reason holding up MeDeFe, a simple "hey guys, I'm bogged down in RL right now, I'll post when I can" usually suffices for mafia. I've never seen anyone ask for specifics to vet someone's RL story because people respect the privacy of others' RL. If RL really is too much, don't people usually contact the mod and politely withdraw?

Finally, and this is admittedly the most tenuous reason for suspecting MeDeFe but I thought I would put in on record just as food for thought, if MeDeFe was townie, why haven't more people tried pushing for a vote on him? Of the 6 red names on the list, as many as 4 of those could be mafia and it seems like they would be pushing for a lynch of one they know to be town to avoid any scrutiny. It seems like MeDeFe is being protected, maybe not vocally, but in a more passive manner through lack of votes.

Vote MeDeFe

@trini: I'm still considering your thoughts on PCM but having a hard time getting a read on him since he came in late and SG7 was useless. For now, I think there may be more to MeDeFe.

i don't know medefe outside of this game, and i am not willing to make any conclusion just based on how he reacted for a certain inactivity. like if lots of shit happened and you have a many urgent stuff to deal with a mafia game can be the last thing you think of.. he's been a bit rude and defensive about it, i admit but that isn't big enough for a vote.
and yes, i think that we all agree that there are 4 mafias; the scenes described clearly oogie boogie after swifte's death, and the 3 kids after strike's death. it seems pretty obvious leitz is in love with jack, and pretty sure jack's role was linked to strike's, as zero is his dog..

4 mafias including a roleblocker
1 cop
1 one way lover
1 guy that kills leitz if he dies and has been talking to strike every night
1 busdriver
2 VTs

that's my new list.

@ Epitaph

MeDeFe has definitely been agressive (to the point of rudeness?) in relation to his response which makes him an automatic suspect from that point of view - its a small scum tell ... the problem we have with anyone is that there has been generally been only small scumtells - and I agree its hard to get a read on pcm - he came in late and has not posted much... in many ways its sounds ideal for a mafia member doesn't it? But it is hard to be sure.

let's combine betiko's new list and mine

Claimed Roles (4)

1 cop - jimfinn
1 one way lover - Leitz
2 VTs - chap and dazza

4 mafias including a roleblocker (6)-
1 guy that kills leitz if he dies and has been talking to strike every night
1 busdriver

MoB Deadly - no claim
pancakemix (replaced sg7) - no claim
trinicardinal - no claim
Epitaph1 - no claim
betiko - no claim
MeDeFe - no claim

if we accept what epitaph is saying and that at least 3 of these folks are mafia if not 4, 1 is bus driver and 1 is Jack - I'm seriously considering

I'd kind of like to see a massclaim at this point. We're getting dang close to trouble, and can't afford more mislynches. We need something to go on, and I think a massclaim might be justified

jim has a point to some extent.