US Senate: 1,000+ Days Since Previous Budget

[Phatscotty]

If you think the millionaires and billionaires should pay their fair share to the government, then I hope you also agree that the 4 trillion dollar yearly government budget should not be spending double it's fair share.

[Ray Rider]

Dude, who cares about unfunded liabilities!?

140 trillion?

No worries! At least good intentions are being fulfilled!

Is enslaving our children and their children into a debt that everyone knows is too big to pay off a good intention?

Suppose I like a lot of debt. I'm a collector of sorts. What then, Phatscotty, what then?

lol

I also found this pretty funny when I read it in the news today:
"Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell said he is so confident even Democrats won't support the president's budget he plans to put it before the chamber for a vote himself. 'It's a campaign document,' McConnell said on the Senate floor. 'The inconvenient truth that President Obama and his own top advisers don't want to admit is that this budget isn't going anywhere because the president's own party doesn't want to have anything to do with it.'''

It really shows what a farce the whole budget is the opposition leader is happy to bring up the budget (which he totally disagrees with) for a vote because he knows it will confirm that even the president's own party will refuse to vote for it!


I have another question, though:

As it stands now appropriations are made through the various Congressional appropriation committees. All the money being spent is thus duly appropriated as per the Constitution, technically...

Okay so I'm probably missing something here but if appropriations are made by various specific committees, who decides who are on those committees? Basically, who is really in charge of spending? If Congressional committees decide where the spending goes and Congress is dominated by Republicans atm, do they ultimately carry much of the blame for this massive overspending even though they say they're against it? How much sway does the president hold over these committees and their decisions?

[rockfist]

If you taxed everyone making over $10,000,000 per year at 100% - you could fund the government under the Obama budget for 18 days. It would be 24, but the average tax paid on those earnings is already 25% so you couldn't actually collect that 25% again...although this is Obama math so I'll say 24 days...

We have a spending problem and there is no way to tax our way out of it.

[ViperOverLord]

As for a campaign issue, the CBO said we could get a balanced budget and keep spending like we do and the only thing that needs to be done is-
Raise the lowest income tax bracket of 10% to 25%
Raise the middle income tax bracket of 25% to 66%
Raise the 35% tax bracket to 92%.
Of course, that's just not feasible. To raise taxes to the required levels would absolutely destroy the nation.

I'm not necessarily convinced it would destroy the nation. It would hurt though. However, were we to do that, we should do it with the intent of getting rid of the damn debt, not keep spending like we are.

There'd be riots in the streets. If you believe that this is doable then you have been brainwashed that you need to work for the machine.

[patches70]

Okay so I'm probably missing something here but if appropriations are made by various specific committees, who decides who are on those committees?

Party leadership picks who is on what committee. The majority leader of the House and Senate respectively pick the chairman for the various House and Senate committees.

Basically, who is really in charge of spending?

Congress.

If Congressional committees decide where the spending goes and Congress is dominated by Republicans atm, do they ultimately carry much of the blame for this massive overspending even though they say they're against it?

The blame goes to Congress as a whole, both parties are spending fools.

How much sway does the president hold over these committees and their decisions?

Not much.


In the US the Congressional committees do all the real work. A few Senators or Representatives sitting around deciding things. They appropriate money to the various agencies and the agencies then distribute the money. All Congress does is order the appropriations and the bureaucracy spends it.

Also government math is messed up. If an agency is prjected to increase in budget by 5% but Congress only raises the budget by 3% from the previous year, that's called a "spending cut". LMAO. Strange but true. That's the majority of US "spending cuts", just increasing budgets at a slightly slower rate.

The GOP recently switched strategies. They used to insist that any increased spending had to be matched by decreased spending somewhere else. On Monday the GOP announced that they would introduce a bill to extend the payroll tax break for another 10 months without offering any spending cuts to offset the cost.
It seems they've decided to just let Obama spend like a drunken whore and wash their hands of it all. The effect this will have is the debt ceiling will be hit even quicker.

This chart below was submitted with Obama's budget. It predicts that in September (remember, this is Obama's prediction) that the debt will be at $16.3339 trillion (highlighted in red). The debt ceiling is $16.4 trillion and with the government spending at $133 billion a month, well, you can see that the debt ceiling is going to be reached long before the actual election.



It seems the new strategy is to go ahead and let Obama crash and burn. There will be no automatic debt ceiling increase this time. To raise it again means a debate and vote. I think the GOP is thinking that is Obama's Achilles heel so to speak.

[patches70]

If Congressional committees decide where the spending goes and Congress is dominated by Republicans atm, do they ultimately carry much of the blame for this massive overspending even though they say they're against it?

You know, in thinking about it for a moment I can't really put the entire blame on Congress. They are just doing what is demanded of them. I suppose the real blame rests on the citizens who have increasingly turned to government "solutions" for every perceived problem that has plagued mankind since we crawled down from the trees.

I guess that to see the real person to blame for the spending one would need only look in the mirror.....

[Woodruff]

As for a campaign issue, the CBO said we could get a balanced budget and keep spending like we do and the only thing that needs to be done is-
Raise the lowest income tax bracket of 10% to 25%
Raise the middle income tax bracket of 25% to 66%
Raise the 35% tax bracket to 92%.
Of course, that's just not feasible. To raise taxes to the required levels would absolutely destroy the nation.

I'm not necessarily convinced it would destroy the nation. It would hurt though. However, were we to do that, we should do it with the intent of getting rid of the damn debt, not keep spending like we are.

There'd be riots in the streets. If you believe that this is doable then you have been brainwashed that you need to work for the machine.

First of all, it's certainly "do-able". That doesn't mean it's the right thing to do or that we need to do it, but it's certainly "do-able". To recognize that has nothing at all to do with brainwashing, but rather it has to do with simply looking at the situation as it stands.

Sometimes I wonder if English is your first language.

[kentington]

I guess that to see the real person to blame for the spending one would need only look in the mirror.....

You can't say that. I look in the mirror and see someone who votes opposing the government solving all of my problems.
It just seems like the government as a whole, has no interest in actually improving America.

[patches70]

I guess that to see the real person to blame for the spending one would need only look in the mirror.....

You can't say that. I look in the mirror and see someone who votes opposing the government solving all of my problems.
It just seems like the government as a whole, has no interest in actually improving America.

It was a metaphor but since you insist, government spending out of control is because of all of us. Each and every one of us. I'm sure there are things you are quite in favor of government spending money on.
Maybe foreign aid? Hell who would be opposed to sending food and medicine to poor people around the world. But it's a cost. It contributes to the spending.
Surely you are for our nation having the most powerful military in the world aren't you? I mean, who wants to worry about being bombed by a foreign power. That's spending. That contributes to out of control government spending.
Surely you are for defending our allies? Membership in NATO? The wars in Afghanistan? The war on terror? All spending. All out of control.
Surely you are for interstate highways, what does it matter if some of the tax dollars you pay are spent on highway projects in places you'll never go.
Surely you are for education. Even if you don't have children or send your children to private school or home school. More spending.
Surely you are for health care. Everyone gets sick and it's nice to have government assistance with such costs.
Surely you are for taking care of our elderly, after all if all goes well you'll live to a ripe old age and need hip replacements, medication and piss bags. All costs.

We (as a nation) want what we want and those costs add up. Sure for one individual it's ok to cut this or that but there are other individuals who will raise bloody hell at such cuts.

The current monetary system we have empowers massive spending, debt and the ability to kick the principle down the line easily. This makes for massive over consumption. The over consumption in this case being government spending. We can have our cake and eat it to. But only for a time. That time is fast approaching where the bill can't be passed down to the next generation.
At that point all the things you think are wasteful spending will come to a halt. But as well so will all the things you think are well and good spending. It's all a house of cards and every individual in the nation has placed his or her own card in the house.

An the government having no interest in improving America? In your view I suppose you can say that but tell that to the senator who is voting to spend to help poor families. Does he think he is "hurting America" or in his view he is trying to help America?
It's all subjective, the only real thing that can be quantified is the money. We can see how much we are spending.

Now, who do you say should bite the bullet and get cut from the teet of the government and do you think those people will just take it lying down?

The truth is people do things in self interest and tell themselves they are trying to help. Their heart is in the right place it's just that their grasp of economic reality isn't all there. We all suffer from the same plight of point of view. It all depends on what point of view you look at things.

And that is why we are all responsible. That is why when it finally falls to shit we'll all be in an equally bad way. And that is why all of us can look at ourselves in the mirror.
It doesn't make anyone a bad person necessarily, it only makes us human. We are all in the same boat and that boat is leaking badly. Some of us have nicer staterooms, some are stowed away in the bowels of the ship. But when that ship sinks it doesn't matter cause we'll all be treading water at that point.

[BigBallinStalin]

I'm not responsible for this!

[patches70]

LOL Obama was in Milwaukee today and he said this-

No American company should be able to avoid paying its fair share of taxes by moving jobs and profits overseas. From now on, every multinational company should have to pay a basic minimum tax. And every penny should go towards lowering taxes for companies that choose to stay and hire in the United States of America.”

Yep, other nations have to tax business at a set rate and portions of that tax are to go to the US. LMAO. That's what Obama thinks of other nation's sovereignty. Ya ain't got none!
We in the US are tapped out and to make up the difference it looks like some people are ready to start pilfering other nations. Of course I don't ever see this flying very far. Just rhetoric I'd hope.

[kentington]

I guess that to see the real person to blame for the spending one would need only look in the mirror.....

You can't say that. I look in the mirror and see someone who votes opposing the government solving all of my problems.
It just seems like the government as a whole, has no interest in actually improving America.

It was a metaphor but since you insist, government spending out of control is because of all of us. Each and every one of us. I'm sure there are things you are quite in favor of government spending money on.
Maybe foreign aid? Hell who would be opposed to sending food and medicine to poor people around the world. But it's a cost. It contributes to the spending.
Surely you are for our nation having the most powerful military in the world aren't you? I mean, who wants to worry about being bombed by a foreign power. That's spending. That contributes to out of control government spending.
Surely you are for defending our allies? Membership in NATO? The wars in Afghanistan? The war on terror? All spending. All out of control.
Surely you are for interstate highways, what does it matter if some of the tax dollars you pay are spent on highway projects in places you'll never go.
Surely you are for education. Even if you don't have children or send your children to private school or home school. More spending.
Surely you are for health care. Everyone gets sick and it's nice to have government assistance with such costs.
Surely you are for taking care of our elderly, after all if all goes well you'll live to a ripe old age and need hip replacements, medication and piss bags. All costs.

We (as a nation) want what we want and those costs add up. Sure for one individual it's ok to cut this or that but there are other individuals who will raise bloody hell at such cuts.

The current monetary system we have empowers massive spending, debt and the ability to kick the principle down the line easily. This makes for massive over consumption. The over consumption in this case being government spending. We can have our cake and eat it to. But only for a time. That time is fast approaching where the bill can't be passed down to the next generation.
At that point all the things you think are wasteful spending will come to a halt. But as well so will all the things you think are well and good spending. It's all a house of cards and every individual in the nation has placed his or her own card in the house.

An the government having no interest in improving America? In your view I suppose you can say that but tell that to the senator who is voting to spend to help poor families. Does he think he is "hurting America" or in his view he is trying to help America?
It's all subjective, the only real thing that can be quantified is the money. We can see how much we are spending.

Now, who do you say should bite the bullet and get cut from the teet of the government and do you think those people will just take it lying down?

The truth is people do things in self interest and tell themselves they are trying to help. Their heart is in the right place it's just that their grasp of economic reality isn't all there. We all suffer from the same plight of point of view. It all depends on what point of view you look at things.

And that is why we are all responsible. That is why when it finally falls to shit we'll all be in an equally bad way. And that is why all of us can look at ourselves in the mirror.
It doesn't make anyone a bad person necessarily, it only makes us human. We are all in the same boat and that boat is leaking badly. Some of us have nicer staterooms, some are stowed away in the bowels of the ship. But when that ship sinks it doesn't matter cause we'll all be treading water at that point.

Actually, if we are going to spend money and all that, then it should be on our country first. Foreign aid is a nice gesture, but again don't spend money you don't have. Military is the one point I give you on spending. Healthcare, I don't think the government should provide. You assume I want a lot and the truth is you can't blame me for all that crap. I didn't vote for it and I wouldn't.

[Woodruff]

LOL Obama was in Milwaukee today and he said this-

No American company should be able to avoid paying its fair share of taxes by moving jobs and profits overseas. From now on, every multinational company should have to pay a basic minimum tax. And every penny should go towards lowering taxes for companies that choose to stay and hire in the United States of America.”

Yep, other nations have to tax business at a set rate and portions of that tax are to go to the US. LMAO. That's what Obama thinks of other nation's sovereignty. Ya ain't got none!
We in the US are tapped out and to make up the difference it looks like some people are ready to start pilfering other nations. Of course I don't ever see this flying very far. Just rhetoric I'd hope.

It's a dumb idea. You guys whine about the flight of millionairres if the tax rate goes up...that's unlikely. But this...this would just drive businesses to leave entirely, so that they're no longer an "American company" because they'd essentially be getting double-taxed.

[patches70]

LOL Obama was in Milwaukee today and he said this-

No American company should be able to avoid paying its fair share of taxes by moving jobs and profits overseas. From now on, every multinational company should have to pay a basic minimum tax. And every penny should go towards lowering taxes for companies that choose to stay and hire in the United States of America.”

Yep, other nations have to tax business at a set rate and portions of that tax are to go to the US. LMAO. That's what Obama thinks of other nation's sovereignty. Ya ain't got none!
We in the US are tapped out and to make up the difference it looks like some people are ready to start pilfering other nations. Of course I don't ever see this flying very far. Just rhetoric I'd hope.

It's a dumb idea. You guys whine about the flight of millionairres if the tax rate goes up...that's unlikely. But this...this would just drive businesses to leave entirely, so that they're no longer an "American company" because they'd essentially be getting double-taxed.

Umm, you understand that I'm completely against this latest Obama proposal, right? What's this "you guys" stuff?

Obama's latest idea is stupid beyond measure. That's the thinking of these people, that government has the right to tax and do what they want and things like sovereignty mean nothing. The height of arrogance in this POTUS to even suggest that the US can dictate to other nations tax rates.
Why should taxes be raised on anything when our own government spends like crazy nuts? It's like giving crackheads more crack. To truly help the crackhead you cut his ass off from the stuff. Tax business till the cows come home, they just pass it on to the consumer. Tax the millionaires to high heaven, they have the means to just leave. Meanwhile everyone else is stuck and continually bent over the desk and cornholed for the sake of rhetoric and promises never meant to be fulfilled while everyone argues about a "R" or a "D" behind the freaking politicians who have almost all turned into Statists and Tranzis. We keep arguing among ourselves and keeps anyone from taking a cold hard look at the bastards who are herding us all (and the unborn generations) into debt slavery.

Actually, if we are going to spend money and all that, then it should be on our country first. Foreign aid is a nice gesture, but again don't spend money you don't have. Military is the one point I give you on spending. Healthcare, I don't think the government should provide. You assume I want a lot and the truth is you can't blame me for all that crap. I didn't vote for it and I wouldn't.

I assume nothing. You are a citizen and you have your own thoughts on what government should and shouldn't be spending public money on. Whatever those things may be. You would want A,C and D things paid for but not B,E and F. Your neighbor might think B,E and F are good for spending on but not A,C and D. The government faced with this problem says "you can both have it all, we'll just fund A,B,C,D,E and F!"

The thing about government spending is that the government produces nothing. The money they spend is taken from the wallets of the citizen. It is a form of coercion and the things they spend on even if you disagree, you are paying for it regardless. Government spending should be at the barest minimum. What is that minimum? Everyone has their own thoughts on that. Even you. Therefore, each and everyone of us is a cog in the spending machine. There is no denying that, though everyone will.

We are all the problem. That's one reason these things can't be resolved because everyone says-

I'm not responsible for this!

and "It's not my fault!"

It is our fault, we all contribute in some fashion. Congress is just the facilitator. I'm was just saying that I can't lay all the blame solely on Congress, plenty of the blame goes to all the citizens of the US as well. Even me, even you.

Not to mention that no one ever demands the end to The Fed which is the true source of the money=debt system. Most people don't even have a clue as to how unjust the whole system is. In our ignorance is sown our misfortune.

[BigBallinStalin]

I don't vote.

All I can do is write.

I wouldn't recommend more violent means.

How am I responsible for something which is beyond my power to control?

[Woodruff]

LOL Obama was in Milwaukee today and he said this-

No American company should be able to avoid paying its fair share of taxes by moving jobs and profits overseas. From now on, every multinational company should have to pay a basic minimum tax. And every penny should go towards lowering taxes for companies that choose to stay and hire in the United States of America.”

Yep, other nations have to tax business at a set rate and portions of that tax are to go to the US. LMAO. That's what Obama thinks of other nation's sovereignty. Ya ain't got none!
We in the US are tapped out and to make up the difference it looks like some people are ready to start pilfering other nations. Of course I don't ever see this flying very far. Just rhetoric I'd hope.

It's a dumb idea. You guys whine about the flight of millionairres if the tax rate goes up...that's unlikely. But this...this would just drive businesses to leave entirely, so that they're no longer an "American company" because they'd essentially be getting double-taxed.

Umm, you understand that I'm completely against this latest Obama proposal, right? What's this "you guys" stuff?

I seem to distinctly remember you supporting the claim of the "flight of the millionairres" if taxes are raised on the rich. Am I misremembering?

[patches70]

LOL Obama was in Milwaukee today and he said this-

No American company should be able to avoid paying its fair share of taxes by moving jobs and profits overseas. From now on, every multinational company should have to pay a basic minimum tax. And every penny should go towards lowering taxes for companies that choose to stay and hire in the United States of America.”

Yep, other nations have to tax business at a set rate and portions of that tax are to go to the US. LMAO. That's what Obama thinks of other nation's sovereignty. Ya ain't got none!
We in the US are tapped out and to make up the difference it looks like some people are ready to start pilfering other nations. Of course I don't ever see this flying very far. Just rhetoric I'd hope.

It's a dumb idea. You guys whine about the flight of millionairres if the tax rate goes up...that's unlikely. But this...this would just drive businesses to leave entirely, so that they're no longer an "American company" because they'd essentially be getting double-taxed.

Umm, you understand that I'm completely against this latest Obama proposal, right? What's this "you guys" stuff?

I seem to distinctly remember you supporting the claim of the "flight of the millionairres" if taxes are raised on the rich. Am I misremembering?

Supporting? Because I merely state that if rich people feel the tax burden is too great they'll leave? How is that supporting? Those millionaires have the means to go where ever they want. They don't have to stay in the US. I'm just stating a reality.

I support everyone keeping as much of their own money as possible and am against an out of control government spending all our money and borrowing untold trillions in our name. Trillions that not just millionaires but regular ol'e people and our children are on the hook for.

That's all.

[spurgistan]

Supporting? Because I merely state that if rich people feel the tax burden is too great they'll leave? How is that supporting? Those millionaires have the means to go where ever they want. They don't have to stay in the US. I'm just stating a reality.

That's all.

Well, why didn't rich people leave when we had a more progressive tax regime (basically any time in the last 100 years?) If you're a rich person who stuck around in the '60's and 70's, and paid taxes at rates that would make Kucinich blush, you're not going to leave because we raise the top tax bracket to 39.6%. Maybe they stayed because they actually like the stuff we have here that you can't really get in other places. The stuff conservatives (and liberals, but who's counting) say they love, until we threaten to increase marginal tax rates. Maybe.

tl;dr: I find great fault with your "flight of the millionaires" theory seeing as it has never actually happened.

[patches70]

Supporting? Because I merely state that if rich people feel the tax burden is too great they'll leave? How is that supporting? Those millionaires have the means to go where ever they want. They don't have to stay in the US. I'm just stating a reality.

That's all.

tl;dr: I find great fault with your "flight of the millionaires" theory seeing as it has never actually happened.

What the hell? Do people get jobs from poor people or do they get them from rich people?

Manufacturing is gone in the US. Left long ago for greener and cheaper pastures. Did you not see the quotes and plans of the POTUS I posted ITT? Instead of lower the US's already highest in the world corporate tax rate he wants to raise those taxes in every other nation in the world!

Companies incorporate in other countries all the time. Tycho international incorporated in Bermuda and pay a lower tax rate than any US incorporated competitors. And they are not the only one. GE, Google and many other multinational corporations park their money offshore. GE so much so that they paid zero taxes (legally).

There are also tax expatriates. Each year a few more leave. The number is small in terms of individuals but they take with them billions. It was so bad that during Clinton's presidency a certain law was passed to discourage expatriation to avoid taxes. If one is worth more that $622,000 and expatriates, it is assumed automatically that the person is attempting to avoid taxes, by law*.

It's not just the US, it is happening in Briton as well. They pay a hell of a higher tax rate than in the US.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk

In the US a Time magazine story about Americans expatriating-

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/ ... 38,00.html

In the fourth quarter alone of 2009 more people relinquished their American citizenship than in all of 2008.

Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it isn't happening.


*Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act- passed in 1996

[Woodruff]

It's a dumb idea. You guys whine about the flight of millionairres if the tax rate goes up...that's unlikely. But this...this would just drive businesses to leave entirely, so that they're no longer an "American company" because they'd essentially be getting double-taxed.

Umm, you understand that I'm completely against this latest Obama proposal, right? What's this "you guys" stuff?

I seem to distinctly remember you supporting the claim of the "flight of the millionairres" if taxes are raised on the rich. Am I misremembering?

Supporting? Because I merely state that if rich people feel the tax burden is too great they'll leave? How is that supporting?

How is that NOT "supporting the claim" (which was my precise statement). Geez...read, folks!

[Woodruff]

Supporting? Because I merely state that if rich people feel the tax burden is too great they'll leave? How is that supporting? Those millionaires have the means to go where ever they want. They don't have to stay in the US. I'm just stating a reality.

That's all.

tl;dr: I find great fault with your "flight of the millionaires" theory seeing as it has never actually happened.

What the hell? Do people get jobs from poor people or do they get them from rich people?

Neither. People get jobs because there is a demand for something, pure and simple. If there is a demand for something, then a job WILL be created for it. It has nothing to do with rich people or poor people. Here's a good article on the supposed tax problems of the rich and how it is affecting businesses:
http://crooksandliars.com/jon-perr/boehner-peddles-republican-job-creators-myth

[patches70]

you're not going to leave because we raise the top tax bracket to 39.6%.

And you are taking out of context of the discussion that the tax bracket would be raised to 92% (along with increases to 25% and 66% for lower and middle incomes respectively). I maintain that people wouldn't stand for that for a minute. Others claim that people would just suck it up and take it. Rich people wouldn't take it, they'd just leave because they have the means to leave. Everyone else either has to let the government take more and more of their money or take to the streets. Like in Greece.

[patches70]

Supporting? Because I merely state that if rich people feel the tax burden is too great they'll leave? How is that supporting? Those millionaires have the means to go where ever they want. They don't have to stay in the US. I'm just stating a reality.

That's all.

tl;dr: I find great fault with your "flight of the millionaires" theory seeing as it has never actually happened.

What the hell? Do people get jobs from poor people or do they get them from rich people?

Neither. People get jobs because there is a demand for something, pure and simple. If there is a demand for something, then a job WILL be created for it. It has nothing to do with rich people or poor people. Here's a good article on the supposed tax problems of the rich and how it is affecting businesses:
http://crooksandliars.com/jon-perr/boehner-peddles-republican-job-creators-myth

That pitiful amount of tax increase makes no difference at all. There would still be massive debt because of government spending. That's what this whole thread is about. Who is responsible for all the deficit spending. We can't tax our way out and anyone who thinks that is sick in the head.
We can't grow our way out either. GDP is growing at a pitiful rate. Increase taxes and see if that makes it any better. It won't.

The only way to get our fiscal house in order is to cut spending. One doesn't get out of debt by spending more.
At the current level of government spending our interest payment alone in as soon as possibly 2016 will be $4 trillion a year, more than the current budget.

Can't you all see how this is going to grow exponentially? The more debt we pile on the quicker we become truly insolvent? Imagine trying to have a budget of around $4trillion and have the interest payments on our existing debt equal to the god damn budget itself. How can that go on? How can we tax or grow our way out of that?

It's not possible. This argument about this party or that party makes not a bit of difference. Both parties suck and are spending our nation into the poor house. Only a partisan hack won't admit that.

[Woodruff]

Supporting? Because I merely state that if rich people feel the tax burden is too great they'll leave? How is that supporting? Those millionaires have the means to go where ever they want. They don't have to stay in the US. I'm just stating a reality.

That's all.

tl;dr: I find great fault with your "flight of the millionaires" theory seeing as it has never actually happened.

What the hell? Do people get jobs from poor people or do they get them from rich people?

Neither. People get jobs because there is a demand for something, pure and simple. If there is a demand for something, then a job WILL be created for it. It has nothing to do with rich people or poor people. Here's a good article on the supposed tax problems of the rich and how it is affecting businesses:
http://crooksandliars.com/jon-perr/boehner-peddles-republican-job-creators-myth

That pitiful amount of tax increase makes no difference at all. There would still be massive debt because of government spending. That's what this whole thread is about. Who is responsible for all the deficit spending. We can't tax our way out and anyone who thinks that is sick in the head.
We can't grow our way out either. GDP is growing at a pitiful rate. Increase taxes and see if that makes it any better. It won't.

The only way to get our fiscal house in order is to cut spending. One doesn't get out of debt by spending more.
At the current level of government spending our interest payment alone in as soon as possibly 2016 will be $4 trillion a year, more than the current budget.

Can't you all see how this is going to grow exponentially? The more debt we pile on the quicker we become truly insolvent? Imagine trying to have a budget of around $4trillion and have the interest payments on our existing debt equal to the god damn budget itself. How can that go on? How can we tax or grow our way out of that?

It's not possible. This argument about this party or that party makes not a bit of difference. Both parties suck and are spending our nation into the poor house. Only a partisan hack won't admit that.

I'm not sure where any of this disagrees at all with any of the points I made.

[patches70]

This is the truth or much closer to it at least.